Is this the end of the LOB? (Seattle D)

[dgambill]

I think it’s dead....it’s been getting older and losing pieces year after year and I think we are watching it die. I even wonder if Richard Sherman and Bennet or a couple others don’t get brought back next year.

[Chrisaaron1023]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I think it’s dead....it’s been getting older and losing pieces year after year and I think we are watching it die. I even wonder if Richard Sherman and Bennet or a couple others don’t get brought back next year.

LOL well at least for this year they've been dead since Oct. 

 

But they had they're flash in a pan. Next NFC team..

[Jules]

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Yep once they lost the SB to the Pats, it was over. Russ got his Ring though but that team will never sniff another Ring ever since his goof up. I have even Posted that over the last 2 years since they lost Lynch and losing players off their Defense. Wilson was extremely lucky to get drafted by a team that had a HOFame RB and a dominant Defense. Rams 42-7 in Seattle,  

[Jules]

I could honestly get on the Rams wagon for the postseason, for realz I could do that. Packers are not going to make it anyway.

[Jules]

You know, maybe we get Pats/Rams and we go full circle from 2001. Like some weird NFL karma thingie.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Jules said:

You know, maybe we get Pats/Rams and we go full circle from 2001. Like some weird NFL karma thingie.

That would be cute wouldn't it  

[oldunclemark]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:36 PM, dgambill said:

I think it’s dead....it’s been getting older and losing pieces year after year and I think we are watching it die.

ask Dallas

[NewColtsFan]

 

They may or may not make the playoffs, but I think rumors of their death are greatly exaggerated...

 

That is a very well coached team, and a very well run organization...

 

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss them...

 

[BOTT]

On 12/17/2017 at 10:12 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep once they lost the SB to the Pats, it was over. Russ got his Ring though but that team will never sniff another Ring ever since his goof up. I have even Posted that over the last 2 years since they lost Lynch and losing players off their Defense. Wilson was extremely lucky to get drafted by a team that had a HOFame RB and a dominant Defense. Rams 42-7 in Seattle,  

He was lucky to get drafted by such a talented team, sure, but the guy is a heckuva QB.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BOTT said:

He was lucky to get drafted by such a talented team, sure, but the guy is a heckuva QB.

Yeah he is Very Good, not sure Great as Great is a strong word. They need Atlanta to lose next week just to make the Playoffs. If Atlanta wins, Seattle is out.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah he is Very Good, not sure Great as Great is a strong word. They need Atlanta to lose next week just to make the Playoffs. If Atlanta wins, Seattle is out.

Not great? If you cant call Russell great then what only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are great? He has been more impressive then Andrew so far and I think Andrew has been great.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Not great? If you cant call Russell great then what only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are great? He has been more impressive then Andrew so far and I think Andrew has been great.

To me when I use the word Great I look at QB's over the last 10 years like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben. To me Wilson hasn't been better than those guys over the last decade but he is Very Good. I put Luck, Ryan, and Cam in the Very Good category as well. When Wilson won his SB it was more due to his Defense and Lynch running the ball than it was him. I don't think saying he is Very Good is a dis at all.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Not great? If you cant call Russell great then what only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are great? He has been more impressive then Andrew so far and I think Andrew has been great.

*due to injury and surrounding talent/coaching

[Clem-Dog]

RW : 95 games - 21,955 yards - 159 TDs 

AL :  60 games - 19,078 yards - 132 TDs 

 

 

I know it's a big if, but if Luck had remained healthy there would be no discussion, as it stands they are comparable.  However, Andrew will never have the benefit of throwing for less than a hundred yards in a game and winning.

[NFLfan]

42 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

RW : 95 games - 21,955 yards - 159 TDs 

AL :  60 games - 19,078 yards - 132 TDs 

 

I know it's a big if, but if Luck had remained healthy there would be no discussion, as it stands they are comparable.  However, Andrew will never have the benefit of throwing for less than a hundred yards in a game and winning.

 

I hate to do this because I am a Stanford fan and a big fan of Andrew Luck. But if you are going to use stats to argue your point, don't cherry-pick them. It makes your argument look bad. All the stats you failed to point out are better than Andrew's.

 

Wilson has a better completion percentage (64.1) than Andrew does (59.2)

Wilson has played more games but has fewer INTs (56 to 68) and therefore a better INT%.

Despite the stats you listed, Wilson has a better TD%.

Wilson's yards per attempt (Y/A) is higher (7.8) as well as his adjusted yards per attempt (AY/A) of 8.1. 

 

The Seahawks defense may be credited with winning the SB, but the defense has little to do with Wilson's stats. I think Andrew is a more skilled QB but Wilson has actually performed better. 

[Clem-Dog]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I hate to do this because I am a Stanford fan and a big fan of Andrew Luck. But if you are going to use stats to argue your point, don't cherry-pick them. It makes your argument look bad. All the stats you failed to point out were better than Andrew's.

 

He has a better completion percentage (64.1) than Andrew does (59.2)

Wilson has played more games but has fewer INTs (56 to 68) and therefore a better INT%.

Despite the stats you listed, Wilson has a better TD%.

Wilson's yards per attempt (Y/A) is higher (7.8) as well as his adjusted yards per attempt (AY/A) of 8.1. 

 

The Seahawks defense may be credited with winning the SB, but the defense has little to do with Wilson's stats. I think Andrew is a more skilled QB but Wilson has actually performed better. 

 

No problem... I just highlighted the two most coveted stats for a QB, thus no cherry picking as RW's are better.  Again, it's not hard to understand that if you prorate Andrew's numbers out there would be no comparison.  As it stands, RW has had the same benefit that has made Keenum a viable option in Minnesota this season.  The difference between having to score TDs on every possession to relying on your defense and settling for field goals makes all the difference.

[aaron11]

23 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I hate to do this because I am a Stanford fan and a big fan of Andrew Luck. But if you are going to use stats to argue your point, don't cherry-pick them. It makes your argument look bad. All the stats you failed to point out are better than Andrew's.

 

Wilson has a better completion percentage (64.1) than Andrew does (59.2)

Wilson has played more games but has fewer INTs (56 to 68) and therefore a better INT%.

Despite the stats you listed, Wilson has a better TD%.

Wilson's yards per attempt (Y/A) is higher (7.8) as well as his adjusted yards per attempt (AY/A) of 8.1. 

 

The Seahawks defense may be credited with winning the SB, but the defense has little to do with Wilson's stats. I think Andrew is a more skilled QB but Wilson has actually performed better. 

luck has more yards per game and more TDs per game played. 

 

the colts have not even been top 20 in rushing since luck has been here, while the seahawks have been #1.   

 

one thing rus is better at is being elusive and avoiding the injury.  luck will stay in the pocket and take a big hit, while making a late throw down the field.  wilson either protects himself and gets sacked or takes off running

[NFLfan]

27 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

luck has more yards per game and more TDs per game played. 

 

Yes, Clem-Dog pointed that out in his original post. But that is because Luck has also thrown more passes per game. I may be wrong but I believe that this is why Wilson has a higher TD% (5.7) to Luck's (5.0). So, if you throw more passes, most likely you will have higher volume numbers (more yards/game, more TDs/game and more INTs/game). The percentages give you a better picture.

[NFLfan]

47 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

 

No problem... I just highlighted the two most coveted stats for a QB, thus no cherry picking as RW's are better.  Again, it's not hard to understand that if you prorate Andrew's numbers out there would be no comparison.  As it stands, RW has had the same benefit that has made Keenum a viable option in Minnesota this season.  The difference between having to score TDs on every possession to relying on your defense and settling for field goals makes all the difference.

 

Based on the percentages, if Wilson threw more passes, his yards and TDs would be higher. However you showed number of games as opposed to number of passes.

 

Wilson is a much better player than Keenum.  Come on now. I would be feeling pretty confident if we had Wilson or Luck at QB. I like Keenum a lot (love his competitiveness and heart) but I am not as confident in him as I would be in some other QBs. He makes some poor decisions too frequently. He has been bailed out by dropped INTs and great plays by Thielen and Diggs.

[aaron11]

24 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Yes, Clem-Dog pointed that out in his original post. But that is because Luck has also thrown more passes per game. I may be wrong but I believe that this is why Wilson has a higher TD% (5.7) to Luck's (5.0). So, if you throw more passes, most likely you will have higher volume numbers (more yards/game, more TDs/game and more INTs/game). The percentages give you a better picture.

the thing with that is the seahawks didnt need rus to throw alot, while the colts did

 

luck had to take more chances because thats the only we win games.  i doubt rus would have taken the colts any further than luck did, while luck could have won a super bowl or two with that stacked team in seattle.

[Clem-Dog]

12 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Based on the percentages, if Wilson threw more passes, his yards and TDs would be higher. However you showed number of games as opposed to number of passes.

 

Wilson is a much better player than Keenum.  Come on now. I would be feeling pretty confident if we had Wilson or Luck at QB. I like Keenum a lot (love his competitiveness and heart) but I am not as confident in him as I would be in some other QBs. He makes some poor decisions too frequently. He has been bailed out by dropped INTs and great plays by Thielen and Diggs.

 

Unless the LOB expires Wilson will never be asked to throw more passes, especially ones in which he runs backwards then inexplicably wings it up for grabs.

[NFLfan]

14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the thing with that is the seahawks didnt need rus to throw alot, while the colts did

 

luck had to take more chances because thats the only we win games.  i doubt rus would have taken the colts any further than luck did, while luck could have won a super bowl or two with that stacked team in seattle.

 

That may be true but we will never know. 

 

If I had to start a team, I would probably pick a healthy Luck over a healthy Wilson. But it is laughable when folks completely dismiss Wilson's accomplishments.

 

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

the colts have not even been top 20 in rushing since luck has been here, while the seahawks have been #1.   

 

I am pretty sure that Wilson's rush yards contributed to it having been #1. Also, I doubt it is #1 this year or in 2015  when Lynch was on IR. Wilson had his best season in 2015 when Lynch was out and he looked like one of the top 3 QBs in the league. So, some could argue that Lynch hurt Wilson rather than helped him. 

[NFLfan]

31 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

Unless the LOB expires Wilson will never be asked to throw more passes, especially ones in which he runs backwards then inexplicably wings it up for grabs.

 

Lol. Whatever. 

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

So, some could argue that Lynch hurt Wilson rather than helped him. 

probably true for his personal stats, but not for the teams overall success

 

marshawn was a huge part of their super bowl winning team, and they should have given it to him for the second.  

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

It's dead but it has less to do with age or certain player's motivation or 1 play in the SB (how can you say Wilson is dogging it after some of the plays he's made this year). Pete has slowly lost them and that's why he's lowkey thinking of retiring if you didn't hear this morning. The players may have his back, but he doesn't have their leash. Like if I have a pen full of dogs, they might not bite me, but they're not going to all sit when I say sit if I do no better than Pete Carroll. 

 

Him coming back would involve cutting some guys, restructuring some guys and getting back to coaching some guys (aka putting them in their place). I don't see the 3rd option happening even if he stays.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I said it was over 2 months ago, scroll back and look at what I posted and there you have it. It was actually over when Wilson wanted to play hero with Carroll's crazy call from the 1 instead of giving the ball to Lynch in the SB. The Pats Defense was spent and Lynch could've moon walked into the endzone at that point. They gave away a SB, just unacceptable. Since that happened, Sherman hasn't been the same leader or team player. He has been critical of the Coach and QB. Cant blame him as a leader of the Defense.

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

It's dead but it has less to do with age or certain player's motivation or 1 play in the SB (how can you say Wilson is dogging it after some of the plays he's made this year). Pete has slowly lost them and that's why he's lowkey thinking of retiring if you didn't hear this morning. The players may have his back, but he doesn't have their leash. Like if I have a pen full of dogs, they might not bite me, but they're not going to all sit when I say sit if I do no better than Pete Carroll. 

 

Him coming back would involve cutting some guys, restructuring some guys and getting back to coaching some guys (aka putting them in their place). I don't see the 3rd option happening even if he stays.

I think Pete knows the roster is going to see a massive overhaul...and he is good slipping out the back door before all the dirty work needs done. Lots of big names on that defense but they are all past their prime. Still very good but their names and paychecks now surpass their production. Wilson is great but he is going to get killed if he has to carry this team anymore than he currently has. He has been amazing but we have seen what happened to Luck and Cam running around taking hits and they are twice his size. Time to refigure the team.

[dgambill]

Bringing this back due to relevance.

 

One thing I think you can take from it...it’s much harder to sustain a dominant defense than offense. Makes me realize why Polian put so many weapons around Peyton. You build a juggernaut offense like Colts had or what NE has had basically since 07 and Pittsburgh and even New Orleans you can sustain excellence for a long time because in today’s NFL that protects offensive playmakers defenders age faster. Teams like Denver and Seattle and SF and Baltimore those defenses can only stay elite for like 4-5 years tops. Jacksonville will have a small window as those guys will get older quick and expensive quick. I think that is another reason Ballard wants to go to the simpler defense and will try to surround Luck with playmakers.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Bringing this back due to relevance.

 

One thing I think you can take from it...it’s much harder to sustain a dominant defense than offense. Makes me realize why Polian put so many weapons around Peyton. You build a juggernaut offense like Colts had or what NE has had basically since 07 and Pittsburgh and even New Orleans you can sustain excellence for a long time because in today’s NFL that protects offensive playmakers defenders age faster. Teams like Denver and Seattle and SF and Baltimore those defenses can only stay elite for like 4-5 years tops. Jacksonville will have a small window as those guys will get older quick and expensive quick. I think that is another reason Ballard wants to go to the simpler defense and will try to surround Luck with playmakers.

It is much harder to sustain a Great Defense over a period of years, I agree 100%. That is why to me having a Franchise QB is more important than having a dominant Defense. I called it when I said Seattle wouldn't win another SB with the core of guys they had after they blew the last one. That was demoralizing losing like that and also Richard Sherman hasn't been the same attitude wise since that happened. Many players on that team disagreed with the play call in that SB at the end. That was a start of their demise. Another reason why I don't fully believe in the Jags sustaining longevity, they have a Very Good to Great Defense right now but once players start leaving for bigger contracts, look who they have at QB.

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is much harder to sustain a Great Defense over a period of years, I agree 100%. That is why to me having a Franchise QB is more important than having a dominant Defense. I called it when I said Seattle wouldn't win another SB with the core of guys they had after they blew the last one. That was demoralizing losing like that and also Richard Sherman hasn't been the same attitude wise since that happened. Many players on that team disagreed with the play call in that SB at the end. That was a start of their demise.

When you fly around and play with that kind of speed and physicality...your body breaks down. The whole secondary ended up like on IR. Pass rush too. It’s why Denver and Minnesota and Jacksonville need to make some hay....that core won’t be there forever. It’s also why I appreciate what Philly is doing. Go for it...always rebuild around Wentz.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, dgambill said:

When you fly around and play with that kind of speed and physicality...your body breaks down. The whole secondary ended up like on IR. Pass rush too. It’s why Denver and Minnesota and Jacksonville need to make some hay....that core won’t be there forever.

Yep. I even added to my Post as to why I don't believe in the Jags for more than 3 or 4 years sustaining winning play.

[TdungyW/12]

On 12/17/2017 at 3:36 PM, dgambill said:

I think it’s dead....it’s been getting older and losing pieces year after year and I think we are watching it die. I even wonder if Richard Sherman and Bennet or a couple others don’t get brought back next year.

It’s been dead ...... been done got 

[chad72]

On 12/17/2017 at 10:16 PM, Jules said:

You know, maybe we get Pats/Rams and we go full circle from 2001. Like some weird NFL karma thingie.

 

I don't need the Pats part of the circle, goes without saying.  

[shakedownstreet]

On 12/17/2017 at 10:22 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That would be cute wouldn't it  

 

No. It wouldn't.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Not to bash Russell Wilson but he isn't a healthy Andrew Luck where he can carry a team. He was real fortunate to get a Ring because of his Defense and having a Great RB in Lynch. He will never win another one IMO.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Its dead because its Rams and more so 49ers turn to reign in the west. 

[shakedownstreet]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not to bash Russell Wilson but he isn't a healthy Andrew Luck where he can carry a team. He was real fortunate to get a Ring because of his Defense and having a Great RB in Lynch. He will never win another one IMO.

 

Wilson is quite good, not great. I'd take him over other well established franchise guys like Dalton, Flacco, and a whole host of borderline franchise guys. I'd probably take him over Cam Newton even.

 

You're right about Luck. Only diehard Colts fans have truly witnessed the transcendent talent he really is. Some nat'l media gets it, but not like we do.

[TdungyW/12]

Seattle is releasing Sherman .... not even a trade for a draft pick or anything ..... dang!