Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Taven Bryan or Bradley Chubb..


Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Bryan is special, one of the fastest, strongest DT's I have laid eyes on in a long time...He has been compared to J.J. Watt for a reason..I encourage you to watch this guy then tell me.

Holy Moly Man! I saw JJ Watt first hand at Camp Randall. Taven is just like JJ. Always around the ball making QBs very uncomfortable. He pops off the screen. 

 

Look, I'm no draft specialist, but thanks JS23 for putting radar on this kid. I love me some major game wreckers & Bryan certainly hits that mark. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/taven-bryan?id=2560140

 

Thanks for letting me know who else to pay attention to. You know your stuff man. JJ 3.0. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 112
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Since we're comparing Tevon Bryan with JJ Watt (insanity) and now Bradly Chubb (more insanity)   I'll post their respective stats and let people compare....

 

Bryan

 

Year         Sacks         TFL

15               0               1.5

16               1                3

17               4                6

Total           5               10.5

 

Watt

 

Year         Sacks         TFL

09              4.5            15.5

10              7.0            21.0

Total         11.5           36.5

 

Chubb

 

Year         Sacks          TFL

15              5.5             12

16             10.0            21.5

17             10.0            25

Total          25.5           57.5

 

Do these stat lines look similar?      Does one stand out by miles?

 

The comment about Bryan being like JJ Watt,  was made by ONE MAN.    Bryan's former DC at Florida.  It was madfe prior to his 17 season.       They have the same body type.     They do no have the same production.   Not even close.      And Chubb's production is unmatched.    Then you count his high character and high motor.   This is not hard to figure out.     At least,  not for most people.

 

You want to take Barkley over Chubb.     There's an argument for that.     You want to take Nelson over Chubb,   there's an argument for that too.     But to hope you're going to get Bryan or the OU olb, instead of Chubb --- insanity.

 

When that hope includes 2 seconds, or a first 2nd and 3 or 4 +Bryan, or getting Barkley and that terrible player from OU yeah I'm guilty..smh..Never said take Bryan at #3, never said I compared him to Watt I said he has been compared to Watt..smh..There is a FOREST through the trees NCF...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Since we're comparing Tevon Bryan with JJ Watt (insanity) and now Bradly Chubb (more insanity)   I'll post their respective stats and let people compare....

 

Bryan

 

Year         Sacks         TFL

15               0               1.5

16               1                3

17               4                6

Total           5               10.5

 

Watt

 

Year         Sacks         TFL

09              4.5            15.5

10              7.0            21.0

Total         11.5           36.5

 

Chubb

 

Year         Sacks          TFL

15              5.5             12

16             10.0            21.5

17             10.0            25

Total          25.5           57.5

 

Do these stat lines look similar?      Does one stand out by miles?

 

The comment about Bryan being like JJ Watt,  was made by ONE MAN.    Bryan's former DC at Florida.  It was madfe prior to his 17 season.       They have the same body type.     They do no have the same production.   Not even close.      And Chubb's production is unmatched.    Then you count his high character and high motor.   This is not hard to figure out.     At least,  not for most people.

 

You want to take Barkley over Chubb.     There's an argument for that.     You want to take Nelson over Chubb,   there's an argument for that too.     But to hope you're going to get Bryan or the OU olb, instead of Chubb --- insanity.

 

I think production doesn't necessarily mean a great deal in college - take Khalil Mack for example, did not have a lot of sacks but had measurables and was coachable (same as JJ). It all really depends on the team they go to, scheme fit, motivation - if they are physically capable.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

I think production doesn't necessarily mean a great deal in college - take Khalil Mack for example, did not have a lot of sacks but had measurables and was coachable (same as JJ). It all really depends on the team they go to, scheme fit, motivation - if they are physically capable.  

 

That's true to an extent...

 

But when one player has stats among the national headers in TWO seasons and the other has stats that you can find in most any team in America, then that's something else.

 

I'm not saying Bryan isn't a good player and he might very well be a first round pick.   But considering he doesn't even play the position as Chubb the comparison was ridiculous to start.   And then when you compare the stats the comparison looks even more lopsided.   There is no comparison to be made.   None.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's true to an extent...

 

But when one player has stats among the national headers in TWO seasons and the other has stats that you can find in most any team in America, then that's something else.

 

I'm not saying Bryan isn't a good player and he might very well be a first round pick.   But considering he doesn't even play the position as Chubb the comparison was ridiculous to start.   And then when you compare the stats the comparison looks even more lopsided.   There is no comparison to be made.   None.   

I wasn't comparing player for player!! I said if you trade back, preferably twice once with Jets then with Bills..Pick up all those picks get a haul like Bryan, Hernandez, Okoronkwo or Landry, Guice, Leornard big difference than saying player for player...Bryan has about as high a ceiling as a DT can have and his stock will rise big time after combine..Even if it's just the Bills trade no Jets, you get 2 1's, 2nd, and probably a 3rd you do it...If possible do the Jets trade first add those two 2nds then you are really cooking and it's possible..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Holy Moly Man! I saw JJ Watt first hand at Camp Randall. Taven is just like JJ. Always around the ball making QBs very uncomfortable. He pops off the screen. 

 

Look, I'm no draft specialist, but thanks JS23 for putting radar on this kid. I love me some major game wreckers & Bryan certainly hits that mark. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/taven-bryan?id=2560140

 

Thanks for letting me know who else to pay attention to. You know your stuff man. JJ 3.0. 

Thanks SW1!! It's not all about stats with DT's either...It's about disruption ,causing pressure, stopping the run, and opening things up for linebackers..When you watch him you notice he is constantly doubled and still pushes 2 guys backwards a lot of times...He is almost unblockable 1 on 1...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Just the fact some of you in this thread are saying Chubb(position of high value, who has no flaws at all besides not having elite athleticism) isn’t worth the 3rd pick. But say Saquon(position of less value, that doesn’t have great vision or decision making) is worth the 3rd pick is really mind boggling. 

 

Its like you just watch highlights lol. 

Are all the experts you use to base your Chubb evaluation on right about Chubb,but wrong about Barkley being #1 BPA??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's true to an extent...

 

But when one player has stats among the national headers in TWO seasons and the other has stats that you can find in most any team in America, then that's something else.

 

I'm not saying Bryan isn't a good player and he might very well be a first round pick.   But considering he doesn't even play the position as Chubb the comparison was ridiculous to start.   And then when you compare the stats the comparison looks even more lopsided.   There is no comparison to be made.   None.   

 

I appreciate what you are saying. I think Jshipp was referring to who can get to the QB and create pressure on the pocket better. In that sense there is a comparison. Although I believe our interior is in better shape than our outside pass rush so I personally wouldn't select Bryan with number 3. 

 

Of course comparing the stats will show a deficiency on Bryan's part - that what you mentioned about the difference in position. Bryan's stats are probably average for an interior lineman. 

 

I'm just hoping we get the best player we can to help the team if that is Bryan, so be it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

I appreciate what you are saying. I think Jshipp was referring to who can get to the QB and create pressure on the pocket better. In that sense there is a comparison. Although I believe our interior is in better shape than our outside pass rush so I personally wouldn't select Bryan with number 3. 

 

Of course comparing the stats will show a deficiency on Bryan's part - that what you mentioned about the difference in position. Bryan's stats are probably average for an interior lineman. 

 

I'm just hoping we get the best player we can to help the team if that is Bryan, so be it. 

If you watch Bryan,  you will notice he is almost always double teamed, when you see him one on 1 that's where he looks superhuman..He cannot be blocked by one man he is too strong..DT is a position you can't judge on stats, they do the dirty work make everyone else's job easier..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

If you watch Bryan,  you will notice he is almost always double teamed, when you see him one on 1 that's where he looks superhuman..He cannot be blocked by one man he is too strong..DT is a position you can't judge on stats, they do the dirty work make everyone else's job easier..

 

He reminds me a little bit of Aaron Donald 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

He reminds me a little bit of Aaron Donald 

Yep! If he has defensive ends that draw attention and you have to block him 1 on 1 he can have high sack numbers..Other way around he draws doubles and frees it up for you ends and linebackers...You combine him with a beast DE you are a scary defense..If it was possible to somehow get him and Chubb watch out..Or, get him, sign Lawrence or Ansah, draft Okoronkwo or Landry in 2nd..Many options, but he is my favorite defensive prospect followed by Okoronkwo right now subject to change..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

My opinions are based off watching every game of Chubb and Barkley. 

Watch the Iowa game, 40 carries 305 yds..Does it all, shows vision, runs up the middle breaks tackles, catches multiple passes..Basically a 1 man team, no surprise he slowed down as the season went on they rode that Horse to the max..Its on Youtube shows damn near every touch..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jshipp23 said:

Watch the Iowa game, 40 carries 305 yds..Does it all, shows vision, runs up the middle breaks tackles, catches multiple passes..Basically a 1 man team, no surprise he slowed down as the season went on they rode that Horse to the max..Its on Youtube shows damn near every touch..

A lot of people are just hung up on the fact that we are in need of serious Defensive help. Which we could still get with picks 2-7. If everyone would just clear their mind and don't think about team needs, it's not even close who the best player in the Draft is. It's Barkley. What is funny is, RB is a team need as well so picking him at #3 is a no brainer to me. Mack isn't a 3 down back (would be a nice weapon for about 10 carries or so) and Gore is old and probably gone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Watch the Iowa game, 40 carries 305 yds..Does it all, shows vision, runs up the middle breaks tackles, catches multiple passes..Basically a 1 man team, no surprise he slowed down as the season went on they rode that Horse to the max..Its on Youtube shows damn near every touch..

Iowa is a great coached defense, but they don’t have nfl athletes to handle Barkley. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of people are just hung up on the fact that we are in need of serious Defensive help. Which we could still get with picks 2-7. If everyone would just clear their mind and don't think about team needs, it's not even close who the best player in the Draft is. It's Barkley. What is funny is, RB is a team need as well so picking him at #3 is a no brainer to me. Mack isn't a 3 down back (would be a nice weapon for about 10 carries or so) and Gore is old and probably gone.

I agree man I don't see how anyone doesn't see it..We have needed a running back for almost 10 years now..smh..That being said if we can gwt a haul of picks to trade back I do it..I favor the Buffalo option 21 and 22 and their 2nd and 3rd...DT Bryan/OG Hernandez/OLB Okoronkwo/ TE Dallas Goedert in 3rd...Hopefully we get RB Guice with our 2nd...That is my vision..lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of people are just hung up on the fact that we are in need of serious Defensive help. Which we could still get with picks 2-7. If everyone would just clear their mind and don't think about team needs, it's not even close who the best player in the Draft is. It's Barkley. What is funny is, RB is a team need as well so picking him at #3 is a no brainer to me. Mack isn't a 3 down back (would be a nice weapon for about 10 carries or so) and Gore is old and probably gone.

Edge  > RB 

 

Also barkley has flaws, Chubb doesn’t. 

 

We will take Chubb becuase he’s a top 5 talent anddd because he is the biggest need. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Edge  > RB 

 

Also barkley has flaws, Chubb doesn’t. 

 

We will take Chubb becuase he’s a top 5 talent anddd because he is the biggest need. 

He does have flaws you already admitted he wasn't an elite athlete..Thats my hangup with him always has been..In college you can get by but NFL is a different story..That being said he is good, he will be a consistent 8-10 sack a yr guy which is still very good..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I agree man I don't see how anyone doesn't see it..We have needed a running back for almost 10 years now..smh..That being said if we can gwt a haul of picks to trade back I do it..I favor the Buffalo option 16, and 24 and their 2nd and 3rd...DT Bryan/OG Hernandez/OLB Okoronkwo/ TE Dallas Goedert in 3rd...Hopefully we get RB Guice with our 2nd...That is my vision..lol

 

Buffalo has picks 21 and 22 in the first.

 

Not 16 and 24.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Watch Ohio state, Rutgers, Indiana. One game against an unathletic defense isn’t going to sway me. Like I said, doesn’t possess great vision or decision making, which are the most important traits for a running back. 

Why don't the experts see it then?...Why is he the only RB in recent memory to be consensus #1 BPA? WHY is that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jshipp23 said:

He does have flaws you already admitted he wasn't an elite athlete..Thats my hangup with him always has been..In college you can get by but NFL is a different story..That being said he is good, he will be a consistent 8-10 sack a yr guy which is still very good..

He’s not an elite athlete, but he is a very good athlete, very good especially for his size. The bend he has at his size is great, his power, burst and hands are great. I’ve compared him to Bosa a lot, and he wasn’t an elite athlete either. Give me the great football player over the great athlete that plays a lesser valued position. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jshipp23 said:

Why don't the experts see it then?...Why is he the only RB in recent memory to be consensus #1 BPA? WHY is that?

I’ve seen plenty of guys say Saquon isn’t the #1 player. Guys fall in love with athleticism. Trent Richardson was very highly regarded as a prospect too. And he suffered from the same flaws as Saquon... not comparing them but just saying. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is this being presented as an either or situation? Realistically the Colts could have both. Right now Bryan is a fringe 1st rounder. He could be there in the 2nd round because right now he’s raw and lacks a feel for the game. As Mayock likes to say “He doesn’t even know what he’s doing yet”. But when he puts it all together, watch out. We could get Chubb and Bryan and paired with Hankins, we’d have the start of a ferocious D-line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Why is this being presented as an either or situation? Realistically the Colts could have both. Right now Bryan is a fringe 1st rounder. He could be there in the 2nd round because right now he’s raw and lacks a feel for the game. As Mayock likes to say “He doesn’t even know what he’s doing yet”. But when he puts it all together, watch out. We could get Chubb and Bryan and paired with Hankins, we’d have the start of a ferocious D-line.

If that is a possibility I'm all for it! Those 2 together would be dynamic...I don't see Bryan being there in 2nd though, especially after combine...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think the Colts are going to take Barkley. Not because of all this back and forth opinions on who is a better pick but because the Giants are going to take him at #2.

Probably right....I almost want them to so I don't have to worry about it..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Probably right....I almost want them to so I don't have to worry about it..

The reason I think that is they have already said they are rolling with Eli but also they had no RBs on their roster that were even close to be talented enough to depend on. Just my take, nothing more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The reason I think that is they have already said they are rolling with Eli but also they had no RBs on their roster that were even close to be talented enough to depend on. Just my take, nothing more.

I hope they take Chubb but they won't..lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

He’s not an elite athlete, but he is a very good athlete, very good especially for his size. The bend he has at his size is great, his power, burst and hands are great. I’ve compared him to Bosa a lot, and he wasn’t an elite athlete either. Give me the great football player over the great athlete that plays a lesser valued position. 

Chubb is better than Bosa to me. I have no problem with his athleticism. And the crticism is a farce because you can turn on film of that 280lb man making plays in coverage. Mingo is a great athlete. That doesn't always result in sacks. I dont see any amazing athletic traits in Terrell Suggs, but hes damn sure a hunter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Chubb is better than Bosa to me. I have no problem with his athleticism. And the crticism is a farce because you can turn on film of that 280lb man making plays in coverage. Mingo is a great athlete. That doesn't always result in sacks. I dont see any amazing athletic traits in Suggs, but hes damn sure a hunter

True...I get that for sure...Zach Thomas comes to mind...If you can play you can play..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think 10 sacks is plenty for College especially knowing they only play 11 games. I dont look at it as "He only got 10 sacks?". Plus Chubb from what I can see is the only noticeable player on the NC state DL. Harder to get there when you are the only threat. You team him up with Ansah/Lawrence, Sheard, Ridgeway and another penetrator in the middle and I think we will see even better from him on the pro level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, krunk said:

Chubb is better than Bosa to me. I have no problem with his athleticism. And the crticism is a farce because you can turn on film of that 280lb man making plays in coverage. Mingo is a great athlete. That doesn't always result in sacks. I dont see any amazing athletic traits in Terrell Suggs, but hes damn sure a hunter

 

Terrell Suggs is a pretty good athlete - I guess just different opinions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think 10 sacks is plenty for College especially knowing they only play 11 games. I dont look at it as "He only got 10 sacks?". Plus Chubb from what I can see is the only noticeable player on the NC state DL. Harder to get there when you are the only threat. You team him up with Ansah/Lawrence, Sheard, Ridgeway and another penetrator in the middle and I think we will see even better from him on the pro level.

He got doubled a lot too just like Bryan, skewed his stats for sure...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See when you start mentioning names like Bjoern Werner and saying he had similar stats as Chubb i still dont think its equal. Werner was playing next to other really good athletes on that FSU front who helped him get loose. Werner was basically like Jerry Hughes when he went to Buffalo. Good player with solid athletes around him, but the magic kind of evaporates when surrounded by lesser talent. The film of Bjoern didnt show a guy who just popped of the screen manhandling guys like Chubb. Chubb does what he does on his own for the most part. There are not other top athletes there causing disruption to free him up. He creates the havoc mostly on his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

See when you start mentioning names like Bjoern Werner and saying he had similar stats as Chubb i still dont think its equal. Werner was playing next to other really good athletes on that FSU front who helped him get loose. The film of Bjoern didnt show a guy who just popped of the screen manhandling guys like Chubb. Chubb does what he does on his own for the most part. There are not other top athletes there causing disruption to free him up. He creates the havoc mostly on his own.

I know man...I was having fun with it..Chubb has a really high floor no doubt...He is safe could be Reggie White could be Ryan Kerrigan..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, krunk said:

Chubb is better than Bosa to me. I have no problem with his athleticism. And the crticism is a farce because you can turn on film of that 280lb man making plays in coverage. Mingo is a great athlete. That doesn't always result in sacks. I dont see any amazing athletic traits in Terrell Suggs, but hes damn sure a hunter

We’re on the same page. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • So play great coverage, let the rush get there... but what about when you play Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar, etc.?    And your next line seems contradictory. QBs are less accurate under pressure, but you prioritize playing coverage...? Your final line is true, they're dependent on each other, but if I had to choose between great pass rush and average coverage, or great coverage and average pass rush, I think I'm choosing great pass rush. I want to affect the QB, because all of my coverage will get a boost. Of course, it would be nice to be great at both.   Regarding pressures vs sacks, yes, context is needed. But it's pointless to try to reduce the topic down to the bolded. Sacks are obviously more important than pressures because they end the play, whereas the outcome from a pressure can range from really good (sack/turnover) to really bad (big play/TD). But pressures are still important, and pressure is cumulative. And on a fundamental level, you cannot get a sack if you don't get pressure. Being dismissive about pressures is somewhat myopic.
    • Really good info.   Thanks for sharing 
    • I hate it. People are still suffering money wise from inflation, and streaming used to be an alternative, but now it’s just as expensive to have all of these services to the point we’ll have to switch back to cable just to save money.    The consumer just never wins…
    • Of course.   I don’t think I disagree.   But I think Ballard knows his players and if/when to gamble on bringing them back.     Not sure I follow your comment about the draft behind him with Pierce be the same as pass rusher?   Can you elaborate?  
    • Last year was brutal for you?   Seriously?   Last year was one of the most enjoyable seasons of my 12+ years of Colts fandom!   A season where the Colts exceeded expectations while playing their backup quarterback.  Watching Steichen coach the heck out of this team!   A real pleasure.  Honestly.    And given the nature of how negative things are around here I’ll share a thought that I fully expect to get laughed at over… Ballard didn’t take the job over Luck.  Ballard took the job over Irsay.   I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Irsay, who had been a GM, then hired Bill Polian,  then Ryan Grigson who got exec of the year one year, then Ballard who also got executive of the year one year.   I don’t believe in coincidences like that.   Irsay knows the complexities of the job.   When Ballard took the job it wasn’t clear what was happening with Luck?   The one constant was Irsay.    Plenty of decisions were made with the trio…. Irsay, Ballard and Reich.     After the Luck retirement the Colts were in win-now mode.  They had a young team built to win and weren’t going to tell them the team was going to be in re-build mode for 2-4 years while a young quarterback learned on the job.     Things look obvious in hind sight.  The Colts plans were known in real time and they made what they felt were the only decisions that they could.   Try to win every year.  And part of the reason Ballard hasn’t been fired is that Irsay approved of those plans, he signed off on them.     Im sorry you may not watch this year.  Steichen is a really sharp guy.  Fun to watch.   I hope you’ll reconsider.   
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...