Ongoing Colts 2018 draft talk........

[esmort]

I can't believe how many people are considering drafting a guard at #3... that's insane.  Go out and overpay some FA guards, but don't draft one in the top 5. 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, esmort said:

I can't believe how many people are considering drafting a guard at #3... that's insane.  Go out and overpay some FA guards, but don't draft one in the top 5. 

Most want to trade down and who cares where you take him if he is an elite talent the whole point is to pick game changers no matter what position 

 

I'd rather take an elite guard then reach for a player at a "elite" position that isn't very good 

[esmort]

13 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Mist want to trade down and who cares where you take him if he is an elite talent the whole point is to pick game changers no matter what position 

 

I'd rather take an elite guard then reach for a player at a "elite" position that isn't very good 

 

It's about positional value... even an elite guard is not worth a top 5 pick. There will be an elite player at a position with more positional value at #3. 

[Colts_Fan12]

22 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

It's about positional value... even an elite guard is not worth a top 5 pick. There will be an elite player at a position with more positional value at #3. 

Who? No need for QB running backs in top 5 is stupid Chubb isn't that great for top 5 and looks like a 4-3 fit we took Hooker last year so no need for fitz 

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Nelson looks a fine player but there's no way we can consider a guard at 3 over a potential defensive game wrecker like Chubb.

He is the best linemen coming out. He's not just some guard. 

[Coltsfanforlife12]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

Pass rushers get gassed in the pass happy NFL these days.  Its becoming a rotational position, IMO.  Its tough to truly judge the Oline since our QBs hold the ball the longest of just about any team in the league. 

 

Improvements are needed in those positions for sure, but the defense has gotten burned on crossing routes for years.  That's not scheme issue, IMO, its talent deficiency.

There’s also a reason for that.  Our offensive scheme is based on all deep routes and not quick passing.  Not to mention our receivers can’t get open.  TY is the most overrated receiver in the league and the first arguement is that he led the league in rushing but that’s because he’s has 5 great games and then 11 crappy games.  He’s the worst and he needs to be cut or traded.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

8 hours ago, ar7 said:

 

The more time has gone by the more I agree with this. Although, i'll be happy with any of the top defensive prospects in round 1 even if it is not Chubb.

 

I think most would agree that a big part of the current offensive line problems revolve around the scheme/play calling. There is not enough short passing. Also, the QB scrambling (whether Brissett or Luck) does not help the offensive line either. An offense based on quick passes will make even our current line look better. 

 

I certainly will not be mad if the Colts draft Nelson in round 1. I just think the line can be improved in free agency and with coaching. Assuming the Colts end up with a top pick in the draft I would rather use it on a top defensive player.

My only issue relying on FA is that it is a VERY weak class as it currently stands.  Last I checked there weren’t and known or well known offensive line players in free agency. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Most want to trade down and who cares where you take him if he is an elite talent the whole point is to pick game changers no matter what position 

 

I'd rather take an elite guard then reach for a player at a "elite" position that isn't very good 

 

The point is.....    guard is NOT a game changing position.       That's why they're not drafted high and most aren't paid nearly as much.

 

You care where you take him,  because teams that understand how to work the draft properly trade back in these kind of circumstances.      They trade back,  collect more pick(s) and then take the player they want anyway.     Win-win.

 

There IS such a thing as reaching for a player.     Drafting a guard in the top-5 is a HUGE over-reach.    Even Nelson.

 

[NewColtsFan]

57 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Who? No need for QB running backs in top 5 is stupid Chubb isn't that great for top 5 and looks like a 4-3 fit we took Hooker last year so no need for fitz 

 

I guess you didn't see the post from Lance Zeirlein and the video he showed along with his comment?

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

That is one heck of a chubby draft.  

The Law Offices of Chubb and Chubb!

[Colts_Fan12]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The point is.....    guard is NOT a game changing position.       That's why they're not drafted high and most aren't paid nearly as much.

 

You care where you take him,  because teams that understand how to work the draft properly trade back in these kind of circumstances.      They trade back,  collect more pick(s) and then take the player they want anyway.     Win-win.

 

There IS such a thing as reaching for a player.     Drafting a guard in the top-5 is a HUGE over-reach.    Even Nelson.

 

Taking an elite player is not a reach that's all there is to it like I said to the other guy id rather take the elite player then reach for one of you guys magical "elite" positions that are only worth a top pick 

 

Btw since you love what sports writers say Kiper and McShay both have him high I do believe 

[esmort]

53 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Who? No need for QB running backs in top 5 is stupid Chubb isn't that great for top 5 and looks like a 4-3 fit we took Hooker last year so no need for fitz 

 

Well we don't know for sure about QB yet, but even if we assume he's all good we have plenty of other needs. 

 

As it currently stands if we don't trade back I would take Chubb... and yes I would take Fitzpatrick before Nelson as well. 

 

I dont know how the big boards will look after the bowl games and draft, but I am sure there will be a few other better options move up I would take other than a guard.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Taking an elite player is not a reach that's all there is to it like I said to the other guy id rather take the elite player then reach for one of you guys magical "elite" positions that are only worth a top pick 

 

Btw since you love what sports writers say Kiper and McShay both have him high I do believe 

 

Yeah.....

 

I think Kiper has Nelson about 9....    and McShay has him at around 11 or so and being drafted around 15th.

 

By the way,   I don't agree with everything Mel and Todd say.    Not at all.     Currently,  Kiper's number one player is Barkley.     And yet Kiper has, for years now,  said that NO RUNNING back should be taken in the first round.   Ever!

 

So, how does Barkley belong as the top overall player?      That's a little bit contradictory to me....

 

I'm still waiting for the guys who do evaluations on NFL.com to start writing their stories.     I take all of them into consideration before reaching too many conclusions.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....

 

I think Kiper has Nelson about 9....    and McShay has him at around 11 or so and being drafted around 15th.

 

By the way,   I don't agree with everything Mel and Todd say.    Not at all.     Currently,  Kiper's number one player is Barkley.     And yet Kiper has, for years now,  said that NO RUNNING back should be taken in the first round.   Ever!

 

So, how does Barkley belong as the top overall player?      That's a little bit contradictory to me....

 

I'm still waiting for the guys who do evaluations on NFL.com to start writing their stories.     I take all of them into consideration before reaching too many conclusions.

 

Exactly so if we trade back with a team for a QB Nelson wouldn't be a reach so there is no issue like everyone thinks 

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Taking an elite player is not a reach that's all there is to it like I said to the other guy id rather take the elite player then reach for one of you guys magical "elite" positions that are only worth a top pick 

 

Btw since you love what sports writers say Kiper and McShay both have him high I do believe 

 

There are good reasons why players such as guards or inside linebackers are NOT often taken in the top-5 or even the top-10.      Because they don't have as much of an impact on the game.     Even the elite ones.   

 

I don't know why you'd want to mock the concept of elite position.     It's not something I made up.     It's been out there in draft discussions for years...   even decades....     it's not a new concept...

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....

 

I think Kiper has Nelson about 9....    and McShay has him at around 11 or so and being drafted around 15th.

 

By the way,   I don't agree with everything Mel and Todd say.    Not at all.     Currently,  Kiper's number one player is Barkley.     And yet Kiper has, for years now,  said that NO RUNNING back should be taken in the first round.   Ever!

 

So, how does Barkley belong as the top overall player?      That's a little bit contradictory to me....

 

I'm still waiting for the guys who do evaluations on NFL.com to start writing their stories.     I take all of them into consideration before reaching too many conclusions.

 

He feels like Barkley is a once in a generational RB is why and he may be?

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Exactly so if we trade back with a team for a QB Nelson wouldn't be a reach so there is no issue like everyone thinks 

 

Huh?

 

I've been saying trade back and take Nelson. 

 

You've been saying take Nelson at 3 because he's elite.     And now you're writing this?

 

I'm sorry,  but I'm confused.....

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He feels like Barkley is a once in a generational RB is why and he may be?

 

I understand he thinks that.....    but for a guy who insists every year that no RB should be drafted in the first round to have Barkley one overall just seems strange to me.

 

He also has Guice in the first round.      And he's now got Love in the first round,   and he may have one other,  but the name escapes me now.      

 

It sure feels like Kiper is talking out of both sides of his mouth....

 

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huh?

 

I've been saying trade back and take Nelson. 

 

You've been saying take Nelson at 3 because he's elite.     And now you're writing this?

 

I'm sorry,  but I'm confused.....

 

I said most want to trade back in the post that started all this I wanna lose out and trade with some dumb team that wants a QB and take Nelson but if we can't get any trade I will not be mad at Ballard if he takes Nelson at 3 cause he will keep our elite QB healthier and I'm tired of giving up nearly 50 sacks a year 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I understand he thinks that.....    but for a guy who insists every year that no RB should be drafted in the first round to have Barkley one overall just seems strange to me.

 

He also has Guice in the first round.      And he's now got Love in the first round,   and he may have one other,  but the name escapes me now.      

 

It sure feels like Kiper is talking out of both sides of his mouth....

 

Yeah he does do that . I really like Barkley as well but as the #1 pick, that is a stretch.

[jameszeigler834]

Saquan is a more dynamic threat than Marlon Mack but where it comes to the need standpoint and what the front office needs to do for this team to get better next year o-line has to be the pick here.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I said most want to trade back in the post that started all this I wanna lose out and trade with some dumb team that wants a QB and take Nelson but if we can't get any trade I will not be mad at Ballard if he takes Nelson at 3 cause he will keep our elite QB healthier and I'm tired of giving up nearly 50 sacks a year 

 

To be clear.....      I'm tired of all the same things you're tired of.     Really and truly,  I am.    Flat out exhausted.

 

But I'm confident that if Ballard loves Nelson and really wants him,   there will be a player that some team will still want to trade up to take --- perhaps that's Chubb.      And that will allow us to move back some and get a pick or two and still take Nelson.       I'd be fine with that.       I just want to maximize the benefits of a crappy season by getting what we can for a very high draft pick.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

To be clear.....      I'm tired of all the same things you're tired of.     Really and truly,  I am.    Flat out exhausted.

 

But I'm confident that if Ballard loves Nelson and really wants him,   there will be a player that some team will still want to trade up to take --- perhaps that's Chubb.      And that will allow us to move back some and get a pick or two and still take Nelson.       I'd be fine with that.       I just want to maximize the benefits of a crappy season by getting what we can for a very high draft pick.

 

If we lose out there may be a chance we can steal the 2nd pick too cause the giants can possibly win another. I'm not sure who gets the pick if we have the same record tho. If we somehow got that pick we could get a good haul and that would be nice.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If we lose out there may be a chance we can steal the 2nd pick too cause the giants can possibly win another. I'm not sure who gets the pick if we have the same record tho. If we somehow got that pick we could get a good haul and that would be nice.

 

I believe if we end up with the same record as the Giants,  then the Colts would pick 2nd and NY would go 3rd.    We have an easier SoS so we'd pick ahead of them.      I think that's how it goes.....

 

But as for picking 2nd overall,   I'm trying not to let myself think that far down the road.

 

And if we did get it,  the haul would go up dramatically because the player a team would be trading up for is a QB and taht gets a premium.     The next question would be....     how far back would we have to trade?     I don't want to trade back too far....      

 

We'll know much more in early January when draft orders are set....

 

[coltsfeva]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:58 AM, IinD said:

100 sacks allowed in two years. I think oline is a safe pick..lol

  I don’t think you can pin ALL of those sacks on the Oline. Both Brisset and Luck held it to the ball too long, in some instances. 

  I’m hoping for a pass rusher AND an Olineman or two, that can start.

  That’s assuming Luck is okay.

[Colts_Fan12]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I believe if we end up with the same record as the Giants,  then the Colts would pick 2nd and NY would go 3rd.    We have an easier SoS so we'd pick ahead of them.      I think that's how it goes.....

 

But as for picking 2nd overall,   I'm trying not to let myself think that far down the road.

 

And if we did get it,  the haul would go up dramatically because the player a team would be trading up for is a QB and taht gets a premium.     The next question would be....     how far back would we have to trade?     I don't want to trade back too far....      

 

We'll know much more in early January when draft orders are set....

 

The good thing is I don't think it would be very far still would be top 10 I think it would be great 

[colt18]

Definitely trade down and try to get Nelson. I'm hoping we can land an OL and Guice in first couple rounds, that would be SICK

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would love it if we drafted Nelson. Watching him and Kelly play on the Line together would be fun. Like Colts12 said earlier I am sick of seeing 50 sacks a year and Luck getting killed.

[a06cc]

Ballard will take the best player available. He will study body of work on each player. How their motors run in the 4th quarter of close game. I’d advise everyone to watch full games of a guy they like before coming to a conclusion. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

What if it's Barkley?

[IinD]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What if it's Barkley?

In all honesty, speaking personally, that would be terrible.

 

I'm sure some will disagree, but we can't block for any RB at this point.

 

How many times have you seen Mack or Gore dodge a guy as soon as they get the ball?

 

Just for conversation sake let's look at two RBs folks were clamoring for last year, the Mixon kid in cincy (500 yds) and the Mcafferry kid in Carolina (319 rush yds), neither is doing much.

 

How would that Penn State rb help us if he gets say 500 yards? Not much I'd guess. But put a competent line in front of most RB's and I'd bet they can get you 500 yards in a season.

 

If by chance they did draft him, he'd better be Edgerrin James or Adrian Peterson. Not just some rb who will get us 300-700 yds a year. At #3, he better be getting us 1100-1400 yards yearly.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

In all honesty, speaking personally, that would be terrible.

 

I'm sure some will disagree, but we can't block for any RB at this point.

 

How many times have you seen Mack or Gore dodge a guy as soon as they get the ball?

 

Just for conversation sake let's look at two RBs folks were clamoring for last year, the Mixon kid in cincy (500 yds) and the Mcafferry kid in Carolina (319 rush yds), neither is doing much.

 

How would that Penn State rb help us if he gets say 500 yards? Not much I'd guess. But put a competent line in front of most RB's and I'd bet they can get you 500 yards in a season.

 

If by chance they did draft him, he'd better be Edgerrin James or Adrian Peterson. Not just some rb who will get us 300-700 yds a year. At #3, he better be getting us 1100-1400 yards yearly.

I am for drafting O.Line and Pass Rushers actually but in all fairness I think Barkley is on a different level compared to Mixon and McCaffrey. Most will remember I wanted Hunt last year. If we Draft Nelson I will be happy but some here think it's silly to take a Guard at #3. Whoever Ballard chooses, I see a lot of  people still not being happy.

[Aluckiswolverine]

All of the rookies RB who have made an impact this year have one thing in common. Solid O-lines, why is this so hard to see.  Our line sucks.

 

Also every year there is a new flashy RB on another level. A lot of the things being said of Saquon were said of fournette, Mcaffrey and Dalvin Cook. 

[IinD]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am for drafting O.Line and Pass Rushers actually but in all fairness I think Barkley is on a different level compared to Mixon and McCaffrey. Most will remember I wanted Hunt last year. If we Draft Nelson I will be happy but some here think it's silly to take a Guard at #3. Whoever Ballard chooses, I see a lot of  people still not being happy.

And you'd have been correct with the Hunt pick. It also proves you can find a rb anywhere in the draft.

 

Kelly was supposedly a reach, imagine we didn't have him? We'd essentially need every position on the oline. Because of that safe pick, C is no longer needed.

 

For me, at #3 you better be an instant really good starter. Regardless of position honestly.

 

People always talk 'value' about draft picks, but screw that, if you get an instant good starter, who cares what position it is.

 

I think if Ballard gets the oline help through FA, then you can draft the RB, but let's say he goes strictly D in FA, then I'd take an OL at 3 and get that RB in Rd 2-3-4.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

All of the rookies RB who have made an impact this year have one thing in common. Solid O-lines, why is this so hard to see.  Our line sucks.

 

Also every year there is a new flashy RB on another level. A lot of the things being said of Saquon were said of fournette, Mcaffrey and Dalvin Cook. 

I think we should draft O.Line and top heavy it even for depth. Championships are won up front so I am for that. I do think Barkley will be better than any RB that came out last year though. I nailed it on saying Hunt was the real deal and I really was never big on Mcaffrey, Cook, or Mixon. I was even mixed on Fournette and thought he was overrated.

[IinD]

12 minutes ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

All of the rookies RB who have made an impact this year have one thing in common. Solid O-lines, why is this so hard to see.  Our line sucks.

 

Also every year there is a new flashy RB on another level. A lot of the things being said of Saquon were said of fournette, Mcaffrey and Dalvin Cook. 

I agree with this.

 

We HAVE to fix this line. Can't keep getting Luck killed. RB can be found anywhere in the draft.

 

Gore is a tough dude, if we had someone like Addai back there, he'd have 4-500 tops this season. They can't pass or run block. That's a big problem here in Indy.

[ClaytonColt]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love it if we drafted Nelson. Watching him and Kelly play on the Line together would be fun. Like Colts12 said earlier I am sick of seeing 50 sacks a year and Luck getting killed.

If the problems on the o-line were 100% talent related then i would be more inclined to agree. We'd have the highest drafted guard/center combinations ever but that wouldn't stop the free rushers getting home, players not progressing into a coherent unit and a lack of awareness about where pressure is coming from which all contribute more than talent to the ridiculous sack total.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Bottomline is we need O.Lineman and badly. The heck with these 50 sacks a year stuff. I am just throwing out the Barkley stuff because IMO he is going to be Great.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Knowing our luck we will pass on Barkley and he will go a pick or 2 after we pick and he will gain 1500 Yards and look like Barry Sanders  

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....

 

I think Kiper has Nelson about 9....    and McShay has him at around 11 or so and being drafted around 15th.

 

By the way,   I don't agree with everything Mel and Todd say.    Not at all.     Currently,  Kiper's number one player is Barkley.     And yet Kiper has, for years now,  said that NO RUNNING back should be taken in the first round.   Ever!

 

So, how does Barkley belong as the top overall player?      That's a little bit contradictory to me....

 

I'm still waiting for the guys who do evaluations on NFL.com to start writing their stories.     I take all of them into consideration before reaching too many conclusions.

 

Does kiper have Barkley as #1 player (talent wise) or #1 player (draft eise)?

i imagine its talent wise.  But as we know, and some are pointing out about Nelsons "rating", being the best player, doesnt mean you'll go #1 for many reasons including position.  BPA is relative.  

#1 "player" in the draft doesnt mean (necessarily) #1 selected.