Steelers Minority Owners Pushing For Firing Mike Tomlin

[tikyle]

1 minute ago, mikey287 said:

I think we're discounting organizational leadership and its importance. Though, as consolation, I'm glad that most of the dissenters in this have never worked for a company with poor organizational leadership and/or a toxic work environment...as such, can't really get a handle on the effects of that. Plus, they were profitable, so everything was fine regardless. Excellent.

 

That is very important.  I've worked in those situations but usually poor management leads to a breakdown in production either from a technical or morale standpoint.  And usually great organizations don't keep poor management.  They identify it and make the necessary change, even if they are profitable.

 

 

Just now, GoPats said:

 

I don't see Pittsburgh getting rid of him so it's a moot question anyway, but I would bet you that most of the NFL's run-of-the-mill head coaches would win a minimum of 10 games with that team.

 

 

Tom Coughlin had a "HOF QB" and HOF defensive lines in their primes and didn't win 10 games per year.  This Steelers team isn't that much better than that Giants roster.  Plus we can't assume every coach will develop talent the same, I mean we're on a Colts forum and to me that is/was the biggest shortcoming of Pagano...........talent development!

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, mikey287 said:

Nah...they're 13-3, so there can't be any problems...don't look into it any further, take the nuances of the locker rooms in organized professional sports and shove them...13-3!

But 13-3 does make it difficult to fire anybody.  Maybe when the first 8-8 season comes we'll see your justice.

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah......

 

That 13-3 record Steelers fans had to put up with?!?       Wow,  I can't believe they'd tolerate such poor performance.

 

116 wins in 11 years.     It's been terrible to watch that type of bad football.      Can't believe Tomlin has been able to fool so many people for so long.

 

Hey,  here's a question?     Do you follow football much?

 

Can't tell by your posts.......      goodness gracious......          

Not to mention that the Steelers stand behind their head coaches. They stood behind Cowher for 14 years before winning a super bowl and Tomlin got one in his second year. The Steelers under Tomlin have made the playoffs 8 out of 11 years.

IMO he ain't going anywhere.

[Surge89]

19 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Well, I mean, I touched on it in the post you quoted. Look at how the Steelers have under-performed against far inferior teams...they play down to their opponents regularly...this has been the case for a while now...and it's this cocky, toxic environment that he has created. Not the first time the Jaguars have beaten them at home in a playoff game under Tomlin with the guise of a big opponent to follow...Bort beat them, David Garrard beat them...Tim Tebow, one of the worst QBs in NFL history, beat them...that wild card loss to Baltimore a few years ago was a joke too...but ignoring the big stuff, even during the regular season, they cut it way too fine against teams they should be trouncing with their talent. 

 

This might be the most talented offense in the league. And they might know that, but they don't utilize it. They always try to get too tricky for their own good, they want to be geniuses...4th & 1...power forward QB Ben Roethlisberger...a sneak is too easy, even un-athletic 40-year-old Tom Brady still runs sneaks, Ben is like 15 for 15 on getting first downs on sneaks or some ridiculous stat...in a big spot, they go back to back toss sweep right against a diesel front 7. They need to go 1 yard, their QB is 2 yards tall, they go 5 yards behind the LOS and stretch it out into WRs and TEs who can't block LBs. This was the same thing with their overuse of the TE screen in years passed that cost them dearly in big spots.

 

Even the guys in the locker room, Mike Mitchell, a horrendous player in his own right...talking about how they were prepared for New England...as a result, they didn't get to play them.

 

You can go on and on, and it's tough to judge coaches from the outside...but if you can sense danger, so to speak, you can sense this thing stinks...it's buoyed by talent, that's fine, but it's not clear that the environment is really healthy there, it's not clear that this thing is really organized. It seems like a country club atmosphere (coincidentally, the Pittsburgh Penguins went through this for a time as well...which I can speak much more about it if only it were the appropriate board) and that falls on the organizational leadership that promotes that.

 

Ok so let's start with the point I think you are completely right with. Tomlin has a nack for completely overlooking opponents. It bleeds into his team. 

 

I also believe that Tomlin has a similar issue to Pagano in that he went and picked up coordinators that don't mask his weaknesses. They have developed great schemes and develop talent very well but they get way to "cute" in everything they do. For example: 

 

1. 2 of the very best up and coming pass rushers in Watt and Dupree yet both are in coverage 70% of the time. 

 

2.  Best running back in the league against best secondary? Let's throw it 8 times before we try and run. 

 

3. 4th and inches?  Let's dio a gadget play...

 

4. Heavy run opponent? Better play nickel and dime out the gate...etc.

 

This is my biggest problem in Pitt. When they don't do this foolish stuff they are without a doubt the best team in football but usually they don't get serious until the last 2 minutes. 

 

As far as "letting the locker room go" I think that's hog wash. He's not their dad and most of the responsibility for that should be the leaders on the team. 

 

He's a good coach.  And a great developer of talent but he's going to need to replace coordinators for people who compliment him. 

 

I don't think he's sneaky bad as you say just not elite.  I do think he needs an upgrade at QB though which will probably end up being his reason to be let go. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

I think everyone thinks if their coach isn't BB then they are inadequate.  BB is a genius.  We can all admit that.  But guys like Tomlin, Reid and Carroll are great coaches, they just don't stack up to BB.

 

I would ask this, would you rather have a Tomlin/Reid/Carroll type where you're in the playoffs every year but you only win a SB or two at most or would you rather have a Coughlin type where you "disciplined, on time, militant" and you make the playoffs maybe half of the time but you win two SB's out of nowhere?

 

I'll take the Carroll type.  To be competitive every year, to me, that's all you can ask as a fan.   Stuff happens in the playoffs.   The Jags are a very good team.   Losing to them is no crime.   Not a fireable offense, IMO.

 

 

[mikey287]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

But 13-3 does make it difficult to fire anybody.  Maybe when the first 8-8 season comes we'll see your justice.

That is very true.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, mikey287 said:

 

What a weird way to attack...especially considering I already said that people are gonna look at this without nuance and just cite the record and think everything is fine. 

 

You backed it up with absolutely nothing except for a misplaced question mark. Why go this route? This isn't the first time Tomlin has been on the hot seat internally despite the record you cite, that gives a decent amount of credence to what I said...which, again, requires some nuance and the ability to sense danger...as opposed to the binary "green mean good, red mean bad" take that you decided to limp all-in on...

 

I provided some degree of backdrop, from an outsider's perspective...you read a table out of the newspaper...and then asked if I follow football...? It's just a weird way to go about it...and I'm not even saying that in an "I'm right and you're wrong" sort of way, I'm very much open to the idea of my take on things (which is pretty clearly shared within the organization as well by some) is up for debate...but that's only if you come to the table with something of substance. 

 

The whole "look at his record" and "only one team can win the Super Bowl" stuff can be checked at the door...I feel like we can do better than that...well, I pray that we can do better than that...

 

Sorry, Mikey...   I was hard on you.   I also didn't realize you're a Steelers fan.   I thought you were a Colts fan.   My bad.

 

But I did see your comments about Tomlin's record etc.   But at some point ignoring the record makes me say... ..

 

Come on!

 

Not the first time he's been on the hot seat?    

 

When was the first time?   I'm not talking about fan anger over losing a post season game.   I'm talking about genuine front office consideration given to firing Tomlin?   Seriously?    I'm not saying you're wrong.   You know your team better than I do.   But I'm not talking about fan frustration.   I'm talking about genuine front office consideration to firing Tomlin?

 

Winning is INCREDIBLY hard in the NFL.   If Pittsburgh fired Tomlin today, he'd be hired likely within a week. 

 

Noll...  Cowher...  Tomlin...   that's your head coaches for the last 50 years.   That's incredible.   And it's admired and respected through the NFL.  Fans in about 30 other cities would love that kind of stability.

 

Just a different perspective to consider...

 

Again, my apologies for being hard on you...   good luck next season...

 

[mikey287]

I am a Colts fan. And I'm a Penguins fan. As a result, I'm pretty familiar with the Steelers and the goings-on. 

 

Nothing you said was really wrong. But here we are...a 13-3 season, yet another loss to a team they were favored against...and talk about him being canned. There's a lot of examples - of which the onus is on me to provide, and frankly, I probably won't, as it's not worth the effort - of players speaking towards this culture that he has allowed to fester...it's not healthy, it's not conducive towards winning...

 

Super Bowl is great, no question. Since then, missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 9. 5-6 in the playoffs - mostly as a high seed. With a wagon offense, if not defense too. The Steelers also get the benefit (like the Colts for years) of playing just a ton of slobs all year long...Cleveland, Cincinnati and now even Baltimore blows now...

 

Jim Caldwell was like 24-7 with a Super Bowl appearance with Peyton Manning. Didn't have Manning and got canned. The record isn't everything...

 

Again, your last post is reasonble...I'm just addressing the OP and its premise...

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

He's a good coach.  And a great developer of talent but he's going to need to replace coordinators for people who compliment him. 

 

 

 

Todd Haley out as OC. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22133581/pittsburgh-steelers-part-ways-offensive-coordinator-todd-haley

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, mikey287 said:

 

Jim Caldwell was like 24-7 with a Super Bowl appearance with Peyton Manning. Didn't have Manning and got canned. The record isn't everything...

 

Again, your last post is reasonble...I'm just addressing the OP and its premise...

 

Caldwell has proved he's an above average coach.  And in all honesty the Colts would have done much better in keeping him than going the Pagano route.  Detroit has not had this much continuous success in their history if I'm not mistaken.

 

The Steelers are in a transition period in the locker room.  It's something the coach cannot control.  The verbal leaders of the team and the best players on the team have totally different ways about doing stuff.  And I think the biggest problem there is (and most never touch on this) the biggest personality in that locker room goes about his business the same way the guys people poo poo on that same locker room but he doesn't get the same public backlash because he's the two time Superbowl winning QB.  But if we are all honest the biggest diva on Pittsburgh has been Big Ben and it's been like that WAY WAY WAY before they had any of these new guys that people heart ache about.  This is the same Big Ben that complained about not having big WRs while alienating Hines Ward and Randle El and Mike Wallace.  The same Big Ben that kept getting into trouble in Milledgeville, GA.  The same Big Ben that keeps doing a Favre impression with retirement.  The same Big Ben that has been publicly second guessing his (now former) OC for years now.  But nobody has the guts to point the finger at the guy who's behavior Brown and Bell follow.  Remember it's the Killer B's and the first B is actually BB (Big Ben).

[Surge89]

12 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

 

Todd Haley out as OC. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22133581/pittsburgh-steelers-part-ways-offensive-coordinator-todd-haley

 

It seems like Fitchner will be the replacement. 

[Reality Check]

I know that he had a 13-3 regular season record & that is enough for some to justify keeping Tomlin... but I thought this tidbit might be relevant to the conversation....

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/19/report-leveon-bell-skipped-nearly-all-of-final-walkthrough-of-season/

 

IMO, this just highlights the fact that Tomlin does not require much (if any) accountability from his players. With the talent they have (esp on offense), imagine how good PITT would be if they had a coach like Coughlin, Parcells, or BB?

[krunk]

On 1/16/2018 at 12:36 PM, mikey287 said:

Tomlin is one of those sneakily bad coaches that fans just look at their record and think he's good, but actually he allows a toxic environment to fester and has no control over anything under the guise of being a "players' coach"...he seems like a buffoon...his Steelers were woefully unprepared for Jacksonville. On the plus side, they were probably prepared for New England and could share their notes with Blake Bottles (sic) so that he has a chance to beat those goons...

horrible post

[krunk]

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

I know that he had a 13-3 regular season record & that is enough for some to justify keeping Tomlin... but I thought this tidbit might be relevant to the conversation....

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/19/report-leveon-bell-skipped-nearly-all-of-final-walkthrough-of-season/

 

IMO, this just highlights the fact that Tomlin does not require much (if any) accountability from his players. With the talent they have (esp on offense), imagine how good PITT would be if they had a coach like Coughlin, Parcells, or BB?

Oh please

[mikey287]

Ya know, you made some really good points these last couple posts. I now think the Steelers would be wrong to fire Tomlin as well, I have also lost my ability to find new nuance in any situation. Thank you for your service.

[rock8591]

On 1/16/2018 at 2:47 PM, Reality Check said:

This gets quite confusing...I am not sure I understand all of this correctly?...

 

Seems that the Steelers hired a minority coach & also drove the implementation of "The Rooney Rule".  Not sure how much the 2 actions are/were related?  Now, the (minority) coach is under fire from other minority personnel within the organization..is this correct?

 

 

I laughed harder than Ha Ha Clinton-Dix.