Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Getting Barkley and Nelson possible


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

I have been thinking a lot about these two, both great players and both would fill huge gaping holes on our team (assuming Gore is gone). I dont believe drafting a Guard in the top 10 is realistic, which got me thinking what if we were to use our #3 pick on Barkley and somehow trade back up in to the first round to aquire Nelson, do you think if he is still available at say..20-25, we try to make a move, that would be a huge boost for the team if we could get both of these guys. What would it take?

 

There are two problems with this....    

 

First,  unless the medicals shows something seriously wrong,  or unless he hurts himself between now and draft day,  Nelson is not falling that far.      It's inconceivable.    Odds are he'd go between 6-10 and if he falls beyond that,  then it's between 10-16.    But impossible to believe he'd fall past the halfway point of the first round.     Only bad health would make that happen.

 

Second,  it's hugely expensive to trade back up into the first round.    And if we're talking pick 20,  then we're moving up a half a round.   About 16 picks.     That's costly.     And we are so early in the rebuild process we are NOT one key player away.      We need all the draft assets that Chris Ballard can use.     We want to collect more draft picks,  not trade the few we have away.

 

Sorry....    I never like being the guy that says there is no Santa Claus....     but in this case,   there is no Santa Claus.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 96
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

The Patriots have picked one offensive player (Solder) in the 1st round since they picked Maroney in 2006. That was also the only time that an offensive player was their 1st pick as well.

 

I think offense will be the focus in rounds 2-4, but Ballard is going to have his eye on a top defensive prospect in the 1st round

I guess we will see.  Belichick was making all those picks for the Pats and it really has no bearing on what Ballard does.  Right now I still feel the Colts are shifting into a more offensive mindset and they will set that tone with their first pick.   It will be interesting to see how it actually plays out. Either way this team needs alot of help on both sides of the ball so as long as we get a very good player it's hard to be too upset one way or the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

the game is changing , look around , Gurley look at jags , premier running backs come along one in a blue moon and Bark is one , draft the man and fix the o line in free agency not the draft , takes guys too long to be good , draft one on the next round or so   dnt forget Bell for the steelers 

Just in recent years there's been Gurley, Gordon, Zeke, and Fournette that have been "generational" RB talents. How often is does a blue moon come around anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CheezyColt said:

Just in recent years there's been Gurley, Gordon, Zeke, and Fournette that have been "generational" RB talents. How often is does a blue moon come around anyway?

you said it just in recent years , the man can run , catch the ball out of the backfield also, with he and Mack we should be set for a while 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

Actually, that would be awesome.  The #3 pick would become more valuable to another team that wants to jump ahead of the Browns before they take a QB.

.....and people believe John Dorsey will fail to recognize this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been trying to figure out a way to get Fitzpatrick and Smith.  I think our defense would truly be elite with the addition of just these 2 players. Our pass rush would be developed by our ability to cover and we theoretically wouldn't have a coverage weakness.  Add Johnson and Hitchens in free agency and whoa is that a scary defense. 

 

I can dream but I'm thinking something like moving back to pick 6 for Fitz and using seconds and future seconds to move to top 20 for Smith...  it'll never happen and we probably wouldn't have enough ammo but man the dream lol...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t understand why everyone thinks the Browns will take Barkley at 1.

They can get first choice at QB and swap picks with us to get Barkley if they really want him that badly. Or they can take Barkley at 1 and swap picks with us to get 2nd choice at QB while also risking us trading with someone else leaving them with 3rd choice at QB. Also, trading up when the obvious pick is a QB is going to be a lot more expensive. 

QB1 and RB1 or

RB1 and QB(2 or 3). The choice seems obvious to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, csmopar said:

I'm gonna laugh extremely hard on draft night when the Browns take Barkley at number 1 and their QB at number 4.

They would be dumb to even attempt this. They are in no position to play around and pass on yet another player that turns out to be a franchise quarterback after Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. 

 

They need to pick who they want at number one after the months of scouting and not just settle for whoever may fall in their laps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

They would be dumb to even attempt this. They are in no position to play around and pass on yet another player that turns out to be a franchise quarterback after Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. 

 

They need to pick who they want at number one after the months of scouting and not just settle for whoever may fall in their laps.

The question is do we know who they value as their franchise QB?  The combine may show something not known now.

Do they value Allen as much as Darnold and Rosen?  Or will another QB step up at the combine? 

Dumb is a little pre mature to say this early. Who knows, they may make a trade for a QB with the 4th pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The question is do we know who they value as their franchise QB?  The combine may show something not known now.

Do they value Allen as much as Darnold and Rosen?  Or will another QB step up at the combine? 

Dumb is a little pre mature to say this early. Who knows, they may make a trade for a QB with the 4th pick.

If I'm the Browns I'm not risking anything when I have the number one overall pick. All bets are off if they get someone like Cousins or Mccarron, but if they make it to the draft without acquiring a starting quarterback they better take their favorite at pick one because there will be no one left at 4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

If I'm the Browns I'm not risking anything when I have the number one overall pick. All bets are off if they get someone like Cousins or Mccarron, but if they make it to the draft without acquiring a starting quarterback they better take their favorite at pick one because there will be no one left at 4

You seem to forget something. We are talking about the Browns. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barkley is the highest rated player in the draft per Kipper , I think with the cap money we have in place we can address some of what we need in free agency , Lets see what happens there first and then we can see where we stand . Ballard will be after o lineman I am sure and maybe a linebacker before the draft gets here , I just think Barlley gives us a threat we don't have now and desperately need , In my opinion TY is not a number one , more of a slot man . We need another playmaker 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the Browns decide to sign a FA quarterback who is established and doesn't require a lot of time to develop, then use #1 for Barkley and #4 for BPA.  Seems that would improve that team much faster than taking another QB in the draft and rely on them to start from day one.  If you sign a QB via free agency for 2 or 3 year deal, then you draft a QB next year and let them develop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Coltivated said:

When Payton won it all wasn't  it brown,  or addai?

 

It was Addai, Edgerrin James left in 2005 and Addai was drafted in the late 20s in round 1. He was eased into the line up behind Rhodes first before becoming the starter and excelled in pass protection on top of his running skills. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nope.

OK, here's a more interesting one... would you draft Nelson at 3 if you are guaranteed he will have Zack Martin-like career with the Colts? And if not, how far down would you have to go for it to be worth it in your opinion? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, stitches said:

OK, here's a more interesting one... would you draft Nelson at 3 if you are guaranteed he will have Zack Martin-like career with the Colts? And if not, how far down would you have to go for it to be worth it in your opinion? 

 

I don't like this scenario because there are no guarantees in the draft.

 

But even with a guarantee that Nelson would be Martin, I still need to know my grades on the rest of the prospects. Who's still on the board, and how do I view them? If I have a similar grade on Chubb, for instance, I'm going with Chubb. If my phone is ringing off the hook and I can add nice picks and stay in the top 6-8, I'm probably going to trade down, especially if I think whoever is calling me wants one of the QBs. There's recent chatter -- and it's lying season, so it might not matter -- that Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield might go top 5-ish. The third pick might be super hot.

 

My first step is to evaluate everyone honestly. My last step, before I do anything with the pick, is to feel confident that I'm getting the most value out of the pick as I can. I don't think taking a guard is going to represent the best value, when all is said and done.

 

So, short answer probably not.

 

By the way, the last two guards to go top ten were Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack, two guys who were presumed to be 'can't miss' interior OL prospects, the next whoever. Cooper certainly hasn't performed to that level, and Warmack has been decent, but not worthy of the #10 pick that was used on him (Kyle Long went at #20, and he's been better). Lots of these 'can't miss' guys wind up missing. Scout honestly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't like this scenario because there are no guarantees in the draft.

 

But even with a guarantee that Nelson would be Martin, I still need to know my grades on the rest of the prospects. Who's still on the board, and how do I view them? If I have a similar grade on Chubb, for instance, I'm going with Chubb. If my phone is ringing off the hook and I can add nice picks and stay in the top 6-8, I'm probably going to trade down, especially if I think whoever is calling me wants one of the QBs. There's recent chatter -- and it's lying season, so it might not matter -- that Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield might go top 5-ish. The third pick might be super hot.

 

My first step is to evaluate everyone honestly. My last step, before I do anything with the pick, is to feel confident that I'm getting the most value out of the pick as I can. I don't think taking a guard is going to represent the best value, when all is said and done.

 

So, short answer probably not.

 

By the way, the last two guards to go top ten were Jonathan Cooper and Chance Warmack, two guys who were presumed to be 'can't miss' interior OL prospects, the next whoever. Cooper certainly hasn't performed to that level, and Warmack has been decent, but not worthy of the #10 pick that was used on him (Kyle Long went at #20, and he's been better). Lots of these 'can't miss' guys wind up missing. Scout honestly.

Wasn't Brandon Scherff drafted pretty high? But I get what you mean. I meant this more as a hypothetical scenario to think through, rather than me really thinking that he can't fail. Every prospect can fail for variety of reasons really and that's part of their evaluations - assessing the various risk factors. 

 

More on the topic - from your scouting - do you have higher grade on Nelson as a guard or on Chubb as a DE? (that is disregarding the positional value, just evaluating how good the player is at what he does) 

 

edit: BTW do you plan on releasing some scouting reports for potential Colts targets? I enjoyed your scouting posts in previous years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

Every Colt team that I have followed and done well had a premier running back  Unitas had Lennty Moore , Bert had Lydell Mitchell and Peyton had James , I rest my case 

 

And yet Manning won a Superbowl with Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes.  How many did he win with James again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

Nobody said defense wasn't important . But drafting by need will ensure you will be drafting top 5 every year . Ballards already said as much . 

 

Teams draft BPA based on the draft board they setup.  When setting up the draft board, they will take need and positional value into consideration.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

If Josh McDaniels is the new coach it's almost guaranteed that the Colts will go offense in the first round. They have sent a message that it's about offense again. 

 

The message they've sent is simply that they want Luck in a different style of offense.  He's been in some version of the Air-Coryell offense since he was drafted.  Josh McDaniels runs a much different scheme that is much closer to a WC style offense.   That is the only thing that hiring McD means.  It does not come anywhere near the zip code of "it's almost guaranteed that the Colts will go offense in the first round."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Wasn't Brandon Scherff drafted pretty high? But I get what you mean. I meant this more as a hypothetical scenario to think through, rather than me really thinking that he can't fail. Every prospect can fail for variety of reasons really and that's part of their evaluations - assessing the various risk factors. 

 

More on the topic - from your scouting - do you have higher grade on Nelson as a guard or on Chubb as a DE? (that is disregarding the positional value, just evaluating how good the player is at what he does) 

 

edit: BTW do you plan on releasing some scouting reports for potential Colts targets? I enjoyed your scouting posts in previous years. 

 

Forgot about Scherff, he's playing well.

 

I haven't done any actual grading on either player. I've watched them both, and I want to rewatch both before the Combine. If I had to say right now, I think Nelson would have the higher grade. That's partly because I weight athleticism so heavily for pass rushers, and I don't know that Chubb is an elite athlete. 

 

I'll try to post some breakdowns. They wind up being pretty time consuming. The hardest part for me is writing a brief analysis and coming up with a good comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Forgot about Scherff, he's playing well.

 

I haven't done any actual grading on either player. I've watched them both, and I want to rewatch both before the Combine. If I had to say right now, I think Nelson would have the higher grade. That's partly because I weight athleticism so heavily for pass rushers, and I don't know that Chubb is an elite athlete. 

 

I'll try to post some breakdowns. They wind up being pretty time consuming. The hardest part for me is writing a brief analysis and coming up with a good comparison.

Well, not to force you do it, but I always love hearing your input on prospects. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Would you acquire RB i.e. Todd Gurley, Zeke, or Fournette for a #3.? 

 

I don't believe any of those teams would trade those players for a #3 right now.  The answer is certainly not as clearcut as some would like the rest to believe.  I would do it, but not if Barkley is there because I think he will be better than all of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

I have been thinking a lot about these two, both great players and both would fill huge gaping holes on our team (assuming Gore is gone). I dont believe drafting a Guard in the top 10 is realistic, which got me thinking what if we were to use our #3 pick on Barkley and somehow trade back up in to the first round to aquire Nelson, do you think if he is still available at say..20-25, we try to make a move, that would be a huge boost for the team if we could get both of these guys. What would it take?

No way he lasts 20-25. He's the best guard available by far and the Colts would have to give up a king's ransom to move back into the top 10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Why would we use the 3rd overall pick on a RB? Did we learn nothing from the Manning days? Last two years Luck has played we’ve been top 10 in points scored. Has our defense been top 10? No, or else we would have made the playoffs in 2016.  I can’t believe I even need to elaborate. Not trying to be a * but come on. 

 

Defense wins rings. Rings > Star Wars numbers 

 

I remember when the Cardinals said that about Adrian Peterson.  They ended up drafting Levi Brown at tackle.  He was projected to be a top-10 pick and was traded a few years. It took them 10 years to find Johnson.  Ten years of first round picks.  You pick BPA and this kid is legit.  If he is there we should take him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Bleedin Blue said:

 

I remember when the Cardinals said that about Adrian Peterson.  It took them 10 years to find Johnson.  Ten years of first round picks.  You pick BPA and this kid is legit.  If he is there we should take him.

How many rings did Adrian and the Vikings get? How many playoff wins did they get? David Johnson was picked in the 3rd round?  Terrible example. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...