Roquon Smith ILB Georgia

[danlhart87]

Let's say the Colts grab him in the 1st Round. What is your reaction? 

[danlhart87]

Please close other threads mods

[thatonefan]

I completely agree if we trade down. He's a perfect fix for our linebacker corps-he's good in coverage and can still shut down the inside run.

[PeterBowman]

He was the mvp of the sec title game...was an absolute beast. ....he's someone to keep an eye on for sure.

[Defjamz26]

8 hours ago, thatonefan said:

I completely agree if we trade down. He's a perfect fix for our linebacker corps-he's good in coverage and can still shut down the inside run.

What’s with all this “if we trade back” talk on like every prospect? If you like a guy, take him. Forget about positional value (except for Kickers, Punterss, and FBs) and all that stuff.

[ty4atd]

I'd like him in a trade back as well if we stay put around #5 I think there are better players to help our team. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

What’s with all this “if we trade back” talk on like every prospect? If you like a guy, take him. Forget about positional value (except for Kickers, Punterss, and FBs) and all that stuff.

 

The term.....    and all that stuff, typically applies to inside linebackers.

 

He's a very good player.    A probable first round draft pick.

 

But top-10?      I'm not sure we're there yet......      We might get there in the spring,  but I don't think we're there yet with Smith.

 

So, at this point,  I'd prefer to trade back to take him.

 

That said,  the very idea of taking an inside linebacker in the first round with a top-10 pick I find to be absolutely mind boggling.

 

With needs at offensive line, pass rush, and elsewhere,  someone is thinking about taking an ILB with a top-10 overall pick?       That hurts my mind just thinking about it.....   

[ty4atd]

After OL, ILB is easily one of if not the Colts biggest needs. The D for years has been brutalized by any TE or RB who can catch and ILBs may not play as much as in the 90's but look at the Panthers without Kuechly or Dallas without Sean Lee. If they can stay on the field on 3rd down and nickle packages like Smith looks like he can the ILB is still a plenty important position. I wouldn't want him top 5 because Chubb, Key, Nelson would be better IMO but top 6-10 if they are gone that would be fine.

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The term.....    and all that stuff, typically applies to inside linebackers.

 

He's a very good player.    A probable first round draft pick.

 

But top-10?      I'm not sure we're there yet......      We might get there in the spring,  but I don't think we're there yet with Smith.

 

So, at this point,  I'd prefer to trade back to take him.

 

That said,  the very idea of taking an inside linebacker in the first round with a top-10 pick I find to be absolutely mind boggling.

 

With needs at offensive line, pass rush, and elsewhere,  someone is thinking about taking an ILB with a top-10 overall pick?       That hurts my mind just thinking about it.....   

Remember that there is FA and 6 other rounds after the 1st to draft players with. Fixing OL, pass rush, and other needs doesn’t just have to be done in the first round. 

[stitches]

Roquan is my favorite player in this year's draft as you might guess by my profile pic, but unfortunately, I think he's played his way out of our range. He needs to be caught smoking pot at the combine and get into a fight with a position coach or something for him to not get picked in the first IMO. As good as he is I'm not sure the positional value is there for us to pick him in the top 5. I would love for us to have him and I wouldn't protest the pick, but I think the likelihood is small. 

 

I had some hopes he might drop to us int he second but I doubt it at this point. 

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

Roquan is my favorite player in this year's draft as you might guess by my profile pic, but unfortunately, I think he's played his way out of our range. He needs to be caught smoking pot at the combine and get into a fight with a position coach or something for him to not get picked in the first IMO. As good as he is I'm not sure the positional value is there for us to pick him in the top 5. I would love for us to have him and I wouldn't protest the pick, but I think the likelihood is small. 

 

I had some hopes he might drop to us int he second but I doubt it at this point. 

Positional value is overrated. If he’s that good of a player (like Nelson, Barkley, etc...) and the staff is confident he’ll be a good player then they should take him. Grigson’s one good move as GM was taking a center in the 1st round, 19th overall. BPA regardless of position. The only real time positional value applies is to punters, kickers, and Fullbacks. You never draft those guys in any round unless it’s the 6th or 7th. Just ask the Bucs.

[UKColt13]

If we traded down to 15-20 then I'm okay with it. He's not a top 5 player though and that's more than likely where we're picking this year. Not sure I'd really want to trade down that far though.

[UKColt13]

On ‎03‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:54 AM, Defjamz26 said:

What’s with all this “if we trade back” talk on like every prospect? If you like a guy, take him. Forget about positional value (except for Kickers, Punterss, and FBs) and all that stuff.

 

Because if you take him at #5 when you could also get him at #12/13 along with a couple of other picks in a trade down, why wouldn't you? All comes down to confidence in who's going where. No one really knows at all yet. Let the combine and prodays go first and we'll have a better idea. Right now I can't see him being picked in the top 5. Big QB class this year. Top 10 maybe. But I haven't done much scouting yet.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, UKColt13 said:

 

Because if you take him at #5 when you could also get him at #12/13 along with a couple of other picks in a trade down, why wouldn't you? All comes down to confidence in who's going where. No one really knows at all yet. Let the combine and prodays go first and we'll have a better idea. Right now I can't see him being picked in the top 5. Big QB class this year. Top 10 maybe. But I haven't done much scouting yet.

The problem is you don’t know if: 1. A team will be willing to trade down 2. If a guy who’s available at 5 will be there at 12.

 

Not missing on a player that could be a difference Maker is more important than getting him but adding an extra pick.

[UKColt13]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

The problem is you don’t know if: 1. A team will be willing to trade down 2. If a guy who’s available at 5 will be there at 12.

 

Not missing on a player that could be a difference Maker is more important than getting him but adding an extra pick.

 

The draft is no guarantee when it comes to trading down. 

 

But to put the idea into practice. We are likely the #5 pick. Smith is good but even Kuechly wasn’t taken until #9. Right now I don’t have Smith rated as highly as Kuechly was. He’s very good and I think his range is 10-15. But at #5 I don’t want to reach. You take the best player available that makes sense. Especially as this is likely to be the last time we pick this high for a while. I’m not saying Smith isn’t good enough but I think there will be higher rated players that make sense at that point.

 

Moving away from Smith. If you are picking at around #20 I can see your point. If you have a player you like and you know is going to make difference but is rated as a fringe 1st rounder then pull the trigger. No problem. Mainly because from the 1st pick after every pick the draft gets more and more uncertain because every pick adds another variable.

 

But if you’re a top 5 pick then draft analysts can fairly accurately predict who’s getting picked where and by who (Mike Mayock should come with a spoiler alert warning on the broadcast) due to fewer variables. The higher you pick the more difficult it is to justify a reach with blue chip players on the board. 

 

Way too early to have any of these discussions properly yet though. I’ll get back to you post combine  

[bananabucket]

I would agree that he'd be a trade down target but man he is inching up higher every time I watch him.  One of my favorite players in the draft.  If we can get him or Quenton Nelson I'd be really happy.

[SP_21]

Smith is an excellent player no doubt but he is tiny by NFL standards. I think he gets drafted at the end of the 1st. Definitely not worth a top 10 pick

[krunk]

I have to watch more on Smith.  Average size to me as well so I have to see what other traits make him stand above the rest.

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, SP_21 said:

Smith is an excellent player no doubt but he is tiny by NFL standards. I think he gets drafted at the end of the 1st. Definitely not worth a top 10 pick

The average NFL linebacker is 6’0”. He’s listed at 6’1”

[DougDew]

He's worth a top 10 pick.  He's good.

 

Edit:  Gotta see the combine results first.

[DougDew]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:19 AM, stitches said:

Roquan is my favorite player in this year's draft as you might guess by my profile pic, but unfortunately, I think he's played his way out of our range. He needs to be caught smoking pot at the combine and get into a fight with a position coach or something for him to not get picked in the first IMO. As good as he is I'm not sure the positional value is there for us to pick him in the top 5. I would love for us to have him and I wouldn't protest the pick, but I think the likelihood is small. 

 

I had some hopes he might drop to us int he second but I doubt it at this point. 

Deion Jones was drafted in the second and I'm sure GMs are kicking themselves for passing on him in the first.  Smith seems like Shazier to me, and he's worth a top 10 pick, IMO. 

 

We'll see after the combine; however, on what his numbers are.

[stitches]

From PFF College football's latest podcast on Roquan Smith:

- 37 run stops... and wait for it... 0(ZERO) missed tackles against the run! Insane! Especially for a LB that flies all over the field.

-only 2 missed tackles against the pass. 

-over 560 snaps he's missed only 2 tackles!!!! 

-no.4 overall tackling efficiency in the country, no.5 tackling efficiency against the run in the country.

 

PFF thinks he goes round 1 for sure. 

 

[Bluefire4]

He's definitely a consideration but we can't trade down too far. I'm confident he will be a top ten pick in the draft.

[SP_21]

On 12/6/2017 at 8:53 PM, Defjamz26 said:

The average NFL linebacker is 6’0”. He’s listed at 6’1”

He's 220 pounds. That's my concern. 

[Defjamz26]

15 hours ago, SP_21 said:

He's 220 pounds. That's my concern. 

Frame probably has room for another 10-15 pounds which is all he needs.

[Dark Superman]

I always wanted the Colts to have that Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis like presence in the middle of the defense. Who would you guys compare Smith to in the NFL? I can't see the Colts taking him at three.

[ty4atd]

3 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

I always wanted the Colts to have that Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis like presence in the middle of the defense. Who would you guys compare Smith to in the NFL? I can't see the Colts taking him at three.

Lavonte David or Ryan Shazier would be my NFL comparisons. If we don't take him at 3 but he's still sitting there at say 15-16 I would love to trade up and get him, he could be the leader for our D for years.

[Dark Superman]

1 minute ago, ty4atd said:

Lavonte David or Ryan Shazier would be my NFL comparisons. If we don't take him at 3 but he's still sitting there at say 15-16 I would love to trade up and get him, he could be the leader for our D for years.

I like those comparisons.

[ty4atd]

As far as the "positional value goes" ILBs especially in a 3-4 are still very important and play more or less every down. Bostic played 85% of our snaps this season, Shazier until he got hurt played 100%, 4-3 guys like Bobby Wagner, Lavonte David or Kwon Alexander play every snap so it's still a very important position.

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, ty4atd said:

As far as the "positional value goes" ILBs especially in a 3-4 are still very important and play more or less every down. Bostic played 85% of our snaps this season, Shazier until he got hurt played 100%, 4-3 guys like Bobby Wagner, Lavonte David or Kwon Alexander play every snap so it's still a very important position.

 

Don't forget about the business side of the positional value. You have to gain money on your rookies to be able to pay your veterans. The guy who we will pick at 1/3, will earn cca 5 millions per year during his rookie contract. If he is an ILB, his contract will immediately make him the 7th highest paid inside linebacker in the league. The seventh. You practically loose him as a rookie, because he'll earn more than the majority of veteran linebackers. If he won't become a Luke Kueckly, just an very good to above average ILB, you will actually LOOSE money on his rookie contract. The has to become a Kuechly in order for you to gain money on his rookie contract, and even then, it wont be more than 4 to 7 millions per year.

 

On the other hand, if you draft a pass rusher, his 5 millions per year salary won't get him inside the top40 of the positional salary list. If he'll just become an average player, he'll still demand 8-10 mills as veteran, so you will still gain 3-5 mills on him. If he becomes an above average player, your financial gain go up to 8-10-12 milions. And if he'll become a Mack, Von Miller, Watt, you'll gain 15+ mills per year.

 

I'm talking about the top5. Maybe top10. Rookies salaries drop quickly by draft position. So, beginning with the second half of the first round, and down, the financial impact - and the difference between a first round and 3rd round pick - is irrelevant. You won't gain/loose relevant money if you pick your RB in the end of the first round or in the 3rd.

 

So either trade back, and pick whoever is the best, or if we pick at 1/3 we have to pick for a finantially important position. If we don't, we will pay the price later by not being able to retain / hire a veteran for a different position.

[ty4atd]

He would only be the 9th highest paid ILB but if you include 4-3 OLBs which are very similar then his contract isn't nearly as high. I'd prefer to trade down and draft Smith, but with the huge amount of space the Colts have if he's their BPA then money shouldn't stop them.

[NewColtsFan]

On 12/6/2017 at 5:53 PM, Defjamz26 said:

The average NFL linebacker is 6’0”. He’s listed at 6’1”

 

Where did you see that the average LB is 6' 0"??     I'm asking because I've never seen that before.

 

Are you talking about inside backers and not outside?    Or, are you saying LBs in general?

 

Is there a link for this?     Thanks.

 

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Where did you see that the average LB is 6' 0"??     I'm asking because I've never seen that before.

 

Are you talking about inside backers and not outside?    Or, are you saying LBs in general?

 

Is there a link for this?     Thanks.

 

This is what I found:

http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/page/show/292837-nfl-player-specs

 

I don't know how legit it is. This looks more like some benchmarks to be cleared rather than averages. 

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is what I found:

http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/page/show/292837-nfl-player-specs

 

I don't know how legit it is. This looks more like some benchmarks to be cleared rather than averages. 

 

Interesting....   most of those looked like minimum requirements to me.    I also noted the list was from 2011.    Still so much of that seemed way too small, that's why I was guessing minimums....

 

Thanks...

 

[CopenhagenColt]

Excellent player. But no way in top 3. Not even in top 10.

Someone will land him in the bottom of the first and be very happy about it. Maybe he'll be there in top of second round, if so you grab him.

[DougDew]

I was pretty high on him.  He did well in the NCCG, but he does look a bit small by NFL ILB standards...at least by my eye test.  Still, he seems to tackle well and with authority.  Not top 15 but probably top 20.

[The Peytonator]

I would definitely like him in the first, provided we trade down. I'd expect him to go around 15th overall. I'm not digging anyone with our 3rd overall pick, but assuming we trade down there are a lot of quality options that can be had. I like the idea of trading with the Jets and then trading again to the 12-15 range. I can't make up my mind on Smith, Nelson, and Hurst, but if we came away with any of those three I'd be stoked. Nelson probably gets overdrafted a little bit by being the only lineman worthy of a top ten pick. 

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Where did you see that the average LB is 6' 0"??     I'm asking because I've never seen that before.

 

Are you talking about inside backers and not outside?    Or, are you saying LBs in general?

 

Is there a link for this?     Thanks.

 

I was referring to inside backers. But that info I’ve looked up. Guys like Wagner, David, etc.. are all around that height. Keuchly is an anomaly. 

[ty4atd]

If they did trade down with the Jets I would take him at #6 unless Chubb or Fitzpatrick fell. Last season RBs had 69 catches for 718 yards and TEs had 63 catches for 747 and that's with the Buffalo blizzard game where nobody threw the ball. Indy needs to be able to defend better against receiving TEs and RBs or QBs will always have quick easy dump-off passes against us. 

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:19 AM, KING. said:

I always wanted the Colts to have that Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis like presence in the middle of the defense. Who would you guys compare Smith to in the NFL? I can't see the Colts taking him at three.

3 is way too high for smith.