Destiny for the next Patriots tri-fecta

[Jules]

Oh the Pats will win. And they have to for the sake of my fiance's sanity who was born and raised in Worcester, MA and just really gets into the Pats for the postseason hard after sleeping through the regular season it seems. But we all have to make sacrifices in a relationship. I don't care if the Pats wins and he is taking me to a Justin Timberlake concert in April. I scratch his back and he scratches mine. 

 

 

[Yehoodi]

7 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

The ruling on the field was a fumble, not an incomplete pass/interception, and he wasn't ever touched by Lewis once the ball was stripped. I get that it was a bang bang play, and in real time it's difficult to access everything that's going on, but that was a mistake, in my opinion.

 

 

 

Short Answer

 

Yes i know it was not a pass, but the rules for gaining possession for a pass and loose ball (fumble) are the same and I just used the WR analogy as most folks have seen this before with down by contact.  i guess a better analogy would of been a ball on the ground and a defender grabs it while his foot is touching an opponent and he gets up but he is down by contact.

 

In the video, which i hope comes through, Jack was down by contact at the 0:46 as their hands were touching when Jack gained his initial control by pinning the ball to his stomach.  The ball is clearly pinned to Jack's stomach and their fingers are engaged at the point where Lewis's behind is about 3 inches from Jack's shoulder. 

 

 

 

Long Answer (only if you have the time, thanks) (sorry response is longer than anticipated)

 

A ball is loose and thus a fumble when it is dislodged, it need not hit the ground.  Any player may gain possession of a loose ball but must following the same rules as a WR for being credited with possession (they are two different rules but have the exact same elements).  For going to the ground one needs the extra element of surviving the ground, that is the ball does not go dead (hits ground on pass reception, or is out of bounds on pass reception or fumble recovery), before you survive the ground, which is basically hitting the ground with control and a momentary pause on the ground or second move (getting up, reaching ball, etc).

 

For going to the ground we need the following for being credited with possession of the ball

 

1) Control (need not be two hands, it can be pinned to body)

2) Two feet down, or body part north of the knee down 

3) Survive the ground (see above)

 

So lets see what happens . . .

 

First, at 0:34 mark Jack knocks the ball from Lewis' grip and thus at this point it is deemed a loose ball, Lewis no longer has possession, anyone can gain possession of this loose ball, it need not hit the ground. 

  

Second, the first person that has a shot at recovery is Lewis who at the 0:36 mark has pinned the ball to his hip via his forearm (control) and is down as his body is down, but he is not able to complete item 3 as the ball is ripped from him before he survives the ground (no momentary pause before strip)

 

Third, Jack now has a shot and at the 0:46 mark as he has, like Lewis above, gained control of the ball by pinning it to his stomach via his left forearm, then body is down and as he rolls over and gets up he has survived the ground and thus completed the elements of possession and is a fumble recovery. 

 

However, the down by contact can happen at any moment up and including as early as the initial control.  You will see at the 0:46 and at a point when Lewis hip is about a baseball size away from Jack's shoulder, that Jack has control of the ball (pinned to stomach), and his fingers of his left hand are in contact with Lewis fingers of his right hand.  At that point there is contact by an opponent at the time the players had control.

 

Yes it was a bang bang play, but in the end it is nearly impossible to rib a ball from someone without any bobbling and not contact the former in some way.  Surely, this would of been different it at around the 0:45-0:46 mark the ball spun in the air above the players and landing in Jack's chest, and thus no touching as Jack would of been separated from Lewis.   

 

Yes it was a harsh call, but in defense of the refs they might of thought that Lewis never fumbled and thus play is dead, also, the whistle blew and some pats players stopped, and lastly there is some contact, however slight or brief, when Jack pins the ball and maintains control of it.

 

 

 

[chad72]

Hey, it seems similar to the path Michael Jordan followed.

 

Jordan had 2 years of lull (1994-1995) before the second 3-peat.

 

Brady had 2 failed SBs before the possible second tri-fecta.

 

The only nitpicky difference is Brady has only 5 characters in his last name, Jordan has 6.

 

My head is spinning coining all these patterns and similarities, I will stop now.  

[chad72]

On 1/30/2018 at 2:24 PM, chad72 said:

Hey, it seems similar to the path Michael Jordan followed.

 

Jordan had 2 years of lull (1994-1995) before the second 3-peat.

 

Brady had 2 failed SBs before the possible second tri-fecta.

 

The only nitpicky difference is Brady has only 5 characters in his last name, Jordan has 6.

 

My head is spinning coining all these patterns and similarities, I will stop now.  

 

It is the last name, hahaha!!! 5 for Brady, 6 for Jordan.

 

[Jules]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

It is the last name, hahaha!!! 5 for Brady, 6 for Jordan.

 

 

I know exactly what you were doing, the jinx. I seen you on forums long enough pal. ;) 

 

I felt the same things you were for two weeks. 

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

I know exactly what you were doing, the jinx. I seen you on forums long enough pal. ;) 

 

I felt the same things you were for two weeks. 

 

Love ya Jules. You know my reverse jinx. 

 

I have to go all in. When Peyton won the SB, I went all in on Broncos forums blasting Peyton and saying the Broncos will be one and done, yada, yada, yada but deep down inside, you know who I was rooting for...but the superstitious in me had to believe it, go all in   for the reverse jinx to work.

[chad72]

One more thing Jules.

 

I swear Nick Saban and Alabama trade championship years with the Patriots. Alabama won the national championship in 2009, 2011, 2012, 2015 and 2017

 

Patriots have not won the SB in any of those years. Do you think the despised ones (Saban and Belichick) alternate college and NFL championships? Hahaha, I think so, very much.

 

So, when Alabama won this year's championship, I had a gut feeling the Patriots would lose another close one. I just did not come out and say it to jinx my own jinx. 

[gspdx]

On 1/21/2018 at 8:01 PM, JimJaime said:

They let them play for the most part, they called the blatant PI and yes that includes the one at the end of the half the CB knocks cooks out of bounds with the ball in the air that's PI. Hell they didn't call the one when the CB was all ove Gronk or when they hit Hogan long before the ball got there. People make it sound like JAGS HAD A TON OF PENALTIES.. they had 6!! 3 of which were false starts or delay of game, and one an easy personal foul penalty! And then 2 OBVIOUS PI. So stop with the "refs didn't call anything on them" they basically called ones they had to on the Jags. Sigh

I saw obvious PI non-calls on both side of the ball.