Most disappointing colts in the last 20 yr?

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

No way can  you put Gore on this list -- dude has been one of the few solid and consistent players for us since he's been here.

 

 

I would take Vontae Davis off there, he was a stud for us except this year.  Had 2-3 years there where he was top 5 in league.

 

I'd add the following names of players we drafted: Josh Chapman, Montori Hughes (thought 1 of these 2 would be our big man in the middle), D'Juon Smith, Jonathan Newsome (could have been good if not for legal issues), Hugh Thornton and Khaled Holmes (thought they were going to solve our OL problems to some extent), Ben Ijalana (he's doing OK now, I think with Jets but he certainly didn't pan out as a solid 2nd rounder for us), Jerry Hughes and Pat Angerer (1st and 2nd round LBers that never panned out), Mike Pollak (2nd round C that busted), Anthony Gonzalez (1st round RB that busted), Tony Ugoh (in hindsight that 2007 draft was one of the worst ever for us).

 

Some players we signed: Ricky Jean-Francois, Laron Landry, Tom Zbikowski, Samson Satele, Donald Thomas, Greg Toler, Arthur Jones, Trent Cole.

 

 

Grigson is worse.  During his tenure our first round draft picks were Luck (a hit, who should have been surrounded with a solid OL),  Bjoern Werner (a bust), Trent Richardson (a bust), Phillip Dorsett (a bust), and Ryan Kelly (if he can't stay healthy, he's on pace to be a bust, too).

 

Going through our first and 2nd round picks from 1997-2017 we have had the following be better than average (some were great):

 

1997 - Tarik Glenn (R1), Adam Meadows (R2)

1998 - Peyton Manning (R1)

1999 - Edge (R1), Mike Peterson (R2)

2000 - 

2001 - Reggie Wayne (R1)

2002 - Dwight Freeney (R1)

2003 - Dallas Clark (R1)

2004 - Bob Sanders (R1)

2005 - 

2006- Joseph Addai (R1)

2007 -

2008 - 

2009 - 

2010 - 

2011 -Castonzo (R1)

2012 - Luck (R1)

2013-

2014 - Mewhord (R2)

2015 - 

2016 - Kelly (R1 - if healthy)

2017 - Hooker (R1 - if healthy)

 

The following were worse than what you'd want from a 1st or 2nd rounder:

1997 - 

1998 - Jerome Pathon (R2)

1999 - 

2000 - Rob Morris (R1), Marcus Washington (R2 - arguable here he may have had a good year or 2)

2001 - Idrees Bashir (R2)

2002 - Larry Triplett (R2)

2003 - Mike Doss (R2)

2004 - No first rounder

2005 - Marlin Jackson (R1), Kelvin Hayden (R2) -- both are arguable, but they didn't come near turning into a consistently dominant CB duo for us

2006 - Tim Jennings (R2)

2007 - Anthony Gonzalez (R1), Tony Ugoh (R2)

2008 - No first round, Mike Pollak (r2)

2009 - Donald Brown (R1), Fili Moala (R2)

2010 - Jerry Hughes (R1), Pat Angerer (R2)

2011 - Ben Ijalana (R2)

2012 - Coby Fleener (R2) - arguable, but he was soft

2013 - Bjoern Werner (R1), No R2

2014 - No R1 (T. Rich)

2015 - Phillip Dorsett (R1), No R2

2016 - TJ Green (R2)

2017 - Quincy Wilson (R2)

 

So we have had 14 good (or what you want from a 1st or 2nd rounder) and 27 not so good (or less than what you want from a first or 2nd rounder), over the past 2 decades.

 

Tim Jennings may have been a bust for us but ultimately ended up being a real good player for the Bears in their system.  Saying Green and Wilson are bust at this point is too premature.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Tim Jennings may have been a bust for us but ultimately ended up being a real good player for the Bears in their system.  Saying Green and Wilson are bust at this point is too premature.

 

Tim Jennings was a bust for us... yes he played well for the Bears, but he didn't really do anything in Indy.

 

TJ Green was bad last year and not much better this year... Wilson hasn't been on the field really at all.  Yes, too premature, but ideally you'd see production from 1-2 rounders out of the gate.  I hope they turn it around.. even if they do, we still have 16 good players vs. 25 bad players in rounds 1 and 2 over past two decades.  Not very impressive.  Factor in the time since Grigs has been here, we've had 1 very good pick who is hurt because we've never built a line (Luck), a pretty good pick who may be retiring soon (Mewhort), and 2 guys that look good if healthy (Kelly and Hooker).  During that same time we've had a mediocre guy (Fleener), a bust (Werner and no 2nd round in that draft, I guess Vontae was a solid pick-up for that trade), a bust (T. Rich for trade of 1st round), a bust (Dorsett with no round 2), and two guys who haven't done anything (Green and Wilson).

 

Wonder why we've been on the decline for the past several years -- part of the reason is all of Grigs bad draft picks (early and late) and signings.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Tim Jennings was a bust for us... yes he played well for the Bears, but he didn't really do anything in Indy.

 

TJ Green was bad last year and not much better this year... Wilson hasn't been on the field really at all.  Yes, too premature, but ideally you'd see production from 1-2 rounders out of the gate.  I hope they turn it around.. even if they do, we still have 16 good players vs. 25 bad players in rounds 1 and 2 over past two decades.  Not very impressive.  Factor in the time since Grigs has been here, we've had 1 very good pick who is hurt because we've never built a line (Luck), a pretty good pick who may be retiring soon (Mewhort), and 2 guys that look good if healthy (Kelly and Hooker).  During that same time we've had a mediocre guy (Fleener), a bust (Werner and no 2nd round in that draft, I guess Vontae was a solid pick-up for that trade), a bust (T. Rich for trade of 1st round), a bust (Dorsett with no round 2), and two guys who haven't done anything (Green and Wilson).

 

Wonder why we've been on the decline for the past several years -- part of the reason is all of Grigs bad draft picks (early and late) and signings.

I am not disputing your findings or statements. After looking at your list I just pointed out a couple of things that have yet to be determined.

It's not unusual for defensive rookie to make an impact in their first couple of years. Most of the time they have to earn their spot on the starting roster. Especially in the backfield on the defense.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am not disputing your findings or statements. After looking at your list I just pointed out a couple of things that have yet to be determined.

It's not unusual for defensive rookie to make an impact in their first couple of years. Most of the time they have to earn their spot on the starting roster. Especially in the backfield on the defense.

They do say CB is one of the hardest positions to play as a rookie.  

Green does have athleticism, no denying that, and he's still very new to defense (started college as a WR).  Wilson has been a little 'nicked up' according to Ballard, so we may see improvement from him, too.

 

Among Hairston, Melvin, Desir, and the hopes of Wilson and Green panning out -- plus Geathers, Hooker and Farley at S -- we may have a very solid secondary next year (if they can stay on the darn field).

[Stephen]

Anthony Gonzalez Trent Richardson Trent Cole art Jones tj green  josh chapman derrick rogers john boyett

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

They do say CB is one of the hardest positions to play as a rookie.  

Green does have athleticism, no denying that, and he's still very new to defense (started college as a WR).  Wilson has been a little 'nicked up' according to Ballard, so we may see improvement from him, too.

 

Among Hairston, Melvin, Desir, and the hopes of Wilson and Green panning out -- plus Geathers, Hooker and Farley at S -- we may have a very solid secondary next year (if they can stay on the darn field).

Hopefully we get in that position.

Your other points about Grigson couldn't have been said any better.

[Coltsman1788]

On 12/4/2017 at 5:59 PM, crazycolt1 said:

My you have a short memory.

No I don't.  I remember far worse times in the 80's and early 90's but those seasons had no expectation attached to them.  The Luck era has largely been squandered because of the 3 individuals that I named. Three years of Luck's prime utterly wasted.

[Coltsman1788]

On 12/4/2017 at 12:05 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

First 3 years were actually Very Good, if not Great because we overachieved. So the Luck era hasn't been a total failure. It took Irsay/Polian/Manning 9 seasons before they won a SB. Perspective.

Peyton was not as banged up as Luck is after his first 6 seasons though. For as good as the first three seasons seemed we are a long ways removed from that now and the future remains unclear given the uncertainty of Luck's status.

[buccolts]

Landry was mighty disappointing.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 12/1/2017 at 8:05 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

5. Corey Simon

 

Yeah, considering how little we got out of Simon for how much we paid him... he would be my pick.

 

Dungy said that the 2005 team was the most talented he coached and Simon was supposed to put us over the top.

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 12/3/2017 at 11:20 AM, dudeski said:

corey simon was fantastic in 2005

 

 

what were you watching

 

On 12/4/2017 at 5:37 PM, dudeski said:

football

 

i was watching football.  look what larry tripplett did that year.  there is more to football than what you see on the stat sheet.  i highly doubt you will understand that though

 

?????  Dude... what are you on?  Did you bring enough to share with the rest of us?

 

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone with some of these posts...

 

"Corey Simon was fantastic."

"Peyton Manning was a disappointment."

"Bob Sanders was a disappointment."

 

 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Peyton was not as banged up as Luck is after his first 6 seasons though. For as good as the first three seasons seemed we are a long ways removed from that now and the future remains unclear given the uncertainty of Luck's status.

Peyton was a totally different type of QB. He had the ability to throw timing routes to receivers who knew how to catch those timing routes. Luck has never had that. Peyton also had one of the quickest deliveries in history, thus all the records. That is the number one reason he stayed as healthy as long as he did. He didn't take the hits and punishment of the average QB.

Luck is a QB with a linebackers mentality. It worked in college but not in the pros.

[Coltsman1788]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:42 PM, crazycolt1 said:

Peyton was a totally different type of QB. He had the ability to throw timing routes to receivers who knew how to catch those timing routes. Luck has never had that. Peyton also had one of the quickest deliveries in history, thus all the records. That is the number one reason he stayed as healthy as long as he did. He didn't take the hits and punishment of the average QB.

Luck is a QB with a linebackers mentality. It worked in college but not in the pros.

That's all true CC1.  Still Luck's punishment can't all be attributed to his linebacker mentality though it is a significant factor.  Not saying that you were doing that CC1...just making a clarification.  The Colts haven't done a very good job putting a decent offensive line around him.  In the Manning years, we had blue collar guys like Saturday and Tarik Glenn.  So although Peyton took a lot of the pressure off his O-line with his mind, quick release and good decision making, the O line of that era had more talent than the current regime has been able to put together.  Granted... Griggson did try to address the O=line both through free agency and the draft...unfortunately he was unsuccessful partly due to injury and partly due to talent not really meshing as hoped.  As an organization, we have to figure this out if we have aspirations for a brighter future with a healthy Luck.

[horseshoecrabs]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:19 PM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

?????  Dude... what are you on?  Did you bring enough to share with the rest of us?

 

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone with some of these posts...

 

"Corey Simon was fantastic."

"Peyton Manning was a disappointment."

"Bob Sanders was a disappointment."

 

 

Bob Sanders was a disappointment not because of his talent but because he didn't stay on the field most of his short career.

[ThorstenDenmark]

Ryan Grigson should be nr one