Steelers Minority Owners Pushing For Firing Mike Tomlin

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

I seriously doubt this will happen, but it sounds like some of the minority partners of the Steelers are trying to oust Mike Tomlin after Pittsburgh's playoff loss to the Jags.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-owners-reportedly-lobbying-art-rooney-to-fire-mike-tomlin-after-playoff-debacle/ 

[mikey287]

Tomlin is one of those sneakily bad coaches that fans just look at their record and think he's good, but actually he allows a toxic environment to fester and has no control over anything under the guise of being a "players' coach"...he seems like a buffoon...his Steelers were woefully unprepared for Jacksonville. On the plus side, they were probably prepared for New England and could share their notes with Blake Bottles (sic) so that he has a chance to beat those goons...

[chad72]

I still did not understand the onside kick with 2 timeouts and the 2 minute warning to help you. Jags went 3 and out and still had good field position for a FG. Choosing to defer against a team that loves playing ahead with their run game and pass D was a bit questionable too. Zone coverage more often against wide outs that do not fight jams well, IMO???

 

Lots more head scratchers over the years too. However, they have to evaluate the good with the bad. There are few HCs that are better, around for hire at this point, IMO.

 

The 2008 team was loaded on D more with Polamalu, Ike Taylor etc. in the secondary plus Harrison and Woodley for the nasty OLB tandem plus Larry Foote and Lawrence Timmons in their prime inside. They had play makers on that D at all levels when Tomlin got in. The same play makers were a factor in their 2010 run too but both cases, they never had to go through Brady and the Patriots, their Kryptonite since 2001. 2005, 2008 and 2010 SB runs - Patriots were not a factor past the divisional round for the Steelers.

 

Peyton was the only one who went through Brady 3 times in the AFCCG to 3 SBs, winning 2 of them. 

[Reality Check]

This gets quite confusing...I am not sure I understand all of this correctly?...

 

Seems that the Steelers hired a minority coach & also drove the implementation of "The Rooney Rule".  Not sure how much the 2 actions are/were related?  Now, the (minority) coach is under fire from other minority personnel within the organization..is this correct?

 

I guess I am wondering why is only the minority personnel in the Steelers organization who want him fired?  Are the white people in the organization against firing him ... or are they afraid of the perceived hypocrisy (vs. Rooney Rule) that will come their way if they fire him?

 

[Valpo2004]

7 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

This gets quite confusing...I am not sure I understand all of this correctly?...

 

Seems that the Steelers hired a minority coach & also drove the implementation of "The Rooney Rule".  Not sure how much the 2 actions are/were related?  Now, the (minority) coach is under fire from other minority personnel within the organization..is this correct?

 

I guess I am wondering why is only the minority personnel in the Steelers organization who want him fired?  Are the white people in the organization against firing him ... or are they afraid of the perceived hypocrisy (vs. Rooney Rule) that will come their way if they fire him?

 

 

Umm

 

Minority owner in this sense refers to a person who owns a stake in the team but not a controlling stake.

 

So if you own 10% of the Steelers, you would qualify as a "minority owner".  Has nothing to do with race.  

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

4 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

This gets quite confusing...I am not sure I understand all of this correctly?...

 

Seems that the Steelers hired a minority coach & also drove the implementation of "The Rooney Rule".  Not sure how much the 2 actions are/were related?  Now, the (minority) coach is under fire from other minority personnel within the organization..is this correct?

 

I guess I am wondering why is only the minority personnel in the Steelers organization who want him fired?  Are the white people in the organization against firing him ... or are they afraid of the perceived hypocrisy (vs. Rooney Rule) that will come their way if they fire him?

 

 

 

No. Minority owners are owners who own less than 50% of the franchise. The Rooney family are the majority owners of the Steelers but there are other investors who own a portion of the team and they are considered to be minority owners. It has nothing to do with race it is only about the percentage of the team theat they own.

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Umm

 

Minority owner in this sense refers to a person who owns a stake in the team but not a controlling stake.

 

So if you own 10% of the Steelers, you would qualify as a "minority owner".  Has nothing to do with race.  

Oh...now I get it.  Thanks for clarifying!

 

So, this is just an internal rift.  I wonder if Seth Wickersham is gonna write a big expose on the turmoil inside Heinz Field?  LOL

[Valpo2004]

7 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

Oh...now I get it.  Thanks for clarifying!

 

So, this is just an internal rift.  I wonder if Seth Wickersham is gonna write a big expose on the turmoil inside Heinz Field?  LOL

 

Well this internal rift doesn't really matter that much.  Minority owners have very little to no power.  They don't make decisions for the organization they just get to collect checks on the profits.  

 

 

[Reality Check]

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Well this internal rift doesn't really matter that much.  Minority owners have very little to no power.  They don't make decisions for the organization they just get to collect checks on the profits.  

 

 

I hear ya'

 

When I first jumped into this thread, the word "minority" scared me ... ya' know?  Nowadays, you need to be really careful how these words get thrown around.  If something is taken outta context, you could get banned... Tru dat!

[mikey287]

^ That was one of my favorite exchanges that I've witnessed on the internet.

 

"minority owners" ...haha that's gold, Jerry. Gold!

[tikyle]

2 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Tomlin is one of those sneakily bad coaches that fans just look at their record and think he's good, but actually he allows a toxic environment to fester and has no control over anything under the guise of being a "players' coach"...he seems like a buffoon...his Steelers were woefully unprepared for Jacksonville. On the plus side, they were probably prepared for New England and could share their notes with Blake Bottles (sic) so that he has a chance to beat those goons...

 

Please explain to me how he is "sneakily bad'?

[mikey287]

Well, I mean, I touched on it in the post you quoted. Look at how the Steelers have under-performed against far inferior teams...they play down to their opponents regularly...this has been the case for a while now...and it's this cocky, toxic environment that he has created. Not the first time the Jaguars have beaten them at home in a playoff game under Tomlin with the guise of a big opponent to follow...Bort beat them, David Garrard beat them...Tim Tebow, one of the worst QBs in NFL history, beat them...that wild card loss to Baltimore a few years ago was a joke too...but ignoring the big stuff, even during the regular season, they cut it way too fine against teams they should be trouncing with their talent. 

 

This might be the most talented offense in the league. And they might know that, but they don't utilize it. They always try to get too tricky for their own good, they want to be geniuses...4th & 1...power forward QB Ben Roethlisberger...a sneak is too easy, even un-athletic 40-year-old Tom Brady still runs sneaks, Ben is like 15 for 15 on getting first downs on sneaks or some ridiculous stat...in a big spot, they go back to back toss sweep right against a diesel front 7. They need to go 1 yard, their QB is 2 yards tall, they go 5 yards behind the LOS and stretch it out into WRs and TEs who can't block LBs. This was the same thing with their overuse of the TE screen in years passed that cost them dearly in big spots.

 

Even the guys in the locker room, Mike Mitchell, a horrendous player in his own right...talking about how they were prepared for New England...as a result, they didn't get to play them.

 

You can go on and on, and it's tough to judge coaches from the outside...but if you can sense danger, so to speak, you can sense this thing stinks...it's buoyed by talent, that's fine, but it's not clear that the environment is really healthy there, it's not clear that this thing is really organized. It seems like a country club atmosphere (coincidentally, the Pittsburgh Penguins went through this for a time as well...which I can speak much more about it if only it were the appropriate board) and that falls on the organizational leadership that promotes that.

[tikyle]

First, we should acknowledge that the Jaguars might actually be good this year.  Not to say that they don't have flaws, but there team matches up well with Pittsburgh.  As far as the Steelers losing to inferior teams that me be the case but I don't think a team that averages 11-12 wins a year in the last 5 that is really a problem.  I can say the same thing for the Patriots.  They obviously lose to lesser teams because they've only had one undefeated season and are almost always the favorite.  They seem to lose to the Dolphins and Chiefs every year or so but it's no big deal.

 

Now the perception of the team being out of control because of outspoken players and guys making Facebook videos is way overblown.  Those same guys put in MVP performances week in and week out.  Tomlin has also went through an entire team, staff and scheme overhaul and has NO LOSING SEASONS in 11 years as coach.  They lost Dick LeBeau, Troy Polamalu, Jerome Bettis, Bruce Arians, Hines Ward, Joey Porter, and the list goes on and on.  They went from 3-4 "Blitzburgh" to a 4-3 "Dungyburgh" zone.  They went from bombs away Arians to dink and dunk Haley.  They move on from WR after WR from Superbowl MVP WRs to MVP candidate WRs.  And through all of that the team wins and is in contention.  He also develops talent quite well.  The Steelers don't have many "wasted" high picks and they've developed low picks like Antonio Brown or Villenueva.

 

I think his in game decision making is questionable at times but I'm not blaming the HC for the calls that the OC and DC make on 4th down or on critical 3rd downs.  I blame the HC for going for it on 4th or calling onside kicks or the big decisions.  Once they make the call the coordinators pick the play.  This perception of control or ruling with an iron fist is totally overrated and archaic.  These guys (especially the millennials) are going to more and more push back against that.  You don't always get the most out of people by keeping your thumb on them.  Sometimes working with them and letting them be themselves yields the best results.  Everyone is different.

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, mikey287 said:

Well, I mean, I touched on it in the post you quoted. Look at how the Steelers have under-performed against far inferior teams...they play down to their opponents regularly...this has been the case for a while now...and it's this cocky, toxic environment that he has created. Not the first time the Jaguars have beaten them at home in a playoff game under Tomlin with the guise of a big opponent to follow...Bort beat them, David Garrard beat them...Tim Tebow, one of the worst QBs in NFL history, beat them...that wild card loss to Baltimore a few years ago was a joke too...but ignoring the big stuff, even during the regular season, they cut it way too fine against teams they should be trouncing with their talent. 

 

This might be the most talented offense in the league. And they might know that, but they don't utilize it. They always try to get too tricky for their own good, they want to be geniuses...4th & 1...power forward QB Ben Roethlisberger...a sneak is too easy, even un-athletic 40-year-old Tom Brady still runs sneaks, Ben is like 15 for 15 on getting first downs on sneaks or some ridiculous stat...in a big spot, they go back to back toss sweep right against a diesel front 7. They need to go 1 yard, their QB is 2 yards tall, they go 5 yards behind the LOS and stretch it out into WRs and TEs who can't block LBs. This was the same thing with their overuse of the TE screen in years passed that cost them dearly in big spots.

 

Even the guys in the locker room, Mike Mitchell, a horrendous player in his own right...talking about how they were prepared for New England...as a result, they didn't get to play them.

 

You can go on and on, and it's tough to judge coaches from the outside...but if you can sense danger, so to speak, you can sense this thing stinks...it's buoyed by talent, that's fine, but it's not clear that the environment is really healthy there, it's not clear that this thing is really organized. It seems like a country club atmosphere (coincidentally, the Pittsburgh Penguins went through this for a time as well...which I can speak much more about it if only it were the appropriate board) and that falls on the organizational leadership that promotes that.

I think you're right in terms of of players they should have the most talented offense in the NFL they have Antonio Brown probably the best receiver in the NFL and they have Bell who's considered the best running back in the NFL alongside Roethlisberger who's considered a top 5 quarterback.  The only possible competition might be from Dallas with that offenseive line Dez Bryant and Ezekiel Elliott.  But you might give the Steelers The Edge because of their Superior quarterback.

[mikey287]

And they have two WRs that are better than Dez Bryant at this point. Dez is a has-been, with all due respect to him. And Dak Prescott is not a noteworthy QB in this league, as you mentioned. 

 

Tomlin is historically a bad game manager too. I mean, I like the one fan take up there that "everything is fine"... it bodes well for me because I'm a Colts fan and Tomlin will keep them from reaching their true potential. It's like Marvin Lewis staying in Cincinnati...it's just two teams that I likely won't have to worry about, couldn't ask for much more...

 

Tomlin might be the best cheerleader in the NFL, I'll give him that. But it certainly seems like the technical details of the game elude him in such a way that he's holding back an offense that ought to be preparing for New England right now. Dick Lebeau left and his defense falls apart. A guy with actual technical know-how. So it's Tomlin with Haley and Butler I think, none of them have ever given the impression - both in terms of on-field results or off-field banter that they are notable pieces in this thing. Two of them are so busy trying to be the smartest guy in the league/room that they are completely tone deaf and it's the ol' Emperor has no clothes thing...and then Butler just surrendered 45 points, at home, in a playoff game, to Blake Bortles...a guy who thinks the plural of "goose" is "sheep"...

[-JJ-]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

First, we should acknowledge that the Jaguars might actually be good this year.  Not to say that they don't have flaws, but there team matches up well with Pittsburgh.  As far as the Steelers losing to inferior teams that me be the case but I don't think a team that averages 11-12 wins a year in the last 5 that is really a problem.  I can say the same thing for the Patriots.  They obviously lose to lesser teams because they've only had one undefeated season and are almost always the favorite.  They seem to lose to the Dolphins and Chiefs every year or so but it's no big deal.

 

Now the perception of the team being out of control because of outspoken players and guys making Facebook videos is way overblown.  Those same guys put in MVP performances week in and week out.  Tomlin has also went through an entire team, staff and scheme overhaul and has NO LOSING SEASONS in 11 years as coach.  They lost Dick LeBeau, Troy Polamalu, Jerome Bettis, Bruce Arians, Hines Ward, Joey Porter, and the list goes on and on.  They went from 3-4 "Blitzburgh" to a 4-3 "Dungyburgh" zone.  They went from bombs away Arians to dink and dunk Haley.  They move on from WR after WR from Superbowl MVP WRs to MVP candidate WRs.  And through all of that the team wins and is in contention.  He also develops talent quite well.  The Steelers don't have many "wasted" high picks and they've developed low picks like Antonio Brown or Villenueva.

 

I think his in game decision making is questionable at times but I'm not blaming the HC for the calls that the OC and DC make on 4th down or on critical 3rd downs.  I blame the HC for going for it on 4th or calling onside kicks or the big decisions.  Once they make the call the coordinators pick the play.  This perception of control or ruling with an iron fist is totally overrated and archaic.  These guys (especially the millennials) are going to more and more push back against that.  You don't always get the most out of people by keeping your thumb on them.  Sometimes working with them and letting them be themselves yields the best results.  Everyone is different.

Lot of good and valid points there.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, mikey287 said:

Well, I mean, I touched on it in the post you quoted. Look at how the Steelers have under-performed against far inferior teams...they play down to their opponents regularly...this has been the case for a while now...and it's this cocky, toxic environment that he has created. Not the first time the Jaguars have beaten them at home in a playoff game under Tomlin with the guise of a big opponent to follow...Bort beat them, David Garrard beat them...Tim Tebow, one of the worst QBs in NFL history, beat them...that wild card loss to Baltimore a few years ago was a joke too...but ignoring the big stuff, even during the regular season, they cut it way too fine against teams they should be trouncing with their talent. 

 

This might be the most talented offense in the league. And they might know that, but they don't utilize it. They always try to get too tricky for their own good, they want to be geniuses...4th & 1...power forward QB Ben Roethlisberger...a sneak is too easy, even un-athletic 40-year-old Tom Brady still runs sneaks, Ben is like 15 for 15 on getting first downs on sneaks or some ridiculous stat...in a big spot, they go back to back toss sweep right against a diesel front 7. They need to go 1 yard, their QB is 2 yards tall, they go 5 yards behind the LOS and stretch it out into WRs and TEs who can't block LBs. This was the same thing with their overuse of the TE screen in years passed that cost them dearly in big spots.

 

Even the guys in the locker room, Mike Mitchell, a horrendous player in his own right...talking about how they were prepared for New England...as a result, they didn't get to play them.

 

You can go on and on, and it's tough to judge coaches from the outside...but if you can sense danger, so to speak, you can sense this thing stinks...it's buoyed by talent, that's fine, but it's not clear that the environment is really healthy there, it's not clear that this thing is really organized. It seems like a country club atmosphere (coincidentally, the Pittsburgh Penguins went through this for a time as well...which I can speak much more about it if only it were the appropriate board) and that falls on the organizational leadership that promotes that.

 

Tomlin may get the blame for everything bad, but that doesn't mean he caused everything bad. If he did overrule the OC and had him call in a sweep instead of a sneak without a huddle (thus no audible out of it into a sneak, Ben has said they have no ability to call a sneak audible at the line of scrimmage before), then oops. But he has also overruled the OC and made it work, like when he called go for 2 instead of the PAT kick against the Colts (when Pitt scored and made the score Colts 17, Steelers 15). They got it and tied the game.  You win some, you lose some (overruling and calling the onside kick that fails, etc...)... nature of coaching. But the HC oversees the offense game plan and resulting call sheet.... not makes it.  OC, QB and key assistant O coaches all weigh in, with OC and then QB carrying the most weight.

 

Only one team each year wins the Super Bowl.  There are lots of failure teams. if your team is not in the playoffs, they have no chance.  Steelers have won their fair share of SB's, and made many playoff appearances.  All teams lose some heart breakers (Whodat!! ...   that caught that 61 yard TD pass!).  I look at the whole body of work, not just a few infrequent items.

 

Sometimes it seems to me a few of our own folks are so tired looking at the filth in our home, they go looking for dirty spots in others.

[-JJ-]

4 hours ago, chad72 said:

I still did not understand the onside kick with 2 timeouts and the 2 minute warning to help you. Jags went 3 and out and still had good field position for a FG. Choosing to defer against a team that loves playing ahead with their run game and pass D was a bit questionable too. Zone coverage more often against wide outs that do not fight jams well, IMO???

 

At first I'm thinking what real difference would it make. An onside if it fails you start at around the 50 yd I think? (this was worse because it didn't even go 10 yds).

 

So with 3 and out (and you have to get that whether onside or not) you're punting and maybe it gets pinned near the goal line or goes in the end zone in which it comes out to the 20 anyway. Plus you get the odds of a successful on side kick which I think is 30-70?

 

 

[mikey287]

To be clear, I'm examining the whole body of work and this is my conclusion. It has remained unchanged for years. My hockey team is Pittsburgh, so I'm exposed to a lot of their games/talk/discussion/etc. Tomlin seems to be successful in spite of himself sometimes...his loosey, goosey style might have pushed the right buttons with some guys, I grant that, he's not horrendous...but he's - as I termed it above - "sneaky bad" as an actual coach in this league...I actually thought that was pretty well known, I'm a touch surprised at the push back...he's a cheerleader, an ugly, ugly cheerleader. I think the deeper you are into the details of the game, the more Tomlin looks inadequate/incompetent...

 

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, -JJ- said:

At first I'm thinking what real difference would it make. An onside if it fails you start at around the 50 yd I think? (this was worse because it didn't even go 10 yds).

 

So with 3 and out (and you have to get that whether onside or not) you're punting and maybe it gets pinned near the goal line or goes in the end zone in which it comes out to the 20 anyway. Plus you get the odds of a successful on side kick which I think is 30-70?

 

 

 

The fact that the onside kick was botched and it cost them another 5 yards or something in penalty plus it gave the Jags enough field position to go for a FG even with a 3 and out was what my gripe was.

 

If you get the 3 and out without a FG given up, you have the chance of blocking a punt or getting some kind of return or at worst possibly get a game tying TD instead of being down 2 scores. That is the difference.

[Smoke317]

The guy who is “sneakily bad” so to speak is Big Ben.  As great as the head coach is, you have to have that “leader” on the field. And Big Ben is a sub par leader because he’s a person of low character and it trickles down.  But since he’s the QB he gets away with never taking any responsibility. Tomlin doesn’t check him and that is his fault but Ben’s leadership or lack there of is what holds them back.  Can you imagine Peyton, Brady, Brees, or even Rivers allowing the crap that goes on in Pittsburgh that Ben allows???  Not a chance.

 

Ben has lost the moral authority to check others because of his off field transgressions that he’s gotten away with and the many times he’s thrown his coaches and teammates under the bus...  Who is he to question anyone else???  And Tomlin is the enabler.  Dumb onside. But what else is new?  How many dumb 2 point attempts  have we seen?  How many dumb 4th and shorts where Ben throws the bomb rather than getting the first?  There were a few in that game...

 

Sure Brown (one of the greatest receivers in league history) bailed him out on one with an unbelievable catch but it’s just not smart football.  They have low football IQ’s over there.  Other 4th down he missed Rogers wide open in the flat...  Forced a tougher throw that was incomplete. On the other they waste time & allow Jags to call a timeout and reset their defense and then run a toss sweep on less than a foot...  Foolish.  

 

Then Ben (a 2 time winning super bowl QB) complains that they didn’t run a sneak as if he doesn’t have any authority to tell Haley let’s sneak it...  That guy is their gift and curse and Tomlin is scared to bring the hammer down on him and the rest know it and do as they please.  

[mikey287]

Now we're getting it. The only negative points I'm going to mark down here is that you didn't use the popular Pittsburgh term "Drama Ben"...other than that, that's an A+ paper. Excellent summation.

[Jules]

Tomlin is by far the most overrated coach in the league and has been for some years. Yes I know the win total by the Steelers but that team has zero leadership at times and it STARTS with Mike Tomlin and his attitude.

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, mikey287 said:

To be clear, I'm examining the whole body of work and this is my conclusion. It has remained unchanged for years. My hockey team is Pittsburgh, so I'm exposed to a lot of their games/talk/discussion/etc. Tomlin seems to be successful in spite of himself sometimes...his loosey, goosey style might have pushed the right buttons with some guys, I grant that, he's not horrendous...but he's - as I termed it above - "sneaky bad" as an actual coach in this league...I actually thought that was pretty well known, I'm a touch surprised at the push back...he's a cheerleader, an ugly, ugly cheerleader. I think the deeper you are into the details of the game, the more Tomlin looks inadequate/incompetent...

 

 

 

I wonder if you feel any of these are better than Tomlin-

 

Fox, Del Rio, Pagano, Caldwell, Lewis, Arians, Koetter, Bowles, Jay Gruden ...

 

Who is available that is better is a better question?  Rules in NEL... i f you let a player or coach go, you must have a better alternative  in place.

 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Well, I mean, I touched on it in the post you quoted. Look at how the Steelers have under-performed against far inferior teams...they play down to their opponents regularly...this has been the case for a while now...and it's this cocky, toxic environment that he has created. Not the first time the Jaguars have beaten them at home in a playoff game under Tomlin with the guise of a big opponent to follow...Bort beat them, David Garrard beat them...Tim Tebow, one of the worst QBs in NFL history, beat them...that wild card loss to Baltimore a few years ago was a joke too...but ignoring the big stuff, even during the regular season, they cut it way too fine against teams they should be trouncing with their talent. 

 

This might be the most talented offense in the league. And they might know that, but they don't utilize it. They always try to get too tricky for their own good, they want to be geniuses...4th & 1...power forward QB Ben Roethlisberger...a sneak is too easy, even un-athletic 40-year-old Tom Brady still runs sneaks, Ben is like 15 for 15 on getting first downs on sneaks or some ridiculous stat...in a big spot, they go back to back toss sweep right against a diesel front 7. They need to go 1 yard, their QB is 2 yards tall, they go 5 yards behind the LOS and stretch it out into WRs and TEs who can't block LBs. This was the same thing with their overuse of the TE screen in years passed that cost them dearly in big spots.

 

Even the guys in the locker room, Mike Mitchell, a horrendous player in his own right...talking about how they were prepared for New England...as a result, they didn't get to play them.

 

You can go on and on, and it's tough to judge coaches from the outside...but if you can sense danger, so to speak, you can sense this thing stinks...it's buoyed by talent, that's fine, but it's not clear that the environment is really healthy there, it's not clear that this thing is really organized. It seems like a country club atmosphere (coincidentally, the Pittsburgh Penguins went through this for a time as well...which I can speak much more about it if only it were the appropriate board) and that falls on the organizational leadership that promotes that.

 

Yeah......

 

That 13-3 record Steelers fans had to put up with?!?       Wow,  I can't believe they'd tolerate such poor performance.

 

116 wins in 11 years.     It's been terrible to watch that type of bad football.      Can't believe Tomlin has been able to fool so many people for so long.

 

Hey,  here's a question?     Do you follow football much?

 

Can't tell by your posts.......      goodness gracious......          

[Jules]

Steelers obsess over the Patriots too much, period. They thump their chests and act like they are the toughest things on the planet and then at home in the playoffs they give up 45 points to a Blake Bortles led offense.

 

The sad thing is the Steelers HAVE enough talent to beat the Patriots and anyone in the league but constantly do stupid crap and act like they are such tough guys since they are "da Steelerz."

 

Steelers do the dumbest crap at little moments in games that make you shake your head too......situational football.

 

I don't even care what the record is under Tomlin. That team he inherited was already awesome when they won it all that one time, it was basically Cowhers team.

[aaron11]

i thought he made some bad calls in that game

 

clearly they are not very good at onside kicks, they would have been much more likely to win by playing defense 

[tikyle]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah......

 

That 13-3 record Steelers fans had to put up with?!?       Wow,  I can't believe they'd tolerate such poor performance.

 

116 wins in 11 years.     It's been terrible to watch that type of bad football.      Can't believe Tomlin has been able to fool so many people for so long.

 

Hey,  here's a question?     Do you follow football much?

 

Can't tell by your posts.......      goodness gracious......          

 

I think everyone thinks if their coach isn't BB then they are inadequate.  BB is a genius.  We can all admit that.  But guys like Tomlin, Reid and Carroll are great coaches, they just don't stack up to BB.

 

I would ask this, would you rather have a Tomlin/Reid/Carroll type where you're in the playoffs every year but you only win a SB or two at most or would you rather have a Coughlin type where you "disciplined, on time, militant" and you make the playoffs maybe half of the time but you win two SB's out of nowhere?

[mikey287]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah......

 

That 13-3 record Steelers fans had to put up with?!?       Wow,  I can't believe they'd tolerate such poor performance.

 

116 wins in 11 years.     It's been terrible to watch that type of bad football.      Can't believe Tomlin has been able to fool so many people for so long.

 

Hey,  here's a question?     Do you follow football much?

 

Can't tell by your posts.......      goodness gracious......          

 

What a weird way to attack...especially considering I already said that people are gonna look at this without nuance and just cite the record and think everything is fine. 

 

You backed it up with absolutely nothing except for a misplaced question mark. Why go this route? This isn't the first time Tomlin has been on the hot seat internally despite the record you cite, that gives a decent amount of credence to what I said...which, again, requires some nuance and the ability to sense danger...as opposed to the binary "green mean good, red mean bad" take that you decided to limp all-in on...

 

I provided some degree of backdrop, from an outsider's perspective...you read a table out of the newspaper...and then asked if I follow football...? It's just a weird way to go about it...and I'm not even saying that in an "I'm right and you're wrong" sort of way, I'm very much open to the idea of my take on things (which is pretty clearly shared within the organization as well by some) is up for debate...but that's only if you come to the table with something of substance. 

 

The whole "look at his record" and "only one team can win the Super Bowl" stuff can be checked at the door...I feel like we can do better than that...well, I pray that we can do better than that...

[mikey287]

8 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I wonder if you feel any of these are better than Tomlin-

 

Fox, Del Rio, Pagano, Caldwell, Lewis, Arians, Koetter, Bowles, Jay Gruden ...

 

Who is available that is better is a better question?  Rules in NEL... i f you let a player or coach go, you must have a better alternative  in place.

 

 

This is a more interesting question. 

 

After Tomlin, assuming team makeup remains similar and that he was fired for the reason(s) I'm suggesting, there will be a fall-on-the-sword-guy...old school guy...he'll get the culture in the right direction, he'll get the pH level back to something more palatable...he'll be fired quickly (not Pittsburgh like, I know). The next guy will pick up where replacement1 left off and start to massage whatever talent is left...by then though, so much of the current star power will be gone that the underachieving/bad culture will be pinned on whoever leaves in the biggest blaze of sour grapes...so either Drama Ben flips out and quits for good and throws everyone under the bus on the way out or, more likely, Le'Veon Bell trashes the organization for some type of mi$treatment...a few years go by, the player that hollers gets the Jaromir Jagr treatment and Tomlin retains a strong legacy and maybe even gets a statue that can be run just barely onto the field for every kickoff...

[Reality Check]

16 hours ago, tikyle said:

First, we should acknowledge that the Jaguars might actually be good this year.  Not to say that they don't have flaws, but there team matches up well with Pittsburgh.  As far as the Steelers losing to inferior teams that me be the case but I don't think a team that averages 11-12 wins a year in the last 5 that is really a problem.  I can say the same thing for the Patriots.  They obviously lose to lesser teams because they've only had one undefeated season and are almost always the favorite.  They seem to lose to the Dolphins and Chiefs every year or so but it's no big deal.

 

Now the perception of the team being out of control because of outspoken players and guys making Facebook videos is way overblown.  Those same guys put in MVP performances week in and week out.  Tomlin has also went through an entire team, staff and scheme overhaul and has NO LOSING SEASONS in 11 years as coach.  They lost Dick LeBeau, Troy Polamalu, Jerome Bettis, Bruce Arians, Hines Ward, Joey Porter, and the list goes on and on.  They went from 3-4 "Blitzburgh" to a 4-3 "Dungyburgh" zone.  They went from bombs away Arians to dink and dunk Haley.  They move on from WR after WR from Superbowl MVP WRs to MVP candidate WRs.  And through all of that the team wins and is in contention.  He also develops talent quite well.  The Steelers don't have many "wasted" high picks and they've developed low picks like Antonio Brown or Villenueva.

 

I think his in game decision making is questionable at times but I'm not blaming the HC for the calls that the OC and DC make on 4th down or on critical 3rd downs.  I blame the HC for going for it on 4th or calling onside kicks or the big decisions.  Once they make the call the coordinators pick the play.  This perception of control or ruling with an iron fist is totally overrated and archaic.  These guys (especially the millennials) are going to more and more push back against that.  You don't always get the most out of people by keeping your thumb on them.  Sometimes working with them and letting them be themselves yields the best results.  Everyone is different.

There seems to be a desire to overlook many/most of the Steeler's (perceived) issues in this post.

 

I am wondering if you think it is easily overlooked when other players on the team feel like it is a significant problem...see David DeCastro's comments below?  IMO, DeCastro's comments speak to a locker room that is clearly divided...and upon peeling the onion back, we all know that Tomlin enables his players to speak publically in they ARE FOLLOWING HIS EXAMPLE.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/david-decastro-team-pregame-obsession-021128690.html

[mikey287]

Nah...they're 13-3, so there can't be any problems...don't look into it any further, take the nuances of the locker rooms in organized professional sports and shove them...13-3!

[WoolMagnet]

18 hours ago, Reality Check said:

Oh...now I get it.  Thanks for clarifying!

 

So, this is just an internal rift.  I wonder if Seth Wickersham is gonna write a big expose on the turmoil inside Heinz Field?  LOL

After seeing your confusion on the word "minority", and reading the exchanges.....:: i then saw your name and almost peed my pants:

how ironic is he hat?

 

[tikyle]

19 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

There seems to be a desire to overlook many/most of the Steeler's (perceived) issues in this post.

 

I am wondering if you think it is easily overlooked when other players on the team feel like it is a significant problem...see David DeCastro's comments below?  IMO, DeCastro's comments speak to a locker room that is clearly divided...and upon peeling the onion back, we all know that Tomlin enables his players to speak publically in they ARE FOLLOWING HIS EXAMPLE.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/david-decastro-team-pregame-obsession-021128690.html

 

So I take it you believe in all that bulletin board material/faux praise/don't ever make the opponent mad ethos?  KC didn't overlook TEN or give them any bulletin board material and they still lost.  Same goes for the Rams vs Atlanta or Atlanta vs PHI and on and on.  The Steelers got beat.  They got beat by a team that kept them to 9 points in the first matchup and they scored 42 this past week and still lost.  I mean I just don't think anyone was overlooked or what any Steeler said gave the Jags super powers to overcome them and prevail in victory.  The Steelers defense is average and they are without their best defensive player.  Jacksonville also forced a few turnovers and that was enough to win the game.

 

Remember circa 2001-2004 when the Colts said all the right things and respected their opponent and still laid eggs in the playoffs?  It means nothing, it's just something the sports media uses as a means to justify an outcome they didn't predict.  When teams get that same bulletin board material and lose why is that never examined?  Did they not post the material in the right spot on the board?  Was the quote not posted on the bulletin board in time enough for it to buoy the game plan?  Did the team providing the material game plan for the material they provided and used it as a reverse jinx?

 

Jacksonville was the better team on that day.  It's as simple as that.  If any of those guys that "provided material" played visibly worst than they normally play then you could point to that and say it's an issue but if all you got is the players were yapping too much, that's pretty weak.  Those same guys yapped every game and went 13-3.  Those same guys yapped vs New England and if it wasn't for a bad rule they would've won there and not even had to play Jacksonville.  Those are just the breaks in the NFL.

[mikey287]

You're not wrong. However, what you're saying is not taking a wider view of the situation. You're taking one individual incident and instead of applying it to the rubber band ball of this thing, you're carrying it away from the situation and comparing it vertically to other like scenarios (well, not actually, but in theory you want to be doing that)...which is distracting to the point, whether intentionally or not is irrelevant...

[Reality Check]

6 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

So I take it you believe in all that bulletin board material/faux praise/don't ever make the opponent mad ethos?  KC didn't overlook TEN or give them any bulletin board material and they still lost.  Same goes for the Rams vs Atlanta or Atlanta vs PHI and on and on.  The Steelers got beat.  They got beat by a team that kept them to 9 points in the first matchup and they scored 42 this past week and still lost.  I mean I just don't think anyone was overlooked or what any Steeler said gave the Jags super powers to overcome them and prevail in victory.  The Steelers defense is average and they are without their best defensive player.  Jacksonville also forced a few turnovers and that was enough to win the game.

 

Remember circa 2001-2004 when the Colts said all the right things and respected their opponent and still laid eggs in the playoffs?  It means nothing, it's just something the sports media uses as a means to justify an outcome they didn't predict.  When teams get that same bulletin board material and lose why is that never examined?  Did they not post the material in the right spot on the board?  Was the quote not posted on the bulletin board in time enough for it to buoy the game plan?  Did the team providing the material game plan for the material they provided and used it as a reverse jinx?

 

Jacksonville was the better team on that day.  It's as simple as that.  If any of those guys that "provided material" played visibly worst than they normally play then you could point to that and say it's an issue but if all you got is the players were yapping too much, that's pretty weak.  Those same guys yapped every game and went 13-3.  Those same guys yapped vs New England and if it wasn't for a bad rule they would've won there and not even had to play Jacksonville.  Those are just the breaks in the NFL.

I am saying that there is an obvious division in their locker room .... and it stems from the HC & his actions.  Did the Jags seem genuinely p'd off at the Bell, Mitchell, BigBen, & Tomlin comments?

 

They fact they are fixated on NE comes from the HC and it certainly appears to have affected their play on the field as well.  Did you see the first 20 mins of Sunday's game?

 

They talked the talk but certainly were not ready to walk the walk... IMO.

[GoPats]

9 hours ago, Jules said:

Tomlin is by far the most overrated coach in the league and has been for some years. Yes I know the win total by the Steelers but that team has zero leadership at times and it STARTS with Mike Tomlin and his attitude.

 

I agree. He's a mediocre coach who benefits from having an elite QB, a super-elite WR, and entrenched systems on both sides of the ball. His ability to adjust to in-game situations is pretty bad. Poor clock management, lack of situational awareness, etc-etc. All you have to do is look at the Patriots game from week 15 and the Jags game to see how badly he handled their two biggest match-ups of the season.  

 

 

[tikyle]

5 minutes ago, GoPats said:

 

I agree. He's a mediocre coach who benefits from having an elite QB, a super-elite WR, and entrenched systems on both sides of the ball. His ability to adjust to in-game situations is pretty bad. Poor clock management, lack of situational awareness, etc-etc. All you have to do is look at the Patriots game from week 15 and the Jags game to see how badly he handled their two biggest match-ups of the season.  

 

 

 

You do realized those "entrenched systems on both sides of the ball" he created?  When he got the job he had Bruce Arians and Dick LeBeau, now he has Todd Haley and Keith Butler.  Both run totally different schemes than when Tomlin came in.  I can't argue your clock management or situational awareness take because I don't watch them enough but other than Big Ben everything the Steelers have and are was cultivated by Tomlin even that super-elite (6th round pick) WR.  He was developed under Tomlin.  You can't discount those things.  And the Patriots game is not a good example of him being a bad coach.  If the catch rule was better defined the Steelers would have won that game.  They lost on a technicality without their best defender.

[mikey287]

I think we're discounting organizational leadership and its importance. Though, as consolation, I'm glad that most of the dissenters in this have never worked for a company with poor organizational leadership and/or a toxic work environment...as such, can't really get a handle on the effects of that. Plus, they were profitable, so everything was fine regardless. Excellent.

[GoPats]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

You do realized those "entrenched systems on both sides of the ball" he created?  When he got the job he had Bruce Arians and Dick LeBeau, now he has Todd Haley and Keith Butler.  Both run totally different schemes than when Tomlin came in.  I can't argue your clock management or situational awareness take because I don't watch them enough but other than Big Ben everything the Steelers have and are was cultivated by Tomlin even that super-elite (6th round pick) WR.  He was developed under Tomlin.  You can't discount those things.  And the Patriots game is not a good example of him being a bad coach.  If the catch rule was better defined the Steelers would have won that game.  They lost on a technicality without their best defender.

 

I don't see Pittsburgh getting rid of him so it's a moot question anyway, but I would bet you that most of the NFL's run-of-the-mill head coaches would win a minimum of 10 games with that team.