Mike Mayock on Marcus Davenport

[Coltsfan0112]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewSiciliano/status/955579911074467840/video/1

 

At 1:25 of the clip Mike Mayock talks about Marcus. Very intriguing!! If a possible trade down scenario this may be a option.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Here's yet another top evaluator calling Davenport a 1st rounder.

 

That's four.    Mayock, Jeremiah, Kiper and McShay.

 

And by the way,   in a column that ran probably in November on NFL.com,  they quoted an unnamed NFL front office type who basically said....     The secret is out on Davenport,  he'll go in the first round,  probably in the middle.

 

And that was in November.

 

Mayock used a word on Davenport that I always want to hear/read on a defensive prospect....  "motor"...   as in a good one...    And it's also being used for Chubb.     The playerrs who didn't quite have a top motor unless they were in the mood to were...  Garrett and Clowney.    They're much better athletes than Chubb and Davenport.    But that's a relative term.    Chubb and Davenport are very, very good athletes with top skills.     And everyone expects them to test out that way.....

 

Color me interested.      Very interested.

 

[Superman]

Davenport is kind of all over the place. His lower body and upper body aren't always in sync, he'll get out over his feet and over-extend, get all twisted up, trip over himself, etc. He's a little gangly and awkward.

 

But the tools... my goodness. First, raw power, especially his punch. He shocks and jolts the man across from him almost every down, bullying the blocker off balance and into retreat. It's amazing how consistently his initial punch completely devastates tackles, and forget about TEs.

 

His length allows him to get his hands on the blockers pads and take control of the matchup. He'll one-arm blockers, turning them into matadors as they get turned sideways and allow Davenport to penetrate the line.

 

He has initial burst and covers a lot of ground with his first two steps. Sufficient bend/flatten to get the corner and tear off toward the QB, but he's not a 90 degree guy like Von Miller, not even close. I think he'll have average workout numbers for an edge rusher. He's mostly in a two point stance; I see no reason he can't play with a hand in the dirt.

 

I haven't seen him anchor the edge against the run; he's more interested in defeating his man than maintaining leverage and setting the edge. Not that he can't; if he settles down, he can easily handle TEs on the strong side, and if he uses his length he's a good matchup against tackles. 

 

His technique and rush strategy need a lot of refinement. He really doesn't know what he's doing, and is winning with effort and talent alone against inferior competition in a mid-major conference. If he can develop the skills to sync up his hands and feet, stay in proper position, and continue to refine the way he uses his hands and length, he can be a really good edge rusher.

 

Mike Mayock compared him with Demarcus Ware, primarily because he's at a smaller school, even though he looks longer/bigger than Ware, and plays different. 

[OffensivelyPC]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

Davenport is kind of all over the place. His lower body and upper body aren't always in sync, he'll get out over his feet and over-extend, get all twisted up, trip over himself, etc. He's a little gangly and awkward.

 

But the tools... my goodness. First, raw power, especially his punch. He shocks and jolts the man across from him almost every down, bullying the blocker off balance and into retreat. It's amazing how consistently his initial punch completely devastates tackles, and forget about TEs.

 

His length allows him to get his hands on the blockers pads and take control of the matchup. He'll one-arm blockers, turning them into matadors as they get turned sideways and allow Davenport to penetrate the line.

 

He has initial burst and covers a lot of ground with his first two steps. Sufficient bend/flatten to get the corner and tear off toward the QB, but he's not a 90 degree guy like Von Miller, not even close. I think he'll have average workout numbers for an edge rusher. He's mostly in a two point stance; I see no reason he can't play with a hand in the dirt.

 

I haven't seen him anchor the edge against the run; he's more interested in defeating his man than maintaining leverage and setting the edge. Not that he can't; if he settles down, he can easily handle TEs on the strong side, and if he uses his length he's a good matchup against tackles. 

 

His technique and rush strategy need a lot of refinement. He really doesn't know what he's doing, and is winning with effort and talent alone against inferior competition in a mid-major conference. If he can develop the skills to sync up his hands and feet, stay in proper position, and continue to refine the way he uses his hands and length, he can be a really good edge rusher.

 

Mike Mayock compared him with Demarcus Ware, primarily because he's at a smaller school, even though he looks longer/bigger than Ware, and plays different. 

Which game did you watch?  I agree with your opinion that he seems more interested in penetrating teh backfield as if every down was a pass.  Though against the Tex. St. Bobcats, there were times he did hold an edge.  While disinterested is a strong word, his effort didn't appear as obvious on those downs compared to his motor on pass rushes.  Another thing where his vertical movement off the line to penetrate the quarterback is outstanding, he doesn't seem to move laterally well, either.  Whether he's squeezing the edge or moving outside to track the ball carrier, he just seems slower.  If you're going to invest high draft collateral into the guy, you might have to move him in as a 3-tech from time to time so he will be more effective on the more obvious run downs.  Also, I love his violent hands, but he seems to get stuck a little long on the hand fights a bit too long sometimes; maybe that's because he doesn't have a secondary or counter rush move. 

 

For a good laugh, watch the tape with him against the Mean Green at 0:41-0:51.  Freakin Night Train out there, lol.

[Superman]

43 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Which game did you watch?  I agree with your opinion that he seems more interested in penetrating teh backfield as if every down was a pass.  Though against the Tex. St. Bobcats, there were times he did hold an edge.  While disinterested is a strong word, his effort didn't appear as obvious on those downs compared to his motor on pass rushes.  Another thing where his vertical movement off the line to penetrate the quarterback is outstanding, he doesn't seem to move laterally well, either.  Whether he's squeezing the edge or moving outside to track the ball carrier, he just seems slower.  If you're going to invest high draft collateral into the guy, you might have to move him in as a 3-tech from time to time so he will be more effective on the more obvious run downs.  Also, I love his violent hands, but he seems to get stuck a little long on the hand fights a bit too long sometimes; maybe that's because he doesn't have a secondary or counter rush move. 

 

For a good laugh, watch the tape with him against the Mean Green at 0:41-0:51.  Freakin Night Train out there, lol.

 

I only watched North Texas and Texas State. I want to see him be disciplined on the edge, two-gap and close off the corner. A stack and shed would be nice, but just the first part -- keeping proper leverage, keeping account of the back and making him stay inside -- is what good edge players do against the run. The great ones discard the blocker whenever they want and make the play. Davenport was inconsistent in either area.

 

Part of that is what you said, he gets stuck on blocks, partly because he doesn't have well coordinated moves. He's more likely to come upfield to defeat his man, but wind up completely out of position to defend the play side. 

 

Playing him at 3 tech is an intriguing option I hadn't considered, but if you want a guy to shoot gaps and disrupt, it's worth a shot. I doubt he has the ability to anchor in the middle against the run, especially against double teams, but if you played him there on passing downs he could be a handful. Not exactly what I want to do with my edge defender; he should be on the edge on passing downs, especially at 260 pounds.

 

I'll go back and check out the clip you mentioned...

[lollygagger8]

Trade down to a QB hungry team, get the extra picks, and take Davenport. 

[Surge89]

Ew.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 1/23/2018 at 2:58 PM, Superman said:

Davenport is kind of all over the place. His lower body and upper body aren't always in sync, he'll get out over his feet and over-extend, get all twisted up, trip over himself, etc. He's a little gangly and awkward.

 

But the tools... my goodness. First, raw power, especially his punch. He shocks and jolts the man across from him almost every down, bullying the blocker off balance and into retreat. It's amazing how consistently his initial punch completely devastates tackles, and forget about TEs.

 

His length allows him to get his hands on the blockers pads and take control of the matchup. He'll one-arm blockers, turning them into matadors as they get turned sideways and allow Davenport to penetrate the line.

 

He has initial burst and covers a lot of ground with his first two steps. Sufficient bend/flatten to get the corner and tear off toward the QB, but he's not a 90 degree guy like Von Miller, not even close. I think he'll have average workout numbers for an edge rusher. He's mostly in a two point stance; I see no reason he can't play with a hand in the dirt.

 

I haven't seen him anchor the edge against the run; he's more interested in defeating his man than maintaining leverage and setting the edge. Not that he can't; if he settles down, he can easily handle TEs on the strong side, and if he uses his length he's a good matchup against tackles. 

 

His technique and rush strategy need a lot of refinement. He really doesn't know what he's doing, and is winning with effort and talent alone against inferior competition in a mid-major conference. If he can develop the skills to sync up his hands and feet, stay in proper position, and continue to refine the way he uses his hands and length, he can be a really good edge rusher.

 

Mike Mayock compared him with Demarcus Ware, primarily because he's at a smaller school, even though he looks longer/bigger than Ware, and plays different. 

IYO is he better than Chubb?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

IYO is he better than Chubb?

 

Noooooo, no, no, no. I can't imagine that anyone would think he's better than Chubb.

 

I haven't watched enough players to start thinking about who belongs in the first round, but Davenport doesn't look like a first rounder, to me. He also doesn't have the kind of elite production that I would want to see from a mid-major guy if I were putting him in the first round.

[BlueShoe]

On 1/23/2018 at 3:15 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here's yet another top evaluator calling Davenport a 1st rounder.

 

That's four.    Mayock, Jeremiah, Kiper and McShay.

 

And by the way,   in a column that ran probably in November on NFL.com,  they quoted an unnamed NFL front office type who basically said....     The secret is out on Davenport,  he'll go in the first round,  probably in the middle.

 

And that was in November.

 

Mayock used a word on Davenport that I always want to hear/read on a defensive prospect....  "motor"...   as in a good one...    And it's also being used for Chubb.     The playerrs who didn't quite have a top motor unless they were in the mood to were...  Garrett and Clowney.    They're much better athletes than Chubb and Davenport.    But that's a relative term.    Chubb and Davenport are very, very good athletes with top skills.     And everyone expects them to test out that way.....

 

Color me interested.      Very interested.

 

 

Yep. And they’re moving him inside at the Senior Bowl practices, just because they already know he can rush from the edge.  Scouts are watching two reps of him and waking away satisfied. 

 

He looks very impressive. I think he is a possible JPP clone. A lot of these Chubb fans are going to be surprised when Davenport gets drafted before him. 

[BlueShoe]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Noooooo, no, no, no. I can't imagine that anyone would think he's better than Chubb.

 

I haven't watched enough players to start thinking about who belongs in the first round, but Davenport doesn't look like a first rounder, to me. He also doesn't have the kind of elite production that I would want to see from a mid-major guy if I were putting him in the first round.

 

Watch JPP in college. Then put Davenport’s tape on. Then you’ll see it. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Noooooo, no, no, no. I can't imagine that anyone would think he's better than Chubb.

 

I haven't watched enough players to start thinking about who belongs in the first round, but Davenport doesn't look like a first rounder, to me. He also doesn't have the kind of elite production that I would want to see from a mid-major guy if I were putting him in the first round.

 

I don't think for a minute that Davenport is better than Chubb or will be drafted ahead of him.

 

But....

 

I do think Davenport is a first rounder.   All day long.   A lot of the draft is about projection.   What can a player become with NFL coaching?

 

Remember Ziggy Ansah.   He was completely raw.  Went 5th overall and now looks to cash in.   Scouts like gambling on greatness.  Potentially, Davenport could be great.

[stitches]

Draft people are not impressed with his performance at the senior bowl:

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/marino-senior-bowl-rapid-reaction-day-2/

 

• Quote

  UTSA DE Marcus Davenport was expected to steal the show but has done anything but that through two days. Small-school offensive lineman Brandon Parker and Alex Cappa have dominated him in one-on-one’s. Teams love his physical gifts but he isn’t performing like a player destined to be a first round pick.

   

 

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/crabbs-ranking-edge-defenders-two-days-senior-bowl/

 

Quote

 

7. Marcus Davenport, UTSA

Davenport was the toast of the town coming in, but he’s been one of the biggest disappointments as well. Davenport was hardly complimentary of his own efforts on Tuesday.

Things weren’t much better on Wednesday for Davenport, who failed to win a single pass rush rep against Brandon Parker and Alex Cappa. Davenport scored a stop during the team drill against an inside run, but that’s about the only thing he’s had cooking through two days.

 

 

 

[krunk]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Noooooo, no, no, no. I can't imagine that anyone would think he's better than Chubb.

 

I haven't watched enough players to start thinking about who belongs in the first round, but Davenport doesn't look like a first rounder, to me. He also doesn't have the kind of elite production that I would want to see from a mid-major guy if I were putting him in the first round.

100 percent agree

[Surge89]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

Draft people are not impressed with his performance at the senior bowl:

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/marino-senior-bowl-rapid-reaction-day-2/

 

•  

 

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/crabbs-ranking-edge-defenders-two-days-senior-bowl/

 

 

 

 

Know who I am loving?  The guard out of UTEP and Cappa.  Those 2 kids can play! 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Surge89 said:

 

Know who I am loving?  The guard out of UTEP and Cappa.  Those 2 kids can play! 

Haha, I just posted  thread about them + Isaiah Wynn... check it out here: 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I only watched North Texas and Texas State. I want to see him be disciplined on the edge, two-gap and close off the corner. A stack and shed would be nice, but just the first part -- keeping proper leverage, keeping account of the back and making him stay inside -- is what good edge players do against the run. The great ones discard the blocker whenever they want and make the play. Davenport was inconsistent in either area.

 

Part of that is what you said, he gets stuck on blocks, partly because he doesn't have well coordinated moves. He's more likely to come upfield to defeat his man, but wind up completely out of position to defend the play side. 

 

Playing him at 3 tech is an intriguing option I hadn't considered, but if you want a guy to shoot gaps and disrupt, it's worth a shot. I doubt he has the ability to anchor in the middle against the run, especially against double teams, but if you played him there on passing downs he could be a handful. Not exactly what I want to do with my edge defender; he should be on the edge on passing downs, especially at 260 pounds.

 

I'll go back and check out the clip you mentioned...

As a 3 tech, it would just give you versatility if he could be effective.  Not necessarily an every down solution, but one that can maximize (if he can do it, anyway) his play time.  I don't know in the slightest if its even a viable solution; I don't recall him lining up as anything other than a 5 tech. 

 

He definitely seems to lack a plan of attack.  His upper body strength and burst off the line is obviously his strength, but a more controlled punch off the line is what he's really lacking.  Like you said, he gets so caught up in penetrating that he gets out of position.  I'm not terribly concerned that he won't develop against the run, but he will not be able to rely on only his freakish strength and violent nature at the next level.  I question whether that will inhibit his effectiveness as a whole.

 

I think he'll also struggle until he develops a counter rush move once his power rush stalls out.  I don't think I ever saw a spin move or rip inside, for instance.  There's only two games to watch, but still, something you'd like to see at least on an occasion a couple times in any given game.

 

A raw prospect who doesn't have the athleticism to be a high 1st rounder, IMO.  Under the right coaching and probably limited play time as a backup.situational defender is probably what he really needs so that he can refine his technique and learn the nuances of the position.  That's a lot of patience to expect from a 1st rounder, IMO.  If he tests out of the ball park - which I don't expect - someone will take the plunge.  If not, probably a Day 2 prospect.  

 

(EDIT: There is a tape of him against Baylor.  

 I'm not through all of it yet, but you'll see his weaknesses exposed a bit more and it isn't that encouraging.)

[krunk]

As I've stated before in posts before this thread and it's just my opinion.   I think the projection is based on what could be do to his size, quickness and other intangibles because there's not a whole lot there other than that to justify a high first round pick.   Blows my mind how they even have this guy projected over Arden Key who has already proven he can play against the best of the best.  They have this guy rated over Harold Landry who is a much better prospect.  And the kicker is Davenport hasn't even dominated on the small school level in any year.  And these are the same guys who sat up there and rated Ngakoue as a third round prospect despite all of his production.   When I turn on the tape I don't see Robert Mathis,    I don't even see Tanoh Kspagannon production and that's who I think this kid is most similar to.  He's compares somewhat to  this years Tanoh Kspagannon.   It's early so I think when it's all said and done after the live practices they will cool off on him and adjust their projections down to where I personally think he is 2nd to 4th round.  

[OffensivelyPC]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think for a minute that Davenport is better than Chubb or will be drafted ahead of him.

 

But....

 

I do think Davenport is a first rounder.   All day long.   A lot of the draft is about projection.   What can a player become with NFL coaching?

 

Remember Ziggy Ansah.   He was completely raw.  Went 5th overall and now looks to cash in.   Scouts like gambling on greatness.  Potentially, Davenport could be great.

Ansah showed more pass rush ability and played the run a lot better.  Plus I highly doubt that  Davenport tests nearly as well, particularly in the cone drills.  But Davenport doesn't routinely utilize anything other than a bull rush - and that's against much inferior competition.  Davenport's not an Ansah, but even if his flaws are of asimilar nature as Ansah's, Davenport's are more exasperated.  He might be a first round pick, but I hope he's not hours (ie. not talking about #3 overall, but if we traded back into the 1st with our 2nd).  

[OffensivelyPC]

23 minutes ago, krunk said:

As I've stated before in posts before this thread and it's just my opinion.   I think the projection is based on what could be do to his size, quickness and other intangibles because there's not a whole lot there other than that to justify a high first round pick.   Blows my mind how they even have this guy projected over Arden Key who has already proven he can play against the best of the best.  They have this guy rated over Harold Landry who is a much better prospect.  And the kicker is Davenport hasn't even dominated on the small school level in any year.  And these are the same guys who sat up there and rated Ngakoue as a third round prospect despite all of his production.   When I turn on the tape I don't see Robert Mathis,    I don't even see Tanoh Kspagannon production and that's who I think this kid is most similar to.  He's compares somewhat to  this years Tanoh Kspagannon.   It's early so I think when it's all said and done after the live practices they will cool off on him and adjust their projections down to where I personally think he is 2nd to 4th round.  

The more I watch his film, the more I think he's a Day 2 pick.  

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

The more I watch his film, the more I think he's a Day 2 pick.  

I could even see high Third Round.   If Ngakuoe went there then I can definitely see this kid still being around at that point.

[OffensivelyPC]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

I could even see high Third Round.   If Ngakuoe went there then I can definitely see this kid still being around at that point.

Ngakoue was one of those guys who looked good on tape, but you were concerned about his physical attributes - height, length and the sort.  I forget who got me onto him a couple years ago, but I liked his film, just didn't like his size and questioned how much it would effect his draft stock - like everyone else really.  I thought the 3rd round was fair, but ambitious.  I never expected him to play as well as he has, good call on whoever it was.

[jshipp23]

Senior Bowl killed this kid's draft stock....

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

As I've stated before in posts before this thread and it's just my opinion.   I think the projection is based on what could be do to his size, quickness and other intangibles because there's not a whole lot there other than that to justify a high first round pick.   Blows my mind how they even have this guy projected over Arden Key who has already proven he can play against the best of the best.  They have this guy rated over Harold Landry who is a much better prospect.  And the kicker is Davenport hasn't even dominated on the small school level in any year.  And these are the same guys who sat up there and rated Ngakoue as a third round prospect despite all of his production.   When I turn on the tape I don't see Robert Mathis,    I don't even see Tanoh Kspagannon production and that's who I think this kid is most similar to.  He's compares somewhat to  this years Tanoh Kspagannon.   It's early so I think when it's all said and done after the live practices they will cool off on him and adjust their projections down to where I personally think he is 2nd to 4th round.  

 

From the prospect category where draft busts come from.
He May turn out to be very good, like our safety Green. But better as 3rd or 4th rd prospects.

[stitches]

There is something fishy with the way ESPN and NFL Network are pushing Davenport. This is McShay's writeup on Davenport's performance so far:

 

 

Mayok compared him to Clowney 3 times during the reps he was losing on screen. This is outrageous. According to multiple non-ESPN, non-NFL network related analysts and in my humble opinion, Davenport has looked really bad so far. As in  - he is yet to win a single rep against Division 2 tackles bad...  I don't know what's happening, but do NOT trust what the big NFL media giants are telling you. Watch his performance for yourselves and form your own opinion. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/25/2018 at 7:28 AM, OffensivelyPC said:

Ansah showed more pass rush ability and played the run a lot better.  Plus I highly doubt that  Davenport tests nearly as well, particularly in the cone drills.  But Davenport doesn't routinely utilize anything other than a bull rush - and that's against much inferior competition.  Davenport's not an Ansah, but even if his flaws are of asimilar nature as Ansah's, Davenport's are more exasperated.  He might be a first round pick, but I hope he's not hours (ie. not talking about #3 overall, but if we traded back into the 1st with our 2nd).  

 

 

At at this stage of our rebuild, I doubt Ballard would trade back into first round.   It's just so expensive to trade up into the first round.   I think Ballard would want more draft picks, not less.  And at this point, I doubt Davenport falls that far.

 

If I may, one story that Ballard has shared...   when he was at KC, a few years back, they were considering taking Chris Jones, a raw DL from Mississippi St who was coming out a year early.  Ballard was of the view that Jones wouldn't offer much his rookie year.   John Dorsey, the GM (now at Cleve) asked Ballard where he thought Jones would get drafted if he went back to school for another year.  Ballard said top-10 overall maybe even top-5.   The Chiefs took Jones in the 50's.

 

My point is that many GMs will take a raw talent based on what he can be with pro coaching.   They have tools that can't be coached.   What Davenport lacks can be coached, and what he has can't be coached.   From everything I read, that feels like Davenport.

 

Now,  I don't know if this view will apply to Ballard with a first round pick.   It may only be applicable to second round and below?   Dunno?    But there are too many voices saying Davenport goes in the first round for me to think otherwise. 

 

Apologies this went so long.   I'd also like to continue our discussion of the RB class...   appreciate your time and thoughts...

 

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

50 minutes ago, stitches said:

There is something fishy with the way ESPN and NFL Network are pushing Davenport. This is McShay's writeup on Davenport's performance so far:

 

 

Mayok compared him to Clowney 3 times during the reps he was losing on screen. This is outrageous. According to multiple non-ESPN, non-NFL network related analysts and in my humble opinion, Davenport has looked really bad so far. As in  - he is yet to win a single rep against Division 2 tackles bad...  I don't know what's happening, but do NOT trust what the big NFL media giants are telling you. Watch his performance for yourselves and form your own opinion. 

I don't know what he's watching.  Certainly not the Baylor game.  He got manhandled throughout.  And he wasn't making "tackles" for loss in the 4th.  He had one tackle, and he didn't make it for a loss.  I didn't watch the senior bowl practice, but you can't really take those guys seriously until they've spent enough resources talking to NFL scouts/execs/etc. about the draft class.  And their opinions don't start to come into focus until at the very least after the combine.  And even then, you have no way of knowing how much of that information is intentionally to mislead others.  I mean how much misinformation is put out there by the pro scouts, coaches, GMs and everyone?  

[OffensivelyPC]

35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

At at this stage if our rebuild, I doubt Ballard would trade back into first round.   It's just so expensive to trade up into the first round.   And st this point, I doubt Davenport falls that far.

 

If I may, one story that Ballard has shared...   when he was at KC, a few years back, they were considering taking Chris Jones, a raw DL from Mississippi St who was coming out a year early.  Ballard was of the view that Jones wouldn't offer much his rookie year.   John Dorsey, the GM (now at Cleve) asked Ballatd where he thought Jones would get drafted if he went back to school for another year.  Ballard said top-10 overall maybe even top-5.   The Chiefs took Jones in the 50's.

 

My point is that many GMs will take a raw talent based on what he can be with pro coaching.   They have tools that can't be coached.   What Davenport lacks can be coached, and what he has can't be coached.   From everything I read, that feels like Davenport.

 

Now,  I don't know if this view will apply to Ballard with a first round pick.   It may only be applicable to second round and below?   Dunno?    But there are too many voices saying Davenport goes in the first round for me to think otherwise. 

 

Apologies this went so long.   I'd also like to continue our discussion of the RB class...   appreciate your time and thoughts...

 

 

 

I'm always game to hear about my evaluations of certain players.  Particularly those that have fantasy relevance potential.  I'll revisit them if someone sees something I don't and I'll put their opinion to the test.  I can be won over - which by the way, Kalen Badge was a guy I've changed my opinion on.  Not because of anything anyone said about his senior bowl practice, but some of the opinions about him were not at all what I was seeing on film.  Turns out, I watched one game of him - all I had time for at that moment - and thought he was bad enough I wasn't going to waste time watching more.  Apparently I just watched a really bad game of his.

 

About Davenport, raw talent is just one aspect and there has to be a body of tools and refinement of those tools to justify drafting them.  I remember a player in 2016 named Justin Zimmer.  And, like Davenport, he had all the physical attributes and the kid wasn't even drafted.  Then you have players like you mentioned such as Ezekiel Ansah, who have all the physical attributes with some of the nuances of his position already coached up some.  How far you have to develop a player through coaching is the question.  Unlike college, you are not guaranteed 4 years on a roster, even if on a rookie deal.  So there is a huge push for players to be established to some level.  Guys like Justin Zimmer might get a chance, but if they don't develop quickly enough, they're discarded because roster space is valuable.  Guys like Ansah will get more time because of the investment.  The balancing act is knowing which traits outside of physical attributes can be coached up and if they can, projecting how long it will take.  And often times, that requires more than simply offseason camp, practices, etc. - i.e. they have to see game time snaps. 

 

Your Ballard example even proves that.  He was a Jr. and went to tthe draft, but because he was missing some NFL desirable traits, he went in the 2nd round.  Had he stayed a year and improved them, it would make him a top 15 pick.  In Davenport's case, I'm sure there will be plenty of disagreement where he would fall on the spectrum of prospects who require coachable progress.  Based on what I've seen, without any scouting reports available as far as I know, my opinion is that he is draftable, but he lacks the tools to be on the field every down as of today.  He can develop those tools over time, but projecting how long that will take is something that relaly none of us can know unless we coach NFL players for a living (even then its an imperfect science).  In short, the longer it might take, the further down the draft he goes.  I think the reason I push him further down the list is that, aside from his physical tools, he needs more than just technique refinement.  He needs to be taught how to pass rush beyond just overpowering his opponent, then improve the technique of those pass rush moves, refine his ability as a run defender, and the part that I think he'll struggle with the most is simply slowing the game way down.  I see a guy who doesn't process a ton of things at once while he's executing a planned out pass rush.  He diagnoses, but while he's doing practically the same thing every play (which by the way, the bull rush is the first move you generally learn from a pass rush perspective). 

 

If I were to guess, Day 2, and I'd probably lean personally toward Round 3.  I'm incline to push him further down the list, but while I don't completely disregard people like McShay's rankings, I still think that guys like that probably know more than I do even if I sometimes wonder if he's watching something I'm not.  Other guys might feel different, and that's cool.  I'm sure NFL scouts, talent evaluators, player personnel directors and GMs have a similar discourse as well.  

 

[stitches]

Davenport looked more disruptive in the final scrimmage than he did at any point during the week, 

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:25 PM, lollygagger8 said:

Trade down to a QB hungry team, get the extra picks, and take Davenport. 

Is he a fit?.

[BlueShoe]

You guys crack me up.

 

Small school kid comes to the Senior Bowl, and it takes him time to figure out the speed, with a higher level of competition. Who would have thought that a gifted athlete might actually have to adjust to better techniques than he is used to seeing?

 

Behold, look what he does on Day 3. LOL

 

Davenport is going to skyrocket during this draft process. 

 

If you guys don't see a young JPP in Davenport, then we are absolutely not watching football the same way.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

15 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Is he a fit?.

 

Luckily, that's for the GM of the Colts to decide  

[krunk]

I don't see a young JPP.   JPP had way better sack production coming out of college. There was already much proof JPP could effect the QB.  Unless you're talking about similar sizes.   That's about it to me.

[jshipp23]

All I kept hearing was how bad he looked in practice...Looks like he redeemed his self in the game though...

[stitches]

On 1/28/2018 at 10:18 PM, jshipp23 said:

All I kept hearing was how bad he looked in practice...Looks like he redeemed his self in the game though...

He did, he looked real good in the game, but keep in mind he was matched against another overhyped player - Brian O'Neill for all of his splash plays.