New philosophy on WRs?

[Defjamz26]

Something that I noticed during the draft is that the Colts both the receivers the Colts drafted were 6’1”. This comes after Ballard pursued Alshon Jeffrey last season and reports that he might have wanted a big body receiver on the outside. But when I look at the Ebron signing, I wonder if that means the Colts will use their TEs as red zone receivers and just look to have speed at the WR position. I think this means that they’ll account for most of the chunk plays while the TEs work the middle of the field and red zone. 

[Valpo2004]

Well I think we're looking for a #2 man to compliment TY.  To be a good compliment I would say we want a bigger bodied WR.  

 

TY's great between the 20's but he's not a very good red zone threat because of his small size.  Most of his TD's come on long pass plays.  

[NextGenerationLuck]

I honestly think we found our big guy on the outside. Deon Cain was an absolute steal in the 6th round, he’s listed at 6’2 202lbs and runs a 4.43, the only knock against him I can think of is his hand size but after watching his highlights he attack’s the ball in the air and I love it. Him and Andrew can be really special this year 

[ColtsBlitz]

TY is a good #1 receiver, but I feel like he’s a better fit in the slot. He can obviously go head to head against any corner on the outside, but some big targets out wide will help the offense. 

 

The bodies just just add to what we can do which is what we need

[TheMarine]

Some examples of what you could see this year

 

[throwing BBZ]

It was fascinating watching the Eagles passing attack their last 2 games.
The way they quickly flooded zones with their route combinations.
WR's that can actually run routes and make quick cuts, and help blocking in the running game are a Premium.
Ballard WILL find this type.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

It was fascinating watching the Eagles passing attack their last 2 games.
The way they quickly flooded zones with their route combinations.
WR's that can actually run routes and make quick cuts, and help blocking in the running game are a Premium.
Ballard WILL find this type.

 

Great observation. "Flooding zones" was the perfect word. Recognizing zones, flooding it, and the QB pulling the trigger all requires a lot more work than how easy the Eagles made it look like. 

 

Running out of 3 WR formations is what they managed to accomplish vs the Pats since the Pats employed nickel most of the time and had 3 safeties on the field most of the time. For that to be done, the 3 WRs on the field should block effectively, no ifs and buts about it. 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlitz said:

TY is a good #1 receiver, but I feel like he’s a better fit in the slot. He can obviously go head to head against any corner on the outside, but some big targets out wide will help the offense. 

 

The bodies just just add to what we can do which is what we need

That’s what I thought too, but the Rams got away with it. They had Robert Woods and Cooper Cupp who are both 6’0”. And they traded for Cooks. Watkins is a bigger receiver but he only had 500 yards for them. I would say that speed and route running take more priority over size. 

 

I’m starting to wonder if having an athletic TE is more important. Ebron could really break out here.

[Smonroe]

We've never had much luck with bigger WRs in the recent years.  Crief was supposed to be that guy, Colby too in a way.

 

It's not fair to say it's about size.  It's about talent.  You could find plenty of guys who are the same size as Julio or Megatron.  Very few have their talent.

[ColtsBlitz]

57 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s what I thought too, but the Rams got away with it. They had Robert Woods and Cooper Cupp who are both 6’0”. And they traded for Cooks. Watkins is a bigger receiver but he only had 500 yards for them. I would say that speed and route running take more priority over size. 

 

I’m starting to wonder if having an athletic TE is more important. Ebron could really break out here.

Given the success tight ends have seen here and Ebron is by far the most athletic, I agree 100%. Doyle and him are perfect complements to each other’s game. 

[ColtsBlitz]

1 hour ago, TheMarine said:

Some examples of what you could see this year

 

But better.... because Luck is the only QB drafted since 2012 to receive an elite QB rating. It may take a few games, but if his shoulder repaired correctly, he will be taking us to the playoffs again for the first time since 2014. 

[Four2itus]

2 hours ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

I honestly think we found our big guy on the outside. Deon Cain was an absolute steal in the 6th round, he’s listed at 6’2 202lbs and runs a 4.43, the only knock against him I can think of is his hand size but after watching his highlights he attack’s the ball in the air and I love it. Him and Andrew can be really special this year 

I too think Cain will be the surprise of the later rounds. 

[IndyScribe]

Colts needed big bodied receivers after Moncrief left. Both Fountain and Cain fit that mold.

2 hours ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

I honestly think we found our big guy on the outside. Deon Cain was an absolute steal in the 6th round, he’s listed at 6’2 202lbs and runs a 4.43, the only knock against him I can think of is his hand size but after watching his highlights he attack’s the ball in the air and I love it. Him and Andrew can be really special this year 

If he can keep his head straight, he'll be great for sure. I think both Fountain and Cain have the potential to do well.

[lollygagger8]

Teach them the ways Reggie-Wan-Kenobi! 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Something that I noticed during the draft is that the Colts both the receivers the Colts drafted were 6’1”. This comes after Ballard pursued Alshon Jeffrey last season and reports that he might have wanted a big body receiver on the outside. But when I look at the Ebron signing, I wonder if that means the Colts will use their TEs as red zone receivers and just look to have speed at the WR position. I think this means that they’ll account for most of the chunk plays while the TEs work the middle of the field and red zone. 

 

Hilton is now the only WR on the roster under 6'0".

[Scott Pennock]

Between Cain at 6'2" and 202, Fountain at 6'1" and 210 (that can jump out of the gym) and the UDFA kid Steve Ishmael at 6'2" and 209 plus Ryan Grant at 6'0" and 204 & Chester Rogers at 6'1" and 185 the WR Room will look completely different to T.Y........lol

 

 

[NorthernColt]

I like the picks. We don't need to spend high picks on receivers. We have the kind of quarterback that has the ability to make average talent look much better. He has the ability to pin point a deep ball in a window where only a receiver can get it, specially athletic freaks who are 6'2. Should be nice targets for Luck. I can see Cain have a really good rookie year.

[Deadpool]

3 hours ago, TheMarine said:

Some examples of what you could see this year

 

from what I heard, Reich didn't call the plays for the eagles, it was the head coach. If that is true, then watching the eagles offense is pointless IMO. It's nothing against Reich, but he didn't call the plays, so the offensive success in terms of play calling came from Pederson . But I will say this, I sure hope Reich calls plays the same way, hoping Pederson used his method lol. 

[Deadpool]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Between Cain at 6'2" and 202, Fountain at 6'1" and 210 (that can jump out of the gym) and the UDFA kid Steve Ishmael at 6'2" and 209 plus Ryan Grant at 6'0" and 204 & Chester Rogers at 6'1" and 185 the WR Room will look completely different to T.Y........lol

 

 

Ishmael did break Marvin Harrison's Syracuse Record for career receiving yards. he also has a brother who plays for Atlanta as a DB. Here is to hoping he is just as good as Harrison if not better. Ryan Grant will be used more in the slot, kinda like the redskins used him in. 

[krunk]

19 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

from what I heard, Reich didn't call the plays for the eagles, it was the head coach. If that is true, then watching the eagles offense is pointless IMO. It's nothing against Reich, but he didn't call the plays, so the offensive success in terms of play calling came from Pederson . But I will say this, I sure hope Reich calls plays the same way, hoping Pederson used his method lol. 

I dont think it's pointless because the play design came from Reich.   We watch the videos to see how the plays are structured.   We know the play calling itself will vary person to person.  We have no idea how Sirriani will do things, or Reich whoever calls the plays between them.

[TheMarine]

20 minutes ago, Deadpool said:

from what I heard, Reich didn't call the plays for the eagles, it was the head coach. If that is true, then watching the eagles offense is pointless IMO. It's nothing against Reich, but he didn't call the plays, so the offensive success in terms of play calling came from Pederson . But I will say this, I sure hope Reich calls plays the same way, hoping Pederson used his method lol. 

 

Pederson called the plays, but it was Reich who was called to design the offense and its plays and the scheme of attack. The call flow will certainly be different, but the overall play design will be identical: Minimum 3 levels of attack while passing, and rush plays which mirror the pass attack. Think of the Manning "Stretch" days

[krunk]

I'm trying to figure out how Steve Ishmael went undrafted.   Just watched a couple clips and he was making multiple plays over Derwin James and Florida State along with others.  Looks like we pulled 3 good Wrs out of this thing.

[Scott Pennock]

37 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'm trying to figure out how Steve Ishmael went undrafted.   Just watched a couple clips and he was making multiple plays over Derwin James and Florida State along with others.  Looks like we pulled 3 good Wrs out of this thing.

Derwin....McFadden....Averette.....the kid from LSU....the kid from BC.....all but McFadden were drafted this year andcwere considered talented.

 

I'm with you and I see one of Grant or Rogers losing thier spot in favor of this rookie class!

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Derwin....McFadden....Averette.....the kid from LSU....the kid from BC.....all but McFadden were drafted this year andcwere considered talented.

 

I'm with you and I see one of Grant or Rogers losing thier spot in favor of this rookie class!

Don't know if necessary.  We can carry 6 receivers probably.

[Scott Pennock]

True statement @krunk......with Himes as the swiss Army knife to handle the return game we could.....?

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Between Cain at 6'2" and 202, Fountain at 6'1" and 210 (that can jump out of the gym) and the UDFA kid Steve Ishmael at 6'2" and 209 plus Ryan Grant at 6'0" and 204 & Chester Rogers at 6'1" and 185 the WR Room will look completely different to T.Y........lol

 

 

Yeah I think we have good size but I was referring too the fact that we don't have a 6'4"+ receiver like Jeffrey, Evans, Jones, Benjamin, etc.. That seems to be the new rage in the NFL and Ballard went after Jeffrey who's 6'4". Personally I think 6'1" is plenty big for a WR. You don't need 6'4" receivers IMO. That's what TE's are for. Unless you find a Calvin Johnson where they're tall but also can run in the 4.4's. Hilton is undersized for a receiver at 5'9". But it seems like the staff prefers to have 6'0"-6'1" receivers with speed rather than super tall guys who tower over corners. I like this approach personally. Give me speed and route running over guys who just run fly routes and catch jump balls.

[krunk]

I want to see what we can do with Swoope and Ebron  on the field at the same time. There's some mismatches to be had with that.

[OLD FAN MAN]

7 hours ago, Smonroe said:

We've never had much luck with bigger WRs in the recent years.  Crief was supposed to be that guy, Colby too in a way.

 

It's not fair to say it's about size.  It's about talent.  You could find plenty of guys who are the same size as Julio or Megatron.  Very few have their talent.

i concur

[Defjamz26]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

I want to see what we can do with Swoope and Ebron  on the field at the same time. There's some mismatches to be had with that.

Same. I hope they use the TE's to create mismatches. In the middle of the field.

 

7 hours ago, Smonroe said:

We've never had much luck with bigger WRs in the recent years.  Crief was supposed to be that guy, Colby too in a way.

 

It's not fair to say it's about size.  It's about talent.  You could find plenty of guys who are the same size as Julio or Megatron.  Very few have their talent.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The best WR in the league is 5'11'. Let your TE's be your tall receivers.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah I think we have good size but I was referring too the fact that we don't have a 6'4"+ receiver like Jeffrey, Evans, Jones, Benjamin, etc.. That seems to be the new rage in the NFL and Ballard went after Jeffrey who's 6'4". Personally I think 6'1" is plenty big for a WR. You don't need 6'4" receivers IMO. That's what TE's are for. Unless you find a Calvin Johnson where they're tall but also can run in the 4.4's. Hilton is undersized for a receiver at 5'9". But it seems like the staff prefers to have 6'0"-6'1" receivers with speed rather than super tall guys who tower over corners. I like this approach personally. Give me speed and route running over guys who just run fly routes and catch jump balls.

 

I think it's way too soon to determine whether there's a new philosophy in place with the Colts.

 

It's one draft.    Two players.     To say that the sample size is small is an understatement.

 

The strength of the draft was tall WR's...   6'0" and taller...    and when R4 came around,  I did a quick,  but not thorough check and found at least a dozen names that fit the description...      Ballard might have liked a taller receiver in the earlier rounds if this was his 3rd or 4th draft...    but his priority was OL and DL,  so he passed on a number of WR's that he might've liked to pick,  but passed on...

 

He knew there would be tall receivers in the mid and late rounds.    He didn't have to worry that they'd be gone.

 

Ballard threw a few curve balls...    he passed on a corner,  after drafting Wilson 42nd overall the previous year.

 

He passed on a RB with size in favor of a RB with speed in R4.     I don't think these are trends,  just decisions that are made that are unique to this year,  and this year only.      I'm expecting a CB high up next year,  and perhaps a RB with size as well...

 

A very interesting draft...    But I don't think there's enough info to know if there's a new philosophy in place....

 

[jet1968]

I just hop they can catch the ball and not drop it

[krunk]

4 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

True statement @krunk......with Himes as the swiss Army knife to handle the return game we could.....?

Really impressed by Ismael. I think he will make it. I just can't find the reason he went undrafted. Only thing I can say is maybe hes not the fastest. Hands and body control are excellent. The guy makes tons of plays.

[Scott Pennock]

58 minutes ago, krunk said:

Really impressed by Ismael. I think he will make it. I just can't find the reason he went undrafted. Only thing I can say is maybe hes not the fastest. Hands and body control are excellent. The guy makes tons of plays.

4.5ish on his 40 times, so not pond water slow.....he makes up for it with his other attributes.

 

I have checked out the highlights of all the reserve/future WRs and none of them look better than the 2 draftees and Ishmael.....

 

 

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

11 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Well I think we're looking for a #2 man to compliment TY.  To be a good compliment I would say we want a bigger bodied WR.  

 

TY's great between the 20's but he's not a very good red zone threat because of his small size.  Most of his TD's come on long pass plays.  

Cain is listed at 6 foot 2.

[Defjamz26]

47 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Cain is listed at 6 foot 2.

I’ve seen 6’1” on some sites. I don’t think it’s that big of a difference though. Point is, he’s got enough size and is more equipped to play on thR outside and be a red zone threat. I’m excited to have him.

[Alex22]

9 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Hilton is now the only WR on the roster under 6'0".

 

I could see Ballard possibly trading TY...

 

I don't want that... but there were rumours last year and when there are rumours something generally happens...

 

Not sure 

[chad72]

Think Nelson Agholor, he is close to the body type of Reggie Wayne in his prime though he seems faster but without the route running skills of Reggie. Big enough to run block and fast enough to separate, that is probably what they might be trying to optimize in a WR.

 

Frank Reich values route running and flooding the zones, whether it is with his TE or RB or WR, and whoever is open gets the ball. I am thinking Sirianni will have the same philosophy too. If they man up, that is where our swiss army knife becomes valuable in Hines, plus the speed of TY and the size of Cain. I hope Hines at least becomes like James White or Kevin Faulk, not everyone can be a Darren Sproles.

 

Right now, our slot guys are Doyle and Hines, I am thinking and the slot WR position might be wide open in competition, hope Ishmael is as good as you guys are saying. Rogers might be pegged there as well. We just don't have a guy like Zach Ertz to stretch the seams. Erik Swoope better get healthy fast.

 

Fountain and Cain seem like Z wide outs. 

[Defjamz26]

7 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

I could see Ballard possibly trading TY...

 

I don't want that... but there were rumours last year and when there are rumours something generally happens...

 

Not sure 

Nah Hilton is what he wants. He didn’t draft him but he’s talked about the value of raising your own. Hilton has been a Colt his whole career. He’s a lockeroom leader. Not to mention he’s on pace to break several Colts receiving records. I don’t think he’ll ever trade him. 

[Alex22]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Nah Hilton is what he wants. He didn’t draft him but he’s talked about the value of raising your own. Hilton has been a Colt his whole career. He’s a lockeroom leader. Not to mention he’s on pace to break several Colts receiving records. I don’t think he’ll ever trade him. 

 

That's true, but seeing him last year turn into a diva around the trade deadline was a weird sign. 

 

Hope he stays though and another receiver steps and takes some pressure of TY, he could explode in this offense. 

[Alex22]

4 hours ago, chad72 said:

Think Nelson Agholor, he is close to the body type of Reggie Wayne in his prime though he seems faster but without the route running skills of Reggie. Big enough to run block and fast enough to separate, that is probably what they might be trying to optimize in a WR.

 

Frank Reich values route running and flooding the zones, whether it is with his TE or RB or WR, and whoever is open gets the ball. I am thinking Sirianni will have the same philosophy too. If they man up, that is where our swiss army knife becomes valuable in Hines, plus the speed of TY and the size of Cain. I hope Hines at least becomes like James White or Kevin Faulk, not everyone can be a Darren Sproles.

 

Right now, our slot guys are Doyle and Hines, I am thinking and the slot WR position might be wide open in competition, hope Ishmael is as good as you guys are saying. Rogers might be pegged there as well. We just don't have a guy like Zach Ertz to stretch the seams. Erik Swoope better get healthy fast.

 

Fountain and Cain seem like Z wide outs. 

 

Ebron is probably more athletic than Ertz and has the speed to go deep down field. So hoping he can do good things with Luck