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Simple question. How do you not take Courtland Sutton?


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You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

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3 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

You have no 2nd WR. A guy who's 1sr round talent is sitting there for you to draft immediately and make your team better and you reach on Leonard(who I like) and lose out on Sutton. Then needing a CB and with 1st round talent at a need position you reach again for a situational pass rusher. Oliver, Jackson and others sitting there. How do you make the team better by drafting reach players who are situational pass rushers. I'm baffled.

Frank Reich in the press conference disagrees with you. Plenty of guys that are explosive off the ball, creating space, catching the ball and understanding the new offense. He said mini camp showed wide receiver group is pretty solid. They have a higher importance in the trenches. Every single defensive lineman is essentially going to be "situational pass rushers" in this new defense. Get with the picture. 

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4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Simple answer....

 

He's not as good as you think he is.   This  was an historically bad WR class and he's not more important than the defense or the OL...

 

He doesn't have first round talent...   he doesn't have great hands, he's a body catcher...    

 

And it's widely reported that rookie WRs don't make much of an impact in the modern NFL.   So if you spend a high pick on one, you're likely not going to get much return on your investment...

 

 

idc that we didn’t draft him but if yu think he’s a body catcher yu dnt know who sutton is 

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11 minutes ago, MFT5 said:

 

idc that we didn’t draft him but if yu think he’s a body catcher yu dnt know who sutton is 

 

Fair enough...    I've erased my comment. I confused him with another big body WR...    my bad...   

 

Thanks for the correction....

 

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I used Sutton who I think is going to be a pro bowler. Point is every one on here knows we needed a #2 WR out of this draft. We didn't get it. We need a 2nd starting CB

 in A draft full of them and we took zero. But we took DE's like they were going out of style. That fixes guys running uncovered down the field in what way?

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9 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

Ok other than Hilton. Name one other receiver on the Colts that starts for another team. U can't because we don't have one. 

Ryan Grant has started 15 games in his short career. Chester Roger's will prove to be starting caliber. And there are still plenty of opportunities in the next few days to snag some very capable receivers. How many years have the Patriots won with receivers that wouldn't start for other teams, sir? Can you answer that objectively? We have 2 tight ends that will do a lot of heavy lifting for this offense this year. We have three all-American interior lineman now that will open a lot of running lanes for a committee of running backs to pound and open defenses up for #12 to pick apart. We will be OK this year without a true #2 receiver. We sure as hell didnt have one last year in Moncrief.

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15 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

Ok other than Hilton. Name one other receiver on the Colts that starts for another team. U can't because we don't have one. 

 

Well...   Grant for one...   remember, Baltimore signed him to a big deal before they flunked his physical.   But Ozzie Newsome thinks Grant is a starting quality WR.    So, there's that.

 

We are still in the off-season...   we've got time...   and the roster was never going to get fixed in this offseason...

 

Lets talk in about 13-14 months and see where we are...

 

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The Colts have too many holes to fill in one draft.  

 

Had they drafted a WR people would be upset about not getting a linebacker, pass rushing help, or protecting Andrew Luck.

 

Ballard has made it known this isn’t going to be an overnight rebuild.  He’s getting the front in place because it doesn’t matter how many skill guys you have if you can’t get to the other teams QB and can’t stop other teams from getting to yours.  

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7 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

I used Sutton who I think is going to be a pro bowler. Point is every one on here knows we needed a #2 WR out of this draft. We didn't get it. We need a 2nd starting CB

 in A draft full of them and we took zero. But we took DE's like they were going out of style. That fixes guys running uncovered down the field in what way?

Yeah it stinks how the Colts forfeited the rest of their picks and have announced they won’t sign any undrafted FAs.  The Colts at this stage will probably just line up with TY at WR and nobody else.  I mean, why bother?  

 

 

 

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You can manufacture good receiver production by intelligent schemes and play-calling.

 

Just like you can manufacture elite rushing production with a good OL and multiple backs.

 

You cannot manufacture elite line play. 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Simple answer....

 

He's not as good as you think he is.   This  was an historically bad WR class and he's not more important than the defense or the OL...

 

He doesn't have first round talent... 

 

And it's widely reported that rookie WRs don't make much of an impact in the modern NFL.   So if you spend a high pick on one, you're likely not going to get much return on your investment...

 

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. You can absolutely get good return on a WR early. If you are talking about immediate impact, that's pretty irrelevant...after Ballard drafted an FCS LB and Turay.

 

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4 minutes ago, Trueman said:

You can manufacture good receiver production by intelligent schemes and play-calling.

 

Just like you can manufacture elite rushing production with a good OL and multiple backs.

 

You cannot manufacture elite line play. 

 

 

 

What about manufacturing good line play? 

 

You make it sound like there are a bunch of middling talents at WRs and RBs producing in the NFL.  

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41 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

Ok other than Hilton. Name one other receiver on the Colts that starts for another team. U can't because we don't have one. 

Rogers could start if given the chance.

the kid makes plays and seems to flash every game he plays. I'm thinking he could shine in this new offense.

He's the definition of an over-achiever.

Look, for years Brady has done ok with average receivers.

a healthy Luck and improved OL  will make Rogers better as well.

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1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

What about manufacturing good line play? 

 

You make it sound like there are a bunch of middling talents at WRs and RBs producing in the NFL.  

 

Kareem Hunt led the league in rushing last year.

 

Mark Ingram was 5th.

 

Jordan Howard was 6th.

 

CJ Anderson was 9th.

 

Alex Collins was 11th.

 

Keenan Allen was 3rd in the league in receiving yds last year.

 

Adam Theilen was 5th.

 

Michael Thomas was 6th.

 

Tyreek Hill was 7th.

 

Marvin Jones was 9th.

 

... those are "middling talents" producing top-10 stats...

 

@shastamasta ... you were saying? ...

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25 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. You can absolutely get good return on a WR early. If you are talking about immediate impact, that's pretty irrelevant...after Ballard drafted an FCS LB and Turay.

 

 

I'm trying to say...   before the 18 draft,  in the last three drafts there have been 13 first round wide receivers and only one --- one ---   some guy named O'Dell has turned into anything.    The other 12 are somewhere between meh and awful.  Colleges are doing a terrible job of preparing WRs for the NFL.   

 

And then came this year's draft...   historically awful...   and just two WRs get taken in R1.   

 

So why use a high round pick on a position where you're almost guaranteed not to get much bang for your buck.

 

Ballard took two pass rushers to use situationally...   he wants fresh players so he can consistently pressure the QB...  

 

We'll be taking a WR Saturday...   I'm guessing in the 4th, but maybe the 5th... and he'll be good..

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

I understand that, but do you need to trade up and draft guys 1-2 rounds early. Why don't you get 2 more starters and use picks in rounds 4-7 for depth like other teams do.

 

You seem to think you know where these players should've been drafted.

 

I keep stressing every year...   32 teams... 32 different viewpoints...   everyone sees the same thing differently.

 

If you'd bother to visit the front page of the website and watch and listen to Ballard you might get a feel for his thinking...   you might not be as upset if you'd bother to hear him out...

 

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2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

What about manufacturing good line play? 

 

You make it sound like there are a bunch of middling talents at WRs and RBs producing in the NFL.  

 

You can’t manufacture good line play. You can hide it , or mask it , but you can’t manufacture it.

 

The rule changes have made it far easier for receivers of lesser talent to excel. And on top of that, there’s a plethora of (offensive) skill position talent every draft and every free agent class. You simply don’t need elite receivers if you have an Elite QB. OL and defense is more important to winning.

 

Now, this isn’t to say we couldn’t use another WR or RB , just merely that Luck , good coaching , a good OL , the new rules, and the availability of talent makes it far less pressing than some make it seem.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

I understand that, but do you need to trade up and draft guys 1-2 rounds early. Why don't you get 2 more starters and use picks in rounds 4-7 for depth like other teams do.

Just because you think they took a guy one or two rounds early doesn’t mean that’s where he was going to get drafted.  Mock drafts, even ones done by experts, are really a crap shoot outside of the first two rounds. 

 

I am also guessing ballard views the guys he drafted tonight as guys who can start for the Colts.  

 

Also, as recent drafts have shown us around the league you can find starters in every round if your scouting department has done their homework and you get the right guys.  

 

I think most that are mad tonight would have been mad had the Colts drafted a WR or corner or running back they would have then been upset because they hadn’t gotten a linebacker, or pass rushers, or enough protection for Andrew Luck.

 

This speaks to a team that has a large talent void which the Colts have.  It’s why they only won four games last year.  Ballard has pretty much told people this isn’t going to be an overnight rebuild and that it’s going to take time.  Yet people are mad that’s he’s not filling all the holes the Colts have in one draft.  

 

He’s working his plan which is to improve the lines because they are the foundation a good team is based on, being able to get to the other teams QB and stop teams from getting to yours.  Once you have that then you add the skill guys.  Grigson did the reverse we all saw how that worked and Andrew Luck just missed a full season because of it and some are nervous he could miss more.  Maybe it’s time to try something new and make sure your QB, rather it’s Luck or Brissett, is protected.  

 

Maybe Ballard will be wrong and he made major mistakes tonight.  That’s possiable and if he did he’ll end up fired like Grigson.  Until then I am willing to trust his plan.  It’s also why I told people they should enjoy the Polian/Manning/Dungy era because eras like that are normally once in a lifetime if at all.  

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50 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm trying to say...   before the 18 draft,  in the last three drafts there have been 13 first round wide receivers and only one --- one ---   some guy named O'Dell has turned into anything.    The other 12 are somewhere between meh and awful.  Colleges are doing a terrible job of preparing WRs for the NFL.   

 

And then came this year's draft...   historically awful...   and just two WRs get taken in R1.   

 

So why use a high round pick on a position where you're almost guaranteed not to get much bang for your buck.

 

Ballard took two pass rushers to use situationally...   he wants fresh players so he can consistently pressure the QB...  

 

We'll be taking a WR Saturday...   I'm guessing in the 4th, but maybe the 5th... and he'll be good..

 

 

 

OBJ wasn't in one of the previous three drafts. He was in 2014, with Evans and Cooks.

 

 But why are we talking about 1st round WRs when the Colts were making day two picks? If you look at day two WRs over the same time frame you referenced,

 it's a much different story.

 

I am not saying Ballard had to pick Sutton...but I do think it's a fair question from the OP. Though there are a handful of players I would like to know why they were passed on much more than Sutton.

 

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32 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Lol, if this is a historically bad receiver class AND rookie WR's don't make much of a impact WHY DIDN'T WE SIGN one better than Grant in FA?

 

First...   smugness is not a good look for you...   

 

Second...   you already know the answer to that and you don't like it...   Ballard was trying for compensatory picks...   and yes, studies show that teams who get the most  comp picks typically have the most success.

 

There is still Saturday in the draft...  Thete are still free agents to sign..  deals to make..   pisdibke trades...   you just don't know...

 

Finally...  All of our problems were never going to be solved in this off-season...  this is a bad class of WRs... we stand a good chance of getting a decent one in the next few rounds...   we'll see Saturday...  

 

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26 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

OBJ wasn't in one of the previous three drafts. He was in 2014, with Evans and Cooks.

 

 But why are we talking about 1st round WRs when the Colts were making day two picks? If you look at day two WRs over the same time frame you referenced,

 it's a much different story.

 

I am not saying Ballard had to pick Sutton...but I do think it's a fair question from the OP. Though there are a handful of players I would like to know why they were passed on much more than Sutton.

 

 

I think you haven't taken the time to listen to Ballard yet.   Because if you had you'd know the answers to your own question.

 

1.  Ballard believes in winning with the O-line and D-line.   

 

2.   He believes in pass rush...   lots and lots of pass rush.   It's not enough to have one good one.   Or a pair...   he wants 7-8 quality pass rushers..   waves of them so everyone is fresh.

 

3.  I'm sorry I was off on the year of Beckham draft.   But it doesn't matter.  Because there is still only one first round WR to turn into anything.  The NFL has figured out that colleges are not preparing WRs for the NFL.   So why spend a high pick on a troubled position?   You can probably get a guy almost as good, maybe better using a mid-round pick..

 

And that's what I think happens tomorrow.  We use a 4 or a 5 on a WR...

 

We also need a corner with the other pick.

 

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3 hours ago, Southside Hoosier Fan said:

Grant and Rogers. So we are going with basically 3 slot receivers?...you seriously think that's going to work?

Remember the Marks Brothers, Mark Duper and Mark Clayton?  Couple of “slot” receivers worked out pretty well for Dan Marino. 

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52 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Remember the Marks Brothers, Mark Duper and Mark Clayton?  Couple of “slot” receivers worked out pretty well for Dan Marino. 

What we have does not even compare to those stars except ty. Be for real.

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16 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

What we have does not even compare to those stars except ty. Be for real.

I was being totally for real ... in addressing the point about how can a team go with “three slot receivers”.  The key point being about “slot” style receivers.  Didn’t say what we have is equal to what Marino has, though argument can easily be made that TY is => than either.  Remainder of the Colts corps STBD on how they measure.  The fact that they might all be “slot” receivers is not an issue, really, especially when you factor in Ebron and Doyle for “size”.

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Seahawks and Patriots have been the 2 most dominating teams in the past 6 years probably, and both of them have superior trenches and no name receivers besides Baldwin and Edelman. A good QB with a great line makes average receivers look like pro bowlers.

 

Ballard did good.

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