Caged Animal

[MarquisJ]

Haven’t seen anyone bring this up thought it was a fun read but Quincy Wilson on Instagram stated that his rookie year he felt like a caged animal and boy do I agree.. but now with a year under his belt and hopefully a little more maturity I feel like 2018 could be his year the sky is the limit for him he’s shown a lot of promise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stampedeblue.com/platform/amp/2018/1/4/16846730/quincy-wilson-says-he-was-a-caged-animal-in-2017

[DaveA1102]

His first year was so odd, being a healthy scratch and implications of not applying himself fully in practice, but then ending the season really well.

 

The article makes a good point in reference to the fact Pagano may have been trying to make a point by not playing him to make him a better player, but surely giving him the reps is the best way to make him a better player, especially in a year where mistakes are not as big a deal as we suck anyway!  Let him make them this year!

 

I also found it interesting the "caged animal" post came the day after Pagano was let go.  Perhaps coincidence....

[UKColt13]

Very interesting. I recall the reason he as kept out was a maturity thing. 

 

Interesting to see if he gets more leeway from the new staff.

[NannyMcafee]

I have seen players who don't practice well, do amazing things on sundays. Sundays are what matter. Seeing as how both sundays Wilson played, he did well, then you play Wilson. I'm sorry but I'll never agree with leaving our second round pick on the bench for the likes of Green. 

[WoolMagnet]

22 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I have seen players who don't practice well, do amazing things on sundays. Sundays are what matter. Seeing as how both sundays Wilson played, he did well, then you play Wilson. I'm sorry but I'll never agree with leaving our second round pick on the bench for the likes of Green. 

Well, they always said Tolzien looked good in practice, so i guess they had to balance that out.

[a06cc]

Also remember the excuse “he doesn’t know how to play special teams”? Or “everyone needs to earn their spot”? 

[csmopar]

There is one silver lining in all this.... between the decision to play Green over Wilson was for sure Pagano. However, no one can say that Ballard was interfering with coaching personnel decisions that Grigs was said to be doing...... that said, I kind of understand why Grigson tried to make those decisions, Pagano couldn't and wasn't making the right ones. Pagano seems like a very loyal guy and appear to like to stick with guys who had been with the team longer regardless of their performance unless there were high visibility players waiting in the winds (Kelly, hooker, to name a couple) 

[lollygagger8]

I guess we'll finally get to see more of him now that Pagano is gone. 

[stitches]

2 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

Very interesting. I recall the reason he as kept out was a maturity thing. 

 

Interesting to see if he gets more leeway from the new staff.

As far as I remember it was supposedly because of special teams - because Kenny Moore was better special teams player and applied himself more on special teams than Wilson. Yep, that's our Chuck. Healthy scratch your second round pick who played well in the first chance he got before he got injured because Kenny Moore's special teams value. 

[crazycolt1]

Wow, another bash Pagano thread.

[Valpo2004]

3 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

His first year was so odd, being a healthy scratch and implications of not applying himself fully in practice, but then ending the season really well.

 

The article makes a good point in reference to the fact Pagano may have been trying to make a point by not playing him to make him a better player, but surely giving him the reps is the best way to make him a better player, especially in a year where mistakes are not as big a deal as we suck anyway!  Let him make them this year!

 

I also found it interesting the "caged animal" post came the day after Pagano was let go.  Perhaps coincidence....

 

Could be but I don't entirely trust Pagano's judgement on the matter either.  It was increasingly clear that it was his last season in Indy and Pagano has a history of taking far too long to figure out when someone on his bench has more talent then someone he has on the field.  

 

Although I believe I read the same article earlier and I thought it overstated Wilson's play a little bit.  Give him too much credit for coverage in a blizzard against backup quarterbacks and ignored that he was consistently burned while playing the Broncos.  

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

As far as I remember it was supposedly because of special teams - because Kenny Moore was better special teams player and applied himself more on special teams than Wilson. Yep, that's our Chuck. Healthy scratch your second round pick who played well in the first chance he got before he got injured because Kenny Moore's special teams value. 

 

If you want to be honest, he wasn’t going to start back then, and didn’t deserve to start.  So you don’t keep him active and sit a guy who’s been practicing STs all week.  

 

Also, his position coach is watching him practice and reporting to the HC. He’s the one recommending who should play/sit.  I know it’s contrary to all the conspiracy theories but no coach is going to sit a player who can help him win unless there’s a really good reason. 

 

You guys have to get over blaming everything on Pagano.  Let it go.

[stitches]

33 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

If you want to be honest, he wasn’t going to start back then, and didn’t deserve to start.  So you don’t keep him active and sit a guy who’s been practicing STs all week.  

 

Also, his position coach is watching him practice and reporting to the HC. He’s the one recommending who should play/sit.  I know it’s contrary to all the conspiracy theories but no coach is going to sit a player who can help him win unless there’s a really good reason. 

 

You guys have to get over blaming everything on Pagano.  Let it go.

I am sorry but I cannot believe the head coach had no say in who plays, especially if we are talking about our second round pick. And that doesn't absolve the position coaches either. It was a holistic problem on many levels. That's why I'm happy most of that coaching staff will very likely not be returning. 

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I am sorry but I cannot believe the head coach had no say in who plays, especially if we are talking about our second round pick. And that doesn't absolve the position coaches either. It was a holistic problem on many levels. That's why I'm happy most of that coaching staff will very likely not be returning. 

 

Yes, the HC makes the final decision. But he gets his information from the position coaches.   Even at the lower levels like high school, we knew we had to impress our position coaches, the HC has too many things going on to watch everyone.  

 

So, in this particular case, I tend to believe the coaches who said he didn’t come in to camp in great shape, and may be a bit of a prima donna.   Of course the kid is going to say he was a ‘caged animal’.  He was probably caged because he wasn’t doing all the things that you need to do in order to start.  

[Fisticuffs111]

Wilson's situation was kind of similar to Stephen Morris' IMO. Showed up in games, seemed to be better than guys seeing the field more than them (TJ Green, Tolzien), but coaches consistently referred to practice habits or "applying himself."

[Four2itus]

If you have to result to social media to describe your previous feelings of unfairness, there is still likely a bit of immaturity there. Pagano was not the reason for everything's failure, and I hope we as fans can grasp that.....because it will help us with our views of the next coach and the depth of his challenge. 

 

My gut feeling is, he was treated in the manner he needed, to allow him grow. 

[Superman]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

There is one silver lining in all this.... between the decision to play Green over Wilson was for sure Pagano.

 

What does one have to do with the other? Green hardly played corner during the season. Wilson was hurt most of the first half of the season. They weren't competing for playing time.

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

If you have to result to social media to describe your previous feelings of unfairness, there is still likely a bit of immaturity there. Pagano was not the reason for everything's failure, and I hope we as fans can grasp that.....because it will help us with our views of the next coach and the depth of his challenge. 

 

My gut feeling is, he was treated in the manner he needed, to allow him grow. 

 

Maybe Wilson needed that humbling to know what he needs to get right in order to play. Guess what, new coach, new rules. If Quincy doesn't wow the new coach in practice, it might be deja vu again, buddy. Like Marvin Harrison said, you get paid to practice. The game, you play for fun.

 

Out before someone pulls in an Allen Iverson practice gif...  

 

It is not like people have lined up to sign Stephen Morris...just sayin...

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What does one have to do with the other? Green hardly played corner during the season. Wilson was hurt most of the first half of the season. They weren't competing for playing time.

Wilson was a "healthy" scratch for most of the season... while others such as Green did play.

[Aluckiswolverine]

Yeah one of the many Pagano mysteries. Also when did Pagano become untouchable?

 

He was a turd of a head coach, seemed like a great guy but real crappy head coach.

 

He must have a lot of family members on this forum because if you say anything negative out come people upset. 4-12 folks that’s on the head coach. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I have seen players who don't practice well, do amazing things on sundays. Sundays are what matter. Seeing as how both sundays Wilson played, he did well, then you play Wilson. I'm sorry but I'll never agree with leaving our second round pick on the bench for the likes of Green. 

 

Yeah, this whole thing was really annoying all season long. And there were people that actually supported Pagano's decision to bench Wilson in favor of Green, I'll never understand it.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What does one have to do with the other? Green hardly played corner during the season. Wilson was hurt most of the first half of the season. They weren't competing for playing time.

 

No they weren't competing for playing time, but the fact that Pagano & Monachino continually referenced Wilson's maturity issues as the reason he was a healthy scratch, then trotted Green out there without any hesitation was really annoying considering some of the boneheaded nonsense Green would pull on any given play.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Wilson was a "healthy" scratch for most of the season... while others such as Green did play.

 

Wilson was a healthy scratch for a few weeks. Prior to that, he was still not cleared medically. 

 

Green played at a different position. His status had practically nothing to do with Wilson's.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

I am sorry but I cannot believe the head coach had no say in who plays, especially if we are talking about our second round pick. And that doesn't absolve the position coaches either. It was a holistic problem on many levels. That's why I'm happy most of that coaching staff will very likely not be returning. 

Who cares at this point? Pagano has been fired in case you missed it.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

No they weren't competing for playing time, but the fact that Pagano & Monachino continually referenced Wilson's maturity issues as the reason he was a healthy scratch, then trotted Green out there without any hesitation was really annoying considering some of the boneheaded nonsense Green would pull on any given play.

 

:: sighs ::

 

Green's issues are dramatically overblown on this site. I think he had one personal foul this season, and it was egregious and stupid, to be sure, but it was not a reason for him not to play ever again. Aside from that, he was fine. He's not a very good player, but he's nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be. And, unlike Wilson, he's actually good on special teams.

 

As far as we know, Green has no maturity issues. He wasn't limited in practice with injury. He didn't report to camp out of shape, as the staff suggesting Wilson did.

 

These are two different players, at different positions, with different circumstances.

 

I'm annoyed that Wilson didn't get more time, just like everyone else. But everyone seems to have made up their mind that Wilson was actually deserving of more playing time without acknowledging that he might have had significant behind the scenes issues that we are not aware of. For this staff -- Pagano and Monachino -- to publicly imply that one of their players was in the doghouse is a drastic departure from what they were known for, especially Pagano. So while I'm annoyed at the situation, I think Wilson probably has to take some of the blame for it.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with TJ Green.

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Yeah, this whole thing was really annoying all season long. And there were people that actually supported Pagano's decision to bench Wilson in favor of Green, I'll never understand it.

 

They didn't bench Wilson in favor of Green.

[CamMo]

He seems pretty diva-ish...

 

But with that being said, if he can help our team win, he should have played.

 

I was wondering if this topic was ever going to get posted. I went ahead and followed him on insta. He could post some interesting things during the off-season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

As far as I remember it was supposedly because of special teams - because Kenny Moore was better special teams player and applied himself more on special teams than Wilson. Yep, that's our Chuck. Healthy scratch your second round pick who played well in the first chance he got before he got injured because Kenny Moore's special teams value. 

As bad as our special teams is (minus our kickers) would it really matter if it was Moore or Wilson running down on kickoffs? I'm assuming it had a lot to do with attitude more than actual play.

[dgambill]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

:: sighs ::

 

Green's issues are dramatically overblown on this site. I think he had one personal foul this season, and it was egregious and stupid, to be sure, but it was not a reason for him not to play ever again. Aside from that, he was fine. He's not a very good player, but he's nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be. And, unlike Wilson, he's actually good on special teams.

 

As far as we know, Green has no maturity issues. He wasn't limited in practice with injury. He didn't report to camp out of shape, as the staff suggesting Wilson did.

 

These are two different players, at different positions, with different circumstances.

 

I'm annoyed that Wilson didn't get more time, just like everyone else. But everyone seems to have made up their mind that Wilson was actually deserving of more playing time without acknowledging that he might have had significant behind the scenes issues that we are not aware of. For this staff -- Pagano and Monachino -- to publicly imply that one of their players was in the doghouse is a drastic departure from what they were known for, especially Pagano. So while I'm annoyed at the situation, I think Wilson probably has to take some of the blame for it.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with TJ Green.

I've got no problem with Green if he brings value to this team. If he ends up just being a special teams monster than so be it. Lots of guys have great careers by effort and doing the little things. Look at Slater or DHB....these guys will continue to have long careers because of the value they bring. It might be an expensive pick to use on him but if Green sticks it out for 8 more years just making plays on special teams than I'm fine with that! If Wilson isn't willing to do the dirty work to get on the field then he shouldn't see it. Nothing is handed to you in life. He either better get his attitude straightened out or really step up his game...because he isn't nearly good enough to dog it and just show up on sundays.

[Shadow_Creek]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

There is one silver lining in all this.... between the decision to play Green over Wilson was for sure Pagano. However, no one can say that Ballard was interfering with coaching personnel decisions that Grigs was said to be doing...... that said, I kind of understand why Grigson tried to make those decisions, Pagano couldn't and wasn't making the right ones. Pagano seems like a very loyal guy and appear to like to stick with guys who had been with the team longer regardless of their performance unless there were high visibility players waiting in the winds (Kelly, hooker, to name a couple) 

i fear you are right and that's exactly why the rams released Jeff fisher because he also was sticking with tradition vets by not playing goff till the team was sinking real deep

[shasta519]

5 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Could be but I don't entirely trust Pagano's judgement on the matter either.  It was increasingly clear that it was his last season in Indy and Pagano has a history of taking far too long to figure out when someone on his bench has more talent then someone he has on the field.  

 

Although I believe I read the same article earlier and I thought it overstated Wilson's play a little bit.  Give him too much credit for coverage in a blizzard against backup quarterbacks and ignored that he was consistently burned while playing the Broncos.  

 

Due to the strange circumstances surrounding his rookie season, Wilson has probably become the most overrated Colts player. And to be honest, it sort of started when he was drafted. The same author of that SB article about Wilson's IG post also unabashedly gave the Wilson pick an A+ grade after the draft. 

 

He definitely has upside and could be a good player...but him being inactive wasn't the injustice people are making it out to be.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Wilson's situation was kind of similar to Stephen Morris' IMO. Showed up in games, seemed to be better than guys seeing the field more than them (TJ Green, Tolzien), but coaches consistently referred to practice habits or "applying himself."

 

No...the Morris situation is different. Morris wasn't banged up and there wasn't any ambiguity about his health like with Wilson. And Morris was demonstably better than this counterpart...and was so for more than one preseason. He also wasn't a rookie like Wilson...he was a vet who had put in his time on PSs for years...including with the Colts. 

 

Outside of a terrible attitude or work ethic in practice (which was never reported aside from the vague comments from Pagano and Ballard), he had "earned" the chance to win that backup spot...but the powers that be had already decided that Tolzien would be the backup before camp even started, despite saying it would be a competition:

 

It's over now...but the Morris situation will forever irk me.

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I have seen players who don't practice well, do amazing things on sundays. Sundays are what matter. Seeing as how both sundays Wilson played, he did well, then you play Wilson. I'm sorry but I'll never agree with leaving our second round pick on the bench for the likes of Green. 

 

They didn't pick Green over Wilson.   They don't even play the same position.

 

Wilson was benched because he was getting out worked in practice...   on and off the field.    It's hard to reward someone who is not putting out when everyone else is working their tail off and Wilson was not.    That's how you lose the locker room.   You reward the wrong guy.

 

The thing is this...  the story on season long snaps shows Wilson received the third most snaps for the year.    Hopefully the kid has figured it out and will be a professional.    He's got great talent.

 

Last thought:  If Ballard  objected he could have stepped in at any time.    And he didn't.   That should tell you Pagano was doing the right thing.......

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, CamMo said:

He seems pretty diva-ish...

 

But with that being said, if he can help our team win, he should have played.

 

I was wondering if this topic was ever going to get posted. I went ahead and followed him on insta. He could post some interesting things during the off-season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My thought too.  He take's to social media about being wronged (paraphrasing) because he didn't play.

 

I kind of agree with Pagano's assessment of immaturity, so maybe it showed up in practice.

[BOTT]

I'm far from a Pagano fan, but you can't blame him for sitting Wilson.  We ask for a more disciplined team and then complain when Chuck dishes it out.

[crazycolt1]

56 minutes ago, DougDew said:

My thought too.  He take's to social media about being wronged (paraphrasing) because he didn't play.

 

I kind of agree with Pagano's assessment of immaturity, so maybe it showed up in practice.

He has talent so let's hope he can mature this off season. Who ever is named head coach more than likely will not have too much patience dealing with immaturity.

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Yeah one of the many Pagano mysteries. Also when did Pagano become untouchable?

 

He was a turd of a head coach, seemed like a great guy but real crappy head coach.

 

He must have a lot of family members on this forum because if you say anything negative out come people upset. 4-12 folks that’s on the head coach. 

There are no family members of Pagano in here. It serves no purpose for you to insult those who have a pretty good idea why things went south.

For you to even call Pagano a turd shows your lack of maturity and or class.

[Aluckiswolverine]

22 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There are no family members of Pagano in here. It serves no purpose for you to insult those who have a pretty good idea why things went south.

For you to even call Pagano a turd shows your lack of maturity and or class.

I call it like a see it. He was a turd coach. You must be one of the “classy” Colt fans. FYI nobody likes you guys. 

 

Its ok to not think highly of a football coach who stunk up your favorite team. Get out of here with that classy and mature crap. 

 

Im a Colt fan for life don’t care if I’m not classy or mature enough for you or anyone else on a football forum. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

I call it like a see it. He was a turd coach. You must be one of the “classy” Colt fans. FYI nobody likes you guys. 

 

Its ok to not think highly of a football coach who stunk up your favorite team. Get out of here with that classy and mature crap. 

 

Im a Colt fan for life don’t care if I’m not classy or mature enough for you or anyone else on a football forum. 

Being a Colts fan has nothing to do with anything. You have shown who you are. Live with it.

[Aluckiswolverine]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Being a Colts fan has nothing to do with anything. You have shown who you are. Live with it.