Ryan Jensen Visiting Colts Today

[1959Colts]

Personally, I think I'd pass on Jensen for 10 mil per year.

[Peterk2011]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know he didn't try because all of his early targets signed with other teams. You don't go 0 for 5+ unless you offer less than appealing deals. You are right, we aren't an appealing team. Therefore, Ballard should of been offering above value for every top target he wanted. If he did that, someone would of signed 100%. As of now, you can't convince me otherwise he offered the most money. If he did, we would of gotten a big name. Ballard had his set prices, and no one big signed, so we move on to the smaller names in FA.

 

There is no way there are 5+ top players out there for any team in any free agency who are good fits schematically and good fits in the locker room. So I hope Ballard did not offer deals to 5+ top free agents, because that would make him a fraud, not a real GM.  

 

I can believe that he wanted Norwell and lost bidding on him. But him only, not for other X guys out there.

[1959Colts]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize that, and Norwell is a top 5 G at worst that is 26, while Jensen is a top C who plays G. I think it's pretty obvious who is better, though Jensen will be nice to have if Kelly gets hurt.

But how is it obvious?

Have you watched both players? I am assuming probably not?

So most of us are just trusting the hype surrounding these free agent linemen.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize that, and Norwell is a top 5 G at worst that is 26, while Jensen is a top C who plays G. I think it's pretty obvious who is better, though Jensen will be nice to have if Kelly gets hurt.

 

Jensen will play alongside Kelly, and I would have to say Kelly might be moved to G if Jensen comes in.

 

The last time we got a player that was a former Raven player that became our center (Jeff Saturday), it turned out alright.  

[HarryTheCat]

1 hour ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

I hope we don’t sign him for more than 8-9 mil a year 

Why? It's not like it's coming out of your allowance or anything. 

[Luck 4 president]

8 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

honestly, do any of us really know how much better (if any) Norwell is over Jensen?

I know I haven't watched the tape of either player.

My feeling is, Andrew Norwell, although probably a very good player, has had his stock driven through the roof on internet media hype.

  

He’s an all pro who is 26. Those types of players rarely hit the market. 

[bananabucket]

1 minute ago, 1959Colts said:

But how is it obvious?

Have you watched both players? I am assuming probably not?

So most of us are just trusting the hype surrounding these free agent linemen.

 

So we have to have a film study for every player in the league to know how good they are?  No, we can rely on trusted sources and the fanbase of the player's team.  All signs point to Jensen being a quality starter.

[Peterk2011]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize that, and Norwell is a top 5 G at worst that is 26, while Jensen is a top C who plays G. I think it's pretty obvious who is better, though Jensen will be nice to have if Kelly gets hurt.

 

No. Jensen is a G, who was emergency-converted to C last year after the Ravens lost their starting center.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Luck 4 president said:

He’s an all pro who is 26. Those types of players rarely hit the market. 

The people in Carolina had some kind of issue because they had a FT to use

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Personally, I think I'd pass on Jensen for 10 mil per year.

 

I'd get him to a ceiling of $10 mil. per year with incentives with a base of $8 mil. per year maybe (3 or 4 years worth), so it might work out for all sides. The market is inflated, and we have to account for that a tad bit. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, bananabucket said:

 

So we have to have a film study for every player in the league to know how good they are?  No, we can rely on trusted sources and the fanbase of the player's team.  All signs point to Jensen being a quality starter.

Not unless you are a decision maker

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

But how is it obvious?

Have you watched both players? I am assuming probably not?

So most of us are just trusting the hype surrounding these free agent linemen.

I have seen Norwell heavily and how he blocked for Newton and MCCaffrey last year. He's the real deal. Jensen is a very solid C, but his play is lesser at G. That's part of the reason I'm slightly upset with him possibly over Norwell. G is not his best position, and he's not playing C over Kelly.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I have seen Norwell heavily and how he blocked for Newton and MCCaffrey last year. He's the real deal. Jensen is a very solid C, but his play is lesser at G. That's part of the reason I'm slightly upset with him possibly over Norwell. G is not his best position, and he's not playing C over Kelly.

Stop 

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

No. Jensen is a G, who was emergency-converted to C last year after the Ravens lost their starting center.

I know that, but despite that, he did better at C after being moved over. He's probably an above average G at best and not in Norwell's league.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I'd get him to a ceiling of $10 mil. per year with incentives with a base of $8 mil. per year maybe (3 or 4 years worth), so it might work out for all sides. The market is inflated, and we have to account for that a tad bit. 

That would be nice

[Yoshinator]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Stop 

 

Don't like it. leave. I'm answering a question that 1959 asked me.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know that, but despite that, he did better at C after being moved over. He's probably an above average G at best and not in Norwell's league.

 

Norwell is water under the bridge, we all have to let it go.

 

Jensen at C is still a smaller sample space than him at G, we do have to account for that.

[1959Colts]

3 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

So we have to have a film study for every player in the league to know how good they are?  No, we can rely on trusted sources and the fanbase of the player's team.  All signs point to Jensen being a quality starter.

 

Im not saying being a film expert is necessary.

But at least having watched the linemen play, and being somewhat familiar with them on a name basis, would be helpful before one crowns a player as the greatest (aka Norwell)

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Don't like it. leave. I'm answering a question that 1959 asked me.

You are making definitive statements that are very difficult to prove by OL gurus

[Indy1996]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Jensen will play alongside Kelly, and I would have to say Kelly might be moved to G if Jensen comes in.

 

The last time we got a player that was a former Raven player that became our center (Jeff Saturday), it turned out alright.  

No kelly will stay at center jensen will be playing guard or tackle like kelly never allowed one sack when he started like these guys nowadays

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Norwell is water under the bridge, we all have to let it go.

 

Jensen at C is still a smaller sample space than him at G, we do have to account for that.

Nicely put

[krunk]

id have no problem with him at 10mil per. Ilike the position versatility. I dont think Norwell can play center and guard like Jensen. Kelly was hurt quite a bit last year.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You are making definitive statements that are very difficult to prove by OL gurus

I'm doing it based on my experience watching them both on TV (admittedly a couple games each). I want to sign Jensen, we pretty much need too at this point just in case we miss out on Nelson or the other top G's in the draft.

[1959Colts]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I know that, but despite that, he did better at C after being moved over. He's probably an above average G at best and not in Norwell's league.

 

I do believe Norwell is a solid player. However, past history has shown, these high priced FA seldom live up to their multi million dollar contracts, and eventually get cut a few years into, resulting in dead cap space.

[Luck 4 president]

1 hour ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

How do you know how much we offered?  We could well have offered the same or even more for Norwell but the fact that Florida has no state taxes and the potential for "win now" there is much better than here.  I could see him making that call.

 

We really have no idea what went down with Norwell and so I have no issue paying what is currently the going rate for a solid starting guard to come in and protect Luck if that is the way we go.

Nobody except Ballard and Norwell and his agent know. But I think it’s safe to say they outbid us given Ballard not wanting to pay too much. Also we were reportedly one of the 3 finalists (that info probably came from his agent or someone close) until an outside team came and snatched him up most likely because they were offering the most money. If we did offer as much or more then that shows Ballard may not be great at recruiting. 

[NextGenerationLuck]

46 minutes ago, MightyLucks said:

hahahaha I understand what you are saying though. We just have so much cap and its increasing every year so if we over pay a little it wont kill us. Especially considering none of our current players on rookie deals are going to be resigning for big deals.

You’re right. I’m just a little upset about Norwell. I really wanted him, and for the price we might get Jensen for we could have had Norwell

[Peterk2011]

2 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

So we have to have a film study for every player in the league to know how good they are?  No, we can rely on trusted sources and the fanbase of the player's team.  All signs point to Jensen being a quality starter.

 

You don't have to. But Ballard has to.

 

Btw, Norwell was a UDFA. He played well from year 1, but nowhere near at pro-bowl / all pro level. He had his breakout year in 2017. Just as Jensen had ... in a bit lesser extent. We can't predict what future holds for these guys. As much as they can be all-pros from now on for years, they can fall back off the cliff and be who they were: average-to-good players. So there is a risk, which Ballard HAS to take. We don't have to take any risks, so we can say whatever we want.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm doing it based on my experience watching them both on TV (admittedly a couple games each). I want to sign Jensen, we pretty much need too at this point just in case we miss out on Nelson or the other top G's in the draft.

Okay I talking the way I am after playing both positions and coaching OL and watching OL in Game film for more 20 years

 

 

 

    It is very difficult to compare C and G because of different skill sets 

[NextGenerationLuck]

14 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

Why? It's not like it's coming out of your allowance or anything. 

I’ve been asked this already. I’m sure you can scroll through the thread and find out my reasoning. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown    

   It is not productive to talk about things that did not happen and/or compare new things to them

[Case]

4 minutes ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

You’re right. I’m just a little upset about Norwell. I really wanted him, and for the price we might get Jensen for we could have had Norwell

Oh im with you. I wanted Norwell more than any other FA and to make it worse, he goes to Jax

[Yoshinator]

 

 

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Okay I talking the way I am after playing both positions and coaching OL and watching OL in Game film for more 20 years

 

 

 

    It is very difficult to compare C and G because of different skill sets 

Fair enough. 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

You don't have to. But Ballard has to.

 

Btw, Norwell was a UDFA. He played well from year 1, but nowhere near at pro-bowl / all pro level. He had his breakout year in 2017. Just as Jensen had ... in a bit lesser extent. We can't predict what future holds for these guys. As much as they can be all-pros from now on for years, they can fall back off the cliff and be who they were: average-to-good players. So there is a risk, which Ballard HAS to take. We don't have to take any risks, so we can say whatever we want.

Norwell had the luxury of playing on a marquee franchise while RJ didn’t 

[aaron11]

23 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Right, pff.

But the GMs (Ballard) who watch many hours of tape should know what to do as well as some statistical site.

im hoping we do get jenson now, not worried about the contract either 

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

You’re right. I’m just a little upset about Norwell. I really wanted him, and for the price we might get Jensen for we could have had Norwell

We(Fans) cannot dwell on things that we cannot do anything about

[buccolts]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

There are all kinds of “other” considerations that come into play that are well beyond the control of Ballard and the Colts.  I think that more times than not, it is these other considerations that are the cause in not getting a guy.

 

A hypothetical example, if I am a successful hockey star FA ... and one of the teams hot for my services is the Montreal Canadiens, well, Sorry Hab fans, but I am simply not signing with your team, for the idea of donnng a Habs jersey repulses me to my core.  Ergo, it would not matter how fantastic an offer you make, I am not signing with you.  I WILL, however, not be shy in using the Habs to leverage myself a better deal from a team I’d actually like to play for.

 

I don’t think we should be so naive as to think the above example does not happen often in the NFL ... and in fact that it is our beloved Colts that are sometimes on the short end of that stick.

 

As 'professional' as we'd all like to think everyone is, what you describe absolutely goes on. 

They're all humans, just like you and I.

They could have had a bad meal in Indy.

Maybe there's someone on the team they can't stand.

Who knows. When you have many equal options, nit-picking comes into play.

Heck, draw straws, darts......

 

On the other hand......

I really can't understand why the players I'd like to see play on my favorite team, won't just sign here.

They're my favorite team. What's not to like?

[NextGenerationLuck]

3 minutes ago, MightyLucks said:

Oh im with you. I wanted Norwell more than any other FA and to make it worse, he goes to Jax

I teared up when that notification came across my phone hahaha. 

[NextGenerationLuck]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

We(Fans) cannot dwell on things that we cannot do anything about

I’m not losing sleep over not singing him. But I felt like a kid on Christmas waiting to open up a red Ryder BB gun, only to not get one. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, NextGenerationLuck said:

I’m not losing sleep over not singing him. But I felt like a kid on Christmas waiting to open up a red Ryder BB gun, only to not get one. 

You'll shoot your eye out! You'll shoot your eye out!

[Valpo2004]

47 minutes ago, stitches said:

Walterfootball is trash. In multiple FA rankings Jensen is ranked as a top 50 free agent this year ahead of a ton of players this board has been clamoring for. Here's a handful:

 

http://nfltraderumors.co/top-2018-nfl-free-agents-list/

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000917412/article/top-101-nfl-free-agents-of-2018-kirk-cousins-tops-the-boar

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-free-agency-2018-top-free-agents-player-rankings-by-position-franchise-tags/13miy0x4fy0x51g9luduz20sg

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-free-agent-tracker-an-updated-list-of-where-the-top-50-players-have-signed/

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/26/17040158/nfl-free-agency-2018-top-100-players-signed

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/22654948/ranking-top-100-nfl-free-agents-2018-kirk-cousins-jimmy-graham-andrew-norwell-headline-class

 

 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22669170/mega-guide-2018-nfl-free-agency-players-know-every-category-salary-cap-space-team-needs

 

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/06/pfts-free-agent-top-100/

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/2018-nfl-free-agent-top-100-041800297--spt.html

 

Can he play guard as well as he plays center?

 

It's nice to have a backup but we desperately need new starters at guard.