After failed physical with Ravens, Ryan Grant en route to Indianapolis

[hoosierhawk]

38 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

It's more complicated than that, because not all types of player's incomes are connected to their teams home state. Some types of incomes (signing bonuses for example) taxed by the home state, while salaries, per game bonuses, etc are taxed by the state they play the actual game in. So Texans players taxed by state Indiana when they play in Indy, and Indy players are not taxed by Florida (neither Indiana) when they play in Florida, etc.

You are correct on the above. Also I have been looking at property in Fl (not 3M by the way) and realtors are telling me 1.06% 0n property taxes. I don't know who to trust.

[Freenyfan102]

Why are we looking at scrubs and broke  bodies that cant stay healthy on the field.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, Flash7 said:

Okay, let's say he buys a house for $1M in Indy and splurges in Florida and Texas and buys a house for $3M there.

 

The income taxes situation would remain the same. He would save $660,000 in Texas and in Florida due to not having to pay income taxes.

 

Florida - $3 Million house. .97% property taxes. He pays roughly $30,000 per year in property taxes, $90,000 over the three years. He still comes out ahead by $570K.

 

Texas - $3 Million house. 1.95 property taxes. He pays roughly $60,000 per year in property taxes, $180,000 over the three years. He still comes out ahead by 480K.

 

Again, you are not arguing against me. You are arguing against math and facts. You can either accept that you are wrong on this issue and learn and adapt on or you can continue to be wrong. Up to you.

Your math, while not flawed is incomplete.  States with no income taxes not only have higher property taxes but they also have higher sale tax, higher taxes on things like license plates, driver licenses, higher taxes on utilities, higher gas taxes.

 

If you do a salary comparison, a player making $3 million in Indy would have to make $3.2 mil in Tampa to have the same standard of living.  In a place like Miami that player would have to earn over $4 million.

 

So, like crazy Colt stated, the no state income tax will not play a factor in where a player chooses to go.  Weather, night life, etc.  that may.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Why are we looking at scrubs and broke  bodies that cant stay healthy on the field.

Grant has had 1 injury

[dgambill]

9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Grant has had 1 injury

Yeah I don't remember him missing any time last year....in fact he has never missed a game in his career. He hasn't been utilized that much but if we can get him for less then what Baltimore paid it would be a pretty good deal considering the going rate for starting wrs this offseason.

[Pilgrim]

I'm intrigued. I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on the guy, and seeing what happens.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Yeah I don't remember him missing any time last year....in fact he has never missed a game in his career. He hasn't been utilized that much but if we can get him for less then what Baltimore paid it would be a pretty good deal considering the going rate for starting wrs this offseason.

Agreed

[Flash7]

18 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Your math, while not flawed is incomplete.  (#1) ResStates with no income taxes not only have higher property taxes but they also have higher sale tax, higher taxes on things like license plates, driver licenses, higher taxes on utilities, higher gas taxes.

 

(#2) If you do a salary comparison, a player making $3 million in Indy would have to make $3.2 mil in Tampa to have the same standard of living.  In a place like Miami that player would have to earn over $4 million.

 

So, like crazy Colt stated, the no state income tax will not play a factor in where a player chooses to go.  Weather, night life, etc.  that may.

I agree that my math is incomplete with regards to what @Peterk2011 has noted in his reply. Respectfully, I would like to reply to your comment, without coming off as argumentative.

 

Point #1. In the example I provided, the player was given the same offer ($20M over 3 years) and could choose between Indy, Florida, and Texas. I went as far as to say that the property prices were triple the cost in Florida and Texas and then calculated the property taxes and the player still came out ahead by $570K in Florida and 480K in Texas, (all over the three year contract). If we take into account that he player would be taxed differently for home games and away games, we can cut these figures in half ($285K for Florida and $240K). So, does the difference in cost for things like license plates, driver licenses, higher taxes on utilities and higher gas taxes equate to either $285K or $240K over 3 years? Of course not. It's a marginal difference. If we were comparing Indy to California (Bay Area - where I live or NY) you would have a better case. But between states like Texas and Florida, there isn't much of a difference in the cost of living. 

 

Point #2. Please elaborate further, if you'd like. A player in Tampa FL would have no income tax and roughly the same property taxes. A player making $3M in Indy will pay $99,000 in taxes annually, which in my opinion, will more than offset the supposed higher cost of living in Florida for things like license plates, driver licenses, higher taxes on utilities and higher gas taxes. ($99K is more than most peoples annual salary, so there is no way that the difference in cost of living is greater than people's salaries). As far as comparable living situations, there are plenty of real estate comps. Here is an example:

 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Indianapolis_IN/price-600000-1200000#M4999578438

 

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Tampa_FL/price-300000-1000000#M5104331683

 

These guys are professional athletes. They will have finance guys look into this stuff for them. It's no coincidence that the argument for income tax comes up when a player is offered multiple contracts from different teams. It's because it is a legitimate concern for athletes making this kind of money. For the average persons salary, it doesn't make that much of a difference. But when you are talking taxes for 20, 30, or 40+ million, it absolutely does.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Okay, let's say he buys a house for $1M in Indy and splurges in Florida and Texas and buys a house for $3M there.

 

The income taxes situation would remain the same. He would save $660,000 in Texas and in Florida due to not having to pay income taxes.

 

Florida - $3 Million house. .97% property taxes. He pays roughly $30,000 per year in property taxes, $90,000 over the three years. He still comes out ahead by $570K.

 

Texas - $3 Million house. 1.95 property taxes. He pays roughly $60,000 per year in property taxes, $180,000 over the three years. He still comes out ahead by 480K.

 

Again, you are not arguing against me. You are arguing against math and facts. You can either accept that you are wrong on this issue and learn and adapt on or you can continue to be wrong. Up to you.

If you go to Bankrate .com they will explain to you how living in a state with no state tax can actually be higher when you add in what is called a way to disguise the tax rate. TN. for example has a sales tax rate that comes out to 9.45%.

In New Hampshire they have the highest property taxes in the country.

In Washington they have the highest tax rate on fuel at a rate of 37.5 cents locally per gallon.

Florida has some of the highest property  and sales tax rates in the country.

All the states that have no state taxes paid are the highest cost of living states.

Sorry, but you can hand pick those numbers you are sending to me tell me I am wrong and the countries economist says different.

[Flash7]

12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you go to Bankrate .com they will explain to you how living in a state with no state tax can actually be higher when you add in what is called a way to disguise the tax rate. TN. for example has a sales tax rate that comes out to 9.45%.

In New Hampshire they have the highest property taxes in the country.

In Washington they have the highest tax rate on fuel at a rate of 37.5 cents locally per gallon.

Florida has some of the highest property  and sales tax rates in the country.

All the states that have no state taxes paid are the highest cost of living states.

Sorry, but you can hand pick those numbers you are sending to me tell me I am wrong and the countries economist says different.

Your point is correct, but it applies to YOU and ME. We make normal, average salaries.

 

Please understand that this discussion is about professional athletes and their salaries. They don't care if gas costs .37 cents more per gallon. It doesn't affect them nearly as much as it does you or me.

 

Here is an article stating as a fact that the players consider state taxes when making their decision. Nonetheless, let's move on with other Colts related discussion.

 

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sdut-jock-tax-effect-free-agency-andrew-gachkar-2015apr20-story.html

 

You might not think that the state tax rate plays any role in the heartbeat of free agency in pro sports. But thanks to what’s commonly known as the “jock tax,” state tax rates can influence where your favorite player ends up signing.

 

Robert Raiola, a certified public accountant who works for the New York-based firm O’Connor Davies, said state taxes can have a significant effect on free agency in the NFL “because you spend 80 percent of your time in the state you play in.”

[The Fish]

In case anyone was wondering (you weren't), I hadn't heard of Ryan Grant either. 

 

 

[Peterk2011]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you go to Bankrate .com they will explain to you how living in a state with no state tax can actually be higher when you add in what is called a way to disguise the tax rate. TN. for example has a sales tax rate that comes out to 9.45%.

In New Hampshire they have the highest property taxes in the country.

In Washington they have the highest tax rate on fuel at a rate of 37.5 cents locally per gallon.

Florida has some of the highest property  and sales tax rates in the country.

All the states that have no state taxes paid are the highest cost of living states.

Sorry, but you can hand pick those numbers you are sending to me tell me I am wrong and the countries economist says different.

 

You are right, but the whole argument is pointless imo. We just don't know if taxes matter or not. It's entirely case dependent, For example what about endorsement deals? Some players might bring their deals to their new resident state (because it's mostly selling t-shirts and such) while others might not (because they have nation wide/worldwide deals with TV channels, sport equipment companies, etc.). This alone might be a deciding factor.

[krunk]

getting grant would be solid as far as a possession receiver is concerned. Should be much more affordable than the Landry deal people were clamoring for. Seems like a very solid player for that role.

[Coffeedrinker]

13 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Your point is correct, but it applies to YOU and ME. We make normal, average salaries.

 

Please understand that this discussion is about professional athletes and their salaries. They don't care if gas costs .37 cents more per gallon. It doesn't affect them nearly as much as it does you or me.

 

Here is an article stating as a fact that the players consider state taxes when making their decision. Nonetheless, let's move on with other Colts related discussion.

 

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sdut-jock-tax-effect-free-agency-andrew-gachkar-2015apr20-story.html

 

You might not think that the state tax rate plays any role in the heartbeat of free agency in pro sports. But thanks to what’s commonly known as the “jock tax,” state tax rates can influence where your favorite player ends up signing.

 

Robert Raiola, a certified public accountant who works for the New York-based firm O’Connor Davies, said state taxes can have a significant effect on free agency in the NFL “because you spend 80 percent of your time in the state you play in.”

This is the last I will say on the matter because it's just going in circles and you claim crazycolt is arguing against math and logic and that is exactly what you are doing.  Cost of living is a real thing whether you make 50k/year or $6million.  And the fact is, in the example if you make $3 million in Indy you would have to make $4million in Miami to maintain the same standard of living.  Look up any salary comparison site you want.  The player may not have to budget as much as someone making 50k but their money will still go away faster.  Same as with the article you linked.  They are looking at one aspect of living somewhere.

[HectorRoberts]

Is there any update on him yet? 

[chad72]

6 hours ago, krunk said:

getting grant would be solid as far as a possession receiver is concerned. Should be much more affordable than the Landry deal people were clamoring for. Seems like a very solid player for that role.

 

I am not holding my breath though, with the way FA has gone. WR is very much in play with our 2nd round picks now, I feel, to get someone that can play opposite TY on the outside. That might further factor into Ballard not offering Ryan Grant what he wants, which is probably in the $6-7 mil. per year range.

 

I'd be fine with a 2 yr. $12 mil. contract if that increased per year range is for a shorter duration.

[PrincetonTiger]

8 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Is there any update on him yet? 

Nothing

[Qcolts]

Grant is just a guy. Aiken is better than grant and grant has no potential. 

[Indy1996]

22 minutes ago, Qcolts said:

Grant is just a guy. Aiken is better than grant and grant has no potential. 

No grant has more potential then aiken thats why aiken isn't on no team

[PeterBowman]

Any news?

[Hoose]

Grant would absolutely be worth a 2 year $12-13 m total contract, particularly if he takes the deal front loaded so he can be cut next year if it doesn't work out. The Colts need to sign two WRs in free agency if the opportunity arises, and also draft another one, hopefully with one of the additional 2nd round picks. There is very little in the cupboard right now, and you cannot rely on rookie receivers to carry much of a load. 

[shakedownstreet]

24 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Any news?

 

[TomDiggs]

 

looks like he passed our physical but is taking more visits. Likely because he aren’t offering him anywhere near that 4 yrs $29M that the ravens yanked away from him.