Simple question. How do you not take Courtland Sutton?

[Fisticuffs111]

I think we might target Daurice Fountain today, we brought him in for a top 30 visit.

[jameszeigler834]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Simple answer....

 

He's not as good as you think he is.   This  was an historically bad WR class and he's not more important than the defense or the OL...

 

He doesn't have first round talent... 

 

And it's widely reported that rookie WRs don't make much of an impact in the modern NFL.   So if you spend a high pick on one, you're likely not going to get much return on your investment...

 

Some mocks had him falling to the third round what does that tell you.

[Narcosys]

7 hours ago, MFT5 said:

 

idc that we didn’t draft him but if yu think he’s a body catcher yu dnt know who sutton is 

Ya, that kid had some AMAZING catches.

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

The Colts have too many holes to fill in one draft.  

 

Had they drafted a WR people would be upset about not getting a linebacker, pass rushing help, or protecting Andrew Luck.

 

Ballard has made it known this isn’t going to be an overnight rebuild.  He’s getting the front in place because it doesn’t matter how many skill guys you have if you can’t get to the other teams QB and can’t stop other teams from getting to yours.  

Exactly my point. He addressed what was considered the 3 biggest needs on this team and people are still upset.

 

When Luck was on the shelf but we thought he’d play, people said don’t play him if the line’s not fixed. Well the Colts just got two starting guards

 

Our LB core was horrible, headlined by an unathletic, 2-down Morrison. We got a 3 down LB who excels in coverage

 

People screamed about the need for pass rush even if we didn’t get Chubb, and we drafted 2 DEs.

 

What’s the issue? Ballard didn’t draft everyone’s favorite guy?

[Alex22]

7 hours ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

I used Sutton who I think is going to be a pro bowler. Point is every one on here knows we needed a #2 WR out of this draft. We didn't get it. We need a 2nd starting CB

 in A draft full of them and we took zero. But we took DE's like they were going out of style. That fixes guys running uncovered down the field in what way?

 

Just like moncrief was going to be a pro bowler..........

our line is good now 

[CardiacColts]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

I think the Colts are interested in Dez Bryant. The way Ballard talked about made me think so.

After investing heavily in our trenches, and the sizable cap space we have remaining, I wouldn’t mind bringing in Dez and CJ!

[BlueShoe]

8 hours ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

 

Chris Ballard dreamed of having an offensive line and defensive line draft. This draft strengths is in the trenches and Ballard attacked it. He got the guys he targeted and wanted all along. 

[King Colt]

Yes the Colts are hurting at WR but the numbers on pass rushing and sacks and linebackers dictate an equal need for improvement. Hilton and Ryan Grant stand alone while Chester Rogers has shown spurts he most likely will not develop in to what was hoped from him. So let's see what Ballard does but he has so many holes to fill it is going to take more than a year to fix the Colts. Face it, the Colts are a mess and many call their roster the worst in the NFL. I never dreamed I would her that but it appears to be the general consensus among sports writers. .

[ColtStrong2013]

8 hours ago, Trueman said:

You can manufacture good receiver production by intelligent schemes and play-calling.

 

Just like you can manufacture elite rushing production with a good OL and multiple backs.

 

You cannot manufacture elite line play. 

 

 

AMEN. This is gold. Frank Reich in he and Ballard's press conference that very few on here watched talked about the wide receivers quite a bit. He was impressed with the group in mini-camp. They strongly feel that a strong O-line and a healthy Andrew Luck can make any receiver who can create space, understand the offense and most importantly catch the football, look Great. Peyton Manning did it for years. Tom Brady has won several superbowls with it. Explosive receivers that are smart, and can catch the football. 

Elite offensive lineman are hard to come by. They are getting more and more expensive. And they are being retained by their franchises... just as Nelson and Smith will be life-long Colts, IMO. 

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

Because he's a big tall WR that we don't need.  We need the shifty slot guy with YAC. 

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think you haven't taken the time to listen to Ballard yet.   Because if you had you'd know the answers to your own question.

 

1.  Ballard believes in winning with the O-line and D-line.   

 

2.   He believes in pass rush...   lots and lots of pass rush.   It's not enough to have one good one.   Or a pair...   he wants 7-8 quality pass rushers..   waves of them so everyone is fresh.

 

3.  I'm sorry I was off on the year of Beckham draft.   But it doesn't matter.  Because there is still only one first round WR to turn into anything.  The NFL has figured out that colleges are not preparing WRs for the NFL.   So why spend a high pick on a troubled position?   You can probably get a guy almost as good, maybe better using a mid-round pick..

 

And that's what I think happens tomorrow.  We use a 4 or a 5 on a WR...

 

We also need a corner with the other pick.

 

 

I disagree about WRs. If anything, OL players are the ones not being prepared for the NFL because of the spread offenses and RPOs. 

 

 

[Smoke317]

We should take Deon Cain

[Stephen]

12 hours ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

We got good wrs in camp

[Finball]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...   Grant for one...   remember, Baltimore signed him to a big deal before they flunked his physical.   But Ozzie Newsome thinks Grant is a starting quality WR.    So, there's that.

 

We are still in the off-season...   we've got time...   and the roster was never going to get fixed in this offseason...

 

Lets talk in about 13-14 months and see where we are...

 

 

Ozzie Newsome doesn't exactly have great track record when it comes to WR evaluation, though. The only position (probably QB too) where he's legitimately been bad.

 

I really like Sutton but I understand passing on him.

[Zoltan]

He reminds me of Laquon Treadwell

[Finball]

26 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

He reminds me of Laquon Treadwell

 

Treadwell didn't test well. Sutton had insane agility scores for a big guy. He reminds me more of Alshon Jeffery.

 

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Because he's a big tall WR that we don't need.  We need the shifty slot guy with YAC. 

 

We don't have good big tall WR either.

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:04 AM, shastamasta said:

 

I disagree about WRs. If anything, OL players are the ones not being prepared for the NFL because of the spread offenses and RPOs. 

 

 

 

Sorry....    our discussion got sidetracked by the actual draft!     Funny how that works out?!    

 

Anyway,  I've been meaning to post this....    found it in my "Colts" file on my computer....

 

The lead story from Sports Illustrated.com on April 10....    "The NFL's  Wide Receiver Crisis"....

 

It's an interesting and easy read....

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/10/draft-wide-receiver-wr-first-round-busts-kyle-lauletta-jimmy-garoppolo-chad-kanoff-princeton?utm_campaign=si-extra&utm_source=si.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=2018041012PM&eminfo={"EMAIL"%3a"hK0iBvl%2fj0jr9L%2fN%2beR2ew%3d%3d"%2c"BRAND"%3a"SI"%2c"CONTENT"%3a"Newsletter"%2c"UID"%3a"SI_EXT_D2C0DE5B-64D8-42E8-8EBE-0A420AF89E4D"%2c"SUBID"%3a"99052794"%2c"JOBID"%3a"707020"%2c"NEWSLETTER"%3a"SI_EXTRA"%2c"ZIP"%3a""%2c"COUNTRY"%3a"CAN"}

[Scott Pennock]

The simple answer, we had greater needs along the front 7.....but I'll even take it a step further in CB having a plan at nabbing his "Red Zone" threat.....

 

Sutton at 6'3" with a vertical of 35" and an arm length of 32" means he can reach a maximum height of 11.83 feet to pull in a ball...with 9 3/4 inch hands

 

Fountain at 6'1" with a verticle of 42" and an arm length of 34" means he can reach a maximum height of 12.42 feet to pull in a ball...with 9 1/2 inch hands

 

Plus Fountain ran a 4.46 40 and Sutton ran a 4.54 40....

 

Both from small schools even if SMU is an FBS school they really haven't turned out too much talent since the Pony Express days...

 

I think it was a calculated decision/risk that CB took in order to make the transition to the 4-3 and still finding playmakers later in the draft.

 

Time will tell who made out better, Case Keenum and the Broncos or Andrew Luck and the Colts!

[SteelDragon]

I'm buying into Ballard's philosophy of quality guys in the trenches with frigging Andrew Luck directing traffic. This roster did have more potholes than the streets here in Indy, so I'm okay with a 2-3 year plan of building through the draft. We're already close to being better than any of the Grigson teams

[colt18]

On 4/28/2018 at 1:00 AM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Kareem Hunt led the league in rushing last year.

 

Mark Ingram was 5th.

 

Jordan Howard was 6th.

 

CJ Anderson was 9th.

 

Alex Collins was 11th.

 

Keenan Allen was 3rd in the league in receiving yds last year.

 

Adam Theilen was 5th.

 

Michael Thomas was 6th.

 

Tyreek Hill was 7th.

 

Marvin Jones was 9th.

 

... those are "middling talents" producing top-10 stats...

 

@shastamasta ... you were saying? ...

 

 

ummmm......pretty much everyone on that list besides Alex Collins isn't middling talent....

[Lucky Colts Fan]

7 hours ago, colt18 said:

ummmm......pretty much everyone on that list besides Alex Collins isn't middling talent....

 

And the stats agree with you, which was kind of my point.  Some of them have elite attributes, and may have better careers than guys picked ahead of them in the draft, but since a lot of these guys were drafted in middle rounds... and yet put up top-10 stats...

 

Maybe we don't need to draft the most talented RBs and WRs in early rounds when we can get top-10 production from middle rounders playing with an Elite QB behind an Elite OLine.  Or at least an OLine good enough to keep everyone healthy for a full season.

 

Rod Smith and Terrell Davis playing with Elway and that Denver OLine come to mind.

 

[AZColt11]

I think it's funny how we picked two of the suggestions made here on Saturday in Cain and Fountain.  Good job folks!

[Hoose]

And to state this further....I like Cain and Fountain. I think the Colts did a great job getting these two talents so late in the draft. Now, lets not get carried away; they are rookies and as we all know, rookie WRs typically do not produce in their first year. Which leaves the Colts with exactly 3 experienced WRs plus untested roster guys they have signed for depth. I wonder if a 4th vet WR might yet be signed after the deadline for compensatory picks has passed. (May 8?). 

That would leave me much more comfortable, and there are still a couple of them out there. 

[krunk]

To be honest this WR corps we have now looks better than some of the units Luck had in his earlier years.  Plus he has backs who are capable of making a positive effect in the passing game.

[lollygagger8]

The offense as a whole got better by not having Chud be the OC anymore. 

[superrep1967]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:10 AM, unvrsty07 said:

Our WRs got better by giving Luck time to throw the ball.

Exactly! Our entire offense that got tremendously better without a doubt. It looks as though our offense is just going to have to outscore teams because our defense will still be lacking in some areas. 

[Dark Superman]

I was really hoping for the Colts to get Sutton or Kirk.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Hoose said:

And to state this further....I like Cain and Fountain. I think the Colts did a great job getting these two talents so late in the draft. Now, lets not get carried away; they are rookies and as we all know, rookie WRs typically do not produce in their first year. Which leaves the Colts with exactly 3 experienced WRs plus untested roster guys they have signed for depth. I wonder if a 4th vet WR might yet be signed after the deadline for compensatory picks has passed. (May 8?). 

That would leave me much more comfortable, and there are still a couple of them out there. 

 

There may be someone else you have  in mind....  but, to the best of my knowledge, the best available WR on the market now is....

 

Darnelle Inman...   formerly of San Diego and Chicago... 

 

If there are others of his caliber, I'm not aware of them...    

 

At the moment, I'm excluding Dez Bryant...    personality wise,  I don't think he's a fit for what Ballard is currently looking for...

 

Is there someone else? 

 

I'm all for signing Inman...  

 

Your thoughts?

[Manroth19]

On 4/28/2018 at 4:19 AM, Fisticuffs111 said:

I think we might target Daurice Fountain today, we brought him in for a top 30 visit.

Good call

[ojsglove]

Still time to sign a wr plenty of cuts yet to made 

[conklincolt]

You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

 

Simple,fix our O and D lines first, throughout the whole Peyton Manning era and the luck era the Colts had some of the best wide receivers and tight ends in the league year after year. Especially during the Manning era and we won what, one Super Bowl. So having another wide receiver doesn't necessarily make this team better it didn't work in the past not sure it work now until you fix the real problem and that is quarterback protection and a running game. Hope this helps.

[krunk]

Zierlein had Deon Cain rated as a 2nd round prospect.  Compared him to Roddy White

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/deon-cain?id=32462018-0002-5601-476e-1c21b13a4045

 

 

Pretty good to get him where we got him

[DaveA1102]

13 minutes ago, krunk said:

Zierlein had Deon Cain rated as a 2nd round prospect.  Compared him to Roddy White

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/deon-cain?id=32462018-0002-5601-476e-1c21b13a4045

 

 

Pretty good to get him where we got him

 

Didn't I hear/read that Zierlein and Ballard are friends as well?

[krunk]

1 minute ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

Didn't I hear/read that Zierlein and Ballard are friends as well?

yes

[krunk]

I think we should have a really nice offense this year.

[throwing BBZ]

We have a bunch of bigger WR's under fold Today.
And all we need is for two of them to be deemed worthy of our 53 man roster and stash one more on the practice squad.
 Reich's offense, todays modern day passing game uses slot Receivers,TE's, RB's, and that gadget guy so much that it has lowered the value of outside wr's.

 I definitely enjoyed seeing Sutton's highlights. He is going to be very effective.  But there will be others available in the future if our GM and coaches deem one needed. 

I love the game, and IMO, it is time to get pumped to see what our new coaching staff can get out of the players they are given.

[P'Son]

Better question, how do you not draft a QB?

[Cynjin]

20 minutes ago, P'Son said:

Better question, how do you not draft a QB?

 

To be honest, I don't see how that is a better question.  IMO, it is actually a worse question.

[krunk]

38 minutes ago, P'Son said:

Better question, how do you not draft a QB?

Horrible question

[King Colt]

From what I read so far Nyheim Hines and Jordon Wilkins (a good pass blocker) have skills to become receiving weapons  and Deon Cain caught a lot of long balls from Deshaun Watson at Clemson.