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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But when other people jump on you to tell you, not that they disagree with your opinion, but that how you formed your opinion is wrong, it gets annoying.  I get it.

 

Some people are very good at making quick judgments on very little information and being correct.  Others need to research things,examine data, and basically have the answers spoon fed to them shouldn't criticize how others who don't do that make judgments.  Some people have a process that isn't suited to others.  Big deal. 

You mean like coaches putting together a game plan or doctors making a diagnosis or lawyers looking to prove their case.  Yeah you are right all of those professions have answers "spoon fed" to them.  If you are making quick reactionary judgements then you have no process.

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18 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

You didn't know that salt is composed of Sodium Chloride when you were born, you learned that from somewhere.  That last sentence might be the most unintelligent phrase I have ever read.

 

I can't believe you had to post this, but it's absolutely true.

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The plagiarizers know who they are, and are very defensive...Lol..I have had similar thoughts..People quote an NFL insider word for word after looking something up and act like it's their original thought..Why I like to watch players and form my own opinions on them instead of just repeating what I've read, or whats popular..

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2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

The plagiarizers know who they are and are very defensive...Lol..I have had similar thoughts..People quote an NFL insider word for word after looking something up and act like it's their original thought..Why I like to watch players and form my own opinions on them instead of just repeating what I've read or whats popular..

 

Like who?

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8 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

The plagiarizers know who they are, and are very defensive...Lol..I have had similar thoughts..People quote an NFL insider word for word after looking something up and act like it's their original thought..Why I like to watch players and form my own opinions on them instead of just repeating what I've read, or whats popular..

That is some passive aggression there, hope you were not referring to me because I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

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58 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Right.  By using more granular data. 

 

But If I watched the game, I would have seen the facts as they occurred at the time.  I've got all the granular data right in front of me.  That's knowledge.

 

People who quote RB stats, do so to try to know if the player is good, or to try to make a point, but they weren't there when the facts were created, so they don't know..  And yes, most of the time on this forum its to support an opinion.

Because of my background I use stats as evidence 

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31 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

You mean like coaches putting together a game plan or doctors making a diagnosis or lawyers looking to prove their case.  Yeah you are right all of those professions have answers "spoon fed" to them.  If you are making quick reactionary judgements then you have no process.

 

Exactly. It's very circumstantial. Sometimes you just know and other times you have a feeling but want to be sure. I would hope people don't make snap judgements by default.


Regardless, this isn't Jeopardy...there is no timer and no bonus for speed.

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Real knowledge is not looking up the answer to something to give the illusion that you are smarter than you really are. Unfortunately, anyone can appear like a genius if they do research first.

Unfortunately, anyone can appear to be a dumb * if they think they know it all and that everyone else knows nothing.

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1 hour ago, Dilger85 said:

You like Jared are missing the point.  The person writing the article still had to complete research for the article so that person wouldn't have that knowledge unless they researched it first.  I cannot believe I am trying to explain this to people.  The rest of your drivel is baseless and makes no sense.

 

I'm not getting into a philosophical discussion about the definition of knowledge.  As far as internet forums........

 

 Assume there are two different kinds of people.  People who "know" things with little information, and people who need gobs of info before they "know" something.  The people who need gobs of info don't have the ability to know things with little info, so they assume the people with little info don't know anything and have no basis for their "knowledge".  And then they call them out for it.

 

Personally, I admire the person who "knows" things based on very little info, not the person who completed extensive research.  The latter is somehow accepted as smarter.  It comes down to what it the correct answer is, not the process. 

  

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Because of my background I use stats as evidence 

Totally agree.  I have a background in stats and modeling.  All we're trying to do with it is predict the future.

 

Its not science.  Its commonly called a scientific process, but it isn't. That's just a marketing process to tell readers that a conclusion based on math and stats is smarter. 

 

In science, you prove something.  It has to exist first, then you figure it out.   When you're predicting the future, you can't prove something before it happens.   

 

Just because stats uses math and computers, it doesn't mean its science or any smarter than using unexplainable intuition.  And neither one is real knowledge.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Totally agree.  I have a background in stats and modeling.  All we're trying to do with it is predict the future.

 

Its not science.  Its commonly called a scientific process, but it isn't. That's just a marketing process to tell readers that a conclusion based on math and stats is smarter. 

 

In science, you prove something.  It has to exist first, then you figure it out.   When you're predicting the future, you can't prove something before it happens.   

 

Just because stats uses math and computers, it doesn't mean its science or any smarter than using unexplainable intuition.  And neither one is real knowledge.

I have a degree in PoliSci with a background in History and had to back up everything with facts and/or evidence for everything 

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John Gruden sure likes him.   And I was very high in him when Pagano got the job.  

Quote


That happened prior to the 2001 season when Trestman joined Gruden’s coaching staff with the Oakland Raiders. Trestman spent three seasons there although just one with Gruden, who left to become the Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ head coach.

 

Trestman was promoted to offensive co-ordinator in ’02 and Oakland led the NFL in total offence (389.8 yards per game) and passing (279.7 per game). As well, quarterback Rich Gannon was named the league MVP.

 

The Raiders advanced to the Super Bowl against Tampa Bay. Gruden’s squad emerged victorious 48-21 but Trestman has never forgotten Gruden remaining true to his word

 

.

 

And he was an extremely successful CFL coach.     

 

So maybe Reich isn't just tapping his gums when he talks about being innovative unpredictable and would consider input from all sources.   Picking the brain of someone exactly like yourself rarely reaps rewards.  It's when you think outside the box and explore new ideas is when you succeed.  

 

Not saying Trestman will be a game changer but the guy really does know offense 

 

that's said I'm extremely happy with this hire. 

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4 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Gotta love the line in The Last Crusade Indiana Jones movie where Harrison Ford lies that Marcus Brody will blend in anywhere, just to confess later to Sean Connery "I made all that up. You know Marcus. He once got lost in his own museum." :) Classic!!!

Yup, that line never gets old even when I know it's coming. 

4 hours ago, buccolts said:

 

Who was that spectacular, promising, Bears QB that Trestman ruined?

Well, I was gonna say Jay Cutler, but he was ruined long before Trestman  was running the show in Chicago. 

4 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown    

   Everything Will Be Okay

I always find comfort in that line like when you scrape your knee, your mom tells ya you'll be fine, & she makes you your favorite meal. Comfort food for lack of a better word. 

1 hour ago, MarquisJ said:

we are getting away from a colts football forum I don’t get on here for this 

Half the reason I come here everyday is for the comic banter & unexpected detours. If I wanted to stay on point, I'd go to a sleep inducing lecture. 

 

I am surprised how so many people went after Jared today. The back & forth between JC & NCF was very entertaining I must say. This is a fan forum after all not the NY Times right? I never expected the subject of plagiarism to come up in a new hire thread, but what the heck, I can roll with it. 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Yup, that line never gets old even when I know it's coming. 

Well, I was gonna say Jay Cutler, but he was ruined long before Trestman  was running the show in Chicago. 

I always find comfort in that line like when you scrape your knee, your mom tells ya you'll be fine, & she makes you your favorite meal. Comfort food for lack of a better word. 

Half the reason I come here everyday is for the comic banter & unexpected detours. If I wanted to stay on point, I'd go to a sleep inducing lecture. 

 

I am surprised how so many people went after Jared today. The back & forth between JC & NCF was very entertaining I must say. This is a fan forum after all not the NY Times right? I never expected the subject of plagiarism to come up in a new hire thread, but what the heck, I can roll with it. 

 

 

 

 

The thing that upset me was being called a “casual” fan 

     I left a Cousin’s wedding early to get home for the draft

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45 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I have a degree in PoliSci with a background in History and had to back up everything with facts and/or evidence for everything 

Expressing "conclusions" about politics or history is more about support for a position than trying to prove something physical, like the composition of table salt.  Sometimes research and knowledge depends upon who wrote the history books. 

 

It bothers me when academia uses the terms polyscience or social science.  Its sounds like they are trying to convince students that the conclusions presented in those classes are as soundly determined as the conclusions formed in physics class.  That's why I temper my enthusiasm when someone starts whipping out a bunch of stats to support a previously made claim.  Science is a very narrow field.  Most every other research is fraught with too much confirmation bias.

 

Telling someone they have no basis for their conclusion is pretty narrow minded, IMO.  It usually just means they have a certain process for forming their opinions and reject the possibility that someone else might have a better way.

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3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The thing that upset me was being called a “casual” fan 

     I left a Cousin’s wedding early to get home for the draft

I respect you PT & so does Jared actually, he just might get slightly frustrated at people who go with the flow while JC wants more of a sense of urgency in new hires since the clock is ticking on Luck & he doesn't want INDY to take another step backward. But, I also know my share of coaches kids too & how they are often even keeled, relaxed, & don't expect dramatic changes overnight. 

 

Casual is never a word I would use to describe you. More like thorough, detailed, smart, & a person who doesn't have a compulsion to dominate any thread, topic, or situation. When something needs to be said, you say it, & move on. I admire that because I'm the exact opposite. I'm longwinded & always chime in even when I probably shouldn't. haha

 

What I'm trying to say here is this: I respect qualities in others I don't have & you have no reason to feel undercut or dismissed by anyone. We all know how intelligent you are & that you are a loyal Colts fan no question. 

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36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Expressing "conclusions" about politics or history is more about support for a position than trying to prove something physical, like the composition of table salt.  Sometimes research and knowledge depends upon who wrote the history books. 

 

It bothers me when academia uses the terms polyscience or social science.  Its sounds like they are trying to convince students that the conclusions presented in those classes are as soundly determined as the conclusions formed in physics class.  That's why I temper my enthusiasm when someone starts whipping out a bunch of stats to support a previously made claim.  Science is a very narrow field.  Most every other research is fraught with too much confirmation bias.

 

Telling someone they have no basis for their conclusion is pretty narrow minded, IMO.  It usually just means they have a certain process for forming their opinions and reject the possibility that someone else might have a better way.

To be in PoliSci you must know both sides but I think you were missing my point

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6 hours ago, IndyD4U said:

Meh, People get too hung up on NFL coaching experience. There are great minds at all levels

One of the things I like with Reich hiring the Chargers' WR coach for OC... he said he learned a lot from him even though he's 20 years younger and was in a subordinate role to Reich in San Diego.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Then he still has a lot of problems as a coach, and he's basically an OC where he doesn't have to take on the HC responsibilities. My point stands. I don't want any of his habits to rub on a young coach that could affect Andrew Luck.

 

Gonna need some longer handles on your next shovel. This is getting sad.

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6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This line of thinking always amuses me. 

Which part? The part that says that, because he coached under Tressman, he is incapable of picking up and incorporating concepts that aren't from outside of Trestmam's purview? Or the part that says that, since he had a CFL stint, he is unfit to coach in the NFL?

 

They're both silly, if not insane.

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7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Which part? The part that says that, because he coached under Tressman, he is incapable of picking up and incorporating concepts that aren't from outside of Trestmam's purview? Or the part that says that, since he had a CFL stint, he is unfit to coach in the NFL?

 

They're both silly, if not insane.

 

Those are both more specific than I was going for. What I'm amused by is the thinking that, if an assistant worked with a bad head coach or coordinator, it means that assistant isn't any good at his job.

 

The old 'he was with Team X, and they sucked, why would anyone hire him?'

 

But obviously, what you point out is just as ridiculous.

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3 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

The plagiarizers know who they are, and are very defensive...Lol..I have had similar thoughts..People quote an NFL insider word for word after looking something up and act like it's their original thought..Why I like to watch players and form my own opinions on them instead of just repeating what I've read, or whats popular..

 

Here's how ridiculous this is getting.

 

You're using the word "plagiarizing" in the wrong way.     You clearly don't even understand what the word means, or how to use it properly.     Superman noted this a several dozen posts ago and you keep right on going.....

 

Nobody is plagerizing.

 

If I cut and pasted a story from NFL.com and I submitted it as MY POST and told everyone here that I wrote it,  then THAT would be plagerizing.     I'd be taking credit for someone else's work.

 

But....

 

If I cut and paste the same story and I write that this is a story from NFL.com and say here's a story from Ian Rapaport, then that is NOT plagerizing.    I'm giving credit to the writer.

 

If someone says here are some stats I found on-line about a certain player,  that's NOT plagerizing.

 

It would be helpful if you're going to use big words if you actually understood what they mean.    Because you don't and you've demonstrated this.      And please don't come back at me telling me how mean and arrogant I am.   Trust me,  if I wanted to be mean an arrogant about this,  I really could have done a number on your right here..

 

But I didn't.     I simply explained what the word means....

 

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28 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

None must be prepared for everything 

  My point of the argument was that if I ever turned in a paper/presentation based my opinion alone I would have been laughed out of the class

 

Anyway, I jumped into this thread because I thought Jared was getting picked on unfairly about why he doesn't want the new coach.  People didn't disagree as much as they said the basis for his opinion didn't pass their level of muster. 

 

Who around here has the ability to be the self-appointed Judge-of-Muster when it comes to how someone else forms their opinions?

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Anyway, I jumped into this thread because I thought Jared was getting picked on unfairly about why he doesn't want the new coach.  People didn't disagree as much as they said the basis for his opinion didn't pass their level of muster. 

 

Who around here has the ability to be the self-appointed Judge-of-Muster when it comes to forming opinions?

No one did or tried to 

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You know what, Jared’s original point was that he didn’t like the hire because he coached with Trestman. How did he know that without researching the guy a little? I got on him for essentially calling out people that look things up because they want to learn more about a subject.

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39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here's how ridiculous this is getting.

 

You're using the word "plagiarizing" in the wrong way.     You clearly don't even understand what the word means, or how to use it properly.     Superman noted this a several dozen posts ago and you keep right on going.....

 

Nobody is plagerizing.

 

If I cut and pasted a story from NFL.com and I submitted it as MY POST and told everyone here that I wrote it,  then THAT would be plagerizing.     I'd be taking credit for someone else's work.

 

But....

 

If I cut and paste the same story and I write that this is a story from NFL.com and say here's a story from Ian Rapaport, then that is NOT plagerizing.    I'm giving credit to the writer.

 

If someone says here are some stats I found on-line about a certain player,  that's NOT plagerizing.

 

It would be helpful if you're going to use big words if you actually understood what they mean.    Because you don't and you've demonstrated this.      And please don't come back at me telling me how mean and arrogant I am.   Trust me,  if I wanted to be mean an arrogant about this,  I really could have done a number on your right here..

 

But I didn't.     I simply explained what the word means....

 

First off I was being sarcastic for the most part ..lol..I actually put that there for you..I knew you would try to come back with some nonsense..Thanks NCF you made me smile..You get the rare dancing flamingo :FlamingoDancing:Keep up the good work...

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Just now, Dilger85 said:

You know what, Jared’s original point was that he didn’t like the hire because he coached with Trestman. How did he know that without researching the guy a little? I got on him for essentially calling out people that look things up because they want to learn more about a subject.

Very true

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