Hilton's stats among Marv's and Reggie's

[indyagent17]

11 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Marvin got consistently shut out in the playoffs. 

Its time we finally get a true #2 receiver Moncrief is just not panning out

[Narcosys]

47 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am sorry you cant see the truth because of your narrow minded opinion. You look at the playoffs games where they won you will notice some pretty impressive numbers from Harrison. The games where the whole offense didn't play well or were shut down common sense will show his numbers were down.

You can diss all you want to on the second best receiver in history all you care to, but I don't buy it.

Its funny you say I'm narrow minded because you assume I'm only looking at losses, and then mention his great numbers in wins...unfortunately the numbers are not in your favour, we lost 9/16 playoff games that he played in. 

 

Of those 7 games we won, he only had 1, maybe 2, impressive games.

 

2004 vs Den: 7 rec, 133 yds, 2 td

2004 @ kc: 6 rec, 98 yds, 0 td

2005 vs Den: 4 for 51, 0 td

2007 vs kc: 2 for 48, 0 td

          @ Bal: 4 for 45, 0 td

          vs NE: 4 for 41, 0 td

          vs Chi: 5 for 59, 0 td

 

You were saying?

 

[Narcosys]

17 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Its time we finally get a true #2 receiver Moncrief is just not panning out

What's that got to do with Marvin?

[Finball]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am sorry you cant see the truth because of your narrow minded opinion. You look at the playoffs games where they won you will notice some pretty impressive numbers from Harrison. The games where the whole offense didn't play well or were shut down common sense will show his numbers were down.

You can diss all you want to on the second best receiver in history all you care to, but I don't buy it.

 

Harrison was awesome but he's not the 2nd best receiver in history.

 

And Harrison did have bigger drop off in playoff production compared to his regular season production than Wayne did for example.

[Finball]

double post

[Aaron86]

Give TY a healthy luck the last two years and his stats would even be better. Not to mention he and luck are the only consistent playmakers we had on Offence....

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Its funny you say I'm narrow minded because you assume I'm only looking at losses, and then mention his great numbers in wins...unfortunately the numbers are not in your favour, we lost 9/16 playoff games that he played in. 

 

Of those 7 games we won, he only had 1, maybe 2, impressive games.

 

2004 vs Den: 7 rec, 133 yds, 2 td

2004 @ kc: 6 rec, 98 yds, 0 td

2005 vs Den: 4 for 51, 0 td

2007 vs kc: 2 for 48, 0 td

          @ Bal: 4 for 45, 0 td

          vs NE: 4 for 41, 0 td

          vs Chi: 5 for 59, 0 td

 

You were saying?

 

In case you overlooked things like Manning going to all the other receivers and TEs then live with your opinion.

You want to dwell on just Harrison not having big numbers without looking at how the Colts played in general in those games.

I seen to recall one playoff game where the patriots got away with everything but raping Harrison on the field and that lead to Polian razing hell about the rules being enforced. 

[indyagent17]

13 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

What's that got to do with Marvin?

Dude, this is about the three WR's Hilton disappears a lot. I cant believe you had a hard time figuring out what I meant

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Harrison was awesome but he's not the 2nd best receiver in history.

That is your opinion. Just because he wasn't a diva quit overlooking him.

Harrison holds 33 NFL records right now.

[Myles]

14 hours ago, CR91 said:

6 year stats for TY Hilton

 

431 catches 6.827 yards receiving 15.4 average  yardage per catch 34 tds

 

6 year stats for Reggie

 

390 catches 5,474 yards receiving 13.88 average yardage per catch 37 tds

 

6 year stats for Marv

 

522 catches 7,078 yards receiving 13.44 average yardage per catch 62 tds

 

Are we ever gonna look at Hilton in the same light as Marv and Reggie? 

 

 

 

Not unless the team starts to win.

[Finball]

25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That is your opinion. Just because he wasn't a diva quit overlooking him.

Harrison holds 33 NFL records right now.

 

You're the one with an unpopular opinion in here.

 

I'm aware of how many records he has. Doesn't make him the 2nd best receiver of all time.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Finball said:

 

You're the one with an unpopular opinion in here.

 

I'm aware of how many records he has. Doesn't make him the 2nd best receiver of all time.

You said the key word. Opinion.

Would I be wrong if I said Tim Brown was as good as Jerry Rice?  He was as good just didn't have the QBs to give him the numbers.

The years that Harrison played with Manning minus the last two yeas taken away with health issues there was not a receiver who matched his production, not even Rice.

[Finball]

55 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You said the key word. Opinion.

Would I be wrong if I said Tim Brown was as good as Jerry Rice?  He was as good just didn't have the QBs to give him the numbers.

The years that Harrison played with Manning minus the last two yeas taken away with health issues there was not a receiver who matched his production, not even Rice.

 

Rice and Brown had comparable seasons late in their careers, which were seasons #17, #18 and #19 for Rice. Brown retired after season #17. Rice had basically two HOF careers, if we were to split his career in half. And he did have very good production when 49ers starting QBs were out with injuries. His longevity pushes him ahead of everyone else.

 

There aren't many receiver who have been in as favorable situation as WR as Harrison was during those years, playing all of his prime with one of the best QB ever to play the game.

 

On raw production, Harrison probably had the best 9-year stretch (98-06) for WR ever in raw production. But they should be adjusted for era. Harrison had couple of hunderd yards more in that stretch than Rice did in his first 9 seasons.

 

But Harrison was about 1300 yards better than next receiver between 98-06. Rice beat the next best WR by 2200 yards (or about the difference between Marvin and Rod Smith, who had the 5th most yards in that tretch). Both had fairly similar edge in catches to #2 guy, Harrison with slighlt edge to Harrison. Harrison had 108 TDs 98-06, next best WR had 102. Rice had 118 TDs in his first 9 seasons. Next guy on the list had 65. #3 had 62. He almost had more TDs than the best and second best receiver combined.

 

Moss' best 9-year stretch comes pretty close to Harrisons. Harrison had one more TD and about 1000 more yards. The latter is relatively big difference but they had much larger difference in the quality of quarterbacks. Moss had only 2-3 seasons with a QB who was on Peyton's level.

[Four2itus]

41 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

You're the one with an unpopular opinion in here.

 

Wait....popularity matters?

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

Harrison was awesome but he's not the 2nd best receiver in history...

 

Great thing....opinions. Mine is in disagreement with yours.

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, indyagent17 said:

Dude, this is about the three WR's Hilton disappears a lot. I cant believe you had a hard time figuring out what I meant

Moncrief has nothing to do with our discussion about Marvin. 

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

In case you overlooked things like Manning going to all the other receivers and TEs then live with your opinion.

You want to dwell on just Harrison not having big numbers without looking at how the Colts played in general in those games.

I seen to recall one playoff game where the patriots got away with everything but raping Harrison on the field and that lead to Polian razing hell about the rules being enforced. 

 

Stop moving the goal post friend, you said he was great in the games we won. You were wrong, own it and move on. I'm not saying he isn't great, only that he disappeared in the playoffs; just like you claim TY disappears. I could move the goal posts in that argument and contextual every little detail just like you are doing now. 

[crazycolt1]

49 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Rice and Brown had comparable seasons late in their careers, which were seasons #17, #18 and #19 for Rice. Brown retired after season #17. Rice had basically two HOF careers, if we were to split his career in half. And he did have very good production when 49ers starting QBs were out with injuries. His longevity pushes him ahead of everyone else.

 

There aren't many receiver who have been in as favorable situation as WR as Harrison was during those years, playing all of his prime with one of the best QB ever to play the game.

 

On raw production, Harrison probably had the best 9-year stretch (98-06) for WR ever in raw production. But they should be adjusted for era. Harrison had couple of hunderd yards more in that stretch than Rice did in his first 9 seasons.

 

But Harrison was about 1300 yards better than next receiver between 98-06. Rice beat the next best WR by 2200 yards (or about the difference between Marvin and Rod Smith, who had the 5th most yards in that tretch). Both had fairly similar edge in catches to #2 guy, Harrison with slighlt edge to Harrison. Harrison had 108 TDs 98-06, next best WR had 102. Rice had 118 TDs in his first 9 seasons. Next guy on the list had 65. #3 had 62. He almost had more TDs than the best and second best receiver combined.

 

Moss' best 9-year stretch comes pretty close to Harrisons. Harrison had one more TD and about 1000 more yards. The latter is relatively big difference but they had much larger difference in the quality of quarterbacks. Moss had only 2-3 seasons with a QB who was on Peyton's level.

One of the things to keep in mind was the size of Marvin Harrison. He was shorter and lighter than any receiver you mentioned. Rice-6-2.  Brown-6-0  Smith-6-0  Moss-6-4  Harrison- he was listed at 6-0 but anyone who met him knew that was no true. I met him 2 time. Once at the training camp at Rose Hulman the other was at the RCA dome outside when he was on his way to his car.  If I had to estimate his size I would say 5-10 and maybe 170 lbs. He was a small guy for a football player. His small frame contributed to his injuries that shortened his career.

We all may have different opinions on who was the best. Rice no doubt holds that crown but pound for pound Marvin was the best that ever played.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

 

Stop moving the goal post friend, you said he was great in the games we won. You were wrong, own it and move on. I'm not saying he isn't great, only that he disappeared in the playoffs; just like you claim TY disappears. I could move the goal posts in that argument and contextual every little detail just like you are doing now. 

I have an opinion. I stated it and nothing you have to say changes it.

Take it or leave it.

By the way, those little details are facts, not opinions.

[Narcosys]

17 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have an opinion. I stated it and nothing you have to say changes it.

Take it or leave it.

By the way, those little details are facts, not opinions.

But you are moving the goal post. You make a statement, get proven wrong, then make a different statement trying to justify the previous one. 

That's called moving the goal post and is a logical fallacy.

Marvin disappeared in nearly all playoff games, regardless of why, he did. If he was able to perform in the season, why didn't he in the playoffs. Manning has the exact same stigma when it comes to the playoffs. Nobody is breaking down every single play to try and come up with an excuse, after awhile it becomes a trend. 

 

That's exactly why you have your belief about TY, but I don't see you breaking down the minutiae on his games. Hypocritical, double standard much?

 

The fact that you are saying that nothing I can say, with facts to support it, will change your mind, shows how grossly narrow and close minded you really are. 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

But you are moving the goal post. You make a statement, get proven wrong, then make a different statement trying to justify the previous one. 

That's called moving the goal post and is a logical fallacy.

Marvin disappeared in nearly all playoff games, regardless of why, he did. If he was able to perform in the season, why didn't he in the playoffs. Manning has the exact same stigma when it comes to the playoffs. Nobody is breaking down every single play to try and come up with an excuse, after awhile it becomes a trend. 

 

That's exactly why you have your belief about TY, but I don't see you breaking down the minutiae on his games. Hypocritical, double standard much?

 

The fact that you are saying that nothing I can say, with facts to support it, will change your mind, shows how grossly narrow and close minded you really are. 

 

 

Nah, it's not that complicated.

I have an opinion you don't agree with so all you want is to make it an argument. I listed the facts as to why Harrison didn't have the numbers but that is not good enough for you.

So like I said, take it or leave it.

Yes Marvin's numbers were low in the playoffs but so was the whole teams. Sorry you don't want to take that into consideration.

Diss on one of the best receiver that ever played all you want, it's nothing but your opinion.

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Nah, it's not that complicated.

I have an opinion you don't agree with so all you want is to make it an argument. I listed the facts as to why Harrison didn't have the numbers but that is not good enough for you.

So like I said, take it or leave it.

Yes Marvin's numbers were low in the playoffs but so was the whole teams. Sorry you don't want to take that into consideration.

Diss on one of the best receiver that ever played all you want, it's nothing but your opinion.

You disagreed with me first in saying Marvin didn't disappear. You want to start an argument, you better have good facts to back your claim. You don't. Multiple times now I have proven you wrong, you resort to moving the goal post, being a hypocrite, and now saying that it's your opinion and that I can't change it. Sorry, but opinions don't win debates, you quite clearly lost this one. 

 

You want to diss on TY, but not attribute any reasons as to why he did. Your arguments a joke dude, and it's on full display.

[indyagent17]

2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Moncrief has nothing to do with our discussion about Marvin. 

This post is about three wide receivers and it was mentioned that HILTON has games where he disappears so that will HELP HILTON.  This is not just about Harrison, its about HILTON!

[Narcosys]

27 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

This post is about three wide receivers and it was mentioned that HILTON has games where he disappears so that will HELP HILTON.  This is not just about Harrison, its about HILTON!

A, B conversation...C your way out.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Narcosys said:

You disagreed with me first in saying Marvin didn't disappear. You want to start an argument, you better have good facts to back your claim. You don't. Multiple times now I have proven you wrong, you resort to moving the goal post, being a hypocrite, and now saying that it's your opinion and that I can't change it. Sorry, but opinions don't win debates, you quite clearly lost this one. 

 

You want to diss on TY, but not attribute any reasons as to why he did. Your arguments a joke dude, and it's on full display.

 The only thing on display here is your an argumentative dude that disrespects any opinion but your own.

[Narcosys]

12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 The only thing on display here is your an argumentative dude that disrespects any opinion but your own.

No, I just don't respect arguments based on opinions, which don't man squat, when the facts prove otherwise. Furthermore, disagreement is not the same as disrespect, don't take it so personal. 

 

My argument has been consistent, yours has not. You seem to be the argumentative one.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

No, I just don't respect arguments based on opinions, which don't man squat, when the facts prove otherwise. Furthermore, disagreement is not the same as disrespect, don't take it so personal. 

 

My argument has been consistent, yours has not. You seem to be the argumentative one.

Not today, find someone else. Now have yourself a beautiful evening.

[Happy2BeHere]

If you look at this clearly from a stats only perspective then it’s absolutely Marvin not even close really.

 

if you are looking at this from a personality and what the players did for the team in addition to their numbers on the field then it’s Reggie all day long.

 

Hilton is great no doubt but he is number 3 on this list and it’s pretty easy to see why IMO

[ty4atd]

Marvin easily, and to the people saying TY would have better numbers with better weapons around him aren't thinking about how Hilton also wouldn't get as many targets. After Wayne emerged for the Colts Marvin never got more than 150 targets after averaging over 170 the 3 years before and 112 catches, and that was before the 2004 rules changes making it easier to throw. This year the only games TY had a big day he got over 10 targets he wouldn't get that as much with a "Wayne" across from him.

[Rackeen305]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 12:34 PM, Kyle said:

Every time I think about Marvin Harrison, this play pops into my head.  Best...Catch...Ever!

 

I signed in, just to like this post. This was in my opinion, the most difficult catch I've ever seen. The OBJ catch was special, But all things considered (against PATS, tipped ball, twist your body, secure the catch, tap 2 feet in for a TD catch) this Marvin catch was just amazing, and reminds me of what every little kid tries to do while playing backyard football.

 

BTW I truly believe that the hardest record that will probably never be broken, is his 143 catches in one season 02'. Second closest is AB/JJones with 136 in 15'.

 

1) The WR has to know how to catch

2) Your QB has to at least be decent

[colt18]

On 3/6/2018 at 8:42 AM, WoolMagnet said:

Marvin.  And its not that close

for me.

i think part of this thread shows that many Colt fans didnt witness the Marvin years. Us older farts do, but many here were in diapers.

and the think his knee trouble at the end skewed the perspective of some.  Unfortunately, most people remember the last thing they saw.  I just dont think Reggie or TY put the FEAR into DBs like Marvin. All are solid, but Marvin was on another level (at least in these eyes)

I'm 23 and I remember the late 00's of Harrison's career. He was awesome. He was also pretty injury prone his last few years in the league, and had got his butt handed to him when we played the Chargers in '07. 

 

I love Marv and while he was insanely productive in scoring TDs during the regular season, he's only scored two TDs in the playoffs ever. You knew Hilton was a star when he stole KC's heart in the wild card a few years ago. As of now it's Harrison >>>> Wayne > Hilton

 

I just wish Harrison would've balled in the playoffs more.

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, colt18 said:

I'm 23 and I remember the late 00's of Harrison's career. He was awesome. He was also pretty injury prone his last few years in the league, and had got his butt handed to him when we played the Chargers in '07. 

 

I love Marv and while he was insanely productive in scoring TDs during the regular season, he's only scored two TDs in the playoffs ever. You knew Hilton was a star when he stole KC's heart in the wild card a few years ago. As of now it's Harrison >>>> Wayne > Hilton

 

I just wish Harrison would've balled in the playoffs more.

His play was down his last two years due to injury. In 2006 he had 95 catches for 1,366 yds and 12 TDs.

He only played 5 games in 2007.

[WoolMagnet]

33 minutes ago, colt18 said:

I'm 23 and I remember the late 00's of Harrison's career. He was awesome. He was also pretty injury prone his last few years in the league, and had got his butt handed to him when we played the Chargers in '07. 

 

I love Marv and while he was insanely productive in scoring TDs during the regular season, he's only scored two TDs in the playoffs ever. You knew Hilton was a star when he stole KC's heart in the wild card a few years ago. As of now it's Harrison >>>> Wayne > Hilton

 

I just wish Harrison would've balled in the playoffs more.

All the stats stunk in the playoffs.  Manning, reggie included. You also gave to remember that the playoff teams (league best) focused on taking marvin out of the game.  And alot of those games were Belichek.  Marvin was our only scary offensive threat. Dallas Clark was productive, but i wouldnt call him scary.

Marvins early career was CRAZY.  He was unstoppable. And his yards could have  been higher but he many times went down to protect himself.   he was never the same after that knee injury.

i'm no TY hater, i just seem to remember Marvin being a more scary weapon.

[Tsarquise]

3 hours ago, colt18 said:

I'm 23 and I remember the late 00's of Harrison's career. He was awesome. He was also pretty injury prone his last few years in the league, and had got his butt handed to him when we played the Chargers in '07. 

 

I love Marv and while he was insanely productive in scoring TDs during the regular season, he's only scored two TDs in the playoffs ever. You knew Hilton was a star when he stole KC's heart in the wild card a few years ago. As of now it's Harrison >>>> Wayne > Hilton

 

I just wish Harrison would've balled in the playoffs more.

He didn't play in the 07 Chargers game. 

[Tsarquise]

Marvin was clearly the best of the three.  His stats show it, and his play shows it as well. He had glue on his hands, and his routes were amazing. 

[TdungyW/12]

On 3/5/2018 at 9:03 PM, CR91 said:

6 year stats for TY Hilton

 

431 catches 6.827 yards receiving 15.4 average  yardage per catch 34 tds

 

6 year stats for Reggie

 

390 catches 5,474 yards receiving 13.88 average yardage per catch 37 tds

 

6 year stats for Marv

 

522 catches 7,078 yards receiving 13.44 average yardage per catch 62 tds

 

Are we ever gonna look at Hilton in the same light as Marv and Reggie? 

 

 

 

Man I loved Harrison ..... Wayne too but, Marvin was something different. 

 

I hope he turns out half of what they were and we will be alright! But, that being said he is his own man and I hope he carved out his own name. 

 

Those stats make make it seem like he’s in good company though. 

[BOTT]

On 3/7/2018 at 9:07 PM, WoolMagnet said:

All the stats stunk in the playoffs.  Manning, reggie included. You also gave to remember that the playoff teams (league best) focused on taking marvin out of the game.  And alot of those games were Belichek.  Marvin was our only scary offensive threat. Dallas Clark was productive, but i wouldnt call him scary.

Marvins early career was CRAZY.  He was unstoppable. And his yards could have  been higher but he many times went down to protect himself.   he was never the same after that knee injury.

i'm no TY hater, i just seem to remember Marvin being a more scary weapon.

Dalllas, Reggie and Edge weren't scary?  That's a new one.

[colt18]

On 3/8/2018 at 12:21 AM, Tsarquise said:

He didn't play in the 07 Chargers game. 

07 Divisional round

[Tsarquise]

8 hours ago, colt18 said:

07 Divisional round

Oh, yeah, I was thinking regular season. 

[Dark Superman]

Reggie and Marvin got to play many years together with Manning as their QB. Reggie even had a few with Luck. Hilton's been the only consistent WR we had on this team since 2012. Mad props to Hilton. He's done a lot with a lot less around him.