Basham Deserves Some Praise

[GoColts8818]

Three tackles two of which are sacks for the season. Better than nothing but not worth singing his praises over.  

[throwing BBZ]

I'm gonna stick my neck out for some choppin here and say did you notice D Good was looking quite trim.
I'm talking about no belly.

Year one at 340

two at 355

three at 345      but i would say he is down 10+ and has been working hard to muscle up and lean out.

 It would be a major deal if he can improve his quickness to handle the speedier rushers.

 I am rooting for him to be all he can be. Go Denzelle   
 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Pagano has no problem with rookies.     He has starteded a number of them in his time.

 

But he hasn't been given many.      That's why Grigson is out of a job.

 

But when given talented rookies,   Pagano plays them.

 

Hooker, Hairston,  Kelly,  Haeg,  Anderson,  Geathers and Parry,  just to name some.

 

 

Hooker did not start his first game. Pagano started Butler over him and only started Hooker when Butler was hurt. I could also make an argument if Hooker hadn't had 3 consecutive games with an INT, that he would of been benched after Butler returned. I also don't remember 100%, but I don't believe Hairston started immediately either. Maybe he did in the slot.

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Pagano has no problem with rookies.     He has starteded a number of them in his time.

 

But he hasn't been given many.      That's why Grigson is out of a job.

 

But when given talented rookies,   Pagano plays them.

 

Hooker, Hairston,  Kelly,  Haeg,  Anderson,  Geathers and Parry,  just to name some.

 

 

Most due to injury though. Anderson started because of an injury to Art Jones. Geathers played behind Dwight Lowery for awhile. 

 

Me personally, I don’t look for just starts. I look at snaps. That’s where he usually has issues. Not giving more snaps to rookies when they perform, to the point where they’re showing more promise than the veteran in front of them but not getting an equal amount of snaps. Just this year Pagano has terribly mishandled Quincy Wilson and Marlon Mack. Not saying they should be starters but they weren’t rewarded with more snaps after great performances.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Hooker did not start his first game. Pagano started Butler over him and only started Hooker when Butler was hurt. I could also make an argument if Hooker hadn't had 3 consecutive games with an INT, that he would of been benched after Butler returned. I also don't remember 100%, but I don't believe Hairston started immediately either. Maybe he did in the slot.

 

Here we go with the Pagano HATE.     And that's what this post is.....  100% pure hate.

 

Pagano LOVED Hooker.     Remember the phone call on draft night....    Pagano saying he was a top-5 player and was going to be the Colts Ed Reed?      Remember?     

 

The only reason Hooker didn't start from Day 1 is because he wasn't physically ready.     It had nothing to do with Pagano not liking rookies.     The idea with Butler was always to have him be the nickle back.    The third safety.    Hooker was dialed in start from the day he was drafted,   but his rehab went slow.     He wasn't ready to play 65 snaps.

 

I don't where you get this stuff or why you want let little things like this go?   

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Most due to injury though. Anderson started because of an injury to Art Jones. Geathers played behind Dwight Lowery for awhile. 

 

Me personally, I don’t look for just starts. I look at snaps. That’s where he usually has issues. Not giving more snaps to rookies when they perform, to the point where they’re showing more promise than the veteran in front of them but not getting an equal amount of snaps. Just this year Pagano has terribly mishandled Quincy Wilson and Marlon Mack. Not saying they should be starters but they weren’t rewarded with more snaps after great performances.

 

Do you even realize we had this conversation a week or two ago?     Seriously.     You made the same claim and I made NOT ONE,  but TWO posts to show how wrong you were, and I thought you acknowledged it then.    But perhaps that was just lip service to change the subject.

 

But If you're going to be spectacularly wrong in various threads like this and refuse to eat your vegetables,  then I'll be happy to spell out just how wrong you are.....

 

Anderson starting had nothig to do with Art Jones.     Both started from the season opener.    Henry didn't start because Jones was hurt.     He started because he earned it.     And so did Jones,  who suffered a high ankle sparing in week 2 on a Monday night game that we lost to Philly.      Jones started 3 games out of the 9 that he played,   but that was including weeks 1 and 2.

 

And Pagano has handled Wilson and Mack perfectly.     Do you see Ballard doing anything about it?     You think he'd let Pagano screw up his draft picks?    Hardly.    Wilson didn't play because he's young (Pags called him the youngest player in the draft and Monachino called him immature and he doesn't know how to practice and prepare.)   

 

Here is the recent article about Wilson and what the coaches have said about him.    Oh,  and let's scratch off another bogie-man here....    there's not a word about Special Teams in the article.   That's another false assertion made famous by the uninformed on this website.    Posters here have turned a passing comment, an example into the entire reason why Wilson doesn't play.     It's 100% false.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/22232/second-round-pick-quincy-wilsons-inactivity-has-been-one-of-colts-biggest-mysteries

 

Monachino clearly says they love Wilson and they know he can play.   That he played well in the Rams game.    But he doesn't know how to practice or prepare.     Imagine how bad he has to be between Monday and Friday for him NOT TO BE PLAYING?!?    Monachino clearly says other players, less talented players are outworking Wilson.    And when he learns how to prepare properly, he will play.     Wilson has to grow-up.   They're not going to let him start when other, lesser players,  are clearly outworking and out preparing the kid.   They're trying to teach him lessons.    

 

As for Mack,  in case you haven't noticed,  he's not doing very well.     Why?     Because, for right now, he's got limited game.      He doesn't know how to run well between the tackles and doesn't know how to pass block.    Some of the games he didn't play at all in the middle of the season were due to the fact that he was hurt and couldn't play.

But when Mack is playing,  he's not doing much and Gore is out-producing him.    Mack is a one trick pony.   He runs outside well.    He can break off good runs.     But there's more to being a good RB than that.

 

Finally.....    I'll slam dunk this entire notion of yours about Pags and rookies.     I did it before,  I'll do it again.

 

If Pags is so bad with rookies,   who is the player who left Indy and went elsewhere and turned out to be a really good player for another team?       I'll wait.     Who is that player?      If these players are so good and Pags is so terrible,  they must have gone elsewhere and done really well.      Who is that player?      

 

I don't think you're going to find a single one.

 

[crazycolt1]

12 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agreed, he's getting the rookie treatment and hasn't got a real chance to do anything. Also, Werner was a 1st round pick, Basham is a 3rd rounder playing much less time in his rookie year. He's at least showing flashes. Hopefully he'll get more snaps as well as the rest of the rookie class once Pagano is gone. Right now, I'm being very lenient on this entire draft class until Pagano leaves and there is an unbiased opinion on these players by the coaching staff.

This ambushing every thread with your Pagano hate has become an epidemic for you.

 You are so obsessed with Pagano you now hi jack and derail every thread you enter.

You have become a one trick pony with your never ending whine fest.

[Coltfreak]

I can't wait until Pagano is fired....  in fact I hope someone has already turned the light off in his office....  it will be more enjoyable around here not listening to the Pagano apologists that are ruining all these threads with their yappin and making things up to try to fit their point but can't defend honest questions....

 

''hopefully they move on with Pagano 

[LockeDown]

13 hours ago, krunk said:

I think eventually he's going to be able to overpower some guys.  Sort of like Justin Houston or maybe Suggs.  Of course I'm not calling him Suggs, but he's got a similar frame to both of them. Just add on more muscle.

Not really.  The best players USUALLY go to big schools.  That is why they normally do well.  When a talented player goes to a smaller school, he doesn't have a harder time making it in the NFL.  The list is very big.  The reality is that the more talented players usually get recruited to the bigger schools. 

[Yoshinator]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This ambushing every thread with your Pagano hate has become an epidemic for you.

 You are so obsessed with Pagano you now hi jack and derail every thread you enter.

You have become a one trick pony with your never ending whine fest.

I've only been posting a couple times a day. You literally post 50+ times a day just defending Pagano by itself. I'd say you are more obsessed with defending him than me trashing him. Also, Pagano isn't worth hating as I know he'll be gone in a month. You're the one squirming because you realize it's true. You already can't use the "no losing season" excuse anymore. It's just a shame his incompetence is affecting the young players so poorly.

[Yoshinator]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here we go with the Pagano HATE.     And that's what this post is.....  100% pure hate.

 

Pagano LOVED Hooker.     Remember the phone call on draft night....    Pagano saying he was a top-5 player and was going to be the Colts Ed Reed?      Remember?     

 

The only reason Hooker didn't start from Day 1 is because he wasn't physically ready.     It had nothing to do with Pagano not liking rookies.     The idea with Butler was always to have him be the nickle back.    The third safety.    Hooker was dialed in start from the day he was drafted,   but his rehab went slow.     He wasn't ready to play 65 snaps.

 

I don't where you get this stuff or why you want let little things like this go?   

 

 

The bottom line is that when Butler went down, Hooker became the starter. You think otherwise? Show me proof Pagano was going to start him over Butler in week 2 if Butler was healthy. He got his chance because of an injury and ran with it, just like most of the rookies have to try to do on the team. 

[crazycolt1]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I've only been posting a couple times a day. You literally post 50+ times a day just defending Pagano by itself. I'd say you are more obsessed with defending him than me trashing him. Also, Pagano isn't worth hating as I know he'll be gone in a month. You're the one squirming because you realize it's true. You already can't use the "no losing season" excuse anymore. It's just a shame his incompetence is affecting the young players so poorly.

You used to bring a lot more to this forum besides the constant whine about Pagano. It's a shame you have turned your back on bringing those things in.

I am not squirming at all about Pagano. If he gets fired that's life in the NFL. I been around long enough to see a railroad job when I see one. Pagano was set up to be the scapegoat from day one this season.

I am sure being fired by the Colts is small potatoes compared to what he has been through. No matter what happens I will always say Pagano is a good coach but circumstances out of his control was the cause of his undoing.

So Pagano has his first losing season. So what? Name me one head coach in the league who has not had a losing season.

Oh by the way, our young players are coming along just fine all things considered. The defense has improved and would be a lot more improved had injuries not slowed it down. We still are in dire need of offensive linemen and that causes a chain reaction of bad offense.

 

 

[Yoshinator]

39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You used to bring a lot more to this forum besides the constant whine about Pagano. It's a shame you have turned your back on bringing those things in.

I am not squirming at all about Pagano. If he gets fired that's life in the NFL. I been around long enough to see a railroad job when I see one. Pagano was set up to be the scapegoat from day one this season.

I am sure being fired by the Colts is small potatoes compared to what he has been through. No matter what happens I will always say Pagano is a good coach but circumstances out of his control was the cause of his undoing.

So Pagano has his first losing season. So what? Name me one head coach in the league who has not had a losing season.

Oh by the way, our young players are coming along just fine all things considered. The defense has improved and would be a lot more improved had injuries not slowed it down. We still are in dire need of offensive linemen and that causes a chain reaction of bad offense.

 

 

What can I say? It's been a tough 3 years, we've had consistent poor drafting and the team has reflected that recently. Combined with Luck's injuries and the expectation we'd be possible SB contenders by now, things haven't been a lot of fun. I try to look toward the positives with the young players, but it's hard when they don't get a lot of playing time. It's also hard when every game is the same story. I'm probably spoiled by Peyton, but it's been a depressing few years watching NFL, and we have to rebuild the team while Luck is in his 6th and soon to be 7th year and we still don't know his true condition. I admire you look for the positive in things, but it's really hard when the fans try to be loyal but are in such a helpless state. A forum is also a place to vent right now as well as talk Colts. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

What can I say? It's been a tough 3 years, we've had consistent poor drafting and the team has reflected that recently. Combined with Luck's injuries and the expectation we'd be possible SB contenders by now, things haven't been a lot of fun. I try to look toward the positives with the young players, but it's hard when they don't get a lot of playing time. It's also hard when every game is the same story. I'm probably spoiled by Peyton, but it's been a depressing few years watching NFL, and we have to rebuild the team while Luck is in his 6th and soon to be 7th year and we still don't know his true condition. I admire you look for the positive in things, but it's really hard when the fans try to be loyal but are in such a helpless state. A forum is also a place to vent right now as well as talk Colts. 

I understand completely about being negative because of our record over the last three seasons. The thing is we have no control over none of this. Getting all worked up over something you have no control over is not good for your mental physic. The NFL is just a game played by over paid grownups. Every team in the NFL has it's ups and downs. It is designed that way. As long time Colts fan we have seen both the top and bottom the good and the bad.

In reality we have no clue firing Pagano is the answer. IMO with the roster we have this season there is no coach that would have made this team into a winner. Will firing Pagano make things better? Who knows. More than likely Pagano will be fired and things will get better just because of better drafting not because of a coaching change.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand completely about being negative because of our record over the last three seasons. The thing is we have no control over none of this. Getting all worked up over something you have no control over is not good for your mental physic. The NFL is just a game played by over paid grownups. Every team in the NFL has it's ups and downs. It is designed that way. As long time Colts fan we have seen both the top and bottom the good and the bad.

In reality we have no clue firing Pagano is the answer. IMO with the roster we have this season there is no coach that would have made this team into a winner. Will firing Pagano make things better? Who knows. More than likely Pagano will be fired and things will get better just because of better drafting not because of a coaching change.

This is a good post, and I have been taking breaks from football every now and then. Firing Pagano may or may not work, we'll see. I guess it's the appeal that things are bad right now, so a change can only make them better. It's a patience game, and until we hear about what Luck has done in Europe, we won't have an idea of our future. I'll admit, in 20 years, I haven't gone through a transition period like this. Without control, I feel helpless and angry, and I guess I shouldn't take it out on here. We all want the same goals, even if we have different opinions. We just have to get through this rebuilding phase as a forum together. 

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

This is a good post, and I have been taking breaks from football every now and then. Firing Pagano may or may not work, we'll see. I guess it's the appeal that things are bad right now, so a change can only make them better. It's a patience game, and until we hear about what Luck has done in Europe, we won't have an idea of our future. I'll admit, in 20 years, I haven't gone through a transition period like this. Without control, I feel helpless and angry, and I guess I shouldn't take it out on here. We all want the same goals, even if we have different opinions. We just have to get through this rebuilding phase as a forum together. 

Exactly. Lets keep things in perspective. No matter the outcome we do all want the same thing. I look forward to both of us bringing things to the forum other than negative issues.

[BR-549]

18 hours ago, a06cc said:

I didn’t want to make a thread. Tj Green actually played pretty well yesterday as well. 

He even used a wrestling move to finish a tackle, lol

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

He even used a wrestling move to finish a tackle, lol

Just once I'd like to see a belly-to-belly suplex to take a runner down!

[BR-549]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Just once I'd like to see a belly-to-belly suplex to take a runner down!

That would be impressive

[krunk]

4 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Not really.  The best players USUALLY go to big schools.  That is why they normally do well.  When a talented player goes to a smaller school, he doesn't have a harder time making it in the NFL.  The list is very big.  The reality is that the more talented players usually get recruited to the bigger schools. 

I have no idea what this has to do with the post you quoted

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The bottom line is that when Butler went down, Hooker became the starter. You think otherwise? Show me proof Pagano was going to start him over Butler in week 2 if Butler was healthy. He got his chance because of an injury and ran with it, just like most of the rookies have to try to do on the team. 

 

Show you proof?    

 

I just did.    The video of Pagano on the phone draft night calling Hooker a top five player and a future Hall of  Famer.  

 

Hooker didn't even play in the pre-season.

 

If you don't understand that's the proof...   if you think Pagano always intended to start Butler over Hooker then that's my proof of your Pagano hate.   That you make up arguments in order to prove a nonsensical point.   And for what?   Pags will likely be gone in four weeks....

 

[dw49]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Do you even realize we had this conversation a week or two ago?     Seriously.     You made the same claim and I made NOT ONE,  but TWO posts to show how wrong you were, and I thought you acknowledged it then.    But perhaps that was just lip service to change the subject.

 

But If you're going to be spectacularly wrong in various threads like this and refuse to eat your vegetables,  then I'll be happy to spell out just how wrong you are.....

 

Anderson starting had nothig to do with Art Jones.     Both started from the season opener.    Henry didn't start because Jones was hurt.     He started because he earned it.     And so did Jones,  who suffered a high ankle sparing in week 2 on a Monday night game that we lost to Philly.      Jones started 3 games out of the 9 that he played,   but that was including weeks 1 and 2.

 

And Pagano has handled Wilson and Mack perfectly.     Do you see Ballard doing anything about it?     You think he'd let Pagano screw up his draft picks?    Hardly.    Wilson didn't play because he's young (Pags called him the youngest player in the draft and Monachino called him immature and he doesn't know how to practice and prepare.)   

 

Here is the recent article about Wilson and what the coaches have said about him.    Oh,  and let's scratch off another bogie-man here....    there's not a word about Special Teams in the article.   That's another false assertion made famous by the uninformed on this website.    Posters here have turned a passing comment, an example into the entire reason why Wilson doesn't play.     It's 100% false.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/22232/second-round-pick-quincy-wilsons-inactivity-has-been-one-of-colts-biggest-mysteries

 

Monachino clearly says they love Wilson and they know he can play.   That he played well in the Rams game.    But he doesn't know how to practice or prepare.     Imagine how bad he has to be between Monday and Friday for him NOT TO BE PLAYING?!?    Monachino clearly says other players, less talented players are outworking Wilson.    And when he learns how to prepare properly, he will play.     Wilson has to grow-up.   They're not going to let him start when other, lesser players,  are clearly outworking and out preparing the kid.   They're trying to teach him lessons.    

 

As for Mack,  in case you haven't noticed,  he's not doing very well.     Why?     Because, for right now, he's got limited game.      He doesn't know how to run well between the tackles and doesn't know how to pass block.    Some of the games he didn't play at all in the middle of the season were due to the fact that he was hurt and couldn't play.

But when Mack is playing,  he's not doing much and Gore is out-producing him.    Mack is a one trick pony.   He runs outside well.    He can break off good runs.     But there's more to being a good RB than that.

 

Finally.....    I'll slam dunk this entire notion of yours about Pags and rookies.     I did it before,  I'll do it again.

 

If Pags is so bad with rookies,   who is the player who left Indy and went elsewhere and turned out to be a really good player for another team?       I'll wait.     Who is that player?      If these players are so good and Pags is so terrible,  they must have gone elsewhere and done really well.      Who is that player?      

 

I don't think you're going to find a single one.

 

 

Wilson wasn't the youngest player in the draft. He no doubt is young but Steeler WR is a couple months younger. 

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Wilson wasn't the youngest player in the draft. He no doubt is young but Steeler WR is a couple months younger. 

 

 

OK.....

 

Wilson is 20,  and I thought I had heard Pagano or Ballard reference him being the youngest player in the draft.

 

Perhaps not.       

 

Sorry,  wasn't trying to confuse the issue.      Wilson is still very young.

 

[dw49]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

OK.....

 

Wilson is 20,  and I thought I had heard Pagano or Ballard reference him being the youngest player in the draft.

 

Perhaps not.       

 

Sorry,  wasn't trying to confuse the issue.      Wilson is still very young.

 

 

 

I think Pagano did say that. I can find nothing worth posting about so I threw that in. You didn't confuse any issue.. Wilson is young.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Here we go with the Pagano HATE.     And that's what this post is.....  100% pure hate.

 

Pagano LOVED Hooker.     Remember the phone call on draft night....    Pagano saying he was a top-5 player and was going to be the Colts Ed Reed?      Remember?     

 

The only reason Hooker didn't start from Day 1 is because he wasn't physically ready.     It had nothing to do with Pagano not liking rookies.     The idea with Butler was always to have him be the nickle back.    The third safety.    Hooker was dialed in start from the day he was drafted,   but his rehab went slow.     He wasn't ready to play 65 snaps.

 

I don't where you get this stuff or why you want let little things like this go?   

 

 

This is CORRECT!!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You used to bring a lot more to this forum besides the constant whine about Pagano. It's a shame you have turned your back on bringing those things in.

I am not squirming at all about Pagano. If he gets fired that's life in the NFL. I been around long enough to see a railroad job when I see one. Pagano was set up to be the scapegoat from day one this season.

I am sure being fired by the Colts is small potatoes compared to what he has been through. No matter what happens I will always say Pagano is a good coach but circumstances out of his control was the cause of his undoing.

So Pagano has his first losing season. So what? Name me one head coach in the league who has not had a losing season.

Oh by the way, our young players are coming along just fine all things considered. The defense has improved and would be a lot more improved had injuries not slowed it down. We still are in dire need of offensive linemen and that causes a chain reaction of bad offense.

 

 

This is also CORRECT!!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Do you even realize we had this conversation a week or two ago?     Seriously.     You made the same claim and I made NOT ONE,  but TWO posts to show how wrong you were, and I thought you acknowledged it then.    But perhaps that was just lip service to change the subject.

 

But If you're going to be spectacularly wrong in various threads like this and refuse to eat your vegetables,  then I'll be happy to spell out just how wrong you are.....

 

Anderson starting had nothig to do with Art Jones.     Both started from the season opener.    Henry didn't start because Jones was hurt.     He started because he earned it.     And so did Jones,  who suffered a high ankle sparing in week 2 on a Monday night game that we lost to Philly.      Jones started 3 games out of the 9 that he played,   but that was including weeks 1 and 2.

 

And Pagano has handled Wilson and Mack perfectly.     Do you see Ballard doing anything about it?     You think he'd let Pagano screw up his draft picks?    Hardly.    Wilson didn't play because he's young (Pags called him the youngest player in the draft and Monachino called him immature and he doesn't know how to practice and prepare.)   

 

Here is the recent article about Wilson and what the coaches have said about him.    Oh,  and let's scratch off another bogie-man here....    there's not a word about Special Teams in the article.   That's another false assertion made famous by the uninformed on this website.    Posters here have turned a passing comment, an example into the entire reason why Wilson doesn't play.     It's 100% false.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/22232/second-round-pick-quincy-wilsons-inactivity-has-been-one-of-colts-biggest-mysteries

 

Monachino clearly says they love Wilson and they know he can play.   That he played well in the Rams game.    But he doesn't know how to practice or prepare.     Imagine how bad he has to be between Monday and Friday for him NOT TO BE PLAYING?!?    Monachino clearly says other players, less talented players are outworking Wilson.    And when he learns how to prepare properly, he will play.     Wilson has to grow-up.   They're not going to let him start when other, lesser players,  are clearly outworking and out preparing the kid.   They're trying to teach him lessons.    

 

As for Mack,  in case you haven't noticed,  he's not doing very well.     Why?     Because, for right now, he's got limited game.      He doesn't know how to run well between the tackles and doesn't know how to pass block.    Some of the games he didn't play at all in the middle of the season were due to the fact that he was hurt and couldn't play.

But when Mack is playing,  he's not doing much and Gore is out-producing him.    Mack is a one trick pony.   He runs outside well.    He can break off good runs.     But there's more to being a good RB than that.

 

Finally.....    I'll slam dunk this entire notion of yours about Pags and rookies.     I did it before,  I'll do it again.

 

If Pags is so bad with rookies,   who is the player who left Indy and went elsewhere and turned out to be a really good player for another team?       I'll wait.     Who is that player?      If these players are so good and Pags is so terrible,  they must have gone elsewhere and done really well.      Who is that player?      

 

I don't think you're going to find a single one.

 

More CORRECT STUFF!!

[LockeDown]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

I have no idea what this has to do with the post you quoted

Whoops, Wrong post .  Sorry.

[dgambill]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 12:50 PM, csmopar said:

there's "Colts fans" on this forum who claim Andrew Luck is a bust...... so im sure someone here at some point in time said Basham was as well

I know I'm going to catch flack but what the heck....he was also said to be a once in a generation qb as well by many experts...and so far his career has been eclipsed by Russell Wilson and some would even say Kirk Cousins. No doubt he is super talented and I love having him on the team but certainly he hasn't been this once in a generation qb the likes of a John Elway or something that some have claimed. Go ahead and pile on if you wish...and quote all the numbers etc because we know the game has changed since John played but while he has been a great qb and I love the guy and how much heart he plays with...he still has a ways to go to be that transcendent qb people were saying he would be.

[dgambill]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 12:16 PM, Aluckiswolverine said:

Have you watched the Colts prior to the 2017 season? Pagano doesnt starts talented rookies over veterans. Werner was a 1st round pick you start your 1st round pick. 

Chuck does prefer experience over youth...but I don't think he is purposely not playing Basham because he is young and he just played Werner because he was a first rd pick. We also didn't play Dorsett or give him many opportunities even though he was a top pick the last couple years. He plays the guys he trust and that he thinks gives him the best chance to win. Basham for much of the season and probably 90% of his plays has looked lost as kitten out there....and played like one to boot. He made a good play this week and I hope he makes many more to come...but make no mistake Werner was further along then Basham at this point his rookie season and that is why he played. I agree I think Basham has more athleticism and the ability to shine down the road but he has to prove it on the field. I'm praying he does for our sake....I don't worry so much about what pick the guy was....I'm comparing rookies to rookies...I think Werner flashed more than Basham has. I think he understood his role and where to be. I do think Basham had more of a battle coming from lesser competition so I will expect him to make a leap next year if he is going to figure it out. I hope he does.

[dgambill]

21 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Didn’t Bjorn start though? Or rotated in much more often? I know he got playoff reps and I doubt Basham would be given that. 

He did...which all that means to me is that he was good enough to be playing every Sunday and contributing...Basham at this point hasn't proven worthy of that. Perhaps our OLB are better and its harder for him to get on the field....but Werner was playing behind Mathis and Waldon so I'd say its a wash as far as talent ahead of him. I'm far from giving up on Basham but I've no where seen anything that suggests from his on the field play he is going to have a better career than Werners yet.

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I know I'm going to catch flack but what the heck....he was also said to be a once in a generation qb as well by many experts...and so far his career has been eclipsed by Russell Wilson and some would even say Kirk Cousins. No doubt he is super talented and I love having him on the team but certainly he hasn't been this once in a generation qb the likes of a John Elway or something that some have claimed. Go ahead and pile on if you wish...and quote all the numbers etc because we know the game has changed since John played but while he has been a great qb and I love the guy and how much heart he plays with...he still has a ways to go to be that transcendent qb people were saying he would be.

FYI.... John Elway didn't win a super bowl until he was dang near ready to retire.....

[dgambill]

Just now, csmopar said:

FYI.... John Elway didn't win a super bowl until he was dang near ready to retire.....

Hmm....indeed....but he did take his team to 3 SBs before that...and as early as 1987. John Elway is a superior qb than Andrew Luck...and that's no slight to Andrew. Right now I think its safe to say Russell Wilson is a superior qb than Andrew Luck. Look I love Luck but its the truth in my eyes. Has he underachieved....it just depends on the expectations set for him so far....some I'm sure on here would say yes...I would say they probably have too high expectations.....but is there things I thought he would be better at by now....sure....but then again he had a TON of hype coming into the league....so maybe I bought into that a little too much. That's my fault. He is far from a bust obviously but that doesn't mean it would be out of the question to think that he would be better than he has been so far. It isn't unreasonable to look back and say right now we don't have the best qb from that draft...and increasingly possible we have the third best qb. I'm hoping that next year will be the start of his taking the next step to being the best qb in the league but he has work to do in his game to achieve that.

[NewColtsFan]

16 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

I can't wait until Pagano is fired....  in fact I hope someone has already turned the light off in his office....  it will be more enjoyable around here not listening to the Pagano apologists that are ruining all these threads with their yappin and making things up to try to fit their point but can't defend honest questions....

 

''hopefully they move on with Pagano 

 

Ok....    I'll bite....

 

What's the honest Pagano question that can't be answered?

 

[Coltfreak]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ok....    I'll bite....

 

What's the honest Pagano question that can't be answered?

 

I'll give you two.  

 

1. How many winning seasons has Pagano had since he's been here?

 

2 what yr was the last winning season Pagano has coached?

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

I'll give you two.  

 

1. How many winning seasons has Pagano had since he's been here?

 

2 what yr was the last winning season Pagano has coached?

 

He's had three...   i credit him with 2012.

 

His last winning season was 2014.

 

i don't find this hard to answer.    And Sean Payton went 7-9 three straight years.    But now that he's got more talent, he's winning again.

 

Also think that 2015 and 2016 were both very good years for Pagano.    There was no shame going 8-8 in either season.   I think it's pretty impressive.

 

But I think Pagano's shelf life has expired. I think it's time for a change and have been saying so all calendar year.   I'm looking forward to seeing who the Colts replace him with.

 

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He's had three...   i credit him with 2012.

 

His last winning season was 2014.

 

i don't find this hard to answer.    And Sean Payton went 7-9 three straight years.    But now that he's got more talent, he's winning again.

 

Also think that 2015 and 2016 were both very good years for Pagano.    There was no shame going 8-8 in either season.   I think it's pretty impressive.

 

But I think Pagano's shelf life has expired. I think it's time for a change and have been saying so all calendar year.   I'm looking forward to seeing who the Colts replace him with.

 

I forgot about Sean Payton's streak of three straight losing seasons. He was on the hot seat the last couple of years but survived and now look where the team is.  Considering our QB situation this year Chuck might be like a cat and have another one of those lives available. 

[krunk]

And then (Tarell) Basham coming in, we’re starting to see the flashes of pass rush from Tarell Basham . I’m proud of him, because he’s working. He knows for a pass rusher in this league it takes a lot of work against these good tackles, and he’s really done a nice job here over the last month working and perfecting his craft and getting better at his craft. So we’re starting to see good flashes from him that we want to see.

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Chris-Ballard-‘Absolutely-We’re-Going-To-Get-There’/8a583755-b0c0-4b94-af26-169e96800dab

[Coltfreak]

43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He's had three...   i credit him with 2012.

 

His last winning season was 2014.

 

i don't find this hard to answer.    And Sean Payton went 7-9 three straight years.    But now that he's got more talent, he's winning again.

 

Also think that 2015 and 2016 were both very good years for Pagano.    There was no shame going 8-8 in either season.   I think it's pretty impressive.

 

But I think Pagano's shelf life has expired. I think it's time for a change and have been saying so all calendar year.   I'm looking forward to seeing who the Colts replace him with.

 

Why are giving him credit for what Arians did?

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Why are giving him credit for what Arians did?

 

Because he showed in 2013 and 14 that he could win just as much even without Arians.

 

So if Pagano had not gotten sick in 12 nothing would've been different.    Arians would have been standing next to Pagano making all the same play calls.    There's no reason to think we would have won fewer games.    

 

If Pagano had not done as well in 13 and 14, THEN I think you'd have an argument.    But since he did just as well,  I think any argument is moot.