2017 & 2018 Rebuild (Years 1 & 2)

[Scott Pennock]

Chris Ballard and company have two drafts (of the 3 year build) under thier belts with another 8 picks of thier own plus 1-2 compensatory picks next year to finish off the core rebuild. 

 

Using an analytics tool like RAS = Relative Athletic Scoring to grade each draft pick. RAS is a comparative tool to show how our player compares to his peers athletically at the same position.

 

So far, it looks like he's added to each position group at every level of the offence and defense - and he has added high character, productive leaders (team captains) with above average physical traits. What that means is - they are all coachable, have the potential to improve physically as well as thier football IQ!

 

2017 

1 - Malik Hooker - Injured so did no testing, safe to say he would have a RAS of 9+

2 - Quincy Wilson - 6.22 

3 - Tarell Basham - 7.71

4 - Zach Banner - 0.87 (Good recommendation Philbin - lol)

4 - Marlon Mack - 8.21

4 - Grover Stewart - 7.49

5 - Nate Hairston - 3.71 (Way overproduced his rating - good coaching? Luck? Hungry player)

5 - Anthony Walker - 5.58

UDFA 

Kenny Moore - 6.95

Darrell Daniels - 6.97

Krishawn Hogan - 9.18

Sanchez - if they did one for punters he would be an 8+

 

2018

1 - Quenton Nelson - 9.67

2 - Darius Leonard - 5.36 (incomplete due to not completing all of the drills)

2 - Braden Smith - 9.71

2 - Kemoko Turay - 9.32

2 - Tyquan Lewis - 9.53

4 - Nyheim Hines - 6.43

5 - Daurice Fountain - 7.98

5 - Jordan Wilkins - 7.75

6 - Deon Cain - 6.51

7 - Matthew Adams - 7.17

7 - Zaire Franklin - 9.64

UDFA (with a legit chance)

Skai Moore - 5.87 (Incomplete due to not completing all of the drills)

Steve Ishmael - 6.86

Tomasi Laulile - 5.57

Robert Jackson - 8.80 (WOW!) - DJ White and Chris Milton better come to work this TC

 

So lets check the scores:

9+ = 7

8+ = 3

7+ = 5

6+ = 6

5+ = 4 (5 is league average ability)

<5 = 2 (Banner cut in TC; Hairston played better than his 3.71 score for sure)

 

Of the potential 27 rookies CB has added 2 are/were below average, 4 are league average, 11 are above average and 10 are potential pro bowl types according to the analytics.

 

After looking at the data I'm not sure why people are so skeptical of his results? I mean he and Rex Hogan helped build a "team" that allowed Rex Grossman to lead them to the Superbowl....and Dodds helped build a "team" that allowed Russell Wilson to do the same......neither are on the level of Peyton then or Luck now.

 

Have a little faith...

 

Thank you to @stitches for turning me on to this info! I'm a huge believer of analytics in baseball and I think football could use a bit of it to narrow the margin between boom and bust!

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Chris Ballard and company have two drafts (of the 3 year build) under thier belts with another 8 picks of thier own plus 1-2 compensatory picks next year to finish off the core rebuild. 

 

So far, it looks like he's added to each position group at every level of the offence and defense - and he has added high character, productive leaders (team captains) with above average physical traits. What that means is - they are all coachable, have the potential to improve physically as well as thier football IQ!

 

2017 

1 - Malik Hooker - Injured so did no testing, safe to say he would have a RAS of 9+

2 - Quincy Wilson - 6.22 

3 - Tarell Basham - 7.71

4 - Zach Banner - 0.87 (Good recommendation Philbin - lol)

4 - Marlon Mack - 8.21

4 - Grover Stewart - 7.49

5 - Nate Hairston - 3.71 (Way overproduced his rating - good coaching? Luck? Hungry player)

5 - Anthony Walker - 5.58

UDFA 

Kenny Moore - 6.95

Darrell Daniels - 6.97

Krishawn Hogan - 9.18

Sanchez - if they did one for punters he would be an 8+

 

2018

1 - Quenton Nelson - 9.67

2 - Darius Leonard - 5.36 (incomplete due to not completing all of the drills)

2 - Braden Smith - 9.71

2 - Kemoko Turay - 9.32

2 - Tyquan Lewis - 9.53

4 - Nyheim Hines - 5.68

5 - Daurice Fountain - 7.98

5 - Jordan Wilkins - 7.75

6 - Deon Cain - 6.51

7 - Matthew Adams - 7.17

7 - Zaire Franklin - 9.64

UDFA (with a legit chance)

Skai Moore - 5.87 (Incomplete due to not completing all of the drills)

Steve Ishmael - 6.86

Tomasi Laulile - 5.57

Robert Jackson - 8.80 (WOW!) - DJ White and Chris Milton better come to work this TC

 

So lets check the scores:

9+ = 7

8+ = 3

7+ = 5

6+ = 5

5+ = 5 (5 is league average ability)

<5 = 2 (Banner cut in TC; Hairston played better than his 3.71 score for sure)

 

Of the potential 27 rookies CB has added 2 are/were below average, 5 are league average, 10 are above average and 10 are potential pro bowl types according to the analytics.

 

After looking at the data I'm not sure why people are so skeptical of his results? I mean he and Rex Hogan helped build a "team" that allowed Rex Grossman to lead them to the Superbowl....and Dodds helped build a "team" that allowed Russell Wilson to do the same......neither are on the level of Peyton then or Luck now.

 

Have a little faith...

 

Forgive me....

 

I probably should know this...   but I don't...    what does RAS mean?   It appears to quantify athletic testing...

 

As for Ballard...

 

Now that I know what he's doing, I'm totally on board...   

 

11 draft picks this year...   10 picks next year.    21 in two years.   It normally takes three years to have 21 picks.  Ballard will have done it in two.  

 

The man has a plan, he knows what he's doing.

 

[Scott Pennock]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Forgive me....

 

I probably should know this...   but I don't...    what does RAS mean?   It appears to quantify athletic testing...

 

As for Ballard...

 

Now that I know what he's doing, I'm totally on board...   

 

11 draft picks this year...   10 picks next year.    21 in two years.   It normally takes three years to have 21 picks.  Ballard has done it in two.  

 

The man has a plan, he knows what he's doing.

 

RAS = Relative Athletic Scoring. It's a comparative tool to show how our player compares to his peers athletically. 

 

So the intangibles are what can't be scored and that is where CB delves into production on the field, personality ( aka "do they love football"), are they leaders (team captains), if they've made mistakes in the past, have they attoned for them, etc., etc.

 

For example, they showed interest in Antonio Callaway (WR - FL), Desmond Harrison (OT - West GA) and Holtin Hill (CB - TX) even though they had off the field issues in the past and all 3 popped hot on the drug test at the combine - which is a CLEAR indication they've not learned their lessons. Needless to say we went in other directions.

 

They drafted Cain so they must feel that whatever his off field issues were that they are, in fact, in the rear view mirror!

[Albaby]

Pretty cool

[ColtsBlitz]

Okay, I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but an athlete is not a football player. There are millions of athletes in the world. There are very few professional football players comparatively.

 

I do like the fact that Ballard is going after athletic leaders though, it is a sign that that’s what he wants here and we need leaders among this young group of men that form the Indianapolis Colts

[AZColt11]

How does Nyhiem Hines only get in the 5's?  Did he not complete the testing?  He was fastest among the RB's and is a home-run threat.

[Nesjan3]

thats a lot of analytics, ill wait and see how they perform on the field.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

How does Nyhiem Hines only get in the 5's?  Did he not complete the testing?  He was fastest among the RB's and is a home-run threat.

low height/weight, very bad bench press and below average 3cone and short shuttle. 

[ColtStrong2013]

8 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Okay, I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but an athlete is not a football player. There are millions of athletes in the world. There are very few professional football players comparatively.

 

I do like the fact that Ballard is going after athletic leaders though, it is a sign that that’s what he wants here and we need leaders among this young group of men that form the Indianapolis Colts

You can take an athlete and make them one... you can't vice versa, and in today's professional football, if you aren't an athlete you might as well go home as they are going to pick you apart. Defensively especially. Mismatch every single play, regardless of position.

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

You can take an athlete and make them one... you can't vice versa, and in today's professional football, if you aren't an athlete you might as well go home as they are going to pick you apart. Defensively especially. Mismatch every single play, regardless of position.

This is also on the extreme end of suggesting that all of the picks aren't football plauers. They very much are and a few of them are top notch all Americans. You can hone in on skills that are absent or lacking if the athleticism is there. 

[Scott Pennock]

22 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

How does Nyhiem Hines only get in the 5's?  Did he not complete the testing?  He was fastest among the RB's and is a home-run threat.

I corrected it, he is now a 6.43. However, he gets dinged for his height and weight. He didn't do the bench either - which could have hurt or helped him more...

[Scott Pennock]

23 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Okay, I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but an athlete is not a football player. There are millions of athletes in the world. There are very few professional football players comparatively.

 

I do like the fact that Ballard is going after athletic leaders though, it is a sign that that’s what he wants here and we need leaders among this young group of men that form the Indianapolis Colts

I agree.....that is why it looks like the emphasis AFTER the analytics is identifying leaders and producers with high character.

 

The two exceptions thus far seems to be Banner (which was highly pushed by our former OL Coach) who tested horribly and practiced just as bad. The other is Cain, which I'm sure they did thier homework on.....or so we'd like to think.

 

Philbin is now the OC in Green Bay.....Banner is with the Panthers......perhaps it was a waiver claim or Philbin realized his mistake!??!

 

 

[Scott Pennock]

22 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

thats a lot of analytics, ill wait and see how they perform on the field.

The GM's that use analytics in Baseball are closing the gaps between boom and bust players......

 

If our GM can use some analytics to close that gap in football scouting then I'm all for it. 

 

However, I do agree, I want to see it on the field!

[Boiler_Colt]

23 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Okay, I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but an athlete is not a football player. There are millions of athletes in the world. There are very few professional football players comparatively.

 

I do like the fact that Ballard is going after athletic leaders though, it is a sign that that’s what he wants here and we need leaders among this young group of men that form the Indianapolis Colts

Rick Venturi was on the radio and stated that as a coach youd much rather have the elite athlete and try to coach them up than a low ceiling player. Do we have the coaches to do so, that remains unseen.

[P'Son]

21 hours ago, stitches said:

low height/weight, very bad bench press and below average 3cone and short shuttle. 

 

Putting it another way,he's only a punt/kick returner, not a running back.

[aaron11]

hairstone seemed ok when he played near the line of scrimmage and he wasnt even tested deep very often.  he did get beat pretty badly when teams did force him to play down the field. 

 

i think he looked like a 5th round rookie that played a lot because we didnt have much else at the position, the ras seemed about right to me

[superrep1967]

On 5/6/2018 at 4:37 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Forgive me....

 

I probably should know this...   but I don't...    what does RAS mean?   It appears to quantify athletic testing...

 

As for Ballard...

 

Now that I know what he's doing, I'm totally on board...   

 

11 draft picks this year...   10 picks next year.    21 in two years.   It normally takes three years to have 21 picks.  Ballard will have done it in two.  

 

The man has a plan, he knows what he's doing.

 

Yes, he does and I wish more people on here would understand that. 

[crazycolt1]

It would not surprise me at all if 9 of the 11 players drafted make this team.

Add the fact the lack of talent this team had it could be all 11.

If 9 players do make this team that is unheard of in todays NFL.

[shasta519]

Just to add some perspective. Ballard's 2017 class ranked #21 in average RAS...probably dragged down a bit by Banner. But Grigs' 2016 class ranked #10, so the Colts definitely have some athletes on the roster.

 

I assume this class will rank much higher than last year. Here are some other notable players:

 

Lorenzo Carter - 10

Leighton Vander Esch - 9.97

Equanimeous St. brown - 9.84

Courtland Sutton - 9.81

Malik Jefferson - 9.77

Tremaine Edmunds - 9.74

Fred Warner - 9.67

Harold Landry - 9.46

Derwin James - 9.34

Joshua Jackson - 9.27

Connor Williams - 9.15

Isaiah Oliver - 8.73

 

[Hoose]

Well, there is no question you build a team through the draft. You add FAs where appropriate, and perhaps for the key missing ingredient when you've built the team into a contender.  Ballard is on the right track with his drafting; what will be interesting is how he spends the significant cap space he's going to have next year. The team will have improved, no doubt, but likely not to contender status yet. I suspect if he dives into FA for anything significant, it will be for a top CB or WR. Watch for a pass rusher and OT high in next year's draft. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 5/6/2018 at 8:37 PM, ColtsBlitz said:

Okay, I’m not trying to be pessimistic, but an athlete is not a football player. There are millions of athletes in the world. There are very few professional football players comparatively.

 

I do like the fact that Ballard is going after athletic leaders though, it is a sign that that’s what he wants here and we need leaders among this young group of men that form the Indianapolis Colts

 

A lot of these guys were team captains and/or All-Americans in college though. It's not just a random group of dudes with fast 40 times, these guys are football players.

[Luck 4 president]

Drafting based off RAS is like drafting based off 40 times. Now if there are two players similar in performance and football IQ, then go with the better athlete otherwise we will end up with a bunch of TJ Greens

[Steamboat_Shaun]

19 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

Drafting based off RAS is like drafting based off 40 times. Now if there are two players similar in performance and football IQ, then go with the better athlete otherwise we will end up with a bunch of TJ Greens

 

Leveraging RAS data and applying it to make high-ceiling, athletic draft selections is not the same as drafting TJ Green just because he's fast.

[Flash7]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what TJ Green's RAS score was?

 

Never mind - Google is my friend.

 

 

2018 RAS 9.02   

2016 RAS 8.91

[Luck 4 president]

32 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Leveraging RAS data and applying it to make high-ceiling, athletic draft selections is not the same as drafting TJ Green just because he's fast.

TJ Green wasn’t just fast. He was big, good vert, and tested well with everything. Basically just a good RAS athlete and not a good football player. I’m not saying we shouldn’t draft good athletes I’m saying we should look at other things first and RAS second unlike Grigson

[lollygagger8]

[funktacious2]

This reminded me of Krishawn Hogan. I hope he comes back from that ACL and makes an impact.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

TJ Green wasn’t just fast. He was big, good vert, and tested well with everything. Basically just a good RAS athlete and not a good football player. I’m not saying we shouldn’t draft good athletes I’m saying we should look at other things first and RAS second unlike Grigson

 

What players did Ballard draft this year that make you think he's solely looking at RAS? Most of them were either All-Americans, or team captains, or both, so it seems to me that was his primary focus was leadership/talent, then once he applied the RAS stuff he was able to narrow down his list to guys that fit what we're doing. Obviously I'm speculating, but that's the impression I get.

[Luck 4 president]

25 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

What players did Ballard draft this year that make you think he's solely looking at RAS? Most of them were either All-Americans, or team captains, or both, so it seems to me that was his primary focus was leadership/talent, then once he applied the RAS stuff he was able to narrow down his list to guys that fit what we're doing. Obviously I'm speculating, but that's the impression I get.

Where did I say Ballard drafted solely based off RAS scores? 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, Luck 4 president said:

Where did I say Ballard drafted solely based off RAS scores? 

 

When I read this comment, it sounded to me like that's what you were implying...

 

"Drafting based off RAS is like drafting based off 40 times. Now if there are two players similar in performance and football IQ, then go with the better athlete otherwise we will end up with a bunch of TJ Greens"

 

After re-reading, I realize that's not the case.

[ColtsBlitz]

21 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

A lot of these guys were team captains and/or All-Americans in college though. It's not just a random group of dudes with fast 40 times, these guys are football players.

I kinda came at it narrow minded on the fact this is based on how athletic the players we drafted are. Ballard found leaders and yes, football players. I’m actually really excited about this draft class, but I try to withhold it in order to reduce disappointment should they not work out. The fact that they are athletic sets them up better for success, so cherrio!