Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Ballard's Draft Brilliance


w87r

Recommended Posts

Just now, bananabucket said:

Again, no one is arguing the positions. It's the players that are uninspiring.

Uninspiring why? Because you wanted/ thought someone else was better? 

 

How anyone can be upset about a GM telling you what his plan is, then executing HIS plan, is beyond me? 

 

The guy put in the work to figure out who his guys were. He obviously had all his picks rated higher than, the guys some others wanted.

 

Like has been said, that happens every year. Just have to set back and let it play out. 

 

If we come out of this draft with 6 or 7 contributors, it will he a major success. I definitely see that as a possibility.

 

1. Nelson

2. Leonard

3. Smith

4. Turay/or Lewis(maybe both?)

5. Hines

6. Cain/ or Fountain

7. Adams or Franklin

 

The odds were increased by Ballard's draft strategy. Whether you like the players now or not. Time will tell, as it is now, odds are increased on our side.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Just like the “Ballard Haters” can’t objectively say this draft sucked, the “Ballard Disciples” can’t say this was a brilliant draft.

 

In either case, you have to wait and see, but that’s no fun, especially on a fan forum.

 

So, we all need to decide if we want to openly discuss our point of views without being called out as a hater is or as a blind follower. We all should understand that we’re just discussing a sport, a game, and just giving our opinions, (as qualified Or unqualified as they may be).

 

There’s plenty of things of merit and interest to discuss without making grand proclamations.-Plenty.

 

Hot takes are easy and are often devoid of intelligence, research or evidence.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

So, we all need to decide if we want to openly discuss our point of views without being called out as a hater is or as a blind follower. 

True. However, we may have different descriptions of what openly discussing points of view means.

 

"This draft choice sucks", is not openly discussing points of view, it is being a hater. Why? Because it is openly rating something that is unrateable. "I think this draft choice will turn out to be a failure", however, has a different feel. No?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Just like the “Ballard Haters” can’t objectively say this draft sucked, the “Ballard Disciples” can’t say this was a brilliant draft.

 

In either case, you have to wait and see, but that’s no fun, especially on a fan forum.

 

So, we all need to decide if we want to openly discuss our point of views without being called out as a hater is or as a blind follower. We all should understand that we’re just discussing a sport, a game, and just giving our opinions, (as qualified Or unqualified as they may be).

I agree that you cant say the players are going to pan out at the moment.

 

My argument is the strategy he uses in the draft. The players are all undetermined. 

 

But moving out of #3 when he did - Brilliant

Selecting 11 guys at 5 positions at need to increase the odds of hitting on a player at said position - Brilliant

 

Players are just names till they prove their worth.

 

I like our chances with how this draft played out.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

Again, no one is arguing the positions. It's the players that are uninspiring.

 Ballard is a genius according to Irsay, so I guess it takes another genius to understand his draft. Don’t feel bad. I’m only a two-dimensional chess player, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

There’s plenty of things of merit and interest to discuss without making grand proclamations.-Plenty.

 

Hot takes are easy and are often devoid of intelligence, research or evidence.

 

 

Agreed - not a fan of grand proclamations -- on either side. So when someone proclaims that this draft sucks, well their take sucks. Ditto when someone says its a brilliant draft. Can't tell either way right now.

3 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

True. However, we may have different descriptions of what openly discussing points of view means.

 

"This draft choice sucks", is not openly discussing points of view, it is being a hater. Why? Because it is openly rating something that is unrateable. "I think this draft choice will turn out to be a failure", however, has a different feel. No?

Agreed. I think a good claim should have proper support to allow for good discussion and I think this too goes both ways for the pros and cons of the choices made in this draft.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

I agree that you cant say the players are going to pan out at the moment.

 

My argument is the strategy he uses in the draft. The players are all undetermined. 

 

But moving out of #3 when he did - Brilliant

Selecting 11 guys at 5 positions at need to increase the odds of hitting on a player at said position - Brilliant

 

Players are just names till they prove their worth.

 

I like our chances with how this draft played out.

 

 

 

More so than doubling up on position groups , it’s Ballard’s philosophy towards team building that I’m totally on board with.

 

We’re finally attempting to build the way I think a team should be built. 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

I agree that you cant say the players are going to pan out at the moment.

 

My argument is the strategy he uses in the draft. The players are all undetermined. 

 

But moving out of #3 when he did - Brilliant

Selecting 11 guys at 5 positions at need to increase the odds of hitting on a player at said position - Brilliant

 

Players are just names till they prove their worth.

 

I like our chances with how this draft played out.

 

 

IMO, and I could be wrong - but we held the #3 pick. Other teams reached out to Ballard and presented their offer to move up to the #3 spot. Ballard selected the best offer. Not much brilliance required - this type of thing happens every year, and there was much discussion in this forum of similar and various trade back scenarios. It's par for the course when you have a top 5 or top 10 draft position. It also just so happened that in this draft, 5 QBs were selected in the 1st round, so there were many teams willing to move up to get their QB, thus the good trade back by Ballard.

 

I would posit that the trade back was reactionary -- other teams reached out to Ballard with their offers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

Again, no one is arguing the positions. It's the players that are uninspiring.

 

Inspire us with who we should have taken.  

 

I really have have a problem with people saying a pick stinks, or it’s a reach.  None of these guys have played a down yet.  So they’re basing their opinion of value on what?  

 

Not taking this out on you Bucket...well, maybe I am...but just because you’re handy.  But I mean this in general.   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

IMO, and I could be wrong - but we held the #3 pick. Other teams reached out to Ballard and presented their offer to move up to the #3 spot. Ballard selected the best offer. Not much brilliance required - this type of thing happens every year, and there was much discussion in this forum of similar and various trade back scenarios. It's par for the course when you have a top 5 or top 10 draft position. It also just so happened that in this draft, 5 QBs were selected in the 1st round, so there were many teams willing to move up to get their QB, thus the good trade back by Ballard.

 

I would posit that the trade back was reactionary -- other teams reached out to Ballard with their offers.

It's about the timing of the move. 

 

Based on the value we received in March against the trade value in the other (2) trade up for QB's(top 10). Different levels.

 

#3

#6, #37, #49, 2019 2nd

 

Against

 

#7

#12, #53,#55

 

#10

#15, 3rd, 5th

 

Timing of trade was the brilliant part.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

IMO, and I could be wrong - but we held the #3 pick. Other teams reached out to Ballard and presented their offer to move up to the #3 spot. Ballard selected the best offer. Not much brilliance required - this type of thing happens every year, and there was much discussion in this forum of similar and various trade back scenarios. It's par for the course when you have a top 5 or top 10 draft position. It also just so happened that in this draft, 5 QBs were selected in the 1st round, so there were many teams willing to move up to get their QB, thus the good trade back by Ballard.

 

I would posit that the trade back was reactionary -- other teams reached out to Ballard with their offers.

 

He made that trade at an unprecedented time period before the draft , though.

 

He could’ve waited , or kept the pick , but he gave himself weeks to prepare and still came away with one of the top 3 non QB’s in the draft. That was a wise move.

 

It worked out well for the Jets too, as I think Cleveland took the wrong QB (as does most of the league) and the Giants should’ve traded out (running back isn’t worth turning down massive trade packages)

 

So whilst we can’t say if the selections themselves were wrong , we can analyze the process and decision making at the time. Process over result. Ballard made the right call , and I believe, Cleveland and the Giants made mistakes in asset management.

 

This is where he showed his value in comparison to rival GM’s.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

It's about the timing of the move. 

 

Based on the value we received in March against the trade value in the other (2) trade up for QB's(top 10). Different levels.

 

#3

2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

He made that trade at an unprecedented time period before the draft , though.

 

He could’ve waited , or kept the pick , but he gave himself weeks to prepare and still came away with one of the top 3 non QB’s in the draft. That was a wise move.

 

It worked out well for the Jets too, as I think Cleveland took the wrong QB (as does most of the league) and the Giants should’ve traded out (running back isn’t worth turning down massive trade packages)

 

So whilst we can’t say if the selections themselves were wrong , we can analyze the process and decision making at the time. Process over result. Ballard made the right call , and I believe, Cleveland and the Giants made mistakes in asset management.

 

 

#6, #37, #49, 2019 2nd

 

Against

 

#7

#12, #53,#55

 

#10

#15, 3rd, 5th

 

Timing of trade was the brilliant part.

 

I understand the timing is the main differentiator, but it was made possible by other teams making the offer in a draft where 5 QBs were selected in the first round. I do give him credit, please don't think I don't. I just don't think it's a "brilliant" move as much as it's a "good" move made by a person that's good at wading through their options. It doesn't take brilliance to wade through your options and make a good decisions when you have offers presented to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

Again, no one is arguing the positions. It's the players that are uninspiring.

I thought the players were all excellent athletes and have great potential. The RBs are the only double up I questioned, but I like Wilkins a lot. He makes people miss and does it with ease. I understand your skepticism because they aren’t players you’ve heard of, but let’s watch them play and I feel you may change your mind. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won't grade the draft but I will say I do like what Ballard did. He maneuvered picks and came away with 11 players. He has been set on building through the draft. He wanted to build up both OL and DL. He got young competition at LB, WR and RB. Now comes UDFA signings. Obviously we have to see how it turns out, but I like the approach and like the direction we are headed towards rebuilding this team that was in such disarray.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I understand the timing is the main differentiator, but it was made possible by other teams making the offer in a draft where 5 QBs were selected in the first round. I do give him credit, please don't think I don't. I just don't think it's a "brilliant" move as much as it's a "good" move made by a person that's good at wading through their options. It doesn't take brilliance to wade through your options and make a good decisions when you have offers presented to you.

 

I didn’t call it “brilliant” , but it was wise and at the very least smart. He made a calculated gamble (one that hadn’t been made before) and it worked out both in player selection (top 3 player) and asset acquisition.

 

To assume offers like these haven’t been made to other GM’s in previous years would be foolish. Most GM’s don’t pull ballsy moves like that , they wait until the last minute for “better deals” which often don’t materialize, and if they do, they aren’t nearly as adequately prepared as Ballard was making the trade weeks in advance.

 

So perhaps he wasn’t curing cancer, but he outsmarted at least 2 other GM’s in the top 6, imo. If that’s not a positive or beneficial, then I’m not sure what is.

 

This is where teams gain an advantage in a socialist league Smarter management than others.

 

Ballard did well in the process. The result is yet to be determined.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I understand the timing is the main differentiator, but it was made possible by other teams making the offer in a draft where 5 QBs were selected in the first round. I do give him credit, please don't think I don't. I just don't think it's a "brilliant" move as much as it's a "good" move made by a person that's good at wading through their options. It doesn't take brilliance to wade through your options and make a good decisions when you have offers presented to you.

You mention decision making. I have stated since his hiring, we need better decision makers and I think that's what Ballard is good at.  Not perfect but good. Common sense will take us forward and I believe he is the guy who can do it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LockeDown said:

You mention decision making. I have stated since his hiring, we need better decision makers and I think that's what Ballard is good at.  Not perfect but good. Common sense will take us forward and I believe he is the guy who can do it. 

I totally agree that we need better decision makers.

 

As for Ballard, I have credited him with good decision making in some aspects and have criticized him in others. But of course, the criticism is just my opinion. I look forward to this season and hope that Luck is back and we kick butt behind Ballard's team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO the draft went very well. Ballard touched on positions of need and took high character team oriented guys.

It seems a few of them were captains on their ball teams so that meant a lot to Ballard.

Only time will tell how this draft works out but if 6 or 7 of these guys make the roster it would be considered a success.

I know these tapes I watched were highlight reels but it's hard not to see some serious talent in these guys.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, w87r said:

I think Chris Ballard had a great draft:

1. He does look like a genius for trading down to #6, in March when he did. The offers coming over in draft day were not very good. I was hoping to trade back again from #6, but Nelson is a stud and after seeing what Buffalo gave up to move to #7, was less than impressive. I would not of been happy with that haul in a trade down.

 

2. We came in to the draft with some major needs:

G (Nelson, Smith)

DL (Turay, Lewis)

LB (Leonard, Adams, Franklin)

WR (Fountain, Cain)

RB (Hines, Wilkins)

CB (still need, but looking to see UDFA pickups)

 

So what does Ballard do? He adds multiple guys at all those need positions.

Creates competition while adding depth and increasing the odds of hitting on a position of need. Added 11 guys to 5 need positions.

 

3. He added so much speed and athleticism to the team. This team is going to fly around the field.

 

 

Everyone will eat crow when we go 11-5 and win the division .... calling it now

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

I didn’t call it  (1) “brilliant” , but it was wise and at the very least smart. He made a calculated gamble (one that hadn’t been made before) and it worked out both in player selection (top 3 player) and asset acquisition.

 

(2) To assume offers like these haven’t been made to other GM’s in previous years would be foolish. Most GM’s don’t pull ballsy moves like that , they wait until the last minute for “better deals” which often don’t materialize, and if they do, they aren’t nearly as adequately prepared as Ballard was making the trade weeks in advance.

 

So perhaps he wasn’t curing cancer (3), but he outsmarted at least 2 other GM’s in the top 6, imo. If that’s not a positive or beneficial, then I’m not sure what is.

 

This is where teams gain an advantage in a socialist league Smarter management than others.

 

Ballard did well in the process. The result is yet to be determined.

(1) The brilliant part of this convo mainly has to do with the thread title -- not saying that you called Ballard's moves brilliant. Just for clarification.

 

(2) I am not assuming that offers like these haven't been made to other GMs, in fact I stated something to the effect of "these scenarios occur often" but I do contend that the pot was sweetened in this particular draft due to the QB situation, making it much more likely for someone to accept an early offer. Either way, I think it was a good decision, but if you look at it from the Jets perspective, essentially, they were the ones to make this happen. Further, we'll never know what offer could have been presented had he waited.

 

(3) It's up to you if you want to, but I would like to request some clarity on item #3. If you don't feel it's worth the discussion, no worries. At the moment, I don't see how he outsmarted at least 2 other GMs in the top 6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TdungyW/12 said:

Everyone will eat crow when we go 11-5 and win the division .... calling it now

 

If this was the AFC South of 3 years ago , then sure, but there’s too many variables right now.

 

I need to see a lot of things before I make any predictions like that.

 

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think people who don't like the picks are doing so based on our picks mock draft ratings. Most of these ratings are done by guys like Mel Kiper Jr who have as much experience as a post man without season tickets. I'm not saying that they're good picks because nobody knows yet, even some first round picks will go bust.

 

What I like about Ballard is he knows exactly what he wants. The difference between Ballard and Grigson is Ballard is unpredictable for the right reasons and Grigson was unpredictable for the wrong reasons.

 

His drafting strategy reminded me a lot of Belichick's strategy. Drafting not the best players on paper but the highly athletically raw players who have a never say die mentality. These players can be developed into top talent.

 

Also most draft picks past the 2nd have roughly a 25% chance of succeeding so the fact that we have 6 picks past the second means that we could have 1-2 players succeeding on top of the 5 picks at the start of the draft.

 

I might be overly optimistic with this but we shall see and a healthy Luck will almost guarantee a winning season.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

It's up to you if you want to, but I would like to request some clarity on item #3. If you don't feel it's worth the discussion, no worries. At the moment, I don't see how he outsmarted at least 2 other GMs in the top 6

 

Well, like I said, it’s about process , positional value, maximizing assets and , of course choosing the right player. The top 6 was almost a separate draft in itself this year.

 

Give this a listen  http://podbay.fm/show/1109282822/e/1524807368?autostart=1

 

Lombardi essentially says what I’m saying , but he obviously has legitimate contacts and experience within the league.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm happy with the draft but I also agree that time will truly tell whether it was good, great, or bad. The only way I thought it could've been better is if the board fell a different way, and that's something I can't hold against Ballard, just the nature of the draft.

 

In the end I'm happy with upgrading the offensive line, and hopefully upgrading the defensive line (I like Lewis but Turay is the guy who I just have no idea how he'll turn out). I really like Darius Leonard, a lot more than most probably. And I'm pretty excited about the offensive skill position guys we added. Can't wait to see what Reich/Sirianni conjure up there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other 2 moves that add to things is:

 

1. Trading down from #140. We selected (2) WR's with the trade down picks. Increasing the odds of hitting.

 

With pick #140 we selected Fountain and Cain essentially. 

 

2. Trading Anderson(guy that didn't fit, in now a position of depth) for extra pick, which added to LB(thinnest position) chances. 

 

Ballard is really smart and I'm glad he's on our side. Made all the right moves. Right players? We'll see, but he made all the right moves this draft.

 

UDFA is looking pretty promising as well.

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Let me guess, you'd never heard of them before so they suck

 

That's the benefit of not knowing any of them.  I get to sit back and wait 3 or 4 years before I decide how the draft went.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Polian drafted for Dungy's system, people wondered "who the heck are Kelvin Hayden, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea etc." but then, when they continued to make plays, people saw the light.

 

Ballard is drafting for Eberflus' system and we have to see how that 4-3 plays out on the field. I will hold my judgement with these players till I see that on the field. 

 

Let us not forget cuts made after pre-season etc. when players can still be added. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

 

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, chad72 said:

When Polian drafted for Dungy's system, people wondered "who the heck are Kelvin Hayden, Robert Mathis, Antoine Bethea etc." but then, when they continued to make plays, people saw the light.

 

Ballard is drafting for Eberflus' system and we have to see how that 4-3 plays out on the field. I will hold my judgement with these players till I see that on the field. 

 

Let us not forget cuts made after pre-season etc. when players can still be added. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

 

 

There's going to be cuts even before that we can take advantage of to strengthen the corner position. And we've still got a bunch of money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, krunk said:

There's going to be cuts even before that we can take advantage of to strengthen the corner position. And we've still got a bunch of money.

Chris B put a lot of work in at Corner last year. We drafted Q and Hairston brought in Desir Moore and the 2 KC guys Aker and White and DJ's college teammate is still here Milton. Aker at 26 is the oldest Ballard may feel like we have good young CB's to develop.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Rick Venturi today on the radio said he is more of a fan of speed with corners then what Ballard has done. He said young corners have to be able to recover from mistakes. I would almost like rodgers instead of Brent’s.
    • BBZ, what do you mean when you say Brents will be successfully targeted because of his size and speed? Aren't those his good traits? 
    • Right. But we also are expected to draft a corner, So the fact that DeJean can play either position, makes me think Ballard could have his eye on him.
    • As a Ballard type player, he seems to fit the bill.  Big 10. Excels at zone coverage. Elite athlete. Special Teams standout, Good tackler. etc. Colts may be able to trade back, and still land DeJean   Considered one of the Safest picks. Seven 2024 NFL Draft Prospects Who Are Safest Bets to Succeed at Next Level https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10113875-7-2024-nfl-draft-prospects-who-are-safest-bets-to-succeed-at-next-level   DB Cooper DeJean, Iowa   A fractured fibula during a November practice tempered any excitement regarding Cooper DeJean's draft status. So he's not been in the same conversations as the class' top defensive backs, specifically Toledo's Quinyon Mitchell and Alabama's Terrion Arnold. DeJean's profile projects just as well or better than the aforementioned cornerbacks.   Three specific attributes set DeJean's floor higher than anyone else among the back end.   First, the reigning Big Ten Defensive Back of the Year presents the positional flexibility and traits to start at cornerback or safety at the professional level, with B/R's Cory Giddings highlighting his coverage skills:   "DeJean excels in zone coverage, but he's versatile enough to play man as well. He shows a smooth backpedal and the ability to keep his leverage and quick footwork with few wasted steps. Although he transitions well, there are times where DeJean hops into his breaks; allowing a step of separation.   "When in zone, DeJean does a great job of reading and reacting to the quarterback's eyes. Pairing that skill set with his route recognition, he often puts himself in good position with leverage and positioning.   "While working downfield, DeJean has the strength necessary to hand-fight with tight ends and bigger receivers, as well as the speed necessary to carry twitchier receivers downfield. He also does a very good job of locating the ball and playing through the catch point."   Second, the high school track standout is an elite athlete who captured Iowa state titles in the long jump and 100-meter dash. Many expected him to blow the doors off Lucas Oil Stadium. Unfortunately, he wasn't ready to test in Indianapolis after being cleared a few weeks earlier.   "His acceleration is incredibly fluid and super powerful," NFL combine trainer Jordan Luallen told The Athletic's Bruce Feldman last summer. "He's the best athlete I've seen in person, pound for pound."   Finally, DeJean adds significant value as an elite collegiate returner. Big Ten coaches also awarded him Return Specialist of the Year this past season. DeJean averaged 13.1 yards per punt return over the last two seasons. A top-notch contributor anywhere along the defensive backfield and on special teams will provide excellent value in the NFL.   Potential Landing Spots: Indianapolis Colts, Philadelphia Eagles    
    • He could, but I think he's way more athletic than people give him credit for and projects way better as CB. Definitely could be a good safety, but I think if we drafted him, he fits well as a boundary corner for us.
  • Members

    • harrisoncolts88

      harrisoncolts88 113

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • JackWV

      JackWV 37

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • IndyD4U

      IndyD4U 1,422

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Dobbinblitz

      Dobbinblitz 1,170

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ColtV

      ColtV 665

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • John Hammonds

      John Hammonds 4,746

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Colts.sb41

      Colts.sb41 256

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • pkbrux

      pkbrux 100

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • MFT5

      MFT5 323

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • midmoColtsfan

      midmoColtsfan 0

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...