Chubb or Barkley at #3?

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I'm not sold on Chubb. Even then the sold called great pass rushers from past didn't do much either. Mario Williams, Peppers come to mind right away. I would trade down and get the ND guard who is already better than most NFL guards. Protect the QB, run the ball and chew up clock makes defense better with giving them more rest

I agree we need O-lineman there are so many holes on this team. Ballard really has his work cut out for him. It'll probably take 2 to 3 years to really get this team where he wants it. 

[CHUGGER33]

At first I thought it was hard to pass up on a player like Barkley and maybe it just might be. However Ballard has said the game is won in the trenches and to me he is exactly right. Would lean a little towards taking Chubb at 3. There r 3 things u can’t get in FA and that’s a LT, QB and a pass rusher. At this point and so much will change between now and then I myself like the idea of taking a potential game changing pass rusher which I think we all can agree on is a very high need 

[Four2itus]

6 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Let's take a look at the teams remaining in this year's playoffs on the defensive side of the ball:

Minnesota: #1 ranked scoring defense

Jacksonville: #2 ranked scoring defense

Philly: #4 ranked scoring defense

New England: #5 ranked scoring defense

 

Now let's look at their top RBs:

Minnesota: Latavius Murray - acquired via free agency, originally a 6th round pick

Jacksonville: Leonard Fournette - 4th overall pick

Philly: LaGarrette Blount - acquired via free agency, originally an undrafted rookie

New England: Dion Lewis - acquired via free agency, originally a 5th round pick

 

I think that settles it as to whether a strong defense or a top RB is required to win.  All of the defenses are top 5 in scoring, but 3/4 RBs were originally late round picks or undrafted.

 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Having a good pass rush would bring more three and outs. Thus the defense is on the sidelines. The other team cant score if their QB is stopped. We wouldn't need our offense to score 25-30 points a game to win.

I don't think Chubb is that guy. I'm all for defense also. Don't get me wrong. But I don't want Mario Williams on our hands. Heck what did Julius Peppers even do? Zero rings

[superrep1967]

36 minutes ago, CHUGGER33 said:

At first I thought it was hard to pass up on a player like Barkley and maybe it just might be. However Ballard has said the game is won in the trenches and to me he is exactly right. Would lean a little towards taking Chubb at 3. There r 3 things u can’t get in FA and that’s a LT, QB and a pass rusher. At this point and so much will change between now and then I myself like the idea of taking a potential game changing pass rusher which I think we all can agree on is a very high need 

Yeah, so much will change because we don't know about Luck. If Luck isn't healthy that will change everything. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don't think Chubb is that guy. I'm all for defense also. Don't get me wrong. But I don't want Mario Williams on our hands. Heck what did Julius Peppers even do? Zero rings

If you don't think Chubb is that guy it's your opinion. There are plenty of opposing opinions of that.

With that said you cant take examples of two other players and compare him with Chubb. Every player taken in the draft is a gamble.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you don't think Chubb is that guy it's your opinion. There are plenty of opposing opinions of that.

With that said you cant take examples of two other players and compare him with Chubb. Every player taken in the draft is a gamble.

Yes I agree. Yes I know it's my opinion also. Which is zero to zilch being I don't know squat about him. If he game be a game wrecker and make a difference on our D ala Freeney/Mathis I'm all for it

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes I agree. Yes I know it's my opinion also. Which is zero to zilch being I don't know squat about him. If he game be a game wrecker and make a difference on our D ala Freeney/Mathis I'm all for it

If Ballard does draft him that's all we can hope for. Heck, we could all be wrong because none of us really knows what Ballard is going to do. We have a combine to get through and players will move up and down the boards so nothing is set in stone.

 

[mds]

IMO, the best move for the Colts is to trade back. One guy will not fix this roster. For example, if we are fortunate enough to sign Norwell, we will be better but still far from complete. If we can trade down and pickup Chubb, a linebacker, and a guard or tackle in the first two rounds, we will be much better off. Obviously, a lot will depend on FA. 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If Ballard does draft him that's all we can hope for. Heck, we could all be wrong because none of us really knows what Ballard is going to do. We have a combine to get through and players will move up and down the boards so nothing is set in stone.

 

Amen brother, going to be a lot of fun and exciting times. Would love to get the guard from ND but I'm going to be behind whoever we get. Can please some of the people some of the time. Can't please all of the people all of the time. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 1/19/2018 at 12:16 PM, Mr.Debonair said:

So why are you still here "O Wise one"

 

 

great comeback

[Smonroe]

45 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

great comeback

 

Lol!  I guess us uneducated dinosaurs have to stick together!

[BOTT]

19 hours ago, csmopar said:

Not really. I don't think there's a QB that truly excited anyone enough to trade up

Not sure there was great excitement over Goff and Wentz couple yrs ago, but they still went 1-2. If the Browns pass on a potential franchise QB yet again, cleveland fans may riot.

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I don't think Chubb is that guy. I'm all for defense also. Don't get me wrong. But I don't want Mario Williams on our hands. Heck what did Julius Peppers even do? Zero rings

Peppers was a great player.  Plenty of great players don't have rings.

[Jaredfor3]

Don’t be surprised if the Colts trade the pick and end up with DE/LB Arden Key, LB Roquan Smith, or Quenton Nelson. 

[DarkHorse]

The Browns will take a QB with the first pick.  Guarantee.  They need a franchise QB why wouldn't you take ur pick instead of settling for second choice

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, DarkHorse said:

The Browns will take a QB with the first pick.  Guarantee.  They need a franchise QB why wouldn't you take ur pick instead of settling for second choice

 

Are you now drafting for the Browns? There is nothing about a NFL draft that is guaranteed.

[DarkHorse]

They stated they need a QB.  All I'm saying is if u have first pick u use it on that.

[ColtJ82]

This is an interesting draft for us. Having a top 3 pick and not drafting a QB is a rarity for us. Can you imagine the possibilities on draft night? Chubb, Barkley......or boom, Giants take Chubb and we take Rosen. Obviously, it's extremely unlikely and a catastrophic scenario. Can you imagine the firestorm that would follow that? (LOL)

 

Picking late in the 2nd half of the first round, there are a numerous players that the pick could end up being. Picking in the 3 position this year really focuses the pick to only a handful of potential draftees. It's going to be a long 3 months of waiting and debating. 

[horseshoecrabs]

Comes down to this if we don't get a deal to trade down on our no.3 pick Barkley or Chubb is a decent pick period.

 

[horseshoecrabs]

Just becomes people who look for offense or defense value.  and I  hope  regardless  of your passion ether way, that as a Colts fan you will support  the front  office's decision  without being negative please.

[Dark Superman]

The Colts would be lucky to have either guy IMO.

Chubb is most likely their guy, but we need to surround Luck with some talent already.

I don't think you can pass up on either guy at 3.

I love both guys, but if Ballard made a move for additional picks, and selected someone like Nelson or Williams a few picks later, I wouldn't be upset. Gotta protect the franchise.

[stitches]

17 hours ago, ricker182 said:

I feel like Chubb is being overvalued.  

  

I just don't see it. He almost seems like a project because the size and speed is there, but his technique and football sense is severely lacking. I am not impressed by his tape.

IMO you pretty much described the opposite of Chubb's strengths and question marks. If there is anything that he's elite at it's his technique(especially hand technique and hand usage) and football IQ and instincts. If there is a question about him it's about how good of an athlete he is and he will have to answer that on the combine. 

[NDcolt]

BARKLEY hands down, that dominate Jags D couldn’t stop Tom Brady & neither will Chubb.  Move the chains is the SECRET ingredient, now let’s go get that missing Spice & put this debate to bed.

[ricker182]

16 hours ago, stitches said:

IMO you pretty much described the opposite of Chubb's strengths and question marks. If there is anything that he's elite at it's his technique(especially hand technique and hand usage) and football IQ and instincts. If there is a question about him it's about how good of an athlete he is and he will have to answer that on the combine. 

I'm just judging for the few full games I've watched.  

  

His technique just isn't impressive to me and he takes plays off.  

That's a big red flag for me personally.

[ricker182]

It's way more important to a defense for an offense to be able to sustain drives.  

   

Our defense isn't even bad, but when the offense is on the field for a minute every drive it wears out the defense.  

 

Saw a lot of that this season.

[CheezyColt]

27 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

BARKLEY hands down, that dominate Jags D couldn’t stop Tom Brady & neither will Chubb.  Move the chains is the SECRET ingredient, now let’s go get that missing Spice & put this debate to bed.

Fournette and the #1 rushing attack in the league couldn't stop the Pats either. 

[NDcolt]

3 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Fournette and the #1 rushing attack in the league couldn't stop the Pats either. 

Well duh, I give you one name why & that is Blake Fartles!  Andrew Luck + Barkley Mack combo + JM brilliance offense mind + 84 MILLION to buy a OL = One bad Mother to deal with.  Dominate run game w/ Luck think about that.  

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Fournette and the #1 rushing attack in the league couldn't stop the Pats either. 

nobody really does

 

their biggest loss of the years was week one, on the heels of hunts big day

[CheezyColt]

9 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Well duh, I give you one name why & that is Blake Fartles!  Andrew Luck + Barkley Mack combo + JM brilliance offense mind + 84 MILLION to buy a OL = One bad Mother to deal with.  Dominate run game w/ Luck think about that.  

Luck is undefeated when Colts hold opponents to under 20 points I believe. Think about that.

 

And Blake played well tonight. 

[NDcolt]

Minnesota with their #1 Defense Down 14-7 early.  You don’t pass up a Generational RB for a need, our best defense is a great offense.

[NDcolt]

2 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Luck is undefeated when Colts hold opponents to under 20 points I believe. Think about that.

 

And Blake played well tonight. 

Blake played well for one half, unfortunately this game has two halves & that great Jags defense folded!  Bet their fan base is screaming pass rush right?

[Stephen]

On 1/19/2018 at 1:00 PM, Buddy Lee said:

I grew up in central Pennsylvania, Penn State territory. I still follow PSU closely. I'm a big fan of Barkleys, but I still say we should draft Chubb.

 

Why?

 

Reason #1:

Even as great a skill set as Barkley clearly has he still needs a run blocking OL. In games I watched where PSU's OL wasn't getting the job done, Barkley was not a wunderkind.

 

Against           Carries         Yds         Yds/carry

Indiana             20              56              2.8

OSU                 21              44              2.1

Rutgers            14              35              2.5

 

Reason #2:

Barkley has one trait similar to what some dislike about Marlon Mack. Barkley shows a tendency to go for the home run. Rather than take the two or three yards where he is supposed to run between tackles he will fairly often retreat, sometimes reversing field, and end up losing several yards. Can this be coached out of Barkley? I don't know. I also don't know what the PSU coaches wanted him to do.

 

Reason #3:

I want the Colts to build their future OL based on pass blocking skill much more so than smash mouth road graders. Ideally you look for both but let's face it not every really good pass blocker is a clear them out type run blocker. In my world we would have a very, very good pass blocking OL that may be average in opening holes for RBs. Yeah, I know there be folks saying "I want both. We should have both. Why can't we have both? Why can't we have a Joe Thomas and a Tyron Smith and an Alex Mack and a David DeCastro and a Zack Martin as our OL?" No, there is a salary cap. You usually only have 7 draft picks each year. We have a weak roster with many other holes to fill. The other 31 teams have scouting departments too, etc. etc. 

 

This may not be ideal for Barkley. You might see games like he had against Indiana, the Buckeyes and Rutgers.

 

Reason #4:

As many have said, you can get good, but not as great as Barkley in later rounds. Kamara, Hunt, David Johnson, etc.

 

Reason #5:

I think we could do quite well offensively with a running back that has the ability to "get skinny" when the line can clear out only narrow gaps. A back that can very reliably get you four yards. Similar to Gore but with a bit more burst than Gore currently has. I saw that type attribute in Sony Michel but not Nick Chubb in the national championship game for example.

 

Reason #6:

I look at the Pats offense as an example, they have done well with LeGarrette Blount, Jonas Gray and Dion Lewis. There are no Adrian Petersons or Barry Sanders in that group. Heck, we had Lewis for six days and then we cut him.

 

Reason #7:

The Colts pass defense would greatly, greatly benefit from a dynamic edge rusher. It would really help our secondary if they didn't have to cover for 4 or 5 seconds or more.

 

Reason #8:

It is highly unlikely that you will find a Chubb type anywhere else. Teams don't let really good edge rushers go in free agency. You likely need a top 10-15 draft pick to get really good one. They are very, very hard to come by. Moreso than RBs.

 

Therefore, even though I am a PSU fan and I love Barkley, my vote was for Chubb.

 

 

 

 

 

If we got chubb and arden key

[NDcolt]

Reason # 1:  Did PS have a Generational QB to stop teams from stacking the box?  NO.

 

Reason # 2:  see Reason # 1.  Bo Jackson couldn’t run against 8 man fronts.

 

Reason 3:  Barkley & Mack would be huge in JM screen offense, imagine Luck with both Barkley & Mack in the backfield!

 

Reason 4:  Its a crap shoot on wether you hit a home run or strike out, with Barkley it’s gauranteed & no back has come out with this kind of skill set.  Did you see the one handed screen catch against the Hoosiers for 30 yds?  Athleticism

 

Reason 5:  Get skinny or Plow ahead for a first down?  Whose to say this 5th rd back works out, seems like playing Russian roulette vs a sure handed thing!

 

Reason 6:  Were not the Pats & no other team can copy what Belichek has done.  If it was that easy everyone would be trading down in the draft to take that no name scrub to turn into a star.

 

Reason 7:  Are you certain Chubb will have a JJ Watt impact?  1-2 sacks a game vs being 30-40% of the offense?  We’re talking #3 overall pick which you better hit a homerun.  Jags/Minny have the two best defenses, got them to the championship game but i thought the goal was SB?

 

Reason 8:  Risk is too high that Chubb will be that Defense MVP we’re hoping vs what Barkley can bring to this offense w/ Luck.  If It was my team the choice is clear, let’s have the top 3 offense n the league vs a top 15 defense.

[NDcolt]

The #1 Defense in the League that everyone on this board wants, is getting their arses handed to them because they can’t keep up offensively.  Just checked the Vikings board & all is screaming needing a pass rush, NOT.  Moving the chains is far more important in this league than trying to stop somebody.

[GoColts8818]

The more I think about it the Colts need to take Chubb.  The difference between the two in terms of overall talent is not that great.  You can’t win in the NFL today without a pass rush which the Colts don’t have. You can win with an okay running game if you have a franchise QB who plays like it.  I also think the Colts can still get a really good running back later in the draft.  

[Coltfreak]

30 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

The #1 Defense in the League that everyone on this board wants, is getting their arses handed to them because they can’t keep up offensively.  Just checked the Vikings board & all is screaming needing a pass rush, NOT.  Moving the chains is far more important in this league than trying to stop somebody.

You do realize that as long as Luck has been  here we have never had an issue moving the chains.  Scoring points or gaining yards.    We have however always had a problem stopping anyone.   

 

Drafting a RB with the 3rd pick would be stupid 

[CheezyColt]

There's a lot wrong with your posts but I'll keep it to two main points that I feel like answering (mainly because the baby just went to sleep so I need to try to get a couple hours in before he wakes back up)

 

In what world is any draft pick, especially a RB that struggled against top talent, a guarantee? Hint: Not this one.

 

People want a top defense because we do have that great QB. You said Jags and their #1 D couldn't keep up offensively - because they don't have that QB. Top QB+top D=success. Why do you think top qb/RB would be greater than top qb/defense? Steelers have a top 8 QB, top 3 RB, and the best WR in the game... and they fell apart when the leader of their defense went out. Why do you suppose that is?

 

We are going to disagree and that's fine... but some of your points make zero sense. Barkley is not a guarantee, despite what you're claiming. I'll take a top 10 offense and top 10 defense over a top 3 offense and bottom 5 defense every day of the week and twice on Sundays. You said yourself that the goal is SB... did you miss the Peyton years when we had a super offense and mediocre defense? We were continuously bounced from the playoffs until the D stepped up. Even if we got Barkley we wouldn't be on the same level as those Peyton offenses AND our D has no Freeny/Mathis/Booger/Sanders/etc. There's a reason they say defense wins championships and the professionals preach balanced team building.

[NDcolt]

Tell me one thing that Andrew Luck has yet to have in his Professional career?  A ligit RB to take the pressure off from being Superman.  Again, tell me why Chubb is worth the #3 overall pick?  Did NC State make an impact this season or was Chubb even in the Heisman voting?  How can you justify Chubb with the 3rd pick when the answer to both questions is NO?  Barkley did what he did in a tough conference with NO qb threat.  Do you follow the Big ten & seen Barkley play or just going off a need?  Watch NC State games & tell me again you want Chubb at 3 vs a dynamic game changer in a tough conference.  

[NDcolt]

I didn’t even know who Chubb was at the end of the CFB season but I guarantee you Everyone knew who Saquon Barkley was. Barkley instantly makes us a top 5 offense (with Luck obviously) while Chubb can’t gaurantee to be a top 20 Defense.  

 

No matter what our Colts decide with that 3rd pick, there will always be a debate on what was the correct decision so we shall see.  Go Colts