Ongoing Colts 2018 draft talk........

[GoColts8818]

46 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

I agree especially with the bolded.  I believe that wide receiver and running back will also need addressing particularly if Gore and Moncrief aren't wearing the Shoe next year.

I saw one mock that had us take Chubb to rush the passer in round one and the running back Chubb in the 2nd.

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

If we lose to Houston (I'm figuring Balt is a sure loss ) there a decent chance we could finish at #2. The Giants are playing better and could beat Az or Washington , both have nothing to play for. Strength of schedule would put us at 2. As to QB needy teams , you need to add AZ and Buffalo to your list. Is Cinn. sold on Dalton ? Plus there are some very talented QB's that could have a monster pro day and maybe one of them could join Rosen and Darnold at the top. On the flip side of that , it's  possible Darnold doesn't come out. Unlikely but word is he's considering it.

we could turn out to be a qb needy team

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I hope not.  A team cannot do as much with the 6th pick as they could with the 3rd.  

I hate to root against the Colts, but I do hope they continue losing.  

At this point in the season with a losing season guaranteed, no chance of playoffs, and a roster full of holes, I think there’s a bunch of fans who root for their team to lose.

[a06cc]

Not to sure about Chubb. We need an impact player. He doesn’t have get coverage skills. Tends to be manhandle by bigger tackles which the NFL is loaded with. 

[jskinnz]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

for me, its easy at this point.  Nelson or Chubb.  Both are top players at their position and both should be available at 3.  I'm leaning Nelson but wouldnt be upset with Chubb. 

 

In the last 10 years there have only been approx 15 guards taken in the first round with the highest being taken at # 7 in 2013.  Just have a real hard time seeing a guard taken that high, even with the Colts o-line issues.  If O'line is the direction they want to go, tackle is the better pick.

[ThorstenDenmark]

It depends on who will be the next head coach for this team.

 

Either its going to be a defensive coach or a more offensive minded coach.

 

If defence we take chubb if off its saquan barkley the RB

 

i just hope we take a player who becomes a great colt and not another bust.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

we could turn out to be a qb needy team

 

Don't even think that. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

In the last 10 years there have only been approx 15 guards taken in the first round with the highest being taken at # 7 in 2013.  Just have a real hard time seeing a guard taken that high, even with the Colts o-line issues.  If O'line is the direction they want to go, tackle is the better pick.

We need OL help all along the line. I hate to quote the Blindside movie,  but here it goes

 

 

first check you write is for the mortage(insert franchise QB here), second check is for the insurance(insert OL here) . 

 

Normally im a best player available type of person in the draft. This go around there's two players, both about the same grade level, both are in positions of need, Nelson/Chubb. I feel that as of now, our larger hole is on the OL, so I'd go Nelson.

 

that said, if we get some above average OL players in FA, I'd go away from that view point or if someone else jumps out at the combine or in the bowl games. 

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

We need OL help all along the line. I hate to quote the Blindside movie,  but here it goes

 

 

first check you write is for the mortage(insert franchise QB here), second check is for the insurance(insert OL here) . 

 

Normally im a best player available type of person in the draft. This go around there's two players, both about the same grade level, both are in positions of need, Nelson/Chubb. I feel that as of now, our larger hole is on the OL, so I'd go Nelson.

 

that said, if we get some above average OL players in FA, I'd go away from that view point or if someone else jumps out at the combine or in the bowl games. 

 

Why did everyone know that except for Grigson?  Never mind, I’ve moved on from that nightmare.  He can help ruin the Browns now.

 

I agree with Nelson.  Build the Oline first.  Keeping the offense on the field automatically improves the defense.  It’s passable now, if the offense puts up the points again.  

[Dark Superman]

I like Nelson and Connor Williams.

Maybe the Colts can snag Norwell in FA and then draft either Nelson or Williams?

 

[OffensivelyPC]

15 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'd prefer to trade down twice and take the ILB from Georgia around pick 20.  He'd have more impact on our team than a G would or an overweight (for a 34) DE in Chubb.

 

Hopefully Barkley or one of the WR kills it at the combine and some team wants them bad enough.

Without a pass rush, no LIB will have the impact you're hoping for.

[OffensivelyPC]

12 hours ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

It depends on who will be the next head coach for this team.

 

Either its going to be a defensive coach or a more offensive minded coach.

 

If defence we take chubb if off its saquan barkley the RB

 

i just hope we take a player who becomes a great colt and not another bust.

You pick the best player, not draft based on who or what your coach is.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Without an Offensive Line, Luck wont last. I am not sure we shouldn't take an O.Lineman with the 3rd pick.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Without a pass rush, no LIB will have the impact you're hoping for.

I'm not sure Chubb is the guy for that in this defense.  He's young and already 275 pounds.

 

Maybe a new coach will switch to a traditional 43 and then Chubb makes sense as the DE.  And Smith would make sense as the Will, if he was around at pick #3 of the second round.

[OffensivelyPC]

13 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I saw one mock that had us take Chubb to rush the passer in round one and the running back Chubb in the 2nd.

I wouldn't hate that haul. We have so many needs though, I think we will be a little disappointed no matter the haul.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I'm not sure Chubb is the guy for that in this defense.  He's young and already 275 pounds.

 

Maybe a new coach will switch to a traditional 43 and then Chubb makes sense as the DE.  And Jones would make sense as the Will, if he was around at pick #3 of the second round.

Im not against drafting ILB - we need one. We have holes all over the place. Grigs really poo poo'd on this roster.

[NewEra]

Nelson, he comes in as a rookie better than most of the NFL. Perineal pro bowler

[JMichael557]

The draft is built so that if you have a high pick you can take a player at a premium position and have that player at a price that is less than the cost once the rookie contract ends. If you pick 2 or 3 you have to look at the most expensive positions. Pass Rusher, Corner, OT, QB, RB.   

 

That being said if we have to pick at 2 or 3 it has to be Barkley. 

 

If we pick beyond 2 or 3 then I would say Conner or Nelson based upon present information, 

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Im not against drafting ILB - we need one. We have holes all over the place. Grigs really poo poo'd on this roster.

I also think Pagano over coaches the defense.  It tries to do too many things. Dungy played the same D every down, almost.  Pagano has a 34, a 43, press man, zone coverage, zone blitzes. 

 

It's a nightmare for a GM to fill all of those roles with good players.  It works if you have players on defense like Baltimore did....but then you can only afford a Dilfer led offense,,,IOW, not a $100million QB.

 

[Coltsfanforlife12]

18 hours ago, dgambill said:

OL was horrible when Manning was here the last several years....he just knew how to get rid of the ball fast and we ran an offense that allowed him to check at the line and audible and get into favorable plays. The concepts we are running and how long we are holding the ball...it isn't all the OL....but I certainly wouldn't be upset to upgrade it....just would like to trade back if we are going that route.

The offense was designed to get rid of the ball fast... our current offense isn’t...

[Coltsfanforlife12]

16 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'd prefer to trade down twice and take the ILB from Georgia around pick 20.  He'd have more impact on our team than a G would or an overweight (for a 34) DE in Chubb.

 

Hopefully Barkley or one of the WR kills it at the combine and some team wants them bad enough.

Inside linebacker while a need is nowhere near the need of pass rusher and oline.  We are all talking hypothetical situations right now but it’s really pointless because FA could change everything.  

[Coltsfanforlife12]

25 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

The draft is built so that if you have a high pick you can take a player at a premium position and have that player at a price that is less than the cost once the rookie contract ends. If you pick 2 or 3 you have to look at the most expensive positions. Pass Rusher, Corner, OT, QB, RB.   

 

That being said if we have to pick at 2 or 3 it has to be Barkley. 

 

If we pick beyond 2 or 3 then I would say Conner or Nelson based upon present information, 

I’ve seen multiple people ask this question but why pick a running back when we don’t have an offensive line.  Yes he’s shifty but not that shifty.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

Inside linebacker while a need is nowhere near the need of pass rusher and oline.  We are all talking hypothetical situations right now but it’s really pointless because FA could change everything.  

Pass rushers get gassed in the pass happy NFL these days.  Its becoming a rotational position, IMO.  Its tough to truly judge the Oline since our QBs hold the ball the longest of just about any team in the league. 

 

Improvements are needed in those positions for sure, but the defense has gotten burned on crossing routes for years.  That's not scheme issue, IMO, its talent deficiency.

[aReggie7]

14 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am leaning Chubb and investing heavily in Oline in free agency 

 

The more time has gone by the more I agree with this. Although, i'll be happy with any of the top defensive prospects in round 1 even if it is not Chubb.

 

I think most would agree that a big part of the current offensive line problems revolve around the scheme/play calling. There is not enough short passing. Also, the QB scrambling (whether Brissett or Luck) does not help the offensive line either. An offense based on quick passes will make even our current line look better. 

 

I certainly will not be mad if the Colts draft Nelson in round 1. I just think the line can be improved in free agency and with coaching. Assuming the Colts end up with a top pick in the draft I would rather use it on a top defensive player.

[Defjamz26]

30 minutes ago, ar7 said:

 

The more time has gone by the more I agree with this. Although, i'll be happy with any of the top defensive prospects in round 1 even if it is not Chubb.

 

I think most would agree that a big part of the current offensive line problems revolve around the scheme/play calling. There is not enough short passing. Also, the QB scrambling (whether Brissett or Luck) does not help the offensive line either. An offense based on quick passes will make even our current line look better. 

 

I certainly will not be mad if the Colts draft Nelson in round 1. I just think the line can be improved in free agency and with coaching. Assuming the Colts end up with a top pick in the draft I would rather use it on a top defensive player.

Eventually though, lack of talent gets exposed. The Colts can’t keep starting Vujnovich and Haeg and expect it not to catch up with them, even in an offensive scheme with quicker passing. Eventually you’re gonna want a 5-7 step drop back, and if you don’t have better line play, it’s going to end disastrously.

[rockywoj]

1 hour ago, Coltsfanforlife12 said:

The offense was designed to get rid of the ball fast... our current offense isn’t...

And given our OL woes, that is the ultimate fail on our OC & HC.  Just brutal that the staff has not adopted the scheme to be commensurate with the players we have.

[SLILLINGTON10]

I think Kirk Cousins could shape the draft depending on where he chooses to sign.

[rockywoj]

Priority of need:

 

1. OL (OGs, ROT)

2. ILBs

3. DBs (CB & S) ... kind of almost a tie with ...

4. An impact pass rusher that is feared

5. WR (pretty pathetic that this has become a position of need)

6. RB (I’d seriously consider re-signing Gore)

 

i have assumed a healthy Luck.

[aaron11]

we have a lot of money to spend.  that should go towards oline in free agency, over pay if we have to, i mean why not?  we might be able to find some linebackers there too

 

right now i would have the team  looking into chubb.  is he a good fit for this defense, or could we switch to a 4-3?  most of the guys we have now could make the switch over, the biggest question that matters is could sheard do it?

[throwing BBZ]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Pass rushers get gassed in the pass happy NFL these days.  Its becoming a rotational position, IMO.  Its tough to truly judge the Oline since our QBs hold the ball the longest of just about any team in the league. 

 

Improvements are needed in those positions for sure, but the defense has gotten burned on crossing routes for years.  That's not scheme issue, IMO, its talent deficiency.

 

Here let me make it easy.
We have tall thin guards that are poor at run blocking. FIRE them NOW.

If you can't run well between the guards, defenses can over play the outsides
So, if they don't fear your run game, Guess What, they don't respect Play Action.

Well then, it all goes down hill from there.

NEXT
Our QB gets almost immediately flushed constantly.  Yip, FIRE those guards and RT MUST GET FIXED.
 

Play calling?  Of course 2 and 3 step drops are great.
You think Doyle can get open that fast regularly in man to man coverage?  Be honest. If you don't hold on to the ball he is gonna get you 6-7 yards most often. In 3rd and 8+ he is IFFY. I like Jack, he just has limitations.
 Moncrief just isn't a quick slant, hands catcher. So FIRE him.

 

Hilton. If he can't beat you with speed...
He gets roughly 40% of his yards each season from 4 games.

And absolutely this season is bad, but he has about 60% of his yards in 3 games, Cleve, SF, Houston,

and 3 of his 4 td's.   UGH
And yes he can get a couple quick hit catches a game. And he breaks one now and then.
 But he is NOTHING like Marvin at beating guys at the line and bursting into a quick slant or an out.
 Follow the int's on his such routes.
 He doesn't have the quick cut ability. How often in his CAREER have you seen him make a sudden stop and cutback to make a guy miss him? He doesn't do it because his feet slide out from under him most every time.  Yes he gets lots of yards because LUCKY holds onto the ball a few hundred ?  times a season looking for him to get open downfield. Sorry, i would take a more complete player before him to build a passing game.
 

  JMO that it begins with 2 good guards and the ANSWER at RT.

  Then, equal parts better receivers and play caller. Not asking much. 

 

 

[ClaytonColt]

Nelson looks a fine player but there's no way we can consider a guard at 3 over a potential defensive game wrecker like Chubb.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Here let me make it easy.
We have tall thin guards that are poor at run blocking. FIRE them NOW.

If you can't run well between the guards, defenses can over play the outsides
So, if they don't fear your run game, Guess What, they don't respect Play Action.

Well then, it all goes down hill from there.

NEXT
Our QB gets almost immediately flushed constantly.  Yip, FIRE those guards and RT MUST GET FIXED.
 

Play calling?  Of course 2 and 3 step drops are great.
You think Doyle can get open that fast regularly in man to man coverage?  Be honest. If you don't hold on to the ball he is gonna get you 6-7 yards most often. In 3rd and 8+ he is IFFY. I like Jack, he just has limitations.
 Moncrief just isn't a quick slant, hands catcher. So FIRE him.

 

Hilton. If he can't beat you with speed...
He gets roughly 40% of his yards each season from 4 games.

And absolutely this season is bad, but he has about 60% of his yards in 3 games, Cleve, SF, Houston,

and 3 of his 4 td's.   UGH
And yes he can get a couple quick hit catches a game. And he breaks one now and then.
 But he is NOTHING like Marvin at beating guys at the line and bursting into a quick slant or an out.
 Follow the int's on his such routes.
 He doesn't have the quick cut ability. How often in his CAREER have you seen him make a sudden stop and cutback to make a guy miss him? He doesn't do it because his feet slide out from under him most every time.  Yes he gets lots of yards because LUCKY holds onto the ball a few hundred ?  times a season looking for him to get open downfield. Sorry, i would take a more complete player before him to build a passing game.
 

  JMO that it begins with 2 good guards and the ANSWER at RT.

  Then, equal parts better receivers and play caller. Not asking much. 

 

 

You've made a case for getting Gs that are more standard sized.  I agree.  Its one reason why I never really warmed up to Mewhort at 6.5 or 6.6 and 310 at G.  No leverage.  I always thought he should beef up a bit and play RT, but I guess that didn't work.

 

You've made a case for investing a lot of money or a high draft pick for a real #2 WR, one who might even be able to displace TY at #1.  I agree.  Which is why I supported the Dorset selection at the time, which didn't work out of course

 

Its not Doyle.  No TE is going to get open that quickly unless he can get through the DL untouched.  It should be a dump off position which, by definition, takes a while for the QB to go through the progressions, or where he quickly gets rid of the ball when pressure is detected.  The positions that should get open with 2 or 3 step drops are the slants and bubbles to the WRs and flat passes to the RB.  Patriots. 

 

Dominate OLs aren't needed with a quick paced offense.  Pass rushers have no time to circle the OT.  They just get gassed trying to do so repeatedly, rendering the "elite" pass rusher useless and making them a dying breed.

 

[chad72]

18 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I saw one mock that had us take Chubb to rush the passer in round one and the running back Chubb in the 2nd.

 

That is one heck of a chubby draft.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

You pick the best player, not draft based on who or what your coach is.

 

Not everybody sees the best player as the same.

 

With 32 teams you have 32 different Big Boards of priority.     No two boards look the same.

 

You could rate most any player different than another team based on who your coach is and the type of system that the team runs....

 

[Scott Pennock]

Let me preface this pick with two big free agent signings:

 

OG Jonathan Cooper - Dallas (plus resigning Mewhort)

Edge Ezekial Ansah - Detroit (plus resigning Mingo)

 

With our 1st Round Draft Pick:

 

Saquan Barkley - RB - Penn State

 

Then we pick at the top of every round and pick the best coverage ILB possible in the 2nd.

 

Beyond that, bpa....

[NewColtsFan]

 

If Ballard loves Nelson and wants him --- I'm fine with that.

 

Just not at 3rd overall, where we will likely pick.      And frankly,  not in the top-5.     Not a guard.

 

So, I'd be perfectly fine trading down a bit --- say between 5-10 --- and then taking Nelson.     I think that would be a win.

 

And someone will want to trade up to take Chubb,  or Barkley,  or someone else.     Some team will want to move up.   We may not get an unbelievable haul,  we may have to lower our asking price a bit....   but I'd rather trade back and get a 1, 2 and a 4 then not do a deal at all.      

 

Trade back,  collects draft picks,  and still get the guy you want overall.     That's the way it's done.  

 

 

[Luck 4 president]

If we get the #2 pick we can trade for a Kings ransom. There are 3-4 teams in the top 10 that need a QB and will want to trade with us to leapfrog the Giants who will take a QB at 3. Based off of trade charts and the extra demand for a QB between these other teams it is very possible to trade our #2 pick for a 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and a 2019 1st while staying in the top 10. Then hopefully we can pull a Boston Celtics and that future 1st becomes a top 5 pick. 

If we stay at 3 then this won’t be possible because the teams at 4-7 aren’t going to take a QB so our pick is less valuable to the teams at 8,9,10. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

just hope we can get a player who can start on day one, not many draft picks can

[aReggie7]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Eventually though, lack of talent gets exposed. The Colts can’t keep starting Vujnovich and Haeg and expect it not to catch up with them, even in an offensive scheme with quicker passing. Eventually you’re gonna want a 5-7 step drop back, and if you don’t have better line play, it’s going to end disastrously.

 

I don't disagree that the lack of talent will get exposed at some point. Coaching will not address all of the issues. I just think that the Colts can use free agency to improve the offensive line. Plus, i'd rather have a top defensive prospect than a top guard.

[rockywoj]

If that top Guard turns in John Hannah, I will gladly take the Luck insurance.