Are We Moving on David Irving

[akcolt]

There are some that think with our haul of second round picks we are planning to make a move for Cowboys DT David Irving. The 6'7 290 24 yr old DT has made all kinds of splash plays for the Boys the last year and a half. He was leading all DT's with 7 sacks before missing the last 4 games with a lingering concussion(red flag 1). He did this after missing the first 4 games due to a 4 game suspension for performance enhancers(red flag #2).  Obviously our new DC is very familiar with Irving. Interestingly our GM was in KC when Irving was signed as an UDFA. The Cowboys grabbed him from the Chiefs PS. This is starting to look like something to me. 

 

The Cowboys tendered him with a second rounder. They would have the option to match any contract. In order to land him we'd have to give up our second round pick(2 remaining) and come up with a  deal the Cowboys won't match but Irving accepts. He claims to be all in for FA next year. It's not going to be cheap. What was it we were paying Hankins? That cut would make a little more since if Irving came aboard. We aren't finding a DT in the 2nd that would produce 7 sacks in 8 games. Irving may never do that again but he's shown he's capable of being a big time pass rusher. This is the type of move I expect from Ballard let's see if he pulls it off. 

[shasta519]

I would really not like this move. You would have to give him a big deal to get him to sign (because he wants to go to FA next offseason)...and you would doing so based off some flashes in a season where he missed games due to a PED suspensions and a concussion. Oh...and it costs pick #36...which is very valuable.

 

DAL won't be able to keep him...they put the 2nd round tender on him hoping someone takes him. Ballard is far better off waiting until he is a UFA next offseason and going after him then. At that point, he will have a chance to show he can play a whole season and play at a high level. 

[HarryTheCat]

I certainly hope not. Talented guy, but his off-field concerns outweigh his talent. Somebody is going to bite with that second-round tag on him. I just hope it isn't us. 

[richard pallo]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:53 AM, akcolt said:

There are some that think with our haul of second round picks we are planning to make a move for Cowboys DT David Irving. The 6'7 290 24 yr old DT has made all kinds of splash plays for the Boys the last year and a half. He was leading all DT's with 7 sacks before missing the last 4 games with a lingering concussion(red flag 1). He did this after missing the first 4 games due to a 4 game suspension for performance enhancers(red flag #2).  Obviously our new DC is very familiar with Irving. Interestingly our GM was in KC when Irving was signed as an UDFA. The Cowboys grabbed him from the Chiefs PS. This is starting to look like something to me. 

 

The Cowboys tendered him with a second rounder. They would have the option to match any contract. In order to land him we'd have to give up our second round pick(2 remaining) and come up with a  deal the Cowboys won't match but Irving accepts. He claims to be all in for FA next year. It's not going to be cheap. What was it we were paying Hankins? That cut would make a little more since if Irving came aboard. We aren't finding a DT in the 2nd that would produce 7 sacks in 8 games. Irving may never do that again but he's shown he's capable of being a big time pass rusher. This is the type of move I expect from Ballard let's see if he pulls it off. 

I couldn't agree with you more.  The media and fans in Dallas couldn't believe they didn't put a 1st. rd. tender on him.  And they are very worried now about us making a move.  He was second in sacks with 7 only behind Lawrence after playing only 8 games last year!  The connections to Eberflus and Ballard and the Hankins cut all point to this move IMO.  Ballard knows how to construct a contract to protect us and to assure the Cowboys can't match.  He's a 24 yr. old ascending player with so much to lose if he screws up.  And this would only cost us a 2nd. rounder for a proven starter.  I can see Ballard making this trade as well.  I put the probability of this happening as high. 

[richard pallo]

23 hours ago, shastamasta said:

I would really not like this move. You would have to give him a big deal to get him to sign (because he wants to go to FA next offseason)...and you would doing so based off some flashes in a season where he missed games due to a PED suspensions and a concussion. Oh...and it costs pick #36...which is very valuable.

 

DAL won't be able to keep him...they put the 2nd round tender on him hoping someone takes him. Ballard is far better off waiting until he is a UFA next offseason and going after him then. At that point, he will have a chance to show he can play a whole season and play at a high level. 

Why wait until next year when Dallas can sign him or franchise him or if he hits FA we have to compete with everyone for an ER.  We know Ballard won't overpay for anyone and ER's are overpaid when they hit FA.  I say sign him to a contract now when he have more leverage.  His agent knows his situation.  I think Ballard could make this work with incentives and protection without overpaying him at this point.  I say go for it. 

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Why wait until next year when Dallas can sign him or franchise him or if he hits FA we have to compete with everyone for an ER.  We know Ballard won't overpay for anyone and ER's are overpaid when they hit FA.  I say sign him to a contract now when he have more leverage.  His agent knows his situation.  I think Ballard could make this work with incentives and protection without overpaying him at this point.  I say go for it. 

 

I don't think DAL can afford to re-sign him...which is why they are hoping someone bites on the 2nd round tender. And if they did tag him, they would have little leverage. The Colts could work out a trade then for much less than #36.

 

But assuming Irving gets a franchise tag next offseason is a bit premature...he played half the season last year.

 

I think giving him a big contract right now (which is what I think it will take) is risky enough, given the PED suspension and lack of track record. But tossing in #36 on top of that makes it a non-starter. You can get good starters on rookie deals at that point of the draft. Just look at some of the recent guys taken at #36...Budda Baker, Myles Jack, Darius Slay, Derek Wolfe.

 

I also just can't see Ballard making this deal. It will be very difficult to get any surplus value (once you factor in the contract and pick #36) AND the risk is very high. And the way Ballard has talked about having 7 picks in the first two rounds over the next two seasons, it doesn't sound like he will be trading any of them.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

12 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think DAL can afford to re-sign him...which is why they are hoping someone bites on the 2nd round tender. And if they did tag him, they would have little leverage. The Colts could work out a trade then for much less than #36.

 

But assuming Irving gets a franchise tag next offseason is a bit premature...he played half the season last year.

 

I think giving him a big contract right now (which is what I think it will take) is risky enough, given the PED suspension and lack of track record. But tossing in #36 on top of that makes it a non-starter. You can get good starters on rookie deals at that point of the draft. Just look at some of the recent guys taken at #36...Budda Baker, Myles Jack, Darius Slay, Derek Wolfe.

 

I also just can't see Ballard making this deal. It will be very difficult to get any surplus value (once you factor in the contract and pick #36) AND the risk is very high. And the way Ballard has talked about having 7 picks in the first two rounds over the next two seasons, it doesn't sound like he will be trading any of them.

This is correct!

[Str8himalaya]

IMO, this isn't quite as easy as one might think it is. This guy is a legit player and I would venture to say you aren't getting a guy like him in this draft in any round honestly. That being said, he does have some character concerns that definitely are scary. If Ballard was comfortable after gathering some info on the guy to make the trade, I would trust that and be open to the idea. The concussion doesn't scare me as much, it happens unfortunately, but that part is part of the game IMO. He's as talented as any rusher in this class (maybe even more so than everyone but possibly Chubb), and you don't find those growing on trees. I'm very impartial to the idea, but Ballard has to make dang sure this kid has his act together before throwing money AND a high 2nd rounder to the cowboys, which I do not think he will do.

[richard pallo]

16 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't think DAL can afford to re-sign him...which is why they are hoping someone bites on the 2nd round tender. And if they did tag him, they would have little leverage. The Colts could work out a trade then for much less than #36.

 

But assuming Irving gets a franchise tag next offseason is a bit premature...he played half the season last year.

 

I think giving him a big contract right now (which is what I think it will take) is risky enough, given the PED suspension and lack of track record. But tossing in #36 on top of that makes it a non-starter. You can get good starters on rookie deals at that point of the draft. Just look at some of the recent guys taken at #36...Budda Baker, Myles Jack, Darius Slay, Derek Wolfe.

 

I also just can't see Ballard making this deal. It will be very difficult to get any surplus value (once you factor in the contract and pick #36) AND the risk is very high. And the way Ballard has talked about having 7 picks in the first two rounds over the next two seasons, it doesn't sound like he will be trading any of them.

All I'm saying is if he stays with Dallas this year and has a great year Dallas has the tag option among others. You're assuming he wants a big contract now which is conjecture as well.  We don't know.  I think Ballard could get him with a good contract with the poison pill so Dallas couldn't match.  Maybe a shorter deal to prove himself and then go for the big one. He has been out there awhile already and no offers yet that we know of. We could also strike a deal and offer a lower pick to see if they would go for it.  There are many ways to go after him.  Ballard has stated he likes having the 7 picks in the 1st. two rounds but they could be used in any number of ways to secure good young players.  We shall see. 

[Manning1887]

I hope not

[#12.]

This guy is a potential game changer, difference maker.  Not often do you get opportunities at such players, at 24 years old, no less.  Easily worth the risk IMO, especially if you can trade down again and add more picks.  

 

If you could trade down again, possibly take Landry or another pass rusher, then add Irving to go along with Autry, you could potentially have an instant pass rush overnight - not necessarily the quality of, but perhaps a Giants Super Bowl winning style pass rush where you can move Irving and Autry up and down the front.  Plus, you would still have another first round pick and three seconds.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

On 3/18/2018 at 4:53 AM, akcolt said:

There are some that think with our haul of second round picks we are planning to make a move for Cowboys DT David Irving. The 6'7 290 24 yr old DT has made all kinds of splash plays for the Boys the last year and a half. He was leading all DT's with 7 sacks before missing the last 4 games with a lingering concussion(red flag 1). He did this after missing the first 4 games due to a 4 game suspension for performance enhancers(red flag #2).  Obviously our new DC is very familiar with Irving. Interestingly our GM was in KC when Irving was signed as an UDFA. The Cowboys grabbed him from the Chiefs PS. This is starting to look like something to me. 

 

The Cowboys tendered him with a second rounder. They would have the option to match any contract. In order to land him we'd have to give up our second round pick(2 remaining) and come up with a  deal the Cowboys won't match but Irving accepts. He claims to be all in for FA next year. It's not going to be cheap. What was it we were paying Hankins? That cut would make a little more since if Irving came aboard. We aren't finding a DT in the 2nd that would produce 7 sacks in 8 games. Irving may never do that again but he's shown he's capable of being a big time pass rusher. This is the type of move I expect from Ballard let's see if he pulls it off. 

I would think it’s unlikely because we don’t get to choose the second round pick we give up for him.  It our pick that we have to give up from what I’ve read on the subject.  Irving is a decent player but you can probably find someone with a higher ceiling in the draft. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

I would think it’s unlikely because we don’t get to choose the second round pick we give up for him.  It our pick that we have to give up from what I’ve read on the subject.  Irving is a decent player but you can probably find someone with a higher ceiling in the draft. 

There are a few people out there who think the reason the Cowboys put a 2nd. rd. tender on him is they really are trying to invite and offer and get something for him now.  They have Lawrence to deal with and other upcoming players to sign or put options on.  They don't have a lot of cap space. They are hoping someone signs him so they get the pick.  They would love our second pick because it is so high but they only get it if he signs the tender.  We could agree with him on a contract then tell Dallas we  will sign him only if they take a lesser pick and trade him instead therefore avoiding our high  2nd rd requirement.  We are fortunate because we have 3  2nd.s so we could work a deal for the lowest one and they would probably be receptive if this theory is true.  Who knows but I think he is player worth investigating and pursuing.  

[RealityIsLuck]

Injury and PED issues are red flags to me. I'd be for it if he was a FA, or if it was just swapping a pick for him, but the combination of a huge contract and a pick is far too high. Better off taking a guy like Hurst in the 2nd.

[Moosejawcolt]

Ah.....nope.  Review his personal and football history.  He needs a babysitter. Ballard doesn't strike me as someone who is prepared to babysit an adult. If u  think the cowboys r wanting someone to bite....then more of a reason to stay away.  Jerry Jones loves players that have the same moral make up as himself. Makes him feel like one of the boys!!!

[Coltsfanforlife12]

21 hours ago, richard pallo said:

There are a few people out there who think the reason the Cowboys put a 2nd. rd. tender on him is they really are trying to invite and offer and get something for him now.  They have Lawrence to deal with and other upcoming players to sign or put options on.  They don't have a lot of cap space. They are hoping someone signs him so they get the pick.  They would love our second pick because it is so high but they only get it if he signs the tender.  We could agree with him on a contract then tell Dallas we  will sign him only if they take a lesser pick and trade him instead therefore avoiding our high  2nd rd requirement.  We are fortunate because we have 3  2nd.s so we could work a deal for the lowest one and they would probably be receptive if this theory is true.  Who knows but I think he is player worth investigating and pursuing.  

Dallas isn’t taking a lesser round pick for him.  It’s also in the rules if you have multiple picks in this situation it has to be yours.  Not happening.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

Dallas isn’t taking a lesser round pick for him.  It’s also in the rules if you have multiple picks in this situation it has to be yours.  Not happening.

Sorry.  Dallas can take a lesser rd pick if they trade him before he signs the tender.  That trade could be for one of our other 2nd.s and could also be for a third or whatever.  It turns out to be a regular trade for all intense and purposes.  The 2nd. rd tender means they get our pick if he signs it game over.  The whole strategy is you show them the contract he is willing to sign.  We won't let him sign it unless you agree to take another one of our picks in a trade first.  If you don't we walk away.  The choice is theirs. Take a lower pick or keep him. It could easily be for another one of our twos.  Usually teams only have one two.  If you really want to move him now then you have to negotiate.  It can go down that way.