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Beginning of the end for New England [Merge]


19colt

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The were 12-4 that year dude...and the Jets were 9-7, and the Bills were 7-9. And the Jets were SB favorites as late as week 13 or 14 that year before Favre got hurt. Speaking of Favre, it's a good thing for the homers that he happened in 2008 to completely gum up the AFC because if he hadn't the Pats would have made the playoffs.

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18 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Just a few points . . . 

 

First and most critically, BB, TB and the Pats have been together since 2000.  From 2000 to the present time the Pats are 195-55 (0.780) when Brady has started and 18-18 (0.500) when Brady has not been the starter, so a 0.280 difference (these numbers do not include the games in which Bledsoe and Brady got injured, numbers do include the few games which the team rested its starters at the end of seasons).  

 

Second, in 2008 the AFCE had a very easy schedule with three of the teams finishing over 0.500 (and the fourth, Buffalo, going 7-9).  This has only happened three times in the division, 2002, 2004 and 2008.   Also Miami, in a 10 year span from 2004 to 2014 Miami has only two winnings seasons (2008 11-5, 2005 9-7), and indication they are not the strongest team thereby qualifying the 2008 11-5 season may not have been that difficult to come by if the no so strong Fins can get 11 wins.  

 

Third, yes we were not great in 2009 and likely is our weakest team. This is also the year that the team had turmoil and has traded or lost to retirement most of its early 2000s team and was in a rebuilding mode.  I" do agree with your point on this matter of 2009 but wanted to bring up the above points. 

 

In the end one must look at all things to get a better perspective on TB's contribution to the team and how the team has fared without him under center, and the analysis is not limited to just a few numbers from 2008, 2008, 2014 or 2000.   

 

First of all I don't think it really counts if the team was resting nearly off it's important players and not just the QB.  If they where doing that then it means the game didn't matter all that much.  Which likely ment that the coaching staff didn't even spend as much time preparing.  So they are .700 in games that matter without Tom Brady.

 

Secondly. . . .700 or .500 . . . How many teams out there are even .500 with their backup QB?  

 

Also something that gets lost is that the Patrioits have always fielded a good defense.  They are almost always top 10 in scoring defense and many times in their championship years they where top 5.  A couple times I think they where #1.  

 

Sure you could argue a good offense helps with that but during those years you can point to a lot of teams with good offenses that didn't have nearly that good of defense.  

 

Sure TB is a good QB but championships are team accomplishments.  And for that I think you have to look at the GM/HC

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Question:    How many of you here actually think it's a real possibility that BB and Brady will part ways?   Obviously, the 3rd person in the the equation here (Kraft)  isn't going anywhere.   So, do many of you think this might be the end for BB and 12?      

 

If so,  I think Kraft has made it clear who's corner he is in.

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27 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

An interesting article from a few years ago that is relevant to this... 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463606/article/tom-bradys-father-it-will-end-badly-in-new-england

 

That really doesn't sound that different from how a lot of star players go out.  They want to play forever and their team eventually decides it's time to move on.  And a lot of times that leads to some hurt feelings.  

 

It's a lot harder with quarterbacks though.  Look at what happened with Farve in Green Bay.  That took guts for the Green Bay management to trade him away and that move was extremely unpopular with the fan base and upset Farve for years.  But it was the right call. 

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9 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Question:    How many of you here actually think it's a real possibility that BB and Brady will part ways?   Obviously, the 3rd person in the the equation here (Kraft)  isn't going anywhere.   So, do many of you think this might be the end for BB and 12?      

 

If so,  I think Kraft has made it clear who's corner he is in.

 

I don't see it.  It's only one report and it came out really late in the season.  

 

There might be some discontent there but I don't think there is enough yet for BB to leave just yet.  

 

He's still set up that he can win some more SB's as long as Brady keeps playing well.  But you never know when the floor is going to fall out under them and I think BB's a little ticked because he wanted to roll with Jimmy G so that floor didn't fall out and Kraft basically told him that he's going to have to play Brady until Brady sucks and is able to recognize that he sucks and retire of his own free will.  Of course all of that could take a while and it would mean the Pats would have to take some losses they might not have otherwise taken.

 

Also it's just hard to find a capable starting QB, especially without using a 1st round pick.  BB had a young one he stole in the 2nd sitting in the corner already and he was forced to get rid of him.  So now he has to try to find one again.  But not only is he not likely to be in a spot to take one in the first round for when the floor falls out, but also it's likely Kraft would overrule him if he tried to pick one in the first round.  

 

And I think there might be a sense that BB wanted to prove to the world that the championships where because of his coaching and management and not because of Brady.  Brady sort of fell into his lap on accident and if he could win with Jimmy G. it was his chance to prove it was all because he was a genius and Tom Brady falling into his lap was a happy accident but he was gonna win anyways.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't see it.  It's only one report and it came out really late in the season.  

 

There might be some discontent there but I don't think there is enough yet for BB to leave just yet.  

I think it's been pretty clear that there is.    But that happens with most teams, or jobs in general.   

 

To me, it seems Brady's Guru is at the center of it all.

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6 minutes ago, Gramz said:

I think it's been pretty clear that there is.    But that happens with most teams, or jobs in general.   

 

To me, it seems Brady's Guru is at the center of it all.

 

I don't know how much the Guru has anything to do with it.  I think it's just a simple thing that he wanted to move on from a player before he declined rapidly having his replacement sitting on the roster.  But this player Kraft told him he can't do that.  

 

It does put him in a precarious position too.  Like I said, he's got to plan ahead for Tom Brady's playing to decline.  He had the plan and it got taken away.  But finding a new franchise QB is hard enough.  It's even harder when you consider that Kraft is likely to overrule any first round picks on QB's.  

 

BB wanted to make the cold calculating football decision to keep the Pats on top.  Kraft made the emotional decision and basically decided that Tom Brady decides when he wants to go out.  

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Kinda feel for BB in this situation but honestly he may have saved JGs career and now his assistants are groomed to be great and leaving for a better chance and in a few years Patriots will be horrible. This read made me hate Brady a whole lot more and felt bad for BB

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4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't know how much the Guru has anything to do with it.  I think it's just a simple thing that he wanted to move on from a player before he declined rapidly having his replacement sitting on the roster.  But this player Kraft told him he can't do that.  

 

It does put him in a precarious position too.  Like I said, he's got to plan ahead for Tom Brady's playing to decline.  He had the plan and it got taken away.  But finding a new franchise QB is hard enough.  It's even harder when you consider that Kraft is likely to overrule any first round picks on QB's.  

 

BB wanted to make the cold calculating football decision to keep the Pats on top.  Kraft made the emotional decision and basically decided that Tom Brady decides when he wants to go out.  

haha yeah, sorry about the "Guru" comment.  Sorry, Not Sorry.  lmao  

 

I "get" what you're saying.....   And I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded statement.   Time will tell if this is the beginning of the end.

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How is the schedule easier when the division wins more games? I don't have all of the schedules in front of me but I do remember watching the Jets that year and seeing them play the NFC SB team and the 11-0 Titans I think in addition to the division. So unless everybody else was playing the Raiders and Lions every week...

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5 minutes ago, lance_m8 said:

Kinda feel for BB in this situation but honestly he may have saved JGs career and now his assistants are groomed to be great and leaving for a better chance and in a few years Patriots will be horrible. This read made me hate Brady a whole lot more and felt bad for BB

Yeah.  But it appears that it turned out well for JG.     It happens.   I'm glad he was able to help SF win their final 5 games.   

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Just now, Gramz said:

Yeah.  But it appears that it turned out well for JG.     It happens.   I'm glad he was able to help SF win their final 5 games.   

NE dynasty is dying and the 49ers have re-emerged Truthfully gained some respect for BB how he handled this situation he could've called hue Jackson and got tons of picks from Cleveland instead he sent JG to a team with a solid foundation

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

They traded both away this year

Honestly I feel that even if JG stayed that the patriots would crash and burn soon when BB leaves I mean the OC and DC are most likely leaving the whole organization is gonna be rebuilding not just the roster

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

I feel a little different but since I grew up as a Coaches kid I have known guys like BB and my Dad was an exact opposite of him

I try looking at it without a bias and purely on just his legacy what he has done and how he has handled this but when it comes down to it the Patriots organization is the worst to ever exist and I can not wait for them to be the next Browns Go Colts

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Joint statement now released by Kraft, Brady and Belichik:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/05/belichick-brady-kraft-we-stand-united/

 

Statement in full:

 

“For the past 18 years, the three of us have enjoyed a very good and productive working relationship. In recent days, there have been multiple media reports that have speculated theories that are unsubstantiated, highly exaggerated or flat out inaccurate. The three of us share a common goal. We look forward to the enormous challenge of competing in the postseason and the opportunity to work together in the future, just as we have for the past 18 years. It is unfortunate that there is even a need for us to respond to these fallacies. As our actions have shown, we stand united.”

 

Pretty vanilla statement that doesn't come out strong, wont do anything to dispel the story.

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Just now, DaveA1102 said:

Joint statement now released by Kraft, Brady and Belichik:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/05/belichick-brady-kraft-we-stand-united/

 

Statement in full:

 

“For the past 18 years, the three of us have enjoyed a very good and productive working relationship. In recent days, there have been multiple media reports that have speculated theories that are unsubstantiated, highly exaggerated or flat out inaccurate. The three of us share a common goal. We look forward to the enormous challenge of competing in the postseason and the opportunity to work together in the future, just as we have for the past 18 years. It is unfortunate that there is even a need for us to respond to these fallacies. As our actions have shown, we stand united.”

 

Pretty vanilla statement that doesn't come out strong, wont do anything to dispel the story.

IMO it only solidifies the ESPN report

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1 minute ago, DaveA1102 said:

Joint statement now released by Kraft, Brady and Belichik:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/05/belichick-brady-kraft-we-stand-united/

 

Statement in full:

 

“For the past 18 years, the three of us have enjoyed a very good and productive working relationship. In recent days, there have been multiple media reports that have speculated theories that are unsubstantiated, highly exaggerated or flat out inaccurate. The three of us share a common goal. We look forward to the enormous challenge of competing in the postseason and the opportunity to work together in the future, just as we have for the past 18 years. It is unfortunate that there is even a need for us to respond to these fallacies. As our actions have shown, we stand united.”

 

Pretty vanilla statement that doesn't come out strong, wont do anything to dispel the story.

I'm surprised it took this long.  haha

Exactly the statement I expected them to release.

 

I mean, seriously.    Did anyone think otherwise going into this playoff season.     Of course they're going to say everything is hunky dory.

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1 minute ago, Gramz said:

I'm surprised it took this long.  haha

Exactly the statement I expected them to release.

 

I mean, seriously.    Did anyone think otherwise going into this playoff season.     Of course they're going to say everything is hunky dory.

Sounded like a PR person wrote it 

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Whether this is true or not, eventually these 3 men will part ways. Retirements are coming at some point.  When that is, I can't say.  What happens in the aftermath will be interesting to see. I think they could lose Brady and still be competitive as Im confident Hoodie can coach up another QB..... I think though, if they were to lose Hoodie, that'd be the death nail.  Kraft really isn't as key as those other 2. 

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People believe what they want to believe. I think most of this is likely drivel....I do think there was an issue with Brady's trainer and the teams medical staff as other players started going to him to get treatment and it undermined the staff. The rest of the Jimmy G stuff etc....I don't buy. Bill Belicheck doesn't answer to anyone over there about personnel. Not Tom Brady and I very much doubt Robert Kraft. I would bet he would walk away before being told what to do with his team. If he leaves after this year then I'll believe the story but I don't believe that anyone effects his decisions on who to keep and who to start etc etc. I also don't think he wants to ruin his legacy in NE by sabatoging anything at the end. The trainer stuff aside they held on to Jimmy for as long as they could to ensure Tom's health and then they do what they always do....trade him away...get assets and will draft another qb to groom. They aren't going to keep both...and aren't going to pay the back up more than the starter. If they thought Jimmy was better than Tom and should start next year they would have kept him, re-signed him, and started him. They believe that Tom has at least a couple more years left and that is more than enough time to find another qb in the draft and groom.

 

The who is the most important etc....in the end players on the field play the game...no matter how great the coaches are they make the decisions and execute. Tom is great....Bill is great....and Kraft is pretty smart. Add great to great and you get a legendary dynasty. I think both win a SB or more without the other...but together they achieved heights they wouldn't have achieved on their own. That said Tom was the one performing...he is the most important piece. Just like Peyton he would have won a SB when he had a good coach and team around him. They might not have been a dynasty but they would have been good. Without Tom I'm sure Bill would have found a way to win a SB too...whether that was with Drew Bledsoe or another qb he would have found....but together these guys established themselves as the greatest team/dynasty in the leagues history.

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The thing to remember is that this is not a B/R bit ESPN

Remember...ESPN fired all its accomplished reporters and staff. They are going broke. In all actuality they probably hired the replacements from B/R. lol

1 hour ago, DraftMaster said:

This is a complete non-story. I'll believe the end of the New England dynasty when I see it.

Exactly.

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