We need to stop saying these contracts are ridiculous...

[Indeee]

Look, the "OLD SCHOOL" debate on over-paying vs. not over-paying vs. position is irrelevant in 2018.

 

When it comes to the "TOP TALENT" teams WILL have to pay big to get them, especially when the cap number continues to go up every year giving teams more money to spend.

 

The notion of "Norwell's Contract" as example, being horrible as he is over paid for a Guard is stupid. He's the best Guard, was the best Guard on the market and now-a-days you have to pay for talent. The colts did not.

 

It's the second tier contracts, where players get over paid by desperate teams who were cautious with the "TOP" talent guys that are normally terrible contracts.

 

Enter the Colts here.... Have the money but go after 2nd tier guys. In Norwell's case I really don't fault the Colts as it has just as much to do about geographically playing as well as the contract. Norwell has a huge TAX free bracket down there in FLA now to go along with that contract

 

Please everybody, stop this notion of "money ratio" vs. position. If you want the top talent, in today's NFL you gotta pay for it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Keenum intends to sign with the Broncos, Hitchens with the Chiefs.

[csmopar]

12 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Look, the "OLD SCHOOL" debate on over-paying vs. not over-paying vs. position is irrelevant in 2018.

 

When it comes to the "TOP TALENT" teams WILL have to pay big to get them, especially when the cap number continues to go up every year giving teams more money to spend.

 

The notion of "Norwell's Contract" as example, being horrible as he is over paid for a Guard is stupid. He's the best Guard, was the best Guard on the market and now-a-days you have to pay for talent. The colts did not.

 

It's the second tier contracts, where players get over paid by desperate teams who were cautious with the "TOP" talent guys that are normally terrible contracts.

 

Enter the Colts here.... Have the money but go after 2nd tier guys. In Norwell's case I really don't fault the Colts as it has just as much to do about geographically playing as well as the contract. Norwell has a huge TAX free bracket down there in FLA now to go along with that contract

 

Please everybody, stop this notion of "money ratio" vs. position. If you want the top talent, in today's NFL you gotta pay for it.

[Mr.Debonair]

They’ll be the same ones complaining when the season sucks again. 

[SwissColtsFan]

I mean, nothing’s official until it’s official right?

 

Anyway, we already knew that the Colts weren’t going to get into a bidding war with anyone - Ballard has made that abundantly clear ever since he got the job.

 

There are still a lot of good quality players out there - I’m sure the Colts will sign a few guys who fill some holes in the roster.

 

the way things are shaking out, though, I feel our draft strategy is going to be heavily affected.

[Stoney]

You can always depend on the ol Colts forum folks to say every single quality player costs too much coin. Old timers that don't adapt... Can't even get people in this forum to want to spend some $$ when were sitting on 80mil. 

[Jackie Daytona]

I have to disagree.....  no OG has ever  been worth Top OT money.  I'm just as right as you are, opinions man, you know what they say....

[richard pallo]

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

[Jackie Daytona]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

Loses out to the Jags...... exactly how is Jacksonville an underdog for FA's if they want to pay up?

[Defjamz26]

If you want top talent you have to draft it. 

[Jackie Daytona]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

  Something is seriously wrong here!

 

Yes, you need to step back, and let the dust settle.....  it'll be ok, I promise.  When has Indy ever signed big name day one FA's?  Why are you so shocked?  

[Indy Fan]

It’s crazy that people have differing opinions in this day and age. Who would’ve thought??

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

If you want top talent you have to draft it. 

Well if that's the case we better trade our 3rd. pick for a boatload of picks.  He certainly is settling for second tier guys again.  This rebuild is going to take forever with 7 picks a year!

[TomDiggs]

Norwell's contract was exactly where it should have been. anyone saying otherwise doesn't know a darn thing about free agency. He was always going to re-set last year's OG market that Zeitler set at 5 yrs and $60M.

 

However, the Robinson and Watkins contracts are a bit absurd. Watkins especially. Watkins is now currently paid as the 4th highest paid WR and Allen Robinson 9th.

 

No way either of them lives up to that.

 

I would have been fine "overpaying" for Norwell since he deserved it. I'll gladly pass on making Watkins a top-5 WR or Robinson a top-10.

 

As for Hitchens at $9M a year? Again that $9M a year would make him a top-5 ILB. Is Hitchens a top-5 ILB? No. So again, happy to miss on that if so.

 

 

[Shadow_Creek]

How are these teams able to make these signings before Free Agent period starts..isn't there a tampering violation?

[XxGoosexX]

5 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

How are these teams able to make these signings before Free Agent period starts..isn't there a tampering violation?

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Unofficial-Start-To-Free-Agency-For-Colts-Starts-Now/8e0681fd-4bf8-4889-954d-01700bcf0aab

[a06cc]

I’m cool with whatever Ballard does in Free Agency. Seems like he manages the money for contracts well. Plus you never know what diamond in the rough he’ll get. 

[OffensivelyPC]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYIN TOO!  ALL THE GM'S IN INDY AND NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO LOSE NORWELL TO THE JAGS!  NOT EVEN A FINALIST!! WHAT A BUNCH OF NINCOMPOOPS!!  ONE THING IS FOR SURE, YOU KNOW HOW TO RUN A FOOTBALL TEAM.  WHEN YOU STAY UP ALL NIGHT WORKING, YOU GET YO MAYNE!!

[Cynjin]

54 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Look, the "OLD SCHOOL" debate on over-paying vs. not over-paying vs. position is irrelevant in 2018.

 

When it comes to the "TOP TALENT" teams WILL have to pay big to get them, especially when the cap number continues to go up every year giving teams more money to spend.

 

The notion of "Norwell's Contract" as example, being horrible as he is over paid for a Guard is stupid. He's the best Guard, was the best Guard on the market and now-a-days you have to pay for talent. The colts did not.

 

It's the second tier contracts, where players get over paid by desperate teams who were cautious with the "TOP" talent guys that are normally terrible contracts.

 

Enter the Colts here.... Have the money but go after 2nd tier guys. In Norwell's case I really don't fault the Colts as it has just as much to do about geographically playing as well as the contract. Norwell has a huge TAX free bracket down there in FLA now to go along with that contract

 

Please everybody, stop this notion of "money ratio" vs. position. If you want the top talent, in today's NFL you gotta pay for it.

 

These contracts are ridiculous!!!

[Cynjin]

22 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

 

 

There is something seriously wrong with your post.

[Shadow_Creek]

1 minute ago, Bizarro Superman said:

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYIN TOO!  ALL THE GM'S IN INDY AND NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO LOSE NORWELL TO THE JAGS!  NOT EVEN A FINALIST!! WHAT A BUNCH OF NINCOMPOOPS!!  ONE THING IS FOR SURE, YOU KNOW HOW TO RUN A FOOTBALL TEAM.  WHEN YOU STAY UP ALL NIGHT WORKING, YOU GET YO MAYNE!!

or maybe all 3 GMs felt it was insane to pay over 66 Million to someone who might not even pan out in the next couple of years so maybe there the smart ones

[TomDiggs]

5 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

or maybe all 3 GMs felt it was insane to pay over 66 Million to someone who might not even pan out in the next couple of years so maybe there the smart ones

 

At the end of the day, if we were really, truly "in" on Norwell, then we had to know he was going to cost over the 5 yr, $60M contract Zeitler got. $13-$14M a year on a 5 year deal was going to be the number. We all knew it. We all knew Norwell would become the highest paid offensive lineman if so.

 

What folks here seem to not comprehend or simply overlook is that if the Colts offer you the exact same money as the Giants or 49ers or Jaguars, the player has to actually prefer the Colts to those other places.

 

Just making the same offer doesn't win you the guy. You need to actually outbid the other guys. So if the Jags were willing to go 5 years and $66.5M, the Colts would have needed to be in the 5 years, $70M range. Or at least be offering more than $30M guaranteed on the same type of deal.

 

That, again, would make Norwell the highest paid OL in the league. Not just OG, but OL overall.

 

Hard to argue with Ballard deciding against that.

[Tim Chewning]

I would rather overpay a couple million and get the top guy you know will perform than get a couple middle of the road guys and have to go thru this again in a couple years

[Coffeedrinker]

7 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

 

At the end of the day, if we were really, truly "in" on Norwell, then we had to know he was going to cost over the 5 yr, $60M contract Zeitler got. $13-$14M a year on a 5 year deal was going to be the number. We all knew it. We all knew Norwell would become the highest paid offensive lineman if so.

 

What folks here seem to not comprehend or simply overlook is that if the Colts offer you the exact same money as the Giants or 49ers or Jaguars, the player has to actually prefer the Colts to those other places.

 

Just making the same offer doesn't win you the guy. You need to actually outbid the other guys. So if the Jags were willing to go 5 years and $66.5M, the Colts would have needed to be in the 5 years, $70M range. Or at least be offering more than $30M guaranteed on the same type of deal.

 

That, again, would make Norwell the highest paid OL in the league. Not just OG, but OL overall.

 

Hard to argue with Ballard deciding against that.

At it may not even be about money.  Perhaps he doesn't like the Colts morality clause, or maybe he likes to skydive and the Colts wanted it in the contract that he can't skydive or scuba dive or something that doesn't have anything to do with diving, :).  Maybe the Colts stated that he has to spend x number of hours per year doing charity work and he doesn't want to do that. Maybe he doesn't like the Colts policy on fines for missing team meetings. An NFL contract is tens of pages, it may not have had anything to do money.  Or maybe, like you stated it could be based on he likes the vision of the Jags over the next 5 years than the vision of the Colts or Giants.

 

And oh yeah, that contract is ridiculous.  Just had to put that in there.

[Aluckiswolverine]

47 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

[Shive]

53 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This GM is too slow.  Another first timer GM like Grigson.  He was a finalist for Norwell, supposedly, and loses out to the Jags?  And Hitchens too?  Seriously?   And Watkins and Robinson as well.  I wake up to read all of this.   Come on Ballard did you ever think of working through the night like apparently some GM's have.  Something is seriously wrong here!

 Ballard literally told us this was going to happen. You set unrealistic expectations and have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

Also, we were in the final mix for a few guys, so he's obviously putting in the work. He's just not willing to overpay.

[Trueman]

44 minutes ago, Bizarro Superman said:

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYIN TOO!  ALL THE GM'S IN INDY AND NEW YORK AND SAN FRANCISCO LOSE NORWELL TO THE JAGS!  NOT EVEN A FINALIST!! WHAT A BUNCH OF NINCOMPOOPS!!  ONE THING IS FOR SURE, YOU KNOW HOW TO RUN A FOOTBALL TEAM.  WHEN YOU STAY UP ALL NIGHT WORKING, YOU GET YO MAYNE!!

 

Is this another one of those times where I’m supposed to respect everyone’s opinion?

[icf]

I’d much rather see Ballard overpay for a few very good/great players of need..

then sign 6 mediocre guys to “value’ contracts. 

 

I get not wanting to spend like crazy, but am tired of this team being average at best.

 

This is team has a ton of holes....the draft won’t fix them all. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Obviously it's disappointing Norwell is gone, he signing with the Jags even makes it worse but we just have to move on. We have to nail the Draft but I have said that all along. I wouldn't mind trading down now and taking Nelson + having an extra pick in Round 2 perhaps. Trade down with Broncos or Jets and take Nelson and get another Round 2 pick. Then if we have 2 picks in Round 2, take a Pass Rusher perhaps and a RB to go with Mack. Broncos are going to get Keenum but is he really a franchise QB and the Jets need a QB badly. Cousins needs to sign with Minny so the Jets will be desperate.

[shasta519]

I have no problem with the Norwell contract. And the ARob contract isn't that crazy if he passes his physical.

 

But I do think $9M for Hitchens is a bit rich...and that Watkins contract is dumb.

[IinD]

[shasta519]

I will say this. These contracts are one of the big reasons why I really wanted to see Ballard take advantage of cap-strapped teams and trade for established talent. 

[richard pallo]

I remember a few years ago Gore committed to the Eagles after we tried to sigh him and then at the eleventh hour he had a change of heart and signed with the Colts.  So nothing is final until they sign the contract and we don't know what we offered these other players if at all.  The only one we know for sure is Norwell.  His contract came in where I expected it.  Don't see why we couldn't offer him more guaranteed money and try to swoop in.  I know I'm groping at straws.  Just disappointed. 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I will say this. These contracts are one of the big reasons why I really wanted to see Ballard take advantage of cap-strapped teams and trade for established talent. 

Exactly.  That's why I can't understand why Ballard won't take advantage of Miami's cap problem and trade a mid round pick for their starting RT James.  9.3m looks like a bargain now and we have plenty of space.  Our luck they will release him and another team will give him a big contract rather than us.  He needs to fix this line and this should be his first move now IMO.  I know he's getting paid the bug bucks.  He know's what he's doing.  Right?

[dgambill]

19 minutes ago, Shive said:

 Ballard literally told us this was going to happen. You set unrealistic expectations and have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

Also, we were in the final mix for a few guys, so he's obviously putting in the work. He's just not willing to overpay.

Thank you! Perfectly said. If you think paying guys like Hitchens the same money as guys like Luke Keuchley and Watkins the same as Julio Jones and Norwell the same as Joe Thomas then well your signing second tier guys to first tier money....and that is what happens in FA. You are overpaying no matter how good you think these free agents are and that isn't sustainable when your trying to build a team. We've watched teams like Washington and Oakland and Dallas in the past try to buy their way to a championship...heck Philly did it about 10 years ago remember the "Dream Team" they put together? If you have the right nucleus around that you can add some key free agents sure you can go after some of these guys but we aren't close to that position....we are a 4-12 team...and we need to behave like it...and build this team back up with the draft. Not only are there a lot of unrealistic expectations set for who we should get but I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations on how fast this gets turned around. It took us how many years of Grigson to get into this mess. I don't think it is too much to expect it might take 3 or 4 years to get us out of it.

[shasta519]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Exactly.  That's why I can't understand why Ballard won't take advantage of Miami's cap problem and trade a mid round pick for their starting RT James.  9.3m looks like a bargain now and we have plenty of space.  Our luck they will release him and another team will give him a big contract rather than us.  He needs to fix this line and this should be his first move now IMO.  I know he's getting paid the bug bucks.  He know's what he's doing.  Right?

 

That's likely what will happen. Colts haven't even been connected to any of these potential trades.

 

I get that Ballard isn't dumb, but I have yet to see him be shrewd this offseason. Plenty of time though. 

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

That's likely what will happen. Colts haven't even been connected to any of these potential trades.

 

I get that Ballard isn't dumb, but I have yet to see him be shrewd this offseason. Plenty of time though. 

We can only hope.

[IndyScribe]

21 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Exactly.  That's why I can't understand why Ballard won't take advantage of Miami's cap problem and trade a mid round pick for their starting RT James.  9.3m looks like a bargain now and we have plenty of space.  Our luck they will release him and another team will give him a big contract rather than us.  He needs to fix this line and this should be his first move now IMO.  I know he's getting paid the bug bucks.  He know's what he's doing.  Right?

Why is everyone fixated on James? Is James even worth 9.3 million a year? I'm sure there are much better O-Line men in free agency that could be signed for a similar amount. Also, RT isn't as big of a need as guard.

[Shive]

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Exactly.  That's why I can't understand why Ballard won't take advantage of Miami's cap problem and trade a mid round pick for their starting RT James.  9.3m looks like a bargain now and we have plenty of space.

I think that could still be a solid option, but hopefully the asking price drops as they get more desperate.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, IndyScribe said:

Why is everyone fixated on James? Is James even worth 9.3 million a year? I'm sure there are much better O-Line men in free agency that could be signed for a similar amount. Also, RT isn't as big of a need as guard.

IMO no one on our team has claimed the RT spot.  It's wide open.  James is a 4yr starter at RT after being a no.1 pick.  He will get a much larger contract in FA.  Tackles get paid more than guards.  IMO this is an easy plug and play player and we have three spots fixed on the OL.  I'm sure Ballard will find a guard in FA that is better than any player we currently have.  James can be acquired for a pick and that would be a great start and we avoid going after him in FA.  The way this FA is going the longer we wait someone else might come in and trade for him.  It's a gamble.