Pacergeek

After Pittsburgh getting hosed, I'm done with NFL

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I'm not buying it that the Patriots are SB contenders every single year on their own. In a league where winning and losing teams fluctuate season by season, the Patriots are always good. Even when they suffer significant injuries, the Patriots continue winning. I understand that they have possibly the GOAT HC and QB. Other teams have HOF QB's, smart HC, and they have losing seasons. Also, every single controversial call benefits NE. All of the winning, and benefiting from controversy cannot be a coincidence. Some shenanigans are obviously going on here behind the scenes, and I'm no longer going to support a crooked organization like the NFL

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:facepalm:

 

The Patriots are good because the other teams forget that it is a 60 minute game and don't play till the end and overthink it and outsmart themselves. Peyton's teams recently against the Patriots in the playoffs, and Eli's Giants teams, coached by Coughlin, were not in awe and didn't try to do anything fancy, just played 60 minutes till the clock struck 00:00, that is it.

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Every off-season, Belichick lets his best players on defense walk away. He replaces them with bums. Not buying that his "system" is so much better than everybody else's system

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4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

:facepalm:

 

The Patriots are good because the other teams forget that it is a 60 minute game and don't play till the end and overthink it and outsmart themselves. Peyton's teams recently against the Patriots in the playoffs, and Eli's Giants teams, coached by Coughlin, were not in awe and didn't try to do anything fancy, just played 60 minutes till the clock struck 00:00, that is it.

The Steelers were still screwed out of a win 

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22 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I'm not buying it that the Patriots are SB contenders every single year on their own. In a league where winning and losing teams fluctuate season by season, the Patriots are always good. Even when they suffer significant injuries, the Patriots continue winning. I understand that they have possibly the GOAT HC and QB. Other teams have HOF QB's, smart HC, and they have losing seasons. Also, every single controversial call benefits NE. All of the winning, and benefiting from controversy cannot be a coincidence. Some shenanigans are obviously going on here behind the scenes, and I'm no longer going to support a crooked organization like the NFL

That call was crap.

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6 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Every off-season, Belichick lets his best players on defense walk away. He replaces them with bums. Not buying that his "system" is so much better than everybody else's system

They are cheating again I have no doubt about it.

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The Patriots gave up a game winning 80 yard touchdown drive in 2 plays.  A fluke elbow dislodging the ball is why they won.

 

If the fix was in, then God himself rigged it, not the NFL.

 

But I became much less interested in the NFL after ESPN came up with the phony QBR rating in order to justify the performances of the QBs it wanted to promote.

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i do kind of agree. its going to be really bad if they win the superbowl.  

 

the colts probably wont be anything special next year either, we might still suck.  hard to be optimistic here 

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Single coverage of Gronk? Stupid. They lost because they did not play well enough and smart enough to win. Single coverage on Gronk?! Really?!  Who is Brady going to throw to late in the game? The reception rule for the ball crossing the goal line is not the same as a runner crossing the goal line with the ball. Play by the rules or go home. I was pulling for Pittsburgh but I have seen this way too many times for it to be a disappointment. It is almost the law of physics.

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1 hour ago, Pacergeek said:

I'm not buying it that the Patriots are SB contenders every single year on their own. In a league where winning and losing teams fluctuate season by season, the Patriots are always good. Even when they suffer significant injuries, the Patriots continue winning. I understand that they have possibly the GOAT HC and QB. Other teams have HOF QB's, smart HC, and they have losing seasons. Also, every single controversial call benefits NE. All of the winning, and benefiting from controversy cannot be a coincidence. Some shenanigans are obviously going on here behind the scenes, and I'm no longer going to support a crooked organization like the NFL

you're done with the NFL and yet you log into a NFL fan forum to let everyone know.  Genius. Enjoy the NBA,

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What I wonder is if Jesse James turned around with his body with his feet on the ground, took a lateral step, and his feet left the air and if he tries to break the plane, is he treated like a runner?

 

Because a runner breaks the plane, it is a TD but a receiver, he is better off leaving his feet than going to the ground based on the current rules? Did I get that right? 

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43 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The Steelers were still screwed out of a win 

The Seahawks had them. The Falcons had them. The Steelers had them. Screwed or lost fair and square? Recall the Manning film where he said for the first time ever he could not look up at the game with Brady on the field with little time on the clock. That day Brady threw an INT to send the Colts on to victory. Then there was the fourth down play game when the Pats failed by inches to get the first down giving the win to the Colts. The Pats are human but sometimes like yesterday, it is tough to believe.

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2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

What I wonder is if Jesse James turned around with his body with his feet on the ground, took a lateral step, and his feet left the air and if he tries to break the plane, is he treated like a runner?

 

Because a runner breaks the plane, it is a TD but a receiver, he is better off leaving his feet than going to the ground based on the current rules? Did I get that right? 

It is not enough for a receiver to just break the goal line plane he must also maintain possession through the play. A runner can extend his hand over the line but a receiver does not have the same privilege.

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I will say the OP does bring up one valid point and I mentioned it in the game thread.

 

New England seems to always be the beneficiaries of these controversial calls. And they're always at critical moments of the game. I can't remember the last time that they've been the victim of them.

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29 minutes ago, King Colt said:

It is not enough for a receiver to just break the goal line plane he must also maintain possession through the play. A runner can extend his hand over the line but a receiver does not have the same privilege.

 

Are you telling me the receiver won't be treated like a runner if it is a 40 yard catch and run? I think he will. The issue was he was going to the ground, and if Jesse James catches it at the 5 yard line, establishes himself as a runner and goes in with his feet in the air, I think he gets treated like a runner. Otherwise, you would not have WRs or even pass catching RBs trying to stretch over the plane in a catch and run situation. Going to the ground is the definitive differential, IMO. That is why Calvin Johnson's TD got overruled that resulted in the catch rule, that is why Dez Bryant's catch in that playoff game got overruled, and then this one.

 

Let me see if I can find footage to support my case. Here is a link, it does say that if the receiver becomes a runner, he will get the SAME privileges as a RB, the problem is Jesse James did not establish himself as a runner by taking a few lateral steps and made the ground a factor. Several examples are provided in this.

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/17/themmqb-catch-nfl-rulebook-dez-bryant-no-catch-larry-fitzgerald-golden-tate-tyler-eifert-odell

 

The true problem is the NFL rules committee should define clearly when the WR becomes a runner. Two steps AFTER the catch is made is enough for me. If every WR just thinks 2 steps, I think we would be fine. That way, going to the ground, not going to the ground, all that stuff is irrelevant.

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Patriots do a lot of stupid things too, and they are allowed to get away with it. I think on the go-ahead TD, their RB was supposed to go down before crossing the end zone, causing Pitt to burn their last time out. Also, on the catch and run from JuJu, NE players ran into each other, instead of forcing JuJu out of bounds, thus causing a big play. 

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

The Patriots gave up a game winning 80 yard touchdown drive in 2 plays.  A fluke elbow dislodging the ball is why they won.

 

If the fix was in, then God himself rigged it, not the NFL.

 

But I became much less interested in the NFL after ESPN came up with the phony QBR rating in order to justify the performances of the QBs it wanted to promote.

You blame the nfl for espn?!?

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2 hours ago, King Colt said:

Single coverage of Gronk? Stupid. They lost because they did not play well enough and smart enough to win. Single coverage on Gronk?! Really?!  Who is Brady going to throw to late in the game? The reception rule for the ball crossing the goal line is not the same as a runner crossing the goal line with the ball. Play by the rules or go home. I was pulling for Pittsburgh but I have seen this way too many times for it to be a disappointment. It is almost the law of physics.

That call was terrible catch rule is garbage possession and stretched it over the goal line touchdown don't care what anybody says.

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

What I wonder is if Jesse James turned around with his body with his feet on the ground, took a lateral step, and his feet left the air and if he tries to break the plane, is he treated like a runner?

 

Because a runner breaks the plane, it is a TD but a receiver, he is better off leaving his feet than going to the ground based on the current rules? Did I get that right? 

Jesse James was screwed out of a touchdown.

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4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You blame the nfl for espn?!?

No.  I blame ESPN for covering the NFL in a way that makes it less interesting to traditional viewers by trying to cover it more like a niche sport like the NBA.  The coverage makes watching anything other than the game itself pretty difficult.

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3 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Jesse James was screwed out of a touchdown.

I agree.  He crossed the plane with full possession, both feet on the ground and the ball secured.  The play should stop as soon as he crosses the plane.  

 

The rule as it stands now makes no sense.   Just like the tuck rule years ago. 

 

So NE either cheats or is lucky.  Take away that and they might have won one superbowl in the Brady years.

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3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

I'm not buying it that the Patriots are SB contenders every single year on their own. In a league where winning and losing teams fluctuate season by season, the Patriots are always good. Even when they suffer significant injuries, the Patriots continue winning. I understand that they have possibly the GOAT HC and QB. Other teams have HOF QB's, smart HC, and they have losing seasons. Also, every single controversial call benefits NE. All of the winning, and benefiting from controversy cannot be a coincidence. Some shenanigans are obviously going on here behind the scenes, and I'm no longer going to support a crooked organization like the NFL

 

For the sake of argument, let's dismiss the notion that a football game can even really truly be "fixed" unless you've involved people from both teams, the league, etc... it's staggeringly impossible, when you start to actually think about it, to pull something like that off without someone blabbing about it. But let's just ignore that and assume that your theory holds any water at all. 

 

How do you explain the league taking away multiple first-round picks from them, suspending Brady for a ridiculous four games for Deflategate, etc? They have not exactly been the league's sweethearts for quite some time now. Since Spygate really. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

What I wonder is if Jesse James turned around with his body with his feet on the ground, took a lateral step, and his feet left the air and if he tries to break the plane, is he treated like a runner?

 

Because a runner breaks the plane, it is a TD but a receiver, he is better off leaving his feet than going to the ground based on the current rules? Did I get that right? 

 

Same question here. At what point does the receiver become the runner? Because if a RB does what he did... it's a TD. 

 

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The rule as applied on the catch actually seems quite clear to me, even though this play in particular was a bit of a sticky wicket.

 

He made the catch, turned in a football move, reaching out to break the plane of the goal line, which normally would be a touchdown ....

 

However, because as he caught the ball he was on his way down to the ground, by rule, he must maintain possession throughout the entire process of the catch. Ergo, he must not lose possession of the ball upon hitting the ground.

 

It was kind of cruddy because he seemed to have possession as he turned and reached, but the reversal was correct because by rule it is no catch because he did not maintain possession on his way to the ground, having not previously made an upright football move (taking a few steps with clear possession).

 

So, hypothetically, as some have asked, if he had made the catch and taken a few steps in full possession, then thereafter diving forward reaching out, it would have been a touchdown, even though he kind of bobbled the ball a bit as the ball hit the ground after he had broken the plane of the goal line.

 

Again, the rule as applied to somebody running with possession, as in the example above, did not apply because upon making the catch he was on the way to the ground, instead of running a few steps first with possession.  When making a catch and going to the ground as part of the momentum of making that catch, as was the case here, you must clearly maintain possession throughout the entire process of going to the ground.  Not saying I like the rule, but as written, the call of no catch was correct.

 

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26 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

 

However, because as he caught the ball he was on his way down to the ground, by rule, he must maintain possession throughout the entire process of the catch. Ergo, he must not lose possession of the ball upon hitting the ground.

 

this can be taken different ways.  id argue he never lost possession

 

the ball moving around a little is not losing possession imo 

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50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  I blame ESPN for covering the NFL in a way that makes it less interesting to traditional viewers by trying to cover it more like a niche sport like the NBA.  The coverage makes watching anything other than the game itself pretty difficult.

 

NBA is far from niche...its worldwide, that's the farthest thing from niche. Nfl would be more niche than nba as nfl is not as worldwide. 

 

If they were treating it loot a niche sport, it wouldn't be hardly covered at all.

 

Try again.

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53 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  He crossed the plane with full possession, both feet on the ground and the ball secured.  The play should stop as soon as he crosses the plane.  

 

The rule as it stands now makes no sense.   Just like the tuck rule years ago. 

 

So NE either cheats or is lucky.  Take away that and they might have won one superbowl in the Brady years.

Agreed.

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3 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

NBA is far from niche...its worldwide, that's the farthest thing from niche. Nfl would be more niche than nba as nfl is not as worldwide. 

 

If they were treating it loot a niche sport, it wouldn't be hardly covered at all.

 

Try again.

Its covered by the media in a soap opera fashion.  Like what kind of shoes a player wears.  They went global because they ran out of people in the USA who care about that...and its not very many.

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22 hours ago, aaron11 said:

this can be taken different ways.  id argue he never lost possession

 

the ball moving around a little is not losing possession imo 

Actually, it can't be taken in different ways.  If a receiver's momentum takes him down to the ground while in the act of making a catch, that receiver has to maintain full possession of the ball through the entire process of going to the ground.  When the Pitt receiver hit the ground, he clearly bobbled the ball, losing grasp on the ball with the ball making contact with the ground out of his control.  He then regained control, but the damage was done, he never maintained control through the process.  No catch. 

 

What my eyes saw is entirely in agreement with the call ... and while the announcers were seemingly dumbfounded about what was taking the reviewers so long, for he was clearly across the line with the ball, I pointed out to those that were watching the game with me, that they are reviewing whether or not he actually caught the ball, for you can clearly see that he does not maintain complete control of the ball while going to the ground, that he bobbles it, losing control as the ball hits the ground.  With the ball in his grasp when he hit the ground, had he NOT bobbled it, then the call would not have been reversed.  The fact that he bobbled it, though, meant that he had to regain control, but because it hit the ground out of his control, it is indisputably no catch, as the rule is written.

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6 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

I'm not buying it that the Patriots are SB contenders every single year on their own. In a league where winning and losing teams fluctuate season by season, the Patriots are always good. Even when they suffer significant injuries, the Patriots continue winning. I understand that they have possibly the GOAT HC and QB. Other teams have HOF QB's, smart HC, and they have losing seasons. Also, every single controversial call benefits NE. All of the winning, and benefiting from controversy cannot be a coincidence. Some shenanigans are obviously going on here behind the scenes, and I'm no longer going to support a crooked organization like the NFL

I always say that there arent any coincidences in life.

i havent watched a superbowl live with NE in it since spygate.  I dvr them incase they lose.  I watch it IF they lose:  if NE plays in SB, i'll be interested in seeing viewer numbers.

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3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That call was terrible catch rule is garbage possession and stretched it over the goal line touchdown don't care what anybody says.

No one likes the rule but it is the rule. It started with the Cowboys game a few years back.The ball is dead when a runner puts the ball over the line but the receiver must "complete the process" what ever that is. The NFL Competition Committee came up with this rule and  being that former players are members of it just makes it more stupid. I'm certain none of the members that are former receivers agreed with this. I believe the Steelers can beat NE in NE in the playoffs if all are healthy in part due to how well they  played yesterday. 

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When it comes to scoring the Rules Committee need to factor in the excitement factor in  other words the fans!! We are seeing roughing calls now that are called if the players text each other. Think it's bad now? Just wait.

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23 minutes ago, King Colt said:

No one likes the rule but it is the rule. It started with the Cowboys game a few years back.The ball is dead when a runner puts the ball over the line but the receiver must "complete the process" what ever that is. The NFL Competition Committee came up with this rule and  being that former players are members of it just makes it more stupid. I'm certain none of the members that are former receivers agreed with this. I believe the Steelers can beat NE in NE in the playoffs if all are healthy in part due to how well they  played yesterday. 

Well he had possession more than long enough that call was nonsense.

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6 hours ago, chad72 said:

What I wonder is if Jesse James turned around with his body with his feet on the ground, took a lateral step, and his feet left the air and if he tries to break the plane, is he treated like a runner?

 

Because a runner breaks the plane, it is a TD but a receiver, he is better off leaving his feet than going to the ground based on the current rules? Did I get that right? 

 

A few things . . . It is all about when one gains possession . . . i think of it this way . . . 

 

1) With a hand off the ball is not loose or bobbled and thus the moment the runner gets the ball he has possession.

 

2) As a pass has an intervening incompletion between the QB and WR, the latter needs to do a few things before being credited with possession.  He is credited with possession in the following manner.

 

2a) If he is standing up . . . 

 

He needs two feet, control of ball, and a football move (third step is the most common), then has possession

 

2b) If he is going to the ground (on his own accord or at the behest of a defender)

 

He needs an extra element of maintaining control as he goes to the ground, then has possession

 

 

Regarding a TD a player needs to be credited with possession combined with crossing the plane of the end zone.  RBs usually have possession as they cross the plane.  Sometimes though when a WR is falling in the end zone it is not till he is in the end zone that he completes all the element to get credit for possession, and then at that point is credited with a TD.   

 

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Game was pretty spitting image to Seahawks pats superbowl.  I don't know if its a game for New England or what. "Lets play with every team in the NFL, and not start trying until 8 mins left in the 4th." 

 

Gronk and Brady were playing catch last night.. Gronk is the biggest freak in the NFL. He cant be stopped.. unless Bill Belichick is game planning for him.

 

It'll be sicken to watch yet another AFC championship in Gillette, but at this point i'm sure its only Pats fans getting excited. The rest of us look at them like the spoiled brat 16 year old girl, that gets a band new car from mommy and daddy. I justsay congratulations to Patriots fans now.. nothing to get excited about anymore. We KNOW you're gonna in the end

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6 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Actually, it can't be taken in different ways.  If a receiver's momentum takes him down to the ground while in the act of making a catch, that receiver has to maintain full possession of the ball through the entire process of going to the ground.  When the Pitt receiver hit the ground, he clearly bobbled the ball, losing grasp on the ball with the ball making contact with the ground out of his control.  He then regained control, but the damage was done, he never maintained control through the process.  No catch. 

 

 

i just dont think bobbling it is losing possession, and yes it depends on how you define "possession" 

 

he still had that ball.  it wasn't on the ground, nobody else had it, and it wasn't loose in the air or anything.  it was between his arms the whole time

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23 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Game was pretty spitting image to Seahawks pats superbowl.  I don't know if its a game for New England or what. "Lets play with every team in the NFL, and not start trying until 8 mins left in the 4th." 

 

that was the first thing that came to my mind after that interception 

 

it was kind of eerie how similar the ends of those two games were

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20 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

that was the first thing that came to my mind after that interception 

 

it was kind of eerie how similar the ends of those two games were

Huge hype play leaving the Pats hearts in their butts.. the defense makes an incredible play off of a stupid decision. Pats go crazy.. 

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