Patriots acquire 23rd pick

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Maybe NE wants to keep Buffalo from getting a QB? Hummmm

[shasta519]

17 hours ago, dgambill said:

How do the Pats trade a pick for wr. Use him for a year then turn around and get an even higher pick for him! Belichick still running circles around the league.

 

No kidding. Got him with two years of cheap control. And then trades when he only has one year of cheap control for a better pick.

[krunk]

You can almost guarantee anytime you see New England get a high priced receiver that relationship is going to be short.  They don't believe in paying their receivers big money.  Honestly with them the relationship is going to be short for anybody that is high priced unless you are the QB,  a LT or somebody like Vince Wilfork.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

this is true but it was a salary dump by the vikings.  the patriots paid him about 10 million a year, big money for a WR in those days 

 

marvin Harrison was getting about 7.6 

Raiders...who also accomodated BB by giving up a 1st round pick for a 30 year-old Richard Seymour who was entering the final year of his contract.

[GoPats]

 

Cooks was productive but he's not the type of WR who can take over a game. He disappears for long stretches and doesn't handle contact very well. He's obviously a burner, but even with his top-end speed, he doesn't track the ball well on long throws the way a typical deep threat would. He was deadly on those WR sweeps inside the 10-yard line, and a nice piece to have in your offense. But he wasn't a dominant, bonafide #1 receiver, and will probably get paid like one after this year is up. 

 

This isn't a case of my mind changing about a player that my team traded. I would have given the same assessment of Cook at this time last year. I happened to own him for two seasons in a FF league with keepers, so I followed his production pretty closely with New Orleans. A lot of times he was a feast or famine guy. That continued last year in NE.

 

I read that he'll probably get around $14M/season when his deal is up. Maybe LA tries to extend him, I don't know. But there's no way the Patriots would pay top dollar in this case. 

 

So, they dealt him when they were able to sell high. 

 

Their 1st rounders, by formula, could get them as high as pick #9. They have two seconds as well (SF's and their own) so there's a chance BB moves up. But I doubt they'd go all in and trade three (or even 4) picks in the first two rounds to get just one guy. They need some youth. And they only drafted 4 (IIRC) players last year, not all of whom are still around. 

 

 

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

Cooks was productive but he's not the type of WR who can take over a game. He disappears for long stretches and doesn't handle contact very well. He's obviously a burner, but even with his top-end speed, he doesn't track the ball well on long throws the way a typical deep threat would. He was deadly on those WR sweeps inside the 10-yard line, and a nice piece to have in your offense. But he wasn't a dominant, bonafide #1 receiver, and will probably get paid like one after this year is up. 

 

This isn't a case of my mind changing about a player that my team traded. I would have given the same assessment of Cook at this time last year. I happened to own him for two seasons in a FF league with keepers, so I followed his production pretty closely with New Orleans. A lot of times he was a feast or famine guy. That continued last year in NE.

 

I read that he'll probably get around $14M/season when his deal is up. Maybe LA tries to extend him, I don't know. But there's no way the Patriots would pay top dollar in this case. 

 

So, they dealt him when they were able to sell high. 

 

Their 1st rounders, by formula, could get them as high as pick #9. They have two seconds as well (SF's and their own) so there's a chance BB moves up. But I doubt they'd go all in and trade three (or even 4) picks in the first two rounds to get just one guy. They need some youth. And they only drafted 4 (IIRC) players last year, not all of whom are still around. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't agree with your assessment of what Cook can do.

67 catches for 42 first downs. Averaging 16.6 a catch tells me he is capable of going down field.

Brady has shortened his passes by using more passes to the RBs and 5-10 yard quick passes. The majority of his longer passes go to Gronk.

With Hogan in the picture Cooks was expendable while dumping off Cooks contract.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 8:16 PM, crazycolt1 said:

IMO the Browns will take their QB at #1 and Barkley at #4 if the Giants don't take him.

There's just no way you are wrong here.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

There's just no way you are wrong here.

I think the only way it might change if the Browns trade down.

If that happens then Barkley might drop to us?  Not that I would take Barkley over Chubb but we never know who is actually on Ballard's board.

I also don't put too much thought into the Dolphins or the Bills trading with us till Ballard sees who is there at #6.

That could change naturally if the Colts got offered some ungodly offer.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think the only way it might change if the Browns trade down.

If that happens then Barkley might drop to us?  Not that I would take Barkley over Chubb but we never know who is actually on Ballard's board.

I also don't put too much thought into the Dolphins or the Bills trading with us till Ballard sees who is there at #6.

That could change naturally if the Colts got offered some ungodly offer.

Browns could trade down..but why?.....

They aren't going to take a guard 5th and they already have a young 'phenom' (maybe) defensive end

.Barkley is the 'north star' of this draft..

He's the show stopper..the highlight reel..the guy who makes them watchable again...

 

If he gets past the Browns, Denver will take him.

Chubb is our guy..He's going to be better in a 4-3 than transitioning to a 3-4 OLB..

He's perfect for us....

 

 

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Browns could trade down..but why?.....

They aren't going to take a guard 5th and they already have a young 'phenom' (maybe) defensive end

.Barkley is the 'north star' of this draft..

He's the show stopper..the highlight reel..the guy who makes them watchable again...

 

If he gets past the Browns, Denver will take him.

Chubb is our guy..He's going to be better in a 4-3 than transitioning to a 3-4 OLB..

He's perfect for us....

 

 

I hope you are right. But if the Bills or the Dolphins make a huge offer it could be possible for Dorsey to make a trade.

Cleveland does have a pretty strong fan base so if they get their QB and Barkley their seats would be full no doubt. The Browns fan base has to be real excited with what's happened over the last two season regardless of the win-loss record.

[PowerballBlue]

The Pats dump a wr they don't want for a 1rst round pick.  That is magic right there.  Most other teams would be lucky to get a 3rd round pick.

[crazycolt1]

35 minutes ago, PowerballBlue said:

The Pats dump a wr they don't want for a 1rst round pick.  That is magic right there.  Most other teams would be lucky to get a 3rd round pick.

Nah, Cooks is a very good WR and the Pats just didn't want to pay him. He will help the Rams more than the #1 pick will help the Pats.

[Reality Check]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Nah, Cooks is a very good WR and the Pats just didn't want to pay him. He will help the Rams more than the #1 pick will help the Pats.

Given the recent contracts for Landry, Robinson, & Sammy Watkins, I think it is fair to say that the market for Cooks would require NE to pay $11-$15mil/yr for Cooks.  In a vacuum, one could argue whether or not Cooks is worth it.

 

However, when you consider that the Pats receiving/TE corps revolves around Edelman & Gronk, this is where it doesn't make any sense to re-sign Cooks to a new deal based on the current market for WR's....

 

- Pats have proven they can plug in ANYONE around Gronk & Edelman and they can be productive enough to win championships(ie- Hogan, LaFell, Amendola, Hoomanawanui, Bennett, Allen, Dorsett, Cooks, Mitchell, etc, etc...)

- Gronk is currently making max ~$10mil this upcoming season (assuming he hits all incentives)

-Edelman is making ~$5mil this season

 

Considering their ability to win with "anyone" around Gronk & Edelman, does it make sense to sign Cooks to a market-value contract worth almost as much as Edelman & Gronk COMBINED?  Not to mention what he Pats would have to do to upgrade Gronk & Edelman's salaries...

 

The bottom line here is that NE can still win SB's with a much cheaper alternative than what Cooks would command in a new contract.  This is why their coaching staff is better than most....they have proven they can make chicken quiche from chicken s&!t and still win championships. WR is not a "position of need" to them like LB & OL currently are. Their passing game will not suffer W/O Cooks. FACT.

 

It's not as simple as saying Cooks > first rd. pick.  You are completely ignoring "market value" in your argument...

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

Given the recent contracts for Landry, Robinson, & Sammy Watkins, I think it is fair to say that the market for Cooks would require NE to pay $11-$15mil/yr for Cooks.  In a vacuum, one could argue whether or not Cooks is worth it.

 

However, when you consider that the Pats receiving/TE corps revolves around Edelman & Gronk, this is where it doesn't make any sense to re-sign Cooks to a new deal based on the current market for WR's....

 

- Pats have proven they can plug in ANYONE around Gronk & Edelman and they can be productive enough to win championships(ie- Hogan, LaFell, Amendola, Hoomanawanui, Bennett, Allen, Dorsett, Cooks, Mitchell, etc, etc...)

- Gronk is currently making max ~$10mil this upcoming season (assuming he hits all incentives)

-Edelman is making ~$5mil this season

 

Considering their ability to win with "anyone" around Gronk & Edelman, does it make sense to sign Cooks to a market-value contract worth almost as much as Edelman & Gronk COMBINED?  Not to mention what he Pats would have to do to upgrade Gronk & Edelman's salaries...

 

The bottom line here is that NE can still win SB's with a much cheaper alternative than what Cooks would command in a new contract.  This is why their coaching staff is better than most....they have proven they can make chicken quiche from chicken s&!t and still win championships. WR is not a "position of need" to them like LB & OL currently are. Their passing game will not suffer W/O Cooks. FACT.

 

It's not as simple as saying Cooks > first rd. pick.  You are completely ignoring "market value" in your argument...

 

I am not ignoring anything.

The Pats have Hogan and he is the one who made Cooks expendable.

Just stop with the "fact" crap, OK?

[Reality Check]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am not ignoring anything.

The Pats have Hogan and he is the one who made Cooks expendable.

Just stop with the "fact" crap, OK?

Their passing game led them 2 SB wins before Cooks arrived. Their passing game won't miss Cooks one bit. FACT.

 

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

Their passing game led them 2 SB wins before Cooks arrived. Their passing game won't miss Cooks one bit. FACT.

 

 

 

 

No the FACT is Hogan made Cooks expendable.

Sorry you didn't comprehend my comment.

[PowerballBlue]

Traded twice in two years, I think the Rams are going to eat this one. I never saw cooks as a first round talent.  That's what makes the pats the pats.  Although we did hit them with Dwayne Allen. 

[Reality Check]

49 minutes ago, PowerballBlue said:

Traded twice in two years, I think the Rams are going to eat this one. I never saw cooks as a first round talent.  That's what makes the pats the pats.  Although we did hit them with Dwayne Allen. 

Yes you did.... lol!!

[Reality Check]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

No the FACT is Hogan made Cooks expendable.

Sorry you didn't comprehend my comment.

Hogan was already in NE when they acquired Cooks....by your rationale, the acquisition of Cooks should have made HOGAN expendable.

 

Your comment sounds like NE went out and got Hogan so they could trade Cooks.... just sayin'....

[chad72]

2 hours ago, Reality Check said:

Their passing game led them 2 SB wins before Cooks arrived. Their passing game won't miss Cooks one bit. FACT.

 

 

The loss of Dion Lewis and Amendola will affect your passing game more than the loss of Cooks, given the style of your offense, IMO. Only time will tell if Burkhead and White can pick up the slack for an entire season underneath.

[crazycolt1]

53 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

Hogan was already in NE when they acquired Cooks....by your rationale, the acquisition of Cooks should have made HOGAN expendable.

 

Your comment sounds like NE went out and got Hogan so they could trade Cooks.... just sayin'....

They did sign Hogan as a restricted free agent in 2016.

You make to many assumptions with your rational comment. Please don't put your own twist and meaning to a comment I made.

If you don't think Cooks has 1rd round talent that's fine. But because I do and I think he his going to be great for the Rams no need to try to argue about it.

Is it possible just to take it for what it is without making it an issue?

[-JJ-]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:08 PM, chad72 said:

 

Patriots got robbed by the Saints, they turned around and robbed the Rams. Rams gave up too much.

LOL! 

[Finball]

17 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The loss of Dion Lewis and Amendola will affect your passing game more than the loss of Cooks, given the style of your offense, IMO. Only time will tell if Burkhead and White can pick up the slack for an entire season underneath.

 

This.. Dion Lewis is the most talented of those 3, even though he's had injury issues. Amendola never had great raw production over the course of the year but has made huge clutch plays over the past 5 years and especially in the postseason.

[Bad Morty]

I think if you told Pats fans ahead of time that they would trade Garapollo and Cooks and that they would get a mid 1st and a high 2nd in return, they would have been ok with that.

[LockeDown]

I've been saying this for a long time. BB doesn't fleece anyone as a GM.  He isn't evaluating talent at a higher level or his teams would have the best players in the league.  Instead, His one real strength is taking average  guys or leftover talents  with a certain disposition, gives them a winning game plan and they execute.  He makes bad deals all of the time, but it's okay as long as he gets those certain types.  

[Reality Check]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:25 AM, LockeDown said:

I've been saying this for a long time. BB doesn't fleece anyone as a GM.  He isn't evaluating talent at a higher level or his teams would have the best players in the league.  Instead, His one real strength is taking average  guys or leftover talents  with a certain disposition, gives them a winning game plan and they execute.  He makes bad deals all of the time, but it's okay as long as he gets those certain types.  

100% correct.

 

BB takes "value" over talent almost every single time.  Isn't TB12 the ultimate "value pick" of all-time?....

[GoPats]

On 4/5/2018 at 5:57 PM, crazycolt1 said:

I can't agree with your assessment of what Cook can do.

67 catches for 42 first downs. Averaging 16.6 a catch tells me he is capable of going down field.

Brady has shortened his passes by using more passes to the RBs and 5-10 yard quick passes. The majority of his longer passes go to Gronk.

With Hogan in the picture Cooks was expendable while dumping off Cooks contract.

 

Hogan's been in the picture since 2015... he's more of an outside guy but he's not exactly a consistent deep threat. But with Cooks, this is one of those cases where stats can be a little deceiving. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying he's not in the top tier group league-wide, IMO. I'd maybe put him in my top 15. 

[dgambill]

Belichick just ate the Rams lunch. To rent a guy for one year and get a mid first rd for him after giving up a late first to get him. That's brilliant. They weren't going to pay him 12-15 million to keep him after next year....although they could have used him and got the compensatory pick...but a mid first..how do you pass that up? New England has multiple needs and the biggest is LT. This trade allows them to possibly get one of the best tackles in this draft...easily if they use a second to move up. They will probably draft a corner or ER as well....or continue to look at both sides of the ball in the trenches. Their offense and defense philosophy means they will scheme with the players they have. They had no pass rush and losing their best lineman they will look to protect Brady. He has plenty of weapons even if Cooks was almost an automatic first down waiting to happen because teams were playing so far off of him because of his speed. Pats took advantage of the Rams win now mode and got a great pick. This WR class is pretty weak at the top. Rams wanted a wr but decided Cooks was better than they could get at 23. This all in mentality will either pay off big...or could be the start of what we saw here in Indy where in a couple years they are rebuilding around their young qb just after he gets his big money. Rams trying to win the LA market....NE just doing what NE does....win on and off the field.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Belichick just ate the Rams lunch. To rent a guy for one year and get a mid first rd for him after giving up a late first to get him. That's brilliant. They weren't going to pay him 12-15 million to keep him after next year....although they could have used him and got the compensatory pick...but a mid first..how do you pass that up? New England has multiple needs and the biggest is LT. This trade allows them to possibly get one of the best tackles in this draft...easily if they use a second to move up. They will probably draft a corner or ER as well....or continue to look at both sides of the ball in the trenches. Their offense and defense philosophy means they will scheme with the players they have. They had no pass rush and losing their best lineman they will look to protect Brady. He has plenty of weapons even if Cooks was almost an automatic first down waiting to happen because teams were playing so far off of him because of his speed. Pats took advantage of the Rams win now mode and got a great pick. This WR class is pretty weak at the top. Rams wanted a wr but decided Cooks was better than they could get at 23. This all in mentality will either pay off big...or could be the start of what we saw here in Indy where in a couple years they are rebuilding around their young qb just after he gets his big money. Rams trying to win the LA market....NE just doing what NE does....win on and off the field.

Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what Cooks brings to the Rams before crowning Belichick God like?

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

Hogan's been in the picture since 2015... he's more of an outside guy but he's not exactly a consistent deep threat. But with Cooks, this is one of those cases where stats can be a little deceiving. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying he's not in the top tier group league-wide, IMO. I'd maybe put him in my top 15. 

Maybe but Brady really didn't use him to his strengths. I do agree he didn't fit into the Pats offensive system but he might with the Rams. We will see.

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what Cooks brings to the Rams before crowning Belichick God like?

Nope....it doesn't matter what he does with the Rams. That has ZERO effect on the Patriots. Now you can say wait and see what the Pats do with the pick....but honestly...the Pats traded a 32nd pick last year for the 23rd pick this year...and a year of Brandon Cooks. I'd take that trade all day long. How Cooks plays in LA means squat to the Patriots. It's clear he is replaceable in NE....and that is all that matters. What he does somewhere else is irrelevant to what he meant to the team that had him....all that matters is what he could have done for them...and comparing LA and NE is not apples to apples. It's pretty darn clear that wrs in NE are not a big factor...as for the most part they succeed regardless. I will say a big factor is their OL....Tom Brady has had two LTs his entire career. Both year in and out basically pro bowl caliber. NE invests in their line....and they will likely use one of their top picks to do so again. That matters more than Brandon Cooks.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Nope....it doesn't matter what he does with the Rams. That has ZERO effect on the Patriots. Now you can say wait and see what the Pats do with the pick....but honestly...the Pats traded a 32nd pick last year for the 23rd pick this year...and a year of Brandon Cooks. I'd take that trade all day long. How Cooks plays in LA means squat to the Patriots. It's clear he is replaceable in NE....and that is all that matters. What he does somewhere else is irrelevant to what he meant to the team that had him....all that matters is what he could have done for them...and comparing LA and NE is not apples to apples. It's pretty darn clear that wrs in NE are not a big factor...as for the most part they succeed regardless. I will say a big factor is their OL....Tom Brady has had two LTs his entire career. Both year in and out basically pro bowl caliber. NE invests in their line....and they will likely use one of their top picks to do so again. That matters more than Brandon Cooks.

Stroke him all you care to.

[NewColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what Cooks brings to the Rams before crowning Belichick God like?

 

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Stroke him all you care to.

Haven't we seen enough from Belichick the last 20 years to crown him God-like?

 

The guy is on the Mount Rushmore of coaches.   He's not perfect, no one is.  But he's in a league of his own.

 

What more does he have to do?

[crazycolt1]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Haven't we seen enough from Belichick the last 20 years to crown him God-like?

 

The guy is on the Mount Rushmore of coaches.   He's not perfect, no one is.  But he's in a league of his own.

 

What more does he have to do?

Is there a reason the Pats and Belichick has been the most fined and lost more draft picks than any other team in NFL history?

This infiltrating the minds of most Colt fans and this forum is sickening to me.

[LockeDown]

He is the Mount Rushmore of coaches, not GMs.  We will get as good or better talent than the Pats, but B.B. doesn’t win with better talent.  Better game planning and execution. He can trade picks all he wants and just to get a tackle that we aren’t even considering.  But it will be good enough for his team. Any GM can do that.

[GoPats]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe but Brady really didn't use him to his strengths. I do agree he didn't fit into the Pats offensive system but he might with the Rams. We will see.

 

Don't get me wrong here. I didn't say Cooks is not a good receiver. I just said that he's not in the same category as the league's dominant guys (OBJ, Julio Jones, AJ Green, etc). 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, LockeDown said:

He is the Mount Rushmore of coaches, not GMs.  We will get as good or better talent than the Pats, but B.B. doesn’t win with better talent.  Better game planning and execution. He can trade picks all he wants and just to get a tackle that we aren’t even considering.  But it will be good enough for his team. Any GM can do that.

 

I'm sorry.....    I don't mean to be argumentative,  but this is not true.    Not even a little bit.

 

The only argument you can make is that Belichick the Head Coach is better than Belihick the GM.       And if he's not on the GM Mount Rushmore,  he's pretty darn close.

 

For 20 years,  Belichick the GM has been drafting at, or near the bottom of every round.     And drafting players that every other team passed on.     And winning with those players.     Any GM can't do that.

 

For 20 years,  Belichick has either been trading back or up and doing it very well and targeting players that other GM's have missed on.     Any GM can't do that.

 

And for 20 years,  Belichick has been masterful during free agency.    Signing the right guys for his system.   And when he mis-evaluates,  he cuts his losses quickly.    And if you haven't noticed,  he's rarely signing players to huge contracts.    They're typically much more modest deals.   Not any GM can do that.

 

And for 20 years,  the Patriots are almost never in any kind of salary cap difficulty.    His players are willing to sign below market deals.    And when they ask for more than he's willing to spend,  then he cuts them and moves on.   Not any GM can do that.

 

Does he make mistakes?     Of course he does.    Every GM that ever was makes mistakes.     You can't be in the personnel business and not make mistakes.    The idea is to keep them to a minimum and not make too many big ones.    Belichick has done exceptionally well.

 

Just because Bill Belichick is a better HC,  doesn't mean he's not also a very, very good GM.    He wouldn't be winning as much without his work as a GM.         If, as you claim,  any old GM could do what BB does,  then someone else would have by now.     20 years and no one has touched him.     Like him or not,  he's in a league of his own.

 

[LockeDown]

BB had his most talent when he inherited the Patriots from Parcells who took them to the super Bowl.  He never acquired that kind of special talent again except for Gronk and Moss.  Instead, he developed a system where he could win using his expertise, coaching them up and preparation. Oh and cheating. 

 

 

 

 

[Reality Check]

8 hours ago, LockeDown said:

BB had his most talent when he inherited the Patriots from Parcells who took them to the super Bowl.  He never acquired that kind of special talent again except for Gronk and Moss.  Instead, he developed a system where he could win using his expertise, coaching them up and preparation. Oh and cheating. 

 

 

 

 

Did you forget that BB inherited Pete Carroll's/Bobby Grier's Patriots?  There was 4 yrs between the Parcells era and the beginning of the BB era. 

 

While BB inherited some of the talent Parcells had in NE, he really inherited Carroll's/Grier's team and a salary cap situation which was a real mess.  It took BB a year to "clean up the house" before he was able to put his first SB Championship team on the field in 2001.

 

Of course, "cheating" was the number one reason he was able to succeed in NE...

[LockeDown]

3 hours ago, Reality Check said:

Did you forget that BB inherited Pete Carroll's/Bobby Grier's Patriots?  There was 4 yrs between the Parcells era and the beginning of the BB era. 

 

While BB inherited some of the talent Parcells had in NE, he really inherited Carroll's/Grier's team and a salary cap situation which was a real mess.  It took BB a year to "clean up the house" before he was able to put his first SB Championship team on the field in 2001.

 

Of course, "cheating" was the number one reason he was able to succeed in NE...

Thanks i couldn’t remember but my point is that he never had a dynasty defense again...and I’m talking talented wise. 

 

I hate it when I get sucked in to a Pats conversation.  I should have let it go