Does Eli make it into the HoF?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

If Eli retires soon, does he make it into the Hall of Fame?  He's had a pretty good career so far.

 

His 2 SB wins are some of the most impressive SB wins ever.  The Helmet-Catch play was historical.  Decent stats.  He's a Manning.

 

But he's always been... well... Eli.  Great plays here and there, and then streaks of bad play.  I don't know if I'd call him elite.  Over the course of his career, when compared to other elite QBs, he seems kind of average.

 

  What do you guys think?

[crazycolt1]

He may not be a first ballot but I think he gets in.

[CF4L]

He shouldn't but he probably will because of the 2 SBs he did win.

[2006Coltsbestever]

He will, he had a streak of 210 straight starts and won 2 SB's + 2 SB MVP's. Both times he won the SB his teams were big underdogs as they beat Tom and BB. I think he deserves to make it as well, maybe not 1st ballot but he deserves to get in.

[BloodyChamp]

He's in for the 2nd biggest upset in football history just like the other quarterback was for the biggest upset in football history if nothing else. But I also think the rest of his resume is HoF worthy in context.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

He's in for the 2nd biggest upset in football history just like the other quarterback was for the biggest upset in football history if nothing else. But I also think the rest of his resume is HoF worthy in context.

I actually agree with you.

[wizwor]

Of course he does.  He won two.  He is a Patriot slayer.  His brother and father are at least as famous.  It's a great story.  He's in.

[oldunclemark]

Yes, Eli's numbers and longevity get him in.

    The tougher question?   Does Phillip Rivers reach the Hall-of-Fame?

[The Fish]

Yes. For literally no other reason than beating Tom Brady in two Super Bowls- and maybe the consecutive starts coupled with the wins.. If you look too long and hard though, you'd wonder why he's getting in.

[dgambill]

Just if anyone is interested but that draft was LOADED...lol. Eli might actually be the worst of all the HOF players from that class. Just look at that class even the undrafted players...wow a lot of talent came out of there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NFL_Draft

 

HOF

1. Ben Rothlisburger

2. Larry Fitzgerald

3. Philip Rivers

4. Jared Allen

5. Eli Manning

6. Vince Wilfork

and Sean Taylor would have been if he wasn't murdered I fully believe.

But just check out the pro bowl caliber players in that draft...from players like Jonathon Vilma all the way down to Wes Welker...just about every team got a pro bowler from that draft.

 

For the reasons that many have said...Eli deserves to be in the HOF....you can't overlook the two SBs that he won denying Tom what perhaps could have been 7 SBs. Plus he is a New York athlete so there is that bias to add in too. But honestly you can't discuss the history of the NFL through this past decade without discussing Eli's contributions....but I don't think he is even close to the first HOFs to go in from his class or the best.

[mikey287]

There is no real convincing case to put Eli in the HOF other than the odd fetish NFL fans have with winning one game in the shortest playoffs in sports. It's bizarre that that carries so much weight (enough to make a top-10ish QB of all-time like Tom Brady get talked about like he's a #1, for instance...same with Joe Montana, who is probably a rung up on Brady, but probably not top 3).

 

There's 28 QBs in the HOF. Let's examine some of the "worst" and compare some things statistically to Eli...

 

Eli Manning

2x Super Bowl MVP

Never First- or Second-Team All-Pro

 

Top-8 finishes in passing yds: 4, 5, 5, 6, 6

Top-8 finishes in passing TDs: 2, 4, 4, 4, 6, 8

Top-8 finishes in comp%: N/A

Top-8 finishes in int%: 7

Top-8 finishes in QB Rating: 7

 

##

 

Joe Namath

1x Super Bowl MVP

1x AFL Player of the Year

First-Team All-Pro: 1968

 

Top-6 finishes in passing yds: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 6

Top-6 finishes in passing TDs: 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 5

Top-6 finishes in comp%: 2, 4, 4, 4, 5

Top-6 finishes in int%: 3, 4, 4, 6

Top-6 finishes in QB Rating: 3, 3, 4, 4, 6

 

Some asterisks here as Namath played his first five seasons in a split-professional setting.

 

Troy Aikman

1x Super Bowl MVP

Never First- or Second-Team All-Pro

 

Top-8 finishes in passing yds: 4, 8

Top-8 finishes in passing TDs: 3

Top-8 finishes in comp%: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 8

Top-8 finishes in int%: 1, 2, 8

Top-8 finishes in QB Rating: 2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 8

 

Terry Bradshaw

2x Super Bowl MVP

1x NFL MVP (+ 1x Bert Bell Player of the Year)

First-Team All-Pro: 1978

 

Top-6 finishes in passing yds: 3, 5, 6

Top-6 finishes in passing TDs: 1, 1, 4, 5, 6

Top-6 finishes in comp%: N/A

Top-6 finishes in int%: 4, 6

Top-6 finishes in QB Rating: 2, 5, 6

 

 

The goal of the HOF isn't just try to fit people under a given low bar by rationalizing and compounding previous mistakes...which Aikman, for instance, likely was...or even Bradshaw. The idea is to put deserving players in the HOF and not water it down. I made a very simple statistical formula based on finishes as outlined above for every season in professional football history to date.

 

For those looking to vet it off-hand, the top-5 currently sits as: Sammy Baugh, Peyton Manning, Fran Tarkenton, Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas. Not bad.

 

All of the top 15 are in the HOF by my rudimentary metric except for Peyton, Brees, Brady, as they aren't eligible yet, obviously. The highest QB ranked that is not in the HOF is #16 - Ken Anderson. Which most people would agree is just about the best QB eligible for the Hall who is not in.

 

There are 28 QBs in the HOF. In my metric all of the 28 fall in the top-48 (which again, includes active players who will be in) - except one, Terry Bradshaw (71st). The rest of the bottom five of HOFers are John Elway (48), Jim Kelly (45), Bob Waterfield (43), Troy Aikman (42).

 

Eli Manning will almost certainly be adding zero points to his resume...he currently ranks: 108th. Harry Newman, Greg Landry and Matt Hasselbeck in the three spots ahead of him. Glenn Presnell, Matt Schaub and Bill Nelsen in the three spots behind him. 

 

In other words, it would take an unbelievably disproportionate amount of weight to be placed on winning two games in non-consecutive seasons (as blessed as we are that those happened) to even remotely come close to even considering him a HOFer.

[crazycolt1]

28 minutes ago, mikey287 said:

There is no real convincing case to put Eli in the HOF other than the odd fetish NFL fans have with winning one game in the shortest playoffs in sports. It's bizarre that that carries so much weight (enough to make a top-10ish QB of all-time like Tom Brady get talked about like he's a #1, for instance...same with Joe Montana, who is probably a rung up on Brady, but probably not top 3).

 

There's 28 QBs in the HOF. Let's examine some of the "worst" and compare some things statistically to Eli...

 

Eli Manning

2x Super Bowl MVP

Never First- or Second-Team All-Pro

 

Top-8 finishes in passing yds: 4, 5, 5, 6, 6

Top-8 finishes in passing TDs: 2, 4, 4, 4, 6, 8

Top-8 finishes in comp%: N/A

Top-8 finishes in int%: 7

Top-8 finishes in QB Rating: 7

 

##

 

Joe Namath

1x Super Bowl MVP

1x AFL Player of the Year

First-Team All-Pro: 1968

 

Top-6 finishes in passing yds: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 6

Top-6 finishes in passing TDs: 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 5

Top-6 finishes in comp%: 2, 4, 4, 4, 5

Top-6 finishes in int%: 3, 4, 4, 6

Top-6 finishes in QB Rating: 3, 3, 4, 4, 6

 

Some asterisks here as Namath played his first five seasons in a split-professional setting.

 

Troy Aikman

1x Super Bowl MVP

Never First- or Second-Team All-Pro

 

Top-8 finishes in passing yds: 4, 8

Top-8 finishes in passing TDs: 3

Top-8 finishes in comp%: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 8

Top-8 finishes in int%: 1, 2, 8

Top-8 finishes in QB Rating: 2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 8

 

Terry Bradshaw

2x Super Bowl MVP

1x NFL MVP (+ 1x Bert Bell Player of the Year)

First-Team All-Pro: 1978

 

Top-6 finishes in passing yds: 3, 5, 6

Top-6 finishes in passing TDs: 1, 1, 4, 5, 6

Top-6 finishes in comp%: N/A

Top-6 finishes in int%: 4, 6

Top-6 finishes in QB Rating: 2, 5, 6

 

 

The goal of the HOF isn't just try to fit people under a given low bar by rationalizing and compounding previous mistakes...which Aikman, for instance, likely was...or even Bradshaw. The idea is to put deserving players in the HOF and not water it down. I made a very simple statistical formula based on finishes as outlined above for every season in professional football history to date.

 

For those looking to vet it off-hand, the top-5 currently sits as: Sammy Baugh, Peyton Manning, Fran Tarkenton, Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas. Not bad.

 

All of the top 15 are in the HOF by my rudimentary metric except for Peyton, Brees, Brady, as they aren't eligible yet, obviously. The highest QB ranked that is not in the HOF is #16 - Ken Anderson. Which most people would agree is just about the best QB eligible for the Hall who is not in.

 

There are 28 QBs in the HOF. In my metric all of the 28 fall in the top-48 (which again, includes active players who will be in) - except one, Terry Bradshaw (71st). The rest of the bottom five of HOFers are John Elway (48), Jim Kelly (45), Bob Waterfield (43), Troy Aikman (42).

 

Eli Manning will almost certainly be adding zero points to his resume...he currently ranks: 108th. Harry Newman, Greg Landry and Matt Hasselbeck in the three spots ahead of him. Glenn Presnell, Matt Schaub and Bill Nelsen in the three spots behind him. 

 

In other words, it would take an unbelievably disproportionate amount of weight to be placed on winning two games in non-consecutive seasons (as blessed as we are that those happened) to even remotely come close to even considering him a HOFer.

2 time super bowl MVP

4 pro bowls

Most passing  yards in a post season

Most consecutive passes competed in a super bowl

2nd most starts in history

most road wins to reach a super bowl (he took and won a super bowl with a 9-7 team)

only QB to have never threw a pick in post season

Only QB to beat a undefeated team in a super bowl

Sorry, those are HOF numbers.

[mikey287]

In order:

- Sure. If anyone considers a one-game MVP an actual thing. Not playoff MVP, but a single game MVP. Ridiculous beyond repair, but sure.

- lol

- having one stretch of 3 or 4 games in a 15 year career doesn't move the needle much. That's more trivia than career definition.

- again, don't confuse trivia with actual HOF stuff. Similarly, no credit would be given for best record in Monday Night Football games. This is just trivia.

- ok, he didn't get hurt a lot. Got it. We're talking HOF, all these guys have played a lot. Plus, it's a DOB-biased stat.

- trivia

- trivia

- trivia, most of which stemming from a single playoff run.

 

Respectfully, there is a serious, serious misunderstanding here between trivia and Snapple cap anecdotes versus actual career accomplishment on a macro level. Moreover, you quoted a post of really nothing but numbers (mine) and then produced no real numbers yourself or context of such and stated "those are HOF numbers"...it is a deeply confusing post in what should be good historical discussion...

 

[mikey287]

Also, at least one of those trivial points seems to be false...

 

This is the list of most consecutive completions in a Super Bowl. (not pictured: Elite Eli)

 

16	Tom Brady, New England vs. N.Y. Giants, XLVI
13	Joe Montana, San Francisco vs. Denver, XXIV
10	Phil Simms, N.Y. Giants vs. Denver, XXI Troy Aikman, Dallas vs. Pittsburgh, XXX Kurt Warner, Arizona vs. Pittsburgh, XLIII Drew Brees, New Orleans vs. Indianapolis, XLIV
9	Jim Kelly, Buffalo vs. Dallas, XXVIII Neil O?Donnell, Pittsburgh vs. Dallas, XXX Steve McNair, Tennessee vs. St. Louis, XXXIV Peyton Manning, Indianapolis vs. Chicago, XLI

[2006Coltsbestever]

Eli Manning is 7th all-time in Passing Yards with over 50,000 and 8th in TD passes with 334. He also started in 210 straight games and has won 2 SB MVP's. His teams beat Brady/BB not once but twice. Once when they were 18-0. Eli is a HOFamer without question!

[mikey287]

There is almost no question that he isn't. Compilation stats are inherently biased towards modern era players. That's why no one in the historical community of any sport really uses them because they create an illusion that will be toppled by the next generation. Or what happens when you go to an 18-game season...? What about players that had 9 super strong years, real impact season...like Bobby Orr in hockey...and here you're sitting here measuring players by how many numbers they compiled as opposed to how much of a season-to-season impact they had. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

Of the top 12 passing yard getters of all time...8 of them played in this decade (2010s)...is the thought, somehow, that 8 of the 12 best QBs of all time somehow graced our presence in the past few seasons? That seems highly unlikely doesn't it? Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer...? Yeah, stop, those players are Hall of Very Good at best. 

 

Conversely, exactly 0 of the top 30 passers in history had their prime before the merger (1970). So, are we to blindly assume that all of the best QBs that have ever played have played in the last 40 years? That's ridiculous to the highest degree. Unless of course your all time list includes Joe Flacco, who will be 26th in passing yards next week without even adjusting for pass interference yards that he gets. Flacco is, in every way, a forgettable zit on the butt of NFL history...but he has more yards than Y.A. Tittle, so, what the hey...

 

That's why "finishes" as posed above are much more useful because it provides context to numbers and compares one to his peers...instead of an unrealistic standard of players playing in run-heavy times, in lesser-gamed seasons having to compete with the hyper passing offenses of today. 300 yards games don't mean nearly as much today as they did 20 years ago, that's plainly obvious at the micro level but over time (such as in a historical discussion) manifests itself at a macro level in a big and very meaningful way.

 

As someone who is very, very involved in hockey's historical community, I greatly enjoy the comparison of historical figures across eras...but it needs to be done responsibly. Alex Smith having more career passing yards than Len Dawson is not a responsible basis for an argument...needs context...desperately. By the logic posed above, every QB in the league that plays for 12 or more years will end up in the HOF...all of them. There's currently 28 in there after 100 years of pro football. It just doesn't work that way with the "career numbers" argument and it never will...

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

@mikey287  Good input.

 

It's interesting if you think about it; statistically, the SB is just another game in the grand scheme of things.  But SB 42 was historical because of the Pats, which made it historical for the Giants as well.

 

If Brady and Belichick hadn't kept the dynasty going from 2004 to now, and the Pats hadn't been 18-0 going into SB 42, the Giants winning SB 42 would be just another SB that happened to have an amazing catch.  But fairly or unfairly, the more impressive the career of Tom Brady gets, the more impressive those 2 SB wins become for Eli.

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, mikey287 said:

In order:

- Sure. If anyone considers a one-game MVP an actual thing. Not playoff MVP, but a single game MVP. Ridiculous beyond repair, but sure.

- lol

- having one stretch of 3 or 4 games in a 15 year career doesn't move the needle much. That's more trivia than career definition.

- again, don't confuse trivia with actual HOF stuff. Similarly, no credit would be given for best record in Monday Night Football games. This is just trivia.

- ok, he didn't get hurt a lot. Got it. We're talking HOF, all these guys have played a lot. Plus, it's a DOB-biased stat.

- trivia

- trivia

- trivia, most of which stemming from a single playoff run.

 

Respectfully, there is a serious, serious misunderstanding here between trivia and Snapple cap anecdotes versus actual career accomplishment on a macro level. Moreover, you quoted a post of really nothing but numbers (mine) and then produced no real numbers yourself or context of such and stated "those are HOF numbers"...it is a deeply confusing post in what should be good historical discussion...

 

 Those are accomplishments, not trivia.

[mikey287]

Accomplishments of what regard though? I mean, at least one of them is false. Let's start popping these balloons. These ex post facto claims are crafted to an individual. No one sets out to "beat an undefeated team in a Super Bowl" - that's just not a thing...to do...it's entirely worthless the way its frame. It's entirely worthwhile from the sense of "he won a Super Bowl" trying to dress it up, again, with these ex post facto garnishes adds absolutely zippo to the case. In fact, it hurts it slightly because it's distracting and causes the reader to look for ways to cut down the embellishment.

 

HOF resumes are built on season to season impact. Impact on the game in an era. It's macro level. Completing 7 straight passes in the 3rd quarter of a game is completely - and I mean, complete and absolute - irrelevant. It's trivia. 

 

It's neat. It's fun. I like it. But in a true discussion of the history of the game, this stuff need not apply.

 

Similarly, Steve Young is the only left handed QB in the HOF. Sammy Baugh is the only player to lead the league in passing yards and interceptions in the same season. Those are accomplishments. But they are only known because that niche was carved. Whereas, everyone sets out to lead the league in passing yards. That's an accomplishment. Leading the league in passing yards in Thursday Night games is just something that happens and it's an anecdote...one that has almost no merit to anything...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, mikey287 said:

That's more trivia than career definition.

- again, don't confuse trivia with actual HOF stuff. Similarly, no credit would be given for best record in Monday Night Football games. This is just trivia.

 

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 Those are accomplishments, not trivia.

 

Yeah, to be fair, that "trivia" is technically NFL history.

 

Eli throwing the helmet-catch and winning SB 42 is a significant moment in NFL history.

 

The NFL Gods spoke through Eli that day, and I think it might anger them if we didn't allow Eli a spot in the HoF.

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, mikey287 said:

Accomplishments of what regard though? I mean, at least one of them is false. Let's start popping these balloons. These ex post facto claims are crafted to an individual. No one sets out to "beat an undefeated team in a Super Bowl" - that's just not a thing...to do...it's entirely worthless the way its frame. It's entirely worthwhile from the sense of "he won a Super Bowl" trying to dress it up, again, with these ex post facto garnishes adds absolutely zippo to the case. In fact, it hurts it slightly because it's distracting and causes the reader to look for ways to cut down the embellishment.

 

HOF resumes are built on season to season impact. Impact on the game in an era. It's macro level. Completing 7 straight passes in the 3rd quarter of a game is completely - and I mean, complete and absolute - irrelevant. It's trivia. 

 

It's neat. It's fun. I like it. But in a true discussion of the history of the game, this stuff need not apply.

 

Similarly, Steve Young is the only left handed QB in the HOF. Sammy Baugh is the only player to lead the league in passing yards and interceptions in the same season. Those are accomplishments. But they are only known because that niche was carved. Whereas, everyone sets out to lead the league in passing yards. That's an accomplishment. Leading the league in passing yards in Thursday Night games is just something that happens and it's an anecdote...one that has almost no merit to anything...

You may down play accomplishments but they are facts of NFL history.

If you throw away the facts, there would be no HOFers.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I really, Really, REALLY want Eli to get into the HoF just in case Madden is right about what happens at night.

 

If they all start talkin and ribbin each other at night, I want Eli there just so that Peyton can always be like:

 

"What Tom? Five rings, huh? HEY ELI!  Tell us all the story again about that helmet-catch play from 42."

[mikey287]

Uhhh...all right, what we have here a failure to communicate. I'll just sit back and wait for the conversation to get back on the rails towards substance-ville...cheers.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, mikey287 said:

Uhhh...all right, what we have here a failure to communicate. I'll just sit back and wait for the conversation to get back on the rails towards substance-ville...cheers.

It's not a point of failing to communicate.  You may write all the mini novels you care to. It's just a matter of a difference of opinions. That's all.

The thread is not off any rails just because some don't agree with you.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Also, at least one of those trivial points seems to be false...

 

This is the list of most consecutive completions in a Super Bowl. (not pictured: Elite Eli)

 

16	Tom Brady, New England vs. N.Y. Giants, XLVI
13	Joe Montana, San Francisco vs. Denver, XXIV
10	Phil Simms, N.Y. Giants vs. Denver, XXI Troy Aikman, Dallas vs. Pittsburgh, XXX Kurt Warner, Arizona vs. Pittsburgh, XLIII Drew Brees, New Orleans vs. Indianapolis, XLIV
9	Jim Kelly, Buffalo vs. Dallas, XXVIII Neil O?Donnell, Pittsburgh vs. Dallas, XXX Steve McNair, Tennessee vs. St. Louis, XXXIV Peyton Manning, Indianapolis vs. Chicago, XLI

He had 9 strait completions to start super bowl XLVI

He also had 8 come from behind game winning drives in 1 season.

He also had 10 road games wins in his super bowl run.

He also threw zero interceptions in his post season career. That is a feat that no other QB has ever done.

 

[coltsva]

Where is this "zero interceptions in his post season career" coming from? 

 

Eli post season stats: 18 TD's, 9 INT's according to my research. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

43 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He had 9 strait completions to start super bowl XLVI

He also had 8 come from behind game winning drives in 1 season.

He also had 10 road games wins in his super bowl run.

He also threw zero interceptions in his post season career. That is a feat that no other QB has ever done.

 

I really don't see how anyone can debate Eli isn't a HOFamer. Everyone automatically says Ben is and Ben 0 SB MVP's. I think Ben is but Eli's resume is actually better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 people voted NO, what a joke  

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Where is this "zero interceptions in his post season career" coming from? 

 

Eli post season stats: 18 TD's, 9 INT's according to my research. 

 

Your research is correct but Eli is still a HOFamer, not sure what CC1 looked up?

[RockThatBlue]

I'm on the fence about it. He does have 2 rings and I'm sure it'll be taken into consideration, but Eli was never really considered an elite or top 5 QB, even in his good seasons was he? He was always looked at as good but not great. 

 

I think the 2 rings will get him in anyway though so I guess my thoughts don't matter lol

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Where is this "zero interceptions in his post season career" coming from? 

 

Eli post season stats: 18 TD's, 9 INT's according to my research. 

 

My bad. It was conference championships. I read it wrong.

[coltsva]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

My bad. It was conference championships. I read it wrong.

Thought that or SB's might have been it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

I'm on the fence about it. He does have 2 rings and I'm sure it'll be taken into consideration, but Eli was never really considered an elite or top 5 QB, even in his good seasons was he? He was always looked at as good but not great. 

 

I think the 2 rings will get him in anyway though so I guess my thoughts don't matter lol

He has more passing Yards than Ben as well if you factor in statistics and both came out in the same Draft, also 2 SB MVP's. I think Ben is a HOFamer as well and I have never considered him in Brady, Peyton's, Rodgers, or Brees class.

[coltsva]

Some things that could work against Eli are win pct at 110-100, and playoffs in only 6 of 14 years. 

[mikey287]

That, and he would be, by a mile, the worst QB in the HOF. Let me try a different approach, because to have this be logically consistent, you have to do it all the way through...a vote for Eli Manning for the HOF requires such mental gymnastics via ungodly weight on two playoff runs that Tom Brady is - by a metric butt ton - the best QB of all time. You cannot separate those two things and still be logically consistent. This would also make Terry Bradshaw a top 10 QB, if not top 5...Troy Aikman, an iffy HOFer in his own right, becomes an option in the 10-15 area. It comes with a lot of nonsense to try to squint Eli Manning - a player who was never really a top 5 QB in the game for any stretch of time - into a HOFer...

[Malakai432]

15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eli Manning is 7th all-time in Passing Yards with over 50,000 and 8th in TD passes with 334. He also started in 210 straight games and has won 2 SB MVP's. His teams beat Brady/BB not once but twice. Once when they were 18-0. Eli is a HOFamer without question!

 

^ This.  I think he’s a sure fire Hofer...

[Lucky Colts Fan]

9 hours ago, mikey287 said:

That, and he would be, by a mile, the worst QB in the HOF. Let me try a different approach, because to have this be logically consistent, you have to do it all the way through...a vote for Eli Manning for the HOF requires such mental gymnastics via ungodly weight on two playoff runs that Tom Brady is - by a metric butt ton - the best QB of all time. You cannot separate those two things and still be logically consistent. This would also make Terry Bradshaw a top 10 QB, if not top 5...Troy Aikman, an iffy HOFer in his own right, becomes an option in the 10-15 area. It comes with a lot of nonsense to try to squint Eli Manning - a player who was never really a top 5 QB in the game for any stretch of time - into a HOFer...

 

How would you rank the current generation of QBs, and do any of them get into the HoF?  Not including Peyton and Brady, who are obviously 1st-ballot, and Brees, who should be.  After that, there's a group of guys like Rivers, Rothelisberger, Eli, Stafford, Ryan, etc. that have a chance.  

 

Maybe we got lucky getting to see Peyton, Tom and Drew for the last two decades.  Because to me, it feels like there is a huge dropoff after those three and nobody else really deserves to get into the HoF when compared to them.

 

Manning, Brady and Brees took the bar and strapped it to a rocket (cuz they're rocket-scientists ) headed for the moon.  I think it will be a long time before we see a QB come anywhere close to their level of consistent greatness.

[mikey287]

Based on the names, I'm guessing "generation" means players that had their peak after 2000...? If I'm reading that correctly, you could roughly go...

 

A tier of: Manning, Brees, Brady. Those careers are largely finished, so they are the easiest to kind of fit into the puzzle. They aren't likely to add large chunks to their resumes at this point. I think you can safely say that they are all top 15 QBs of all-time. Pretty good case for Manning and Brees to be top 7 or 8. Brady is getting there...again, unless you really, really worship Super Bowls, then Brady is easily top 3, of course.

 

Next tier probably has: Rodgers...and maybe Rodgers alone at this point...he has some good career left hopefully. He's probably already a top-25 or -30 QB of all-time just squinting at things here early this morning...

 

Next tier is: Rivers, Romo, Roethlisberger ya figure...I guess Matt Ryan is working his way through there, but he's had less career than these guys so it's tough...

 

You mentioned Eli and Stafford...those are below everyone here...they don't even really rate. I mean, Eli will always be remembered for winning two Super Bowls. But let's take pull our heads out of our underpants for a second and just say Tyree drops it...Eli Manning becomes immediately forgettable...he just becomes another Phil Simms or Ron Jaworksi if he had won in 1980 or Mark Brunell...he's just not that relevant historically. Now, obviously, Tyree holds on...but is Eli Manning a better quarterback because Tyree made an impossible play? This is what I'm getting at is that these individual pop shots are not what you should get caught up in when discussing the historical merits of a player or, at the very least, you shouldn't lose sight of how fragile individual plays are in the grand scheme of history.

 

Let's use an example that hits closer to home...Hank Baskett doesn't botch that onside kick and the Colts have a pretty damn good shot of winning that Super Bowl...is Manning worse because Baskett booped it? Is Manning worse because Vanderjagt missed his kick and Vinatieri made his? And further, is Manning better because he did almost nothing in the worst season of his life but still got a Super Bowl out of it in Denver?

 

Again, no denying that Eli Manning did some awesome stuff...he's got that sizzle, but this a truck-stop steak...it's chewy, rough and overcooked...and it matches the eye test too...it's not like Eli Manning was a superstar or even a regular star...he was just an above average quarterback that had a couple of nice three-game stretches. That's more than a lot of guys can say, but it's not overwhelming when talking about the HOF. If we're prepared to make Eli Manning the 29th quarterback in the HOF, you better make way for a ton of other guys...probably another 40, easy.

[RockThatBlue]

19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He has more passing Yards than Ben as well if you factor in statistics and both came out in the same Draft, also 2 SB MVP's. I think Ben is a HOFamer as well and I have never considered him in Brady, Peyton's, Rodgers, or Brees class.

Big Ben should definitely get in IMO

[NFLfan]

3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Big Ben should definitely get in IMO

 

Absolutely. A first ballot Hall of Famer. No doubt about it.