Deguglielmo's tendencies on OL

[Jackie Daytona]

I have read on PFT and a few other boards that OL Coach Deguglielmo favors rotating OL players in games to keep them fresh.  I'm not sure if he also did this in stops with the Giants and Dolphins, but I do know NE's OL was ravaged by injuries the year he struggled with them.  

 

Not sure I really like the idea of rotating guys on the OL from game to game, and even within games..... IF that is his predilection.   Seems the rotating door at OL has been one of our myriad issues on the OL the last several years.  

 

Anyone have insight on Deguglielmo's coaching habits in seasons and with teams other than the 2015'ish NE Patriots?  Just trying to guage what he might lean our OL guys towards as far as gameplanning.... I know nothing of his ability to teach technique, or what his other tendencies are.

[PrincetonTiger]

It works both ways

[chad72]

For what it is worth, when Josh McDaniels made this pick for his OL coach, when he was still rumored to be Colts HC, this was written (keep in mind, it is a Pats site):

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2018/1/30/16952406/colts-sign-former-patriots-ol-coach-dave-deguglielmo-which-is-bad-news-for-andrew-luck

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2016/5/19/11711962/the-difference-between-patriots-ol-coach-dante-scarnecchia-and-dave

 

 

2015 Broncos' D was historically good. Both Broncos and Patriots won 12 games in that season with Broncos winning HFA. Plus, the Patriots' OL was ravaged with injuries. 

 

2014 Patriots won the SB, it felt like their OL, that enjoyed better health than 2015, started gelling better as the season went on. However, you have a Brady, that can make quick decisions to get rid of the ball like Peyton, minimizing OL deficiencies.

 

But then, they lost in 2013 in the AFCCG to the Broncos on the road as well and Scar was coach, go figure.

 

This is one pick, I think we may not have made, if Josh McDaniels was not going to be HC. Of all the coaches whose contracts we decided to honor, this might be the coach with the shortest leash should our OL performance goes south. 

[21isSuperman]

Everything I've read about OL play says continuity among the players is one of the biggest factors leading to success.  If he does like to rotate players in a game, I'd be a little wary of it.  I suppose it's hard to know until we actually see it on the field, but this doesn't go in line with what I've come to know about OL play

[WoolMagnet]

He does a great job as Jimmy Kimmel's sidekick too.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

Everything I've read about OL play says continuity among the players is one of the biggest factors leading to success.  If he does like to rotate players in a game, I'd be a little wary of it.  I suppose it's hard to know until we actually see it on the field, but this doesn't go in line with what I've come to know about OL play

Continuity helps a player not always the team 

 

  A lot of High School and college programs flip their G/Ts based on the strong side

 

  Kentucky uses a system that calls for position or personnel changes based on strength and play 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I am ok with rotating during a game if the talent is similar, and not going crazy with it. It can get some experience to players who may need it. When the OL is rolling I wouldn't touch it though. 

[NewColtsFan]

Honestly.....

 

I've never ever heard of a coach who PREFERS rotating O-lineman...

 

Sometimes circumstances dictate what you have to do...   and it was noted there were injuries to deal with...

 

It's near impossible for me to believe that Ballard would be OK with this....

 

Continuity is EVERYTHING on the line.  Hard to achieve this if you're constantly rotating players in and out...

 

[dodsworth]

With a hurry up offense, they had better build depth and rotate fresh bodies.

It's a long and grueling season for this type of offense.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly.....

 

I've never ever heard of a coach who PREFERS rotating O-lineman...

 

Sometimes circumstances dictate what you have to do...   and it was noted there were injuries to deal with...

 

It's near impossible for me to believe that Ballard would be OK with this....

 

Continuity is EVERYTHING on the line.  Hard to achieve this if you're constantly rotating pkayers in and out...

 

As I said earlier Continuity does not matter as much as some think

 

  the only position that it really matters with is C

 

 

    This kind of system often produce the best out of everyone

       You must play you best to keep your spot

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

With a hurry up offense, they had better build depth and rotate fresh bodies.

It's a long and grueling season for this type of offense.

One reason Kentucky uses a rotation system 

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

As I said earlier Continuity does not matter as much as some think

 

  the only position that it really matters with is C

 

 

    This kind of system often produce the best out of everyone

       You must play you best to keep your spot

 

The first sentence you wrote is an opinion...    and it flies in the face of the widely accepted viewpoint that continuity is everything.

 

I'm in that camp until someone gives me a reason to think otherwise...    Sorry...

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The first sentence you wrote is an opinion...    and it flies in the face of the widely accepted viewpoint that continuity is everything.

 

I'm in that camp until someone gives me a reason to think otherwise...    Sorry...

 

NCF 

  I am a former C/G who also was a HS OL Assistant  

   I broke down Game film and OL play for most of my life

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

NCF 

  I am a former C/G who also was a HS OL Assistant  

   I broke down Game film and OL play for most of my life

 

I appreciate that ....

 

Find me NFL coaches and GMs who agree with you.  Find me articles that support your viewpoint.

 

To be clear, which viewpoint do you think is the more widely accepted?     Not which viewpoint do you agree with?    Which is the more believed viewpoint?

 

[Behle]

Many teams rotate players on the o-line, but usually at only one spot. Mostly two players who are similar in ability. (meaning not very good to be a full time starter) Teams tend to not rotate players if they are quality players. 

[LockeDown]

New England would take a lot of plays on a scoring drive due to small ball opposed to Peyton who moved much faster with less time for offense on the field.  Different substitute patterns I would think.

[PrincetonTiger]

14 minutes ago, Behle said:

Many teams rotate players on the o-line, but usually at only one spot. Mostly two players who are similar in ability. (meaning not very good to be a full time starter) Teams tend to not rotate players if they are quality players. 

Very true

[Valpo2004]

Does OL really get that tired?  

 

I mean if you run a bunch of screens I could see that happening.  But they don't move that much during most plays.

 

I mean CB's are running around chasing WR's, LB's are blitzing and covering, safties are darting across the field to make plays and they don't rotate out those players a lot.  But you rotate OL because they might get tired???  

 

Seems weird.   

[chad72]

17 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Does OL really get that tired?  

 

I mean if you run a bunch of screens I could see that happening.  But they don't move that much during most plays.

 

I mean CB's are running around chasing WR's, LB's are blitzing and covering, safties are darting across the field to make plays and they don't rotate out those players a lot.  But you rotate OL because they might get tired???  

 

Seems weird.   

 

Bodies are built differently for OL and they have to go at it against 250-300 lb plus DL constantly, and go after faster LBs as well. It is like getting tired after doing lots of weights and bench pressing, as opposed to getting tired after working the ellipticals and treadmills like the DBs and LBs do, a different kind of tired, I suppose.

[lollygagger8]

As many injuries as the Colts have on O-Line, he might actually be forced to swap linemen in and out. 

[PrincetonTiger]

56 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Does OL really get that tired?  

 

I mean if you run a bunch of screens I could see that happening.  But they don't move that much during most plays.

 

I mean CB's are running around chasing WR's, LB's are blitzing and covering, safties are darting across the field to make plays and they don't rotate out those players a lot.  But you rotate OL because they might get tired???  

 

Seems weird.   

Yes

[Bronco]

I'm a friend of Guge's....he is a fantastic Coach...Real technical expert teacher,. Players love him. That * who wrote the Patriot article is stupid! Josh was bringing Guge to the Colts because he knew he was a great coach. He was one of his first position choices. Who knew better that Josh Guge's ability? The Colts are lucky! The Pats won the super bowl with him his first year with an  OL with many injuries. His philosophy is NOT to rotate line man. Injuries caused the need for rotation! In his second year the Pats' line was destroyed even more with injuries. He was grabbing bodies from the stands to play on the OL. He did a wonderful job with what he had. But Dante wanted to return to coaching so they didn't renew Guge's contract. He became a scapegoat....

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

The only thing i can see being a problem is if he swaps a player that is a better run blocker with a guy thats better pass protection. Maybe a tip off to defense? Not sure, always heard continuity is key, but if the depth is there without drop off, 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

I'm a friend of Guge's....he is a fantastic Coach...Real technical expert teacher,. Players love him. That * who wrote the Patriot article is stupid! Josh was bringing Guge to the Colts because he knew he was a great coach. He was one of his first position choices. Who knew better that Josh Guge's ability? The Colts are lucky! The Pats won the super bowl with him his first year with an  OL with many injuries. His philosophy is NOT to rotate line man. Injuries caused the need for rotation! In his second year the Pats' line was destroyed even more with injuries. He was grabbing bodies from the stands to play on the OL. He did a wonderful job with what he had. But Dante wanted to return to coaching so they didn't renew Guge's contract. He became a scapegoat....

not saying you're full of  it, but why would a dude who has a silent G in the middle of their last name, go by the nickname Guges'?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Does OL really get that tired?  

 

I mean if you run a bunch of screens I could see that happening.  But they don't move that much during most plays.

 

I mean CB's are running around chasing WR's, LB's are blitzing and covering, safties are darting across the field to make plays and they don't rotate out those players a lot.  But you rotate OL because they might get tired???  

 

Seems weird.   

 

These guys are pushing 250-350 lbs guys who are coming full bore at them almost every play... in many instances, if they succeed in that, they're running down the field to try to put their body on someone else.... I'd say OL is arguably the most grueling position to play in the NFL.

[PrincetonTiger]

24 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

These guys are pushing 250-350 lbs guys who are coming full bore at them almost every play... in many instances, if they succeed in that, they're running down the field to try to put their body on someone else.... I'd say OL is arguably the most grueling position to play in the NFL.

[Coffeedrinker]

20 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

NCF 

  I am a former C/G who also was a HS OL Assistant  

   I broke down Game film and OL play for most of my life

I;m sorry Princeton I find it hard to believe that you have broke down film of oline play most of your life and you have not seen how important continuity is to the offensive line.

 

The offensive line is one of those situations where the whole truly can be greater than the sum of it's parts because continuity is so important .  You get guys who play together for an extended period of time and they know exactly how the other guy is going to see things and react, everyone becomes that much more effective.

 

Now, i do agree with continuity does not have to be limited to 5 guys, there is no reason continuity cannot be achieved with 6-7 or even 8 lineman.  But that is pushing it and it takes a long time.

 

But to dismiss continuity as not that important is ridiculous.  Lack on teams establishing continuity ( Mudd had a great article on this back in 2008/2009 I don't quite remember) for various reasons is one of the reasons why QBs are getting sacked/hit more.

[PrincetonTiger]

41 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I;m sorry Princeton I find it hard to believe that you have broke down film of oline play most of your life and you have not seen how important continuity is to the offensive line.

 

The offensive line is one of those situations where the whole truly can be greater than the sum of it's parts because continuity is so important .  You get guys who play together for an extended period of time and they know exactly how the other guy is going to see things and react, everyone becomes that much more effective.

 

Now, i do agree with continuity does not have to be limited to 5 guys, there is no reason continuity cannot be achieved with 6-7 or even 8 lineman.  But that is pushing it and it takes a long time.

 

But to dismiss continuity as not that important is ridiculous.  Lack on teams establishing continuity ( Mudd had a great article on this back in 2008/2009 I don't quite remember) for various reasons is one of the reasons why QBs are getting sacked/hit more.

The game has moved past Mudd and as I said before there are HS and College programs change OL position every play

 

   OL  play is changing

      Some programs do not use 3 Point stances(except C)

 

 

Which do you want a coach playing the top 5 guys each week or one that plays the 5 guys who were #1 in TC

[Coffeedrinker]

38 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The game has moved past Mudd and as I said before there are HS and College programs change OL position every play

 

   OL  play is changing

      Some programs do not use 3 Point stances(except C)

 

 

Which do you want a coach playing the top 5 guys each week or one that plays the 5 guys who were #1 in TC

The game has not moved past Mudd.

 

And the fact that some HS and college programs are doing it does not make it correct.  That is one of the problems is many lineman come to the NFL without having the proper technique and skills to compete right away.

 

And I want the coach playing the top 5 guys that give the team the chance to win.  If that changes every week then the coaching staff is not doing their job.  A lineman needs to know exactly what the guy next to him is going to be doing in any situation, the only way to know that is be playing next to each other for an extended period of time.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The game has not moved past Mudd.

 

And the fact that some HS and college programs are doing it does not make it correct.  That is one of the problems is many lineman come to the NFL without having the proper technique and skills to compete right away.

 

And I want the coach playing the top 5 guys that give the team the chance to win.  If that changes every week then the coaching staff is not doing their job.  A lineman needs to know exactly what the guy next to him is going to be doing in any situation, the only way to know that is be playing next to each other for an extended period of time.

 

 

This is the game of football and that is the trend

 

 

  

[Coffeedrinker]

7 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

This is the game of football and that is the trend

 

 

  

Just because a few misinformed coaches at the HS and college level are doing it does not make it a trend.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

Just because a few misinformed coaches at the HS and college level are doing it does not make it a trend.

Okay 

  If someone doesn’t believe like you they are misinformed 

    It doesn’t work that way 

[Coffeedrinker]

10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Okay 

  If someone doesn’t believe like you they are misinformed 

    It doesn’t work that way 

No, there are a lot of people who don't believe things like I do and they are not misinformed.  I will say, assuming one says something that they didn't say is not a very effective debate tactic.

 

They are misinformed because it has not been done successfully (that is based on the major college level, there is no way I would have any idea if it's been done successfully at the HS level or div II and Div III).

 

They are misinformed because it is not fixing the problem of poor blocking, it's just trying to cover it up while missing one of the crucial aspects of line play.  

 

It's misinformed because it does not take into account the overall picture of an offensive game plan.

 

It's misinformed because it is dumbing things down for the lineman... why should they work at getting better and a particular aspect of blocking?  They will send someone else in for that play.

 

It's misinformed because it leads to things like an all around guard being considered a top 5 draft pick.  Not because he's the greatest guard prospect to ever come to the NFL but because teams are so starved for blockers that can do it all with proper technique they are willing to jump on anyone they can find.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

No, there are a lot of people who don't believe things like I do and they are not misinformed.  I will say, assuming one says something that they didn't say is not a very effective debate tactic.

 

They are misinformed because it has not been done successfully (that is based on the major college level, there is no way I would have any idea if it's been done successfully at the HS level or div II and Div III).

 

They are misinformed because it is not fixing the problem of poor blocking, it's just trying to cover it up while missing one of the crucial aspects of line play.  

 

It's misinformed because it does not take into account the overall picture of an offensive game plan.

 

It's misinformed because it is dumbing things down for the lineman... why should they work at getting better and a particular aspect of blocking?  They will send someone else in for that play.

 

It's misinformed because it leads to things like an all around guard being considered a top 5 draft pick.  Not because he's the greatest guard prospect to ever come to the NFL but because teams are so starved for blockers that can do it all with proper technique they are willing to jump on anyone they can find.

Okay that is your opinion 

 

  Rotation and fluidity in the OL is because of the O Gameplan and Spread O based off of NFL schemes

 

    I am a disciple of the Wing T Offense and coached in it and I Offenses with very traditional blocking schemes and Some of the OL changes I see I hate

[superrep1967]

On 3/7/2018 at 12:20 PM, 21isSuperman said:

Everything I've read about OL play says continuity among the players is one of the biggest factors leading to success.  If he does like to rotate players in a game, I'd be a little wary of it.  I suppose it's hard to know until we actually see it on the field, but this doesn't go in line with what I've come to know about OL play

Right, because you have to build cohesion on the line and they have to be able to communicate. 

[Coltfreak]

He is a lame duck coach unless he does a great job.    He was not a Reich hire so there is no reason to believe he will absolutely be here after a yr 

 

Same as with Pagano and Ballard.   OC was hired ahead of time and it will be up to Frank next yr

 

 

i think it was all planned by Hoodie and the panty waste Mcdick to hire a bad OC and then leave knowing Irsay would keep him no matter what.     Ok the last part was sarcasm.   The rest I believe 

[jet1968]

I just hope it is alot better then the last couple of years

[hoosierhawk]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:00 PM, Coltfreak said:

He is a lame duck coach unless he does a great job.    He was not a Reich hire so there is no reason to believe he will absolutely be here after a yr 

 

Same as with Pagano and Ballard.   OC was hired ahead of time and it will be up to Frank next yr

 

 

i think it was all planned by Hoodie and the panty waste Mcdick to hire a bad OC and then leave knowing Irsay would keep him no matter what.     Ok the last part was sarcasm.   The rest I believe 

He is the OL coach not the OC.

[coltsfeva]

On 3/7/2018 at 12:38 PM, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I am ok with rotating during a game if the talent is similar, and not going crazy with it. It can get some experience to players who may need it. When the OL is rolling I wouldn't touch it though. 

  Another reason to avoid doing it is, keeping opposing defenses from having opportunities to switch their personnel.

[Coltfreak]

13 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

He is the OL coach not the OC.

Of course I knew that but

Thanks for the clarification