Pondering Ballard's Draft Philosophy

[Indeee]

Recently I went back to review some articles/speeches Ballard had made to try to get a guise of understanding what might be happening with the lack of FA moves considering we have so many "talent holes" to fill and the following struck me oddly in a curious way.

 

Ballard said something along the extent of wanting to build a locker room where the players weren't viewed as better than one another based on the money they made. he wanted a locker room of equal guys all excelling through competition at all positions.

 

At first I was like nonsense because Luck and TY and AC's contracts are pretty large and then it dawned on me. Ballard had nothing to do with their contracts at all.

 

What if part of Ballards philosophy is to have just that moving forward for as long as he's the GM? A locker room where not one player substantially makes more money than the next. Where each year, where applicable, the more expensive players get moved or released and the new players brought in are players who are not garnering any real money.

 

Last year there were rumors about trying to trade TY. Maybe true/Maybe not. If true I think I can recall something about him being shopped based on his contract and not his talent.

 

Anyway, could this thinking be a part of his plan

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Indeee]

Not sure why Harry is confused and maybe I should have titled it as an observation. I titled this thread as I did as some forum users believe I tend to post "shocker" threads however this thread is a serious observation.

 

A lot us have somewhat wondered why we haven't given out "bigger money" contracts to proven talent guys. It might just be smart fiscal sense approach but what if it has a deeper purpose. That's all I was asking or wondering regarding this post.

 

Sorry for the confusion Harry, maybe I worded it wrong

[gacker65]

Indeee, IMO, if this is happening, you aren't planning to win very many games.  Would be hard to actually a team that is going to compete for a Super Bowl.  Would mean going after Bottom mid to bottom tier players in FA.  Means would not keep any draft picks that actually excel.

 

That would be mind blowing.

[HarryTheCat]

6 minutes ago, Indeee said:

[edited]

"At first I was like nonsense..."

[snip again]

"Last year there were rumors about trying to trade TY. Maybe true/Maybe not. If true I think I can recall something about him being shopped based on his contract and not his talent.

Anyway, could this thinking be a part of his plan

Thoughts?"

 

 

 

You are right about one thing: This is nonsense. No GM in his right mind (or even one not in his right mind) would ever construct a roster based on some sort of goofy "income equality" theory. And I can assure you that, from what I've observed, Chris Ballard's mind is working just fine. 

 

You do owe me a bottle of Extra Strength Excedrin for Migraines, however. After reading the OP I'm gonna need the whole bottle. 

[hoosierhawk]

I think there may be some truth to this. I don't think his intent would be to pay everyone equally as rookies obviously are paid much less. I think what he wants to avoid is a locker room where one guy playing along side other guys is making considerably more money and may turn out to not be a much better player. I suggested this in another thread and was told it was rubbish but I feel there is much more to consider in FA than just writing a check and using up your allotment of funds.

[Indeee]

Look, I never said any of this potentially was true or even wasn't far fetched, I thought it might be an interesting way of looking at it as all. Truthfully, I don't think any of us would know for sure either way, nor do I personally think a concept like this could be done 100% across the board with any team. 

 

Does seem intriguing though a bit, at least to me anyway for what that's worth

[Case]

He meant that the guys we draft who have been in the building might get upset if they bring in someone from the outside and pay them a ton of money. Pretty much he’s talking about what Jax is doing. 

[Shive]

I think that's his attitude for signing outside FA's. It's not that he wants everyone making the same money. He just doesn't want to sign these FA's to have them come in with a sense of entitlement. He wants guys that are going to come in hungry and work hard for their spot on the roster. I think once you've proved yourself, he wouldn't have a problem paying you what you're worth.

[hoosierhawk]

1 minute ago, Shive said:

I think that's his sttotide for signing outside FA's. It's not that he wants everyone making the same money. He just doesn't want to sign these FA's to have them come in with a sense of entitlement. He wants guys that are going to come in hungry and work hard for their spot on the roster. I think once you've proved yourself, he wouldn't have a problem paying you what you're worth.

Well said.

[stitches]

This is nonsense and all you had to do to convince yourself that it's nonsense is look at the contracts he's given up so far. They range anywhere from 500K to 10M for Hankins and everything in between. Higher end players will get paid higher end contracts. He's said that everybody needs to pull his weight on the team and that he loves competition, he's also said he won't give up A-level money for B-level talent. This should again tell you he considers different types of players are deserving of different type of salary.

 

His point is - he doesn't want to overpay outside players and give them money they don't deserve because the lockerroom is watching. When they get to camp and start working out against eachother and with eachother they are not blind - they see who's good and who's great and who's trash. He doesn't want to have a situation where he puts a mediocre player paid huge money in the locker room because it sets bad examples - it lets other players know that you can underachieve and still get paid, and this is unacceptable... Which is pretty much the opposite of your thesis here... 

[shasta519]

So Ballard is a socialist? As far as explanations for Ballard's lack of FA activity go, this is my favorite.

 

[ColtsBlitz]

Here before the lock? Quite possibly so. 

[DougDew]

The only way that would work is if you had more than a few draft picks play at pro-bowl levels while still on their rookie contracts.  Then let them walk and hope you find replacement rookies who would then outplay their contracts.

[dodsworth]

How soon everyone forgets what happens when a GM blows cap

money wildly on the free agent market. See Grigson's tenure in Indianapolis.

[Indeee]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is nonsense and all you had to do to convince yourself that it's nonsense is look at the contracts he's given up so far. They range anywhere from 500K to 10M for Hankins and everything in between. Higher end players will get paid higher end contracts. He's said that everybody needs to pull his weight on the team and that he loves competition, he's also said he won't give up A-level money for B-level talent. This should again tell you he considers different types of players are deserving of different type of salary.

 

His point is - he doesn't want to overpay outside players and give them money they don't deserve because the lockerroom is watching. When they get to camp and start working out against eachother and with eachother they are not blind - they see who's good and who's great and who's trash. He doesn't want to have a situation where he puts a mediocre player paid huge money in the locker room because it sets bad examples - it lets other players know that you can underachieve and still get paid, and this is unacceptable... Which is pretty much the opposite of your thesis here... 

Fair enough.. as I said it was just a thought not a concrete validation. Right or wrong, some on here are making this thread out to be way more than it is. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So what? again just a thought, good or bad, not an absolute life or death post that needs to be chastised. 

[Case]

4 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

How soon everyone forgets what happens when a GM blows cap

money wildly on the free agent market. See Grigson's tenure in Indianapolis.

*Blows cap money on aging players*

 

fixed it for you 

[throwing BBZ]

Irsay and Ballard want to draft early in 2019. It is the Best way to build a roster. it really is that simple.
Then they will have boat loads of $$$ to keep worthy FA and sign very good players to fill the cracks.
Why is this Simple plan so hard to understand? Oh... when you have Homers wanting to re-sign a slowhort, a Mongrief, ....yeah, ok.

[Case]

19 minutes ago, Shive said:

I think that's his attitude for signing outside FA's. It's not that he wants everyone making the same money. He just doesn't want to sign these FA's to have them come in with a sense of entitlement. He wants guys that are going to come in hungry and work hard for their spot on the roster. I think once you've proved yourself, he wouldn't have a problem paying you what you're worth.

Nailed it 

[csmopar]

39 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

You are right about one thing: This is nonsense. No GM in his right mind (or even one not in his right mind) would ever construct a roster based on some sort of goofy "income equality" theory. And I can assure you that, from what I've observed, Chris Ballard's mind is working just fine. 

 

You do owe me a bottle of Extra Strength Excedrin for Migraines, however. After reading the OP I'm gonna need the whole bottle. 

he owes me a bottle as well, just a bottle of something liquid and with a very high alcohol content

[Shadow_Creek]

i swear some people act like Free Agency is the Draft and if we don't select someone with a high name brand the worlds coming to a end!! Just Tragic Tragic

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

Recently I went back to review some articles/speeches Ballard had made to try to get a guise of understanding what might be happening with the lack of FA moves considering we have so many "talent holes" to fill and the following struck me oddly in a curious way.

 

Ballard said something along the extent of wanting to build a locker room where the players weren't viewed as better than one another based on the money they made. he wanted a locker room of equal guys all excelling through competition at all positions.

 

At first I was like nonsense because Luck and TY and AC's contracts are pretty large and then it dawned on me. Ballard had nothing to do with their contracts at all.

 

What if part of Ballards philosophy is to have just that moving forward for as long as he's the GM? A locker room where not one player substantially makes more money than the next. Where each year, where applicable, the more expensive players get moved or released and the new players brought in are players who are not garnering any real money.

 

Last year there were rumors about trying to trade TY. Maybe true/Maybe not. If true I think I can recall something about him being shopped based on his contract and not his talent.

 

Anyway, could this thinking be a part of his plan

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Its complete nonsense fill the holes on this team with talent not backups this is stupid.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

This is nonsense and all you had to do to convince yourself that it's nonsense is look at the contracts he's given up so far. They range anywhere from 500K to 10M for Hankins and everything in between. Higher end players will get paid higher end contracts. He's said that everybody needs to pull his weight on the team and that he loves competition, he's also said he won't give up A-level money for B-level talent. This should again tell you he considers different types of players are deserving of different type of salary.

 

His point is - he doesn't want to overpay outside players and give them money they don't deserve because the lockerroom is watching. When they get to camp and start working out against eachother and with eachother they are not blind - they see who's good and who's great and who's trash. He doesn't want to have a situation where he puts a mediocre player paid huge money in the locker room because it sets bad examples - it lets other players know that you can underachieve and still get paid, and this is unacceptable... Which is pretty much the opposite of your thesis here... 

Absolutely! Dont know why there is a need to keep peppering everyone with these desperation and conspiracy theory threads. If you truly listened to Ballard, watched last years FA period then you dont get alarmed by what is happening. Hes made what he wants to do very clear. The man clearly said he wants to Build Through The Draft and Supplement with FA. But he said we will be selective and you can't buy a locker room. Multiple times! With regard to him paying out a large contract to a FA he clearly said that person would have to be a guy who clearly has earned it and earned the respect of all his team mates. Said he wont pay a guy who doesnt deserve it. That to me is the right way to do things. Getting the right fit is important to Ballard. Nothing wrong with that. His approach is sound.

[gspdx]

It is possible that Ballard would like to - as much as possible - control some of the salary disparity.  And maybe that is just within position groups.  We don't really know exactly what Ballard thinks about at night when he is watching the ceiling.  

 

Maybe Ballard has done lots of analysis and found that teams with an overall high level of income disparity have performance/locker room/ team issues.  I have no idea, just wondering.  

 

I am sure Ballard knows he can't build a team where everyone makes even close to the same, but he might have a goal of limiting gap in pay.  

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, gspdx said:

It is possible that Ballard would like to - as much as possible - control some of the salary disparity.  And maybe that is just within position groups.  We don't really know exactly what Ballard thinks about at night when he is watching the ceiling.  

 

Maybe Ballard has done lots of analysis and found that teams with an overall high level of income disparity have performance/locker room/ team issues.  I have no idea, just wondering.  

 

I am sure Ballard knows he can't build a team where everyone makes even close to the same, but he might have a goal of limiting gap in pay.  

I think you made a good point.  Positional groups have to be somewhat equal.  Its not a good locker room situation to pay a Suh $60 million and the DT starting next to him $10 million or less.  The other guy is one of 2 starting DTs, he's good enough to start, there can't be that much disparity in talent.

 

But, will WRs get paid more than safties?  Probably.

[richard pallo]

A little off topic but it caused me" serious pondering". Last night before I went to bed I stumbled on some info in a Bills related site or blog I can't remember but I wish I wrote it down.  Anyway someone reported that on 3/12 the Bills and Colts started extensive talks on a "massive" trade that would involve the Bills moving into the 3rd. pick.  This came after they announced  getting the 12th. pick.  If true it's possible both teams want to get through FA before finalizing anything and announcing it.  Today the Bills announced there were "out of money" and are done with any more major signings due to having to allocate for draft choices.  The Colts we can assume are not done yet.  Maybe nothing but It did catch my attention. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, HarryTheCat said:

You are right about one thing: This is nonsense. No GM in his right mind (or even one not in his right mind) would ever construct a roster based on some sort of goofy "income equality" theory. And I can assure you that, from what I've observed, Chris Ballard's mind is working just fine. 

 

You do owe me a bottle of Extra Strength Excedrin for Migraines, however. After reading the OP I'm gonna need the whole bottle. 

 

That's some bad hat Harry.   

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Recently I went back to review some articles/speeches Ballard had made to try to get a guise of understanding what might be happening with the lack of FA moves considering we have so many "talent holes" to fill and the following struck me oddly in a curious way.

 

Ballard said something along the extent of wanting to build a locker room where the players weren't viewed as better than one another based on the money they made. he wanted a locker room of equal guys all excelling through competition at all positions.

 

At first I was like nonsense because Luck and TY and AC's contracts are pretty large and then it dawned on me. Ballard had nothing to do with their contracts at all.

 

What if part of Ballards philosophy is to have just that moving forward for as long as he's the GM? A locker room where not one player substantially makes more money than the next. Where each year, where applicable, the more expensive players get moved or released and the new players brought in are players who are not garnering any real money.

 

Last year there were rumors about trying to trade TY. Maybe true/Maybe not. If true I think I can recall something about him being shopped based on his contract and not his talent.

 

Anyway, could this thinking be a part of his plan

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Respectfully....

 

I think you're badly over-thinking this...

 

Ballard has been in the personnel business his entire career...    he knows best players make the most money.

 

In his first free agency, he signed Hankins to a deal that pays him $9 mill a year, and it could be 10 mill with incentives.

 

And he signed Sheard to a deal that's 3/25 mill.    He's not afraid to pay money.

 

He offered Norwell a huge deal.   We were a finalist for him.  Odds are Norwell went to J'Ville because the Jags are built to win NOW and the Colts are a year or two away, plus Luck remains an unknown.

 

There are still plenty of good players to sign and Ballard WILL sign them.   Watch what happens for the next week...  signings ARE coming...  

 

A week from now we'll be having a different conversation.

 

Honestly.

 

 

 

 

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Resoectfully....

 

I think you're badly over-thinking this...

 

Ballard has been in the personnel business his entire career...    he knows best players make the most money.

 

In his first free agency, he signed Hankins to a deal that pays him $9 mill a year, and it could be 10 mill with incentives.

 

And he signed Sheard to a deal that's 3/25 mill.    He's not afraid to pay money.

 

He offered Norwell a huge deal.   We were a finalist for him.  Odds are Norwell went to J'Ville because the Jags are built to win NOW and the Colts are a year or two away, plus Luck remains an unknown.

 

There are still plenty of good players to sign and Ballard WILL sign them.   Watch what happens for the next week...  signings ARE coming...  

 

A week from now we'll be having a different conversation.

 

Honestly.

 

 

 

 

Exactly Sir! Gold Star

[coach kline]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Recently I went back to review some articles/speeches Ballard had made to try to get a guise of understanding what might be happening with the lack of FA moves considering we have so many "talent holes" to fill and the following struck me oddly in a curious way.

 

Ballard said something along the extent of wanting to build a locker room where the players weren't viewed as better than one another based on the money they made. he wanted a locker room of equal guys all excelling through competition at all positions.

 

At first I was like nonsense because Luck and TY and AC's contracts are pretty large and then it dawned on me. Ballard had nothing to do with their contracts at all.

 

What if part of Ballards philosophy is to have just that moving forward for as long as he's the GM? A locker room where not one player substantially makes more money than the next. Where each year, where applicable, the more expensive players get moved or released and the new players brought in are players who are not garnering any real money.

 

Last year there were rumors about trying to trade TY. Maybe true/Maybe not. If true I think I can recall something about him being shopped based on his contract and not his talent.

 

Anyway, could this thinking be a part of his plan

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Sounds like a 8-8 season

[DraftMaster]

8 minutes ago, relkins said:

Sounds like a 8-8 season

Hopefully, I think we would be worse off with this conspiracy theory...

[Indeee]

39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Respectfully....

 

I think you're badly over-thinking this...

 

Ballard has been in the personnel business his entire career...    he knows best players make the most money.

 

In his first free agency, he signed Hankins to a deal that pays him $9 mill a year, and it could be 10 mill with incentives.

 

And he signed Sheard to a deal that's 3/25 mill.    He's not afraid to pay money.

 

He offered Norwell a huge deal.   We were a finalist for him.  Odds are Norwell went to J'Ville because the Jags are built to win NOW and the Colts are a year or two away, plus Luck remains an unknown.

 

There are still plenty of good players to sign and Ballard WILL sign them.   Watch what happens for the next week...  signings ARE coming...  

 

A week from now we'll be having a different conversation.

 

Honestly.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this, clearly I was overthinking it... I just thought it would've be an interesting way of looking at it even it was farfetched.... Thanks also to you and a couple others on here for "talking me down off my ledge" and exposing my "sinister, hidden plot" of what this organization really is... My "evil posting" empire has been defeated...

[strt182]

I think Ballard wants TEAM players not " ME ME ME ME " players. Granted all players should have thoughts about themselves but know its always about THE TEAM.   

[Buck Showalter]

Thread re-named to help streamline vague thread names