The Character of Kraft and Belichick

[crazycolt1]

37 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Its being reported today that Mcdufus was not even guaranteed to succeed BB when he retires. Lets face it (including pats fans) Kraft used his own coach as a pawn to seek revenge. Ultimately ending Mcdufus's chance of ever getting a head coaching job anywhere but New England, he might be destined to being the Pats OC for the rest of his NFL career because of this stunt. I must say for an owner to stoop to such levels is quite hilarious and embarrassing at the same time. If i was a Pats fan i would be ashamed.

Nah, winning at any cost is all most Pats fans care about. Integrity and sportsmanship means little to them. East coast mentality at it's finest.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:46 PM, Reality Check said:

It is nice that people in the Colts organization & their fans think there is a rivalry....and, hopefully, that will come to fruition someday.

 

However, if you were in NE right now, neither the Pats nor their fans consider there is any kind of rivalry between the 2 teams right now.  TBH, I am not even sure when the last time they played each other was??

 

The Colts have bigger issues within their own division IMO.

This is another in the seemingly endless line of troll threads which would be on a Patriot web site if they were intended to do anything but draw responses from Colts' fans

[TCEHY]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Nah, winning at any cost is all most Pats fans care about. Integrity and sportsmanship means little to them. East coast mentality at it's finest.

 

True that

[dynasty13]

On 2/10/2018 at 5:38 PM, crazycolt1 said:

Nah, winning at any cost is all most Pats fans care about. Integrity and sportsmanship means little to them. East coast mentality at it's finest.

 

I'm so happy that you all seem to know us so well and what our 'east coast mentality' is.

 

Please remember that we are talking about professional athletes here and not our elementary after school program where we are all worried about the virtues we need to instill in our youth. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I'm so happy that you all seem to know us so well and what our 'east coast mentality' is.

 

Please remember that we are talking about professional athletes here and not our elementary after school program where we are all worried about the virtues we need to instill in our youth. 

Look, I have been all over this country with my past job for over 35 years. People attitudes very from different parts of the country. There is truth to what I call the east coast mentality and how they treat other people. The east coast mentality is more arrogant and loud mouthed than let's say the south. There is also a difference in lets say the New York-New Jersey area than the Boston-Providence area. Us in what you people call the fly over states are looked at like we are either hillbilly or slow minded.

Just like exactly as you say. You bring up virtues you instill in your youth. That is exactly your arrogance showing up without you even having second thoughts about it. This has zero to do with any of that. I been to NFL games in Foxborough, Pittsburgh, DC, Phily, Indy, Cincy, Back in the old Baltimore Memorial stadium, Chicago, Green Bay, St. Louis and Nashville. Out of all those places I attended games at the one at Foxborough was the only one I was treated like a dog because I wore my Blue and White. I was harassed, beer thrown on me, me and my 14 year old grandson was threatened and had things said to us I can't repeat in this forum. Even as far as death threats.  It wasn't at only the stadium, it was even at the hotel we were staying at. The lack of class shown by your hospitality has long standing effects that will never go away.

So don't tell me there is no east coast mentality or lack thereof.

[GoPats]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Look, I have been all over this country with my past job for over 35 years. People attitudes very from different parts of the country. There is truth to what I call the east coast mentality and how they treat other people. The east coast mentality is more arrogant and loud mouthed than let's say the south. There is also a difference in lets say the New York-New Jersey area than the Boston-Providence area. Us in what you people call the fly over states are looked at like we are either hillbilly or slow minded.

Just like exactly as you say. You bring up virtues you instill in your youth. That is exactly your arrogance showing up without you even having second thoughts about it. This has zero to do with any of that. I been to NFL games in Foxborough, Pittsburgh, DC, Phily, Indy, Cincy, Back in the old Baltimore Memorial stadium, Chicago, Green Bay, St. Louis and Nashville. Out of all those places I attended games at the one at Foxborough was the only one I was treated like a dog because I wore my Blue and White. I was harassed, beer thrown on me, me and my 14 year old grandson was threatened and had things said to us I can't repeat in this forum. Even as far as death threats.  It wasn't at only the stadium, it was even at the hotel we were staying at. The lack of class shown by your hospitality has long standing effects that will never go away.

So don't tell me there is no east coast mentality or lack thereof.

 

I like you and your posts, but I hate seeing anyone subscribe to these types of generalizations. 

 

What if we judged all Indy fans by the incident where a 12-year-old girl was booed while competing in a "pass, punt and kick" thing at the old RCA Dome? 

 

Was that "classy?" It happened in 2008, YEARS before DFG... is that the type of character and integrity you guys are talking about? To boo a child for wearing a particular team's jersey? 

 

I have two young children, ages 8 and 5, and I don't use NFL football as a means to teach them lessons between right and wrong. I don't encourage them to hold sports stars up to some kind of heroes ideal and I think it's a mistake when families actually DO take professional sports that seriously. 

 

We don't really know any of these guys. We really don't. We don't know what kind of people they are, so whenever someone talks about class and integrity, my immediate thought is that you should look elsewhere (to teachers, firefighters, police officers, our military, etc) for your heroes. 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I like you and your posts, but I hate seeing anyone subscribe to these types of generalizations. 

 

What if we judged all Indy fans by the incident where a 12-year-old girl was booed while competing in a "pass, punt and kick" thing at the old RCA Dome? 

 

Was that "classy?" It happened in 2008, YEARS before DFG... is that the type of character and integrity you guys are talking about? To boo a child for wearing a particular team's jersey? 

 

I have two young children, ages 8 and 5, and I don't use NFL football as a means to teach them lessons between right and wrong. I don't encourage them to hold sports stars up to some kind of heroes ideal and I think it's a mistake when families actually DO take professional sports that seriously. 

 

We don't really know any of these guys. We really don't. We don't know what kind of people they are, so whenever someone talks about class and integrity, my immediate thought is that you should look elsewhere (to teachers, firefighters, police officers, our military, etc) for your heroes. 

 

 

I agree with your comment 100%. But my comments go a little deeper than football. I had to deal with the working people of all areas of the country and there is a big difference between the attitudes from various parts of the country. One example is I don't speak with a southern accent. But plenty of times in the Boston and R.I. area I have been accused of being a hillbilly because I had a Midwest accent. And it wasn't in a joking way either. The insulting treatment I received on the east coast made me change the direction my job took me. For the last 10 years of my job I wouldn't go any farther east than Ohio or the Pittsburgh area. It's sad in a way because I couldn't enjoy the rich history that part of the country has. Believe it or not I even got to hear insults how "us" hillbillies lost the war. Really? I live north of the Mason Dixon line. The mentality of that blows my mind.

The only people I enjoyed being around on the east coast were the blue collar workers. The steel mill workers. The dock workers. The Longshoremen. But dealing with the suit and tie people was sickening because it was apparent they think they are above most including their own blue collar workers.

Sorry I am so blunt but it is what it is.

You are probably one of my favorite Pats fans that post in this forum and I enjoy talking with you because we talk in a comfort zone. I have the utmost respect for that and hope to continue.

 

 

[horseshoecrabs]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:15 PM, George Peterson said:

Agreed.  They have been targeted for far more aggressive punishments than other franchises have by a Commissioner's office that is concerned with parity over fairness.  However when it comes to professional sports, "cheating" is a word that has a lot of meaning and should be only used when the cheating can be confirmed.

 

Which from a standpoint of the latest 2 Patriots scandals, really has not been done.  The only confirmed scandal is Spygate, and even in Spygate there is no confirmed advantage gained and the only confirmed misbehavior was Bill ignoring a memo and getting punished over a technicality.

 

Peyton "HGH to my wife's address" Manning has a greater history of confirmed cheating than the NEP do at the moment.  And of course there's the great triumverate of cheating in the AFC -- the Steelers, the Broncos, and the Jets, all of whom have been punished or accused of far more serious problems over the years than the Patriots probably ever will.

 

The media will do what it does, and angry fans will believe what they want to believe, but the truth is the truth.  The Broncos in particular are probably the worst cheaters in the entire history of the NFL, with multiple confirmed salary cap violations in the Elway era the longest PED rapsheet in the league, an order of magnitude greater than the next worst offender BTW (which is the Steelers),  The Jets have the most technical rules violations when it comes to interfering with players and coaches.  The Patriots?  As cheaters go, they're a little shadier than average, but not much.  The difference is that they cheat and win.  The Jets, Steelers and broncos just cheat.

First you said, the Patriots have never been proven to be cheaters, then you say they cheat and win . it's not their winning that draws distain it's their total lack of professionalism & ethics toward the rest of the league , that's why they will never be a class act , except maybe in New England.

[George Peterson]

The Patriots aren't trying to be a class act.  They're trying to win. 

 

However, the most famous allegations of cheating have never been proven and/or are severely exaggerated, they're on the low side of average for PED violations and character problems leaguewide, their hands are really no dirtier than most of the rest of the league. 

 

Spygate is the worst proven allegation, and since no one can prove what advantage they gained filming the walkthrough from the sidelines rather than the pressbox where everyone was filming it, calling it "cheating" is really stretching the definition of the world.  They broke the rules.  They deserved some form of punishment.  From a purely technical standpoint that's not quite the same as "cheating."

 

Compared to repeated tampering allegations (Jets), a long history of PED violations (Steelers) and deliberate, cynical cap manipulation and an even worse PED history than the Steelers (Broncos), nothing the Pats did was really all that catastrophic to league balance, and is certainly not why they're near the top of the league most seasons. 

 

The level of punishment for what the Patriots did, even if true, is ridiculously extreme and it happened more in an attempt to find a way to curtail the success of the franchise and attempt to enforce parity, than in response to any actions the Patriots took, or the even severity of the actions that were alleged.  Everyone spies on everyone else and always has, and equipment violations are something that happens a few times a year across the league.

 

The reactions by the league in response to equipment violations that normally rate a fine and a stern talking to, and a technical mistake in where the Patriots put the camera in response to a rule that was at the time less than a year old at the time, are beyond extreme, and just feel cynical and motivated by things other than a love of fairness or justice.

 

Millions in fines, the loss of multiple draft picks and a 4 game suspension to a league superstar, when the Broncos abusing the salary cap lost them only a third round pick each time they did it?  Something isn't quite right there IMHO.  Pick a worse violation of league fairness, I'd pick illegal salary cap manipulation any time, that's a direct threat to league parity and the Commissioner's authority.  Compare that to tampering with footballs and there is no comparison, even if you assume they actually did tamper with them, which there's a fair bit of evidence that that never actually took place. 

 

So why the minor equipment violation cost a first and a fourth and 33% of a season of your best player, while cynically manipulating the cap by taking millions in salary off the books for your best two players was a relative slap on the wrist, I don't quite understand.

[GoPats]

20 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree with your comment 100%. But my comments go a little deeper than football. I had to deal with the working people of all areas of the country and there is a big difference between the attitudes from various parts of the country. One example is I don't speak with a southern accent. But plenty of times in the Boston and R.I. area I have been accused of being a hillbilly because I had a Midwest accent. And it wasn't in a joking way either. The insulting treatment I received on the east coast made me change the direction my job took me. For the last 10 years of my job I wouldn't go any farther east than Ohio or the Pittsburgh area. It's sad in a way because I couldn't enjoy the rich history that part of the country has. Believe it or not I even got to hear insults how "us" hillbillies lost the war. Really? I live north of the Mason Dixon line. The mentality of that blows my mind.

The only people I enjoyed being around on the east coast were the blue collar workers. The steel mill workers. The dock workers. The Longshoremen. But dealing with the suit and tie people was sickening because it was apparent they think they are above most including their own blue collar workers.

Sorry I am so blunt but it is what it is.

You are probably one of my favorite Pats fans that post in this forum and I enjoy talking with you because we talk in a comfort zone. I have the utmost respect for that and hope to continue.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear all of that, and your experiences in the NE are, I hope, atypical and not the norm. Through my company I work with people all over the country and in Canada, and have always actually enjoyed the subtle cultural differences. It's sad that people would be so ignorant and rude... I've always found that anywhere you go, you have your share of good people, and your share of not-so-good people, lol...

 

 

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

The Patriots aren't trying to be a class act.  They're trying to win. 

 

However, the most famous allegations of cheating have never been proven and/or are severely exaggerated, they're on the low side of average for PED violations and character problems leaguewide, their hands are really no dirtier than most of the rest of the league. 

 

Spygate is the worst proven allegation, and since no one can prove what advantage they gained filming the walkthrough from the sidelines rather than the pressbox where everyone was filming it, calling it "cheating" is really stretching the definition of the world.  They broke the rules.  They deserved some form of punishment.  From a purely technical standpoint that's not quite the same as "cheating."

 

Compared to repeated tampering allegations (Jets), a long history of PED violations (Steelers) and deliberate, cynical cap manipulation and an even worse PED history than the Steelers (Broncos), nothing the Pats did was really all that catastrophic to league balance, and is certainly not why they're near the top of the league most seasons. 

 

The level of punishment for what the Patriots did, even if true, is ridiculously extreme and it happened more in an attempt to find a way to curtail the success of the franchise and attempt to enforce parity, than in response to any actions the Patriots took, or the even severity of the actions that were alleged.  Everyone spies on everyone else and always has, and equipment violations are something that happens a few times a year across the league.

 

The reactions by the league in response to equipment violations that normally rate a fine and a stern talking to, and a technical mistake in where the Patriots put the camera in response to a rule that was at the time less than a year old at the time, are beyond extreme, and just feel cynical and motivated by things other than a love of fairness or justice.

 

Millions in fines, the loss of multiple draft picks and a 4 game suspension to a league superstar, when the Broncos abusing the salary cap lost them only a third round pick each time they did it?  Something isn't quite right there IMHO.  Pick a worse violation of league fairness, I'd pick illegal salary cap manipulation any time, that's a direct threat to league parity and the Commissioner's authority.  Compare that to tampering with footballs and there is no comparison, even if you assume they actually did tamper with them, which there's a fair bit of evidence that that never actually took place. 

 

So why the minor equipment violation cost a first and a fourth and 33% of a season of your best player, while cynically manipulating the cap by taking millions in salary off the books for your best two players was a relative slap on the wrist, I don't quite understand.

Really what you don't understand is the Pats got fined and lost draft picks was because they didn't cooperate with the NFLs investigation, not a minor equipment violation. Bringing what other teams did or didn't get has zero to do with it.

[George Peterson]

3 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I'm sorry to hear all of that, and your experiences in the NE are, I hope, atypical and not the norm. Through my company I work with people all over the country and in Canada, and have always actually enjoyed the subtle cultural differences. It's sad that people would be so ignorant and rude... I've always found that anywhere you go, you have your share of good people, and your share of not-so-good people, lol...

 

 

Unfortunately I can believe it... depending on where you actually go in New England.  We're a bellicose  bunch, we always have been, and we tend to be a bit insular.  The Boston Irish influence is very strong throughout the region, and we do have a tendency to look askance at outsiders.  The rivalries with Montreal in hockey, and New York in baseball and football, tend to reflect that strongly, with both sides smacktalking and everyone giving as good as they get and the Bostonians loving every minute of it.

 

Unfortunately from a more reserved, Midwestern perspective -- yeah, I can definitely see why our braggadocio from years of bumping shoulders with New York Irishmen and Montreal Frenchmen would rub people the wrong way, particularly  because not all of us can keep a lid on it, especially when the beer starts flowing.  It's just the way we are.

[George Peterson]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Really what you don't understand is the Pats got fined and lost draft picks was because they didn't cooperate with the NFLs investigation, not a minor equipment violation. Bringing what other teams did or didn't get has zero to do with it.

Except that that allegation was thrown out of court because there's plenty of evidence that the Patriots TRIED to cooperate and the investigation was bungled badly by the NFL league office, with several left hands having no idea what right hands were doing. Brady actually got permission to destroy his phone on one hand while being accused of failing to cooperate with the investigation when he did on the other. 

 

The result was a schizpohrenic mess that NO one could have fully cooperated with because there were too many cooks in the kitchen on the NFL end.

[aaron11]

this is a colts forum, hating on the patriots is what we do here

 

go to literally any colts article on espn or nfl.com and you will see patriots fans doing the same to us.  

 

 

[George Peterson]

Just now, aaron11 said:

this is a colts forum, hating on the patriots is what we do here

 

go to literally any colts article on espn or nfl.com and you will see patriots fans doing the same to us.  

 

 

Of course.  And I understand.  But I hope you'll forgive me for inserting a patriots perspective in this Patriots thread on a Colts forum.  Just because this is a forum for one particular team does not mean you're entitled to an echo chamber.    Or that it would even be healthy for the forum to become one.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, George Peterson said:

Of course.  And I understand.  But I hope you'll forgive me for inserting a patriots perspective in this Patriots thread on a Colts forum.  Just because this is a forum for one particular team does not mean you're entitled to an echo chamber.    Or that it would even be healthy for the forum to become one.

sorry, but the sheer number of patriots fans make those sites feel like echo chambers 

[aaron11]

no one really defends the colts on the patriots forums

 

imagine how that would go

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Except that that allegation was thrown out of court because there's plenty of evidence that the Patriots TRIED to cooperate and the investigation was bungled badly by the NFL league office, with several left hands having no idea what right hands were doing. Brady actually got permission to destroy his phone on one hand while being accused of failing to cooperate with the investigation when he did on the other.

Just stop. You know it is a waist of time to come in this forum and non stop defend the Patriots but yet you do it anyway. At this point it's all in the past but by you coming in here does nothing but stir up bad feeling aimed at each other.

Don't you have any better things to do?

[George Peterson]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

no one really defends the colts on the patriots forums

 

imagine how that would go

There's really nothing to defend these days.  I mean as far as it goes on the Patriots forum I frequent is the occasional "**** the colts." which requires either a week to respond to or just needs ignoring. 

 

There was a lot of hostility to the Brissett trade but the people who were being hostile weren't doing it for a rational reason, when someone's hating irrationally, there's really nothing to say.

[George Peterson]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just stop. You know it is a waist of time to come in this forum and non stop defend the Patriots but yet you do it anyway. At this point it's all in the past but by you coming in here does nothing but stir up bad feeling aimed at each other.

Don't you have any better things to do?

Why do you think that it's me that's stirring up bad feeling?  You're the one who's spent this entire conversation on the attack. 

 

As I've explained repeatedly, there's a lot less fact behind your emotional hatred of the Patriots than you want to claim there is.  If you want to ignore that -- well maybe I need to take my own advice from my previous post.  But I still think there is room for a rational discussion of this stuff.

 

Oh hey -- and since this is now winding down to the "**** you, no **** you" phase of these discussions, I'd just like to throw this out there for the sake of anyone whose mind isn't completely closed.  This is a video compilation of some of the more common allegations of cheating against the Patriots by, of all things, an Arizona Cardinals fan.  Enjoy!

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, George Peterson said:

Why do you think that it's me that's stirring up bad feeling?  You're the one who's spent this entire conversation on the attack. 

 

As I've explained repeatedly, there's a lot less fact behind your emotional hatred of the Patriots than you want to claim there is.  If you want to ignore that -- well maybe I need to take my own advice from my previous post.  But I still think there is room for a rational discussion of this stuff.

 

Oh hey -- and since this is now winding down to the "**** you, no **** you" phase of these discussions, I'd just like to throw this out there for the sake of anyone whose mind isn't completely closed.  This is a video compilation of some of the more common allegations of cheating against the Patriots by, of all things, an Arizona Cardinals fan.  Enjoy!

 

 

You don't need to waist anymore of your time defending the Pats to me as you are now put on ignore just like 4 or 5 of the other Pats fans I have on ignore. Your arrogance wont let you let nothing go so I will.

[aaron11]

6 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

There's really nothing to defend these days.

the colts asked the league to look into something.  thats it

 

teams accuse each other of things all the time, especially tampering.  the colts had nothing to to with the wells report and were hardly mentioned at all.   i dont believe the ravens were mentioned period and they hate them over it too

 

they need to get over it, if they dont then dont expect us to change either 

 

[George Peterson]

28 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the colts asked the league to look into something.  thats it

 

teams accuse each other of things all the time, especially tampering.  the colts had nothing to to with the wells report and were hardly mentioned at all.   i dont believe the ravens were mentioned period and they hate them over it too

 

they need to get over it, if they dont then dont expect us to change either 

 

I don't think a single Pats fan doesn't want Colts fans to hate them.  It's a rivalry.  It's what we expect.  Just don't live in a lie by perpetuating an outright proven falsehood, and we're good. 

 

There's plenty of legitimate reasons to hate the Patriots right now, and to be honest, we kinda like it.  Hatred for a rival is a form of respect.  We hated you when you were good and Manning was getting the praise of the league, after all.  And we are the Evil Empire.  We are Goliath.  It's a role we've embraced.  We expect the nation to love it when someone pulls a David.  It's part of the fun.

 

Just hate us for what we are.  A professional machine designed and carefully molded to smash the hopes and dreams of the rest of the AFC.   That's what we deserve.

 

From our perspective, dwelling on stories of cheating when the people who started those stories later outright admitted they were mistaken, rather than embracing the hate based on what we really are, is just kind of frustrating and isn't a good look for you guys.  Give us the credit we're due, or in this case the hatred we're due as successful rivals.  It's not too much to ask.

 

It's not that we don't cheat.  Heck, we probably do, just like everyone else.  But if a 18 year run of unprecedented sustained success could be sustained simply by cheating and with no other effort made, then 31 other teams are doing something wrong.

[chad72]

It is time to retire this thread.  

[Buck Showalter]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:56 AM, George Peterson said:

Agree.  We need to load up like heck on defense.  We can't count on Luck until he's had a full healthy season, and in the worst case scenario we need to improve our defense and our offensive line to the point that we have a fighting chance with Brissett out there.

 

  Either way taking pressure off the quarterback is the order of the day.  We have to give our quarterback more weapons and depend on him less, whether it's a convalescent Luck or a downgrade to Brissett.  Developing the other facets of our team to the point that we could stick Brissett out there with a fair chance of success wouldn't hurt us even if Luck is healthy and Brissett never actually has to play a snap next year. 

You use at least 10 pronouns describing yourself a Colts fan here...

3 hours ago, George Peterson said:

Of course.  And I understand.  But I hope you'll forgive me for inserting a patriots perspective in this Patriots thread on a Colts forum.  Just because this is a forum for one particular team does not mean you're entitled to an echo chamber.    Or that it would even be healthy for the forum to become one.

Yet here you suggest you are enlightening Colts fans with a "patriots perspective"

On 2/9/2018 at 7:46 AM, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

2 hours ago, George Peterson said:

I don't think a single Pats fan doesn't want Colts fans to hate them.  It's a rivalry.  It's what we expect.  Just don't live in a lie by perpetuating an outright proven falsehood, and we're good. 

 

There's plenty of legitimate reasons to hate the Patriots right now, and to be honest, we kinda like it.  Hatred for a rival is a form of respect.  We hated you when you were good and Manning was getting the praise of the league, after all.  And we are the Evil Empire.  We are Goliath.  It's a role we've embraced.  We expect the nation to love it when someone pulls a David.  It's part of the fun.

 

Just hate us for what we are.  A professional machine designed and carefully molded to smash the hopes and dreams of the rest of the AFC.   That's what we deserve.

 

From our perspective, dwelling on stories of cheating when the people who started those stories later outright admitted they were mistaken, rather than embracing the hate based on what we really are, is just kind of frustrating and isn't a good look for you guys.  Give us the credit we're due, or in this case the hatred we're due as successful rivals.  It's not too much to ask.

 

It's not that we don't cheat.  Heck, we probably do, just like everyone else.  But if a 18 year run of unprecedented sustained success could be sustained simply by cheating and with no other effort made, then 31 other teams are doing something wrong.

Then you suggest there is no rivalry between teams & in a later post you say it is in fact a rivalry...

 

??? Pretty much all over the place with your posting, which some could consider a passive aggressive attempt at baiting & instigating posters into purposeful arguements, which is the definition of trolling...

[George Peterson]

Not a deliberate attempt to troll, but I'll admit to being all over the place.  I actually like both teams, as odd as that sounds.  I gravitated over here in the wake of the Brissett trade, so I'm still kind of figuring out whether I have a place here and what it might be.

 

And I'm a lot better at sounding certain of what I'm talking about than being certain, if you take my meaning. 

 

I'm a bit of a roleplayer, and I come from very much a creative-writing background.  I believe very strongly in trying to see all sides of things, and to do that I sometimes immerse myself in a thought process and figure out what it means as I go along, and it can be a different thought process with each and every post.  At different times, I might take on different personas.  It's a thing I do as I try to make sense of things in my mind.  Throw on top of that the fact that i'm a very experimental thinker and will sometimes throw out ideas i just thought of as if I believed them all my life, and it results in people who try to analyze me as if I had one and only one perspective being left badly confused from time to time.

 

It's not that I don't understand how that could be very annoying, it's that annoying people isn't the plan.  This is part of how I cope with reality and it always has been.

 

I don't expect you to fully understand but at least I hope that made at least some sense.

[Buck Showalter]

18 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Not a deliberate attempt to troll, but I'll admit to being all over the place.  I actually like both teams, as odd as that sounds.  I gravitated over here in the wake of the Brissett trade, so I'm still kind of figuring out whether I have a place here and what it might be.

 

And I'm a lot better at sounding certain of what I'm talking about than being certain, if you take my meaning. 

 

I'm a bit of a roleplayer, and I come from very much a creative-writing background.  I believe very strongly in trying to see all sides of things, and to do that I sometimes immerse myself in a thought process and figure out what it means as I go along, and it can be a different thought process with each and every post.  At different times, I might take on different personas.  It's a thing I do as I try to make sense of things in my mind.  Throw on top of that the fact that i'm a very experimental thinker and will sometimes throw out ideas i just thought of as if I believed them all my life, and it results in people who try to analyze me as if I had one and only one perspective being left badly confused from time to time.

 

It's not that I don't understand how that could be very annoying, it's that annoying people isn't the plan.  This is part of how I cope with reality and it always has been.

 

I don't expect you to fully understand but at least I hope that made at least some sense.

 

Yes AM, I think I know what you are talking about...

[George Peterson]

I'm sorry if I've been causing problems.  I'm just here to talk football.  But like all fans of a team, I have my buttons, and Deflategate in particular is one of them.

[horseshoecrabs]

All I can say is good luck with that, But  I know I wouldn't  go on the Patriots website and try to play the devil's advocate. Unless you just like abuse. You might want to decide which team you like the most and give the other one up.

 

[George Peterson]

1 hour ago, horseshoecrabs said:

All I can say is good luck with that, But  I know I wouldn't  go on the Patriots website and try to play the devil's advocate. Unless you just like abuse. You might want to decide which team you like the most and give the other one up.

 

 

See things from only one perspective?  How boring...

[horseshoecrabs]

3 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

 

See things from only one perspective?  How boring...

That's what being a fan of one team's about 

[George Peterson]

1 hour ago, horseshoecrabs said:

That's what being a fan of one team's about 

But is that the only way to be a fan of football?

[horseshoecrabs]

2 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

But is that the only way to be a fan of football?

Unfortunately  yes , otherwise you are a lost soul searching endlessly  for the meaning of life grasshopper . If you need reference check out David Carridine  in  Kung Fu TV   show of the 70's .

[Buck Showalter]

3 hours ago, George Peterson said:

I'm sorry if I've been causing problems.  I'm just here to talk football.  But like all fans of a team, I have my buttons, and Deflategate in particular is one of them.

LOL...

Sneaky sneaky AM, catfishing a football forum, that's a new one. How many aliases are you up to now???

[Gramz]

4 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

 

Yes AM, I think I know what you are talking about...

OMG  my thoughts exactly

[2006Coltsbestever]

AM is still apparently upset that her QB got suspended for 4 games and will always have that on his record. Reason why Tom fought that incident so hard is because he didn't want that on his record. It's like a blemish because people will look at their SB win but still say he cheated since Goodell suspended him for 4 games. Without that blemish, Tom would've been absolved of any wrong doing so it was big for him to get out of that mess and big for the Pats fans as well deep down.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Gramz said:

OMG  my thoughts exactly

You too? 

[Gramz]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You too? 

you too?  it's pretty obvious.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Gramz said:

you too?  it's pretty obvious.

Yes it is strange when I have one of those "duh moments"

[JimJaime]

Ok, first the article saying BB promised to show McDaniels the ins and outs to be a great head coach was a REPRINR of the very same article some TEN years ago. KRAFT 2 days before he got cold feet said he pay him more money to stay. McDaniels decided last minute to stay, no assurances being BB successor, no promise of anything. It some $$.  IMO he is scared of leaving his. Only in Brady and BB.