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Report: Toronto Argos' OC Marcus Brady joining the Colts staff


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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I didn't say that, but it makes things deceptive among the forum with who is smarter. Even Superman looks up the vast majority of his stats. If we compared our knowledge without internet aid, it'd be very close to even instead of him being the overwhelming smartest person on the forum.

Who doesn't look up stats from a third party?  Do you memorize them?  Generally, I try to have facts to back up my position on a certain topic.  I tend to need to look things up and complete research in order to make a rational, well informed opinion about something.  What is your issue with people having facts to back up opinions?  For the record, I do remember Marc's stints with the 49ers and Raiders.  He is a WCO coach and a very talented offensive mind.  You see CFL and his time with the Bears and made an asinine assumption that anyone who comes in contact with him will be poisoned.  I could have told you WITHOUT DOING RESEARCH that Trestman is/was a very well respected QB coach and offensive mind but as an adult I like to provide evidence to back up my claims.

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Did I say Trestman ruined a young Bears QB? Quote me if I did. He didn't do a thing while on the Bears though and managed to wear out his welcome in a couple years. Actually made Pagano look good by comparision 

 

As soon as I heard Trestman talk I knew he'd not make it there, unless he was really successful really soon.

BUT, he's not the same person we just hired. They just worked together, and even if Trestman taught Brady, that doesn't mean Brady doesn't have a mind of his own. AND Brady isn't being brought here as a head coach. Trestman had a lot of success as a QB coach/Offensive coach.

 

Nothing to worry about yet. The bridge is still down the road.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For me, I was always taught how bad plagarizing was, and I'm hesitant to look up someone else's work and post it as basically my own facts. It's just a force of habit from high school and college. For example, I don't want to look up a scouting report, basically copy the scouting report word for word as an argument for or against. I wouldn't know anything about that player, it's not my opinion. I feel I should say what I know, unless it's some exact stat like a rank or something similar.

I had to do research and provide evidence to get my degree

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4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I am a mediator in everything I do and I rarely see the need to be negative in public

 

  Learned that from my parents,teachers, and coaches

 

   When you are told you would never run let alone walk one looks at things positive 

I can respect that. 

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2 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

As soon as I heard Trestman talk I knew he'd not make it there, unless he was really successful really soon.

BUT, he's not the same person we just hired. They just worked together, and even if Trestman taught Brady, that doesn't mean Brady doesn't have a mind of his own. AND Brady isn't being brought here as a head coach. Trestman had a lot of success we a QB coach/Offensive coach.

 

Nothing to worry about yet. The bridge is still down the road.

Brady will have 2 guys to go through 

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For me, I was always taught how bad plagarizing was, and I'm hesitant to look up someone else's work and post it as basically my own facts. It's just a force of habit from high school and college. For example, I don't want to look up a scouting report, basically copy the scouting report word for word as an argument for or against. I wouldn't know anything about that player, it's not my opinion. I feel I should say what I know, unless it's some exact stat like a rank or something similar.

 

Looking up stats and info isn't plagiarizing. Posting stats and info isn't passing off someone else's work as your own.

 

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6 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

Who doesn't look up stats from a third party?  Do you memorize them?  Generally, I try to have facts to back up my position on a certain topic.  I tend to need to look things up and complete research in order to make a rational, well informed opinion about something.  What is your issue with people having facts to back up opinions?  For the record, I do remember Marc's stints with the 49ers and Raiders.  He is a WCO coach and a very talented offensive mind.  You see CFL and his time with the Bears and made an asinine assumption that anyone who comes in contact with him will be poisoned.  I could have told you WITHOUT DOING RESEARCH that Trestman is/was a very well respected QB coach and offensive mind but as an adult I like to provide evidence to back up my claims.

I do it for the kids I have known for years

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For me, I was always taught how bad plagarizing was, and I'm hesitant to look up someone else's work and post it as basically my own facts. It's just a force of habit from high school and college. For example, I don't want to look up a scouting report, basically copy the scouting report word for word as an argument for or against. I wouldn't know anything about that player, it's not my opinion. I feel I should say what I know, unless it's some exact stat like a rank or something similar.

It would help if you understood the difference between facts and opinions.  Facts are facts they cannot be stolen.  If you repeat that the temperature was 20 degrees today, you are not plagiarizing the weather man.  Opinions are things like scouting reports which is the opinion of the analyst.  How do you learn anything then?  If you have a problem with people reading viewpoints about a player or completing research then how does someone acquire more knowledge with anything in life?  How do you know what you know?  Do you not see gaining knowledge and being taught things is exactly what research is except that you complete the learning process yourself?  I am generally confused by your rant on researching a topic before you discuss it. 

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So we(fans) are going to denounce a hire because he worked for a coach that might have problems running a locker room

Uh, didn’t we previously hire Joe Philbin..

 

How was he with running the Dolphins locker room? Bueller, Bueller, Incognito...   anyone?

 

 

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My issue isn't people having facts, my issue is that certain posters get overinflated for being extremely intelligent, when in reality, they are just using the internet to tell their side of the debate. Most of us are probably pretty close to the same intelligence level in football with some disagreements here and there, but the internet can make a lot of people seem like geniuses if used right. Then others call others stupid for not doing research, when they didn't know anything about the subject in the first place. The internet can make anyone a genius if used right.

 

6 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

Who doesn't look up stats from a third party?  Do you memorize them?  Generally, I try to have facts to back up my position on a certain topic.  I tend to need to look things up and complete research in order to make a rational, well informed opinion about something.  What is your issue with people having facts to back up opinions?  For the record, I do remember Marc's stints with the 49ers and Raiders.  He is a WCO coach and a very talented offensive mind.  You see CFL and his time with the Bears and made an asinine assumption that anyone who comes in contact with him will be poisoned.  I could have told you WITHOUT DOING RESEARCH that Trestman is/was a very well respected QB coach and offensive mind but as an adult I like to provide evidence to back up my claims.

 

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My issue isn't people having facts, my issue is that certain posters get overinflated for being extremely intelligent, when in reality, they are just using the internet to tell their side of the debate. Most of us are probably pretty close to the same intelligence level in football with some disagreements here and there, but the internet can make a lot of people seem like geniuses if used right. Then others call others stupid for not doing research, when they didn't know anything about the subject in the first place. The internet can make anyone a genius if used right.

 

 

Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but being smart isn't always about what you know off the top of your head, but also knowing how to get to the correct answer. Sometimes it's your imagination that gets you there.

 

I suppose we could denounce anything. I know I can be guilt, but try to keep it in check.

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Funny thread.  A few thoughts:

 

The person with real knowledge writes the internet article.  Reading the article and researching stats is not knowledge.  Knowing the circumstances under which each data point was created is.  With real knowledge, a person doesn't need stats.  Stats are used when you don't have knowledge about something, but desire to form an opinion about it anyway.

 

So, yes, Jared is right about that.  I don't know if he really has real knowledge about Trestman, but neither does anybody else who looked it up on the internet a few minutes ago.

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My issue isn't people having facts, my issue is that certain posters get overinflated for being extremely intelligent, when in reality, they are just using the internet to tell their side of the debate. Most of us are probably pretty close to the same intelligence level in football with some disagreements here and there, but the internet can make a lot of people seem like geniuses if used right. Then others call others stupid for not doing research, when they didn't know anything about the subject in the first place. The internet can make anyone a genius if used right.

 

 

Could you make more assumptions?  First you assume that no one that has responded to you knew that Trestman was an outstanding offensive coach in the NFL before he jumped to the CFL.  Second you assume that every member on this board has the same intelligence level on football.  You have no idea, stop assuming.  No one has called you stupid during this entire discussion.  I told you to do more research which you should.  Increase your understanding and knowledge of a topic before you comment on something and you will find that your take will be better informed and taken to task less.

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2 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but being smart isn't always about what you know off the top of your head, but also knowing how to get to the correct answer. Sometimes it's your imagination that gets you there.

 

I suppose we could denounce anything. I know I can be guilt, but try to keep it in check.

Basically, it gets frustrating when you have to prove your work to people when you know you are right. That's the frustrating thing to me. Someone asks for a link or something. It's not so bad in football, baseball is where it's really horrible. I think I'm done with this thread though. I really have nothing more to say. The hire is what it is.

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22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For me, I was always taught how bad plagarizing was, and I'm hesitant to look up someone else's work and post it as basically my own facts. It's just a force of habit from high school and college. For example, I don't want to look up a scouting report, basically copy the scouting report word for word as an argument for or against. I wouldn't know anything about that player, it's not my opinion. I feel I should say what I know, unless it's some exact stat like a rank or something similar.

You are correct.  Stats are used to justify an opinion already formed.  Knowing the circumstances under which each stat was created is real knowledge.

 

A RB avgs 4.1 yds per carry.  Is that because of a good oline, a defense playing dime because of a QB threat, because he has great balance, great vision,etc. 

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Oh,  what a surprise!

 

Yet another thread starring the one and only Jared Cisneros.     90-something posts and he's got 21 of them.

 

Last week it was a thread with 102 posts and he had 29 of them.

 

And all of them --- both threads --- were Jared telling everyone else that he's right,  and they're wrong.

 

Jared....    you have yet to be right even once in these monster threads.     I don't know why you haven't figured that out yet,  but not once.     You have this habit of posting first without checking facts.   

 

You leap before you look.     And when you do look,  you realize there's no safe place for you to land.    So, it's everyone else is wrong,  but not you.

 

I hope someday you'll grow out of this behavior.    But so far,  it's been wash, rinse, repeat.     This is not promising.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Basically, it gets frustrating when you have to prove your work to people when you know you are right. That's the frustrating thing to me. Someone asks for a link or something. It's not so bad in football, baseball is where it's really horrible. I think I'm done with this thread though. I really have nothing more to say. The hire is what it is.

 

Oh, Dear God.........      :facepalm:

 

You still haven't figured out the next time you're right will be the first.....

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You are correct.  Stats are used to justify an opinion already formed.  Knowing the circumstances under which each stat was created is real knowledge.

 

A RB avgs 4.1 yds per carry.  Is that because of a good oline, a defense playing dime because of a QB threat, etc. 

You are completely wrong.  Using only the stats that back up your argument is confirmation bias, please do not equate the numbers with a human behavior.  Numbers generally don't lie there has to be human manipulation involved. 

 

The reasons you list for the RB averaging the yards per carry are issues that can be explained by the use of statistics as well.  All of that would factor in to the judgement of the yards per carry of said running back.

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6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Basically, it gets frustrating when you have to prove your work to people when you know you are right. That's the frustrating thing to me. Someone asks for a link or something. It's not so bad in football, baseball is where it's really horrible. I think I'm done with this thread though. I really have nothing more to say. The hire is what it is.

That is another assumption.

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Oh,  what a surprise!

 

Yet another thread starring the one and only Jared Cisneros.     90-something posts and he's got 21 of them.

 

Last week it was a thread with 102 posts and he had 29 of them.

 

And all of them --- both threads --- were Jared telling everyone else that he's right,  and they're wrong.

 

Jared....    you have yet to be right even once in these monster threads.     I don't know why you haven't figured that out yet,  but not once.     You have this habit of posting first without checking facts.   

 

You leap before you look.     And when you do look,  you realize there's no safe place for you to land.    So, it's everyone else is wrong,  but not you.

 

I hope someday you'll grow out of this behavior.    But so far,  it's been wash, rinse, repeat.     This is not promising.

 

In a way, I get a warm fuzzy feeling from your posts because I know you care about me and it makes me smile. I have strong opinions though, and a lot of them aren't popular. It's very hard to get me to change my mind. Again, some things I like that happen, and some I don't. I'll crash and burn a lot, but I'm going to stick to my gut as always on who I think is good and bad. Usually my reads are right, I can figure out patterns, that's what a poker player does.

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13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Funny thread.  A few thoughts:

 

The person with real knowledge writes the internet article.  Reading the article and researching stats is not knowledge.  Knowing the circumstances under which each data point was created is.  With real knowledge, a person doesn't need stats.  Stats are used when you don't have knowledge about something, but desire to form an opinion about it anyway.

 

So, yes, Jared is right about that.  I don't know if he really has real knowledge about Trestman, but neither does anybody else who looked it up on the internet a few minutes ago.

You like Jared are missing the point.  The person writing the article still had to complete research for the article so that person wouldn't have that knowledge unless they researched it first.  I cannot believe I am trying to explain this to people.  The rest of your drivel is baseless and makes no sense.

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your knowledge may be that of a hardcore, but your attitude is that of a casual, like you are ok with whatever happens and you'll go along with it. I'm the opposite, a control freak, which is why I've preferred fantasy sports to real sports the last few years.

 

Not to get off topic...but how do you do play fantasy sports if you don't do research? 

 

There's probably a good chance I play fantasy sports (DFS and season-long across NFL, MLB and NHL) more than anyone on this board...and I absolutely rely on stats and research. That's how I get (or at least try to get) the "control" you alluded to.

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In a way, I get a warm fuzzy feeling from your posts because I know you care about me and it makes me smile. I have strong opinions though, and a lot of them aren't popular. It's very hard to get me to change my mind. Again, some things I like that happen, and some I don't. I'll crash and burn a lot, but I'm going to stick to my gut as always on who I think is good and bad. Usually my reads are right, I can figure out patterns, that's what a poker player does.

 

I love you Jared.....      I wouldn't waste my time on you if I didn't.

 

But man,   you are your own worst enemy here....

 

Just slow your roll....     keep your powder dry.      Double check some of your facts....

 

In the end,  it will likely save you a lot of grief.....         Really....

 

p.s. ---  scroll back up a few posts....    you'll see another post intended for you.....    trust me,  you won't miss it!

 

 

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Just now, shastamasta said:

 

Not to get off topic...but how do you do play fantasy sports if you don't do research? 

 

There's probably a good chance I play fantasy sports (DFS and season-long across NFL, MLB and NHL) more than anyone on this board...and I absolutely rely on stats and research. That's how I get (or at least trt to get) the "control" you alluded to.

I do a ton of research, on both daily and yearly fantasy. You are right, that's the control, doing your research, picking your team, adding/dropping players, setting lineups and controlling your destiny to win money. I will follow trends all the time, such as schedule difficulty, position matchups vs defenses, does he have upside? It works very well.

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21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Funny thread.  A few thoughts:

 

The person with real knowledge writes the internet article.  Reading the article and researching stats is not knowledge.  Knowing the circumstances under which each data point was created is.  With real knowledge, a person doesn't need stats.  Stats are used when you don't have knowledge about something, but desire to form an opinion about it anyway.

 

So, yes, Jared is right about that.  I don't know if he really has real knowledge about Trestman, but neither does anybody else who looked it up on the internet a few minutes ago.

 

This is false.      Completely false.

 

You wrote it nicely,   but that doesn't make it right.

 

It's simply opinion.       And I would respectfully disagree.      It's poppycock.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do a ton of research, on both daily and yearly fantasy. You are right, that's the control, doing your research, picking your team, adding/dropping players, setting lineups and controlling your destiny to win money. I will follow trends all the time, such as schedule difficulty, position matchups vs defenses, does he have upside? It works very well.

So why not do the same with your opinions of a coaching hire?  You do research to make a more informed decision, correct?  That is the point that I was trying to make with you through our entire discussion which is research a topic before forming an opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

So why not do the same with your opinions of a coaching hire?  You do research to make a more informed decision, correct?  That is the point that I was trying to make with you through our entire discussion which is research a topic before forming an opinion.

I wasn't expecting so much resistance on the topic tbh. I'll probably do that from now on though on topics that aren't opinion based.

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34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Funny thread.  A few thoughts:

 

The person with real knowledge writes the internet article.  Reading the article and researching stats is not knowledge.  Knowing the circumstances under which each data point was created is.  With real knowledge, a person doesn't need stats.  Stats are used when you don't have knowledge about something, but desire to form an opinion about it anyway.

 

So, yes, Jared is right about that.  I don't know if he really has real knowledge about Trestman, but neither does anybody else who looked it up on the internet a few minutes ago.

 

You looked that up.

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize what he did in 83 in Miami and in 89 on the Browns, neither were HC jobs. He got some value out of Jake Plummer and did well with Rich Gannon, but as an OC. Funny thing is, you probably knew nothing about him and just looked up some info just to learn about him 5 mins ago. It's always copy/paste, click on an article. No one has any real knowledge, they just look it up and pretend too. Half the people on here would be lost if they were talking in public instead of on a computer. I may not do as much research, but at least I'm not fake where I pretend to know more than I do. What I talk about is what I 100% know.

 

 

It is really hard to believe you typed out the bolded based on your other posts in this thread.  Is the irony really lost on you?

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35 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My issue isn't people having facts, my issue is that certain posters get overinflated for being extremely intelligent, when in reality, they are just using the internet to tell their side of the debate. Most of us are probably pretty close to the same intelligence level in football with some disagreements here and there, but the internet can make a lot of people seem like geniuses if used right. Then others call others stupid for not doing research, when they didn't know anything about the subject in the first place. The internet can make anyone a genius if used right.

 

 

 

I feel differently than you.  When people speak an opinion, fine. Some may agree, and others don’t.  Sometimes people will challenge that opinion.  Notably if that opinion is worded in a way to imply as fact.  Now is when credible evidence (facts) are needed to ‘back the claim. People will go back to ‘their’ sources’ to back their reasoning. It is called building credibility to their argument.

 

Most people here also have formed their ideas and opinions on things they have read.  Not just on things seen and heard on Broadcasts. Not everyone reads the same amount or the same things.  Doesn’t make one better than another, but it can serve them better in a discussion, as they’ll recall things from respected people in the know, and recite those in which they agree upon.  Yes, they often have to look through the book again to be sure they quote it right, or didn’t miss something in the text.

 

These things can be Books ( like I’m just finishing Take Your Eye Off the Ball 2.0 now) web sites (paid membership or free), magazines, etc.  But we all read different things and have different opinions and input.  That makes good discussion and sharing of knowledge.

 

Things that interest me (rules officiating, medical aspects (since it is my profession), and inner workings of teams and schemes/plays).  Others focus on different areas; like scouting, contracts and cap, Pro Player scouting, College player draft evaluation, etc.  We all focus on different and different amount of things.  

 

I do not feel we all know the same things, and in the same amount.  I’m sure there ar those that know the differences between Zone Blocking and Angle Blocking systems, and how it is carried out, for instance. Certainly some could answer the question “if a team has running plays with a pulling  left guard, are they running ZBS or Power scheme? Others may not.  But if a different question is asked, tables are turned. There are thousands of scenarios. I do not even know why you bring up the subject so often as you have in this thread.  So many areas I’ve only touched upon above, and so many people that do know things in those areas.  And all input is allowed to be voiced, and it weighed upon.  But I wager nobody knows everything in every area, if that is what you’re getting at.  But I’ve learned quite a bit from expertise of members here in areas I don’t focus my own efforts on.  And I feel there are some that may have learned some things from where I focus my energy and time o, and have some expertise. It’s a discussion forum, not a contest. It’s the adult form of sharing.  

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

You are completely wrong.  Using only the stats that back up your argument is confirmation bias, please do not equate the numbers with a human behavior.  Numbers generally don't lie there has to be human manipulation involved. 

 

The reasons you list for the RB averaging the yards per carry are issues that can be explained by the use of statistics as well.  All of that would factor in to the judgement of the yards per carry of said running back.

Right.  By using more granular data. 

 

But If I watched the game, I would have seen the facts as they occurred at the time.  I've got all the granular data right in front of me.  That's knowledge.

 

People who quote RB stats, do so to try to know if the player is good, or to try to make a point, but they weren't there when the facts were created, so they don't know..  And yes, most of the time on this forum its to support an opinion.

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16 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do a ton of research, on both daily and yearly fantasy. You are right, that's the control, doing your research, picking your team, adding/dropping players, setting lineups and controlling your destiny to win money. I will follow trends all the time, such as schedule difficulty, position matchups vs defenses, does he have upside? It works very well.

 

Right. But from reading posts in this thread, it seems like you have an issue with people using stats and/or doing research on this board. It seems like a contradiction to feel that way but then avidly do something similar in regards to fantasy sports.

 

Personally, I don't see a huge difference in seeking to have an informed opinion vs. seeking to make an informed prediction/projection. And I don't really think either reflect someone's knowledge on a subject. It's just good business to collect and interpret as much data as you can...because it's there for that purpose. 

 

But I haven't been here that long...so I don't really have know about people using stats to make themselves appear smarter than they are. 

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26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is false.      Completely false.

 

You wrote it nicely,   but that doesn't make it right.

 

It's simply opinion.       And I would respectfully disagree.      It's poppycock.

 

Nah.  I know that 2 + 3 = 5 because once I bring two more skittles into a pile of three, I count 5.  It only helps that I also read it in a math book and my teacher told me, but its not the basis of my knowledge.  But once I grasp the concepts, then I know.

 

I know table salt is SodiumChloride because I have confidence that its composition is an unyielding provable thing, and that there are people who have been trained in how to prove it.

 

Not much real knowledge about the evaluation of people or events can be found by reading articles or stats.

  

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nah.  I know that 2 + 3 = 5 because once I bring two more skittles into a pile of three, I count 5.  It only helps that I also read it in a math book and my teacher told me, but its not the basis of my knowledge.  But once I grasp the concepts, then I know.

 

I know table salt is SodiumChloride because I have confidence that its composition is an unyielding provable thing, and that there are people who have been trained in how to prove it.

 

Not much real knowledge about the evaluation of people or events can be found by reading articles or stats.

  

You were not born knowing how to count, that is learned.  You didn't know that salt is composed of Sodium Chloride when you were born, you learned that from somewhere.  That last sentence might be the most unintelligent phrase I have ever read.

But I digress, we are getting off topic.

I am willing to wait and see how this hire works out before passing judgement.

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13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nah.  I know that 2 + 3 = 5 because once I bring two more skittles into a pile of three, I count 5.  It only helps that I also read it in a math book and my teacher told me, but its not the basis of my knowledge.  But once I grasp the concepts, then I know.

 

I know table salt is SodiumChloride because I have confidence that its composition is an unyielding provable thing, and that there are people who have been trained in how to prove it.

 

Not much real knowledge about the evaluation of people or events can be found by reading articles or stats.

  

 

No.     Not true.

 

And I don't know why you think that?

 

If the last 20 years shows us anything about analytic stats,  is that a tremendous amount can be learned by stats.

 

That's why all sports are using analytics (facts, stats).    Of course,  bad stats, can lead to bad results.   It's true in all walks of life.    But stats can reveal a great deal.     And winning teams are proving that in all sports.   As I said in another thread,   the Nerds have won.    They're running most sports and doing a very good job of it.

 

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34 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wasn't expecting so much resistance on the topic tbh. I'll probably do that from now on though on topics that aren't opinion based.

But when other people jump on you to tell you, not that they disagree with your opinion, but that how you formed your opinion is wrong, it gets annoying.  I get it.

 

Some people are very good at making quick judgments on very little information and being correct.  Others who need to research things,examine data, and basically have the answers spoon fed to them on a spreadsheet shouldn't criticize how others who don't do that make judgments.  Some people have a process that isn't suited to others.  Big deal. 

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