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The most sacked QB this year. You guessed it.


NannyMcafee

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Its not the Oline.  Its everything.

 

Brissett shows us why certain things are needed to be an elite NFL QB.  He is slow footed and fairly immobile.  He doesn't seem to feel pressure.  He has a slow release.  He holds the ball.  All of this contributes to sacks, and all of these things GMs look at when evaluating QB talent.  (As far as a QB, his decision making and accuracy is pretty good, which is positive)

 

No receiver outside of TY is worth a darn...ever since a healthy Reggie Wayne.  Correctly, Grigson saw this and tried to fix it with Dorsett.  The thinking was sound.  The player did not live up to expectation. 

 

The offensive scheme is outdated and calls for too many long developing plays, which is the main reason why both Brissett and Luck get sacked a lot. 

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1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

 

Unless it's indeed a rare talent, I agree. The Colts've already spent enough - 2 first rounds, 1 second round and 2 third rounds and some later rounds picks - on their oline. That should be enough. If they keep spending picks on the oline, they will never build a decent defense (which lacks draft picks spent there big time).

 

Coach these players up. Find complementary pieces if necessary in later rounds. Or add a free agent if there's someone worth to bring in.

This would be true if the Grigson era did not exist and we got good talent anywhere minus a handful.  AC and Kelly are both starters and our 2 best.  Mewhort when healthy is good.  There are the 2 first rounders and the 1 second.  After this the talent selected was not the best to be honest.  You can grab two guys in FA if Jack is for sure looking like constant injury.  Grab 2 and draft 1 in the 2nd or 3rd round.  This would allow for a good impact if the talent was evaluated correctly, and the scheme is beneficial.  Philbin has been going down hill...along with this offensive system.

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1 hour ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

This isn’t true according to sports science Luck has a .33 sec release same as Aaron Rodgers. He holds on to the ball waiting for routes to open up. We need to go back to west coast for Andrew. 

So that explains why Luck and now Bissett are the most hit and sacked QBs in history?  As far as Rogers he is also one of the most hit and sacked QBs and it now on IR.

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56 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So that explains why Luck and now Bissett are the most hit and sacked QBs in history?  As far as Rogers he is also one of the most hit and sacked QBs and it now on IR.

Luck has great release time. I think if you change the offense scheme to west coast you will see less hits on Luck and the o-line will look better. There is a big difference between release time and holding on to the ball too long. 

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1 hour ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

Luck has great release time. I think if you change the offense scheme to west coast you will see less hits on Luck and the o-line will look better. There is a big difference between release time and holding on to the ball too long. 

To change the offensive scheme you have to have the players to do it. We have had how many starting offensive linemen over the last few years? It's hard to get anything consistent when the coordinators don't even know who the starters are.

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6 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

...I'm confused you say there is no helping them but acknowledge that there is a severe scheme flaw with free runners...

 

I have watched.  Plenty might I add and we employ some of the most irrational blocking schemes that some of the best lineman in history would have issues with.  I'll need to find the clip but one of the favorite gems for Indy is to pull a G 3 gaps and the center and G to slide over with the tackle on an island... usually against a standard alignment! It makes no sense!  By the time the Guard pulls either the Tackle has been overrun by 2 rushers or the DT on the initial gap is so far in the backfield that the pulling guard is literally behind him.  Frustrating to no end to watch...

 

Oh and the part the seas scheme we do is absurd.  Lineman are "supposed" to be taught that a pocket is the best thing for a QB.  As long as the front of the QB is free the sides can come around all day and the QB can step up.  Routinely we will have a T get a chip from the TE and instead of taking advantage of the chip and setting tight the T will widen about 2 players away from the G.  So either the T here is being taught really really bad.  Or it's a terrible scheme where the G needs to kickstep as much as the tackle to compensate.  Either way the coaches are asking to much from both players.  

 

With the same train of thought though I've also seen clips where the oline create an excellent pocket for Luck and instead of "climbing" and throw he tries to laterally escape and throw in space.  That again is not good fundamentals which would drastically make this oline look better.  

 

Here's the thing.

 

Is it a scheme flaw or is it guys blowing their assignments?

 

Is it a combination of both?  I lean toward "a combination of both."

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44 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Here's the thing.

 

Is it a scheme flaw or is it guys blowing their assignments?

 

Is it a combination of both?  I lean toward "a combination of both."

If a team consistently cannot execute, the coaching staff is the problem.  Good coaches get a team ready for Sunday.  Any schemes that are in the game plan are useless if the roster consistently cannot execute them.  A great coach puts his players in position to win through practices where the players are given a game plan that is within their skill set.  The more each player's role is "within his wheelhouse", the more successful he will be. 

 

Some coaches try to make a player do stuff he's not very good at. Other coaches plan to use the player's strengths.

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I seriously wonder what Luck’s family is thinking...???  Seeing Brissett get slaughtered like Andrew has been his entire career can’t be building much trust & confidence between Luck’s people and the organization.  I see no way we can bring Chuck & his staff back next year and expect Luck & his handlers to trust in the organization...  It’s time to go all out on the OLine & more importantly the coaching & scheme.  Andrew deserves it. 

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6 minutes ago, Roger said:

If a team consistently cannot execute, the coaching staff is the problem.  Good coaches get a team ready for Sunday.  Any schemes that are in the game plan are useless if the roster consistently cannot execute them.  A great coach puts his players in position to win through practices where the players are given a game plan that is within their skill set.  The more each player's role is "within his wheelhouse", the more successful he will be. 

 

Some coaches try to make a player do stuff he's not very good at. Other coaches plan to use the player's strengths.

Good coaching can only accomplish so much. If the player isn't good enough or smart enough to understand  what he is being taught then the best coach in the world can't help him.  He just can't do it.  It appears we have a problem in drafting good offensive lineman.  Costanzo was Polian and Kelly was an easy pick.  The rest have not been able to hold up.  Even Ballard blew it on Banner.  Get two new FA starters in here and solve the problem.  At least we know they can get the job done. 

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Good coaching can only accomplish so much. If the player isn't good enough or smart enough to understand  what he is being taught then the best coach in the world can't help him.  He just can't do it.  It appears we have a problem in drafting good offensive lineman.  Costanzo was Polian and Kelly was an easy pick.  The rest have not been able to hold up.  Even Ballard blew it on Banner.  Get two new FA starters in here and solve the problem.  At least we know they can get the job done. 

Have you ever noticed that good coaches will cut or trade players that don't perform? Regardless of where they were drafted.  This regime hasn't done a good job of coaching anyone.  Sure, some individuals with great talent may excel.  But oftentimes, they're freestyling.

 

The right coach could get many of these same players to do better.  Sure, some would be cut or traded.  You can keep trying the same thing with the same bad coaches and different players. Or you can fire all the coaches and bring in some guy who will play them to their strengths and coach them up.

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On 11/27/2017 at 1:54 PM, NannyMcafee said:

Jacoby Brissett. 

 

For those who don't want to go oline in round one, should reconsider their perspective. 

 

Yeah hopefully a new OC/scheme, and a combination of the draft/free agency should change it for the better???  Hopefully, maybe?? No, yeah nooo??  Nooo, yeah...  I don’t know.  

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3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Good coaching can only accomplish so much. If the player isn't good enough or smart enough to understand  what he is being taught then the best coach in the world can't help him.  He just can't do it.  It appears we have a problem in drafting good offensive lineman.  Costanzo was Polian and Kelly was an easy pick.  The rest have not been able to hold up.  Even Ballard blew it on Banner.  Get two new FA starters in here and solve the problem.  At least we know they can get the job done. 

hard to draft o-line draft is a crapshoot and o-line rookies from college face a new world in the nfl, i say sign proven elite free agents for the o-line, draft is not working for our o-line

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11 hours ago, Roger said:

If a team consistently cannot execute, the coaching staff is the problem.  Good coaches get a team ready for Sunday.  Any schemes that are in the game plan are useless if the roster consistently cannot execute them.  A great coach puts his players in position to win through practices where the players are given a game plan that is within their skill set.  The more each player's role is "within his wheelhouse", the more successful he will be. 

 

Some coaches try to make a player do stuff he's not very good at. Other coaches plan to use the player's strengths.

 

ND has a QB this year that has every single physical trait you would want in a future NFL QB.  Arm strength, accuracy, an incredible set of wheels, good size, etc.  In sum, the kid can play.  He has had brilliant games, but he has also had moments where he literally has failed to complete a 2-yard shovel pass.

 

He's about a 50% passer right now because he's failing to execute things on the field that the coaching staff has certainly coached him on.  Footwork, pre-snap recognition and reads, etc.  It's mental for him at this point, because on 3rd down, he is a mind-boggling 60+% passer.

 

That's just unheard of to be that good on 3rd down but 50% on the easy, move-the-stick/stay-on-schedule throws on 1st and 2nd down.

 

This past Saturday, the aforementioned QB threw a terrible pick because he failed to notice a CB playing press pre-snap.  He failed to account for that player, and later admitted to it.

 

Our OL gets beat in all sorts of ways.  The vast majority of the time, missing free rushers is on the players, pure and simple.  Even if your protection schemes are questionable, an intelligent OL should be able to identify and account for their assignments.  Occasional blown assignments happen.  The other guys get paid too.

 

Now, scheme is a problem too.  There have been times where the Colts leave a TE (Doyle) 1-on-1, no-help, with the opposing team's best pass rusher.  That is not the player's fault, as the player is not being put in a good position by the scheme in that instance.

 

11 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Good coaching can only accomplish so much. If the player isn't good enough or smart enough to understand  what he is being taught then the best coach in the world can't help him.  He just can't do it. 

 

Yep.

 

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1 hour ago, zibby43 said:

 

ND has a QB this year that has every single physical trait you would want in a future NFL QB.  Arm strength, accuracy, an incredible set of wheels, good size, etc.  In sum, the kid can play.  He has had brilliant games, but he has also had moments where he literally has failed to complete a 2-yard shovel pass.

 

He's about a 50% passer right now because he's failing to execute things on the field that the coaching staff has certainly coached him on.  Footwork, pre-snap recognition and reads, etc.  It's mental for him at this point, because on 3rd down, he is a mind-boggling 60+% passer.

 

That's just unheard of to be that good on 3rd down but 50% on the easy, move-the-stick/stay-on-schedule throws on 1st and 2nd down.

 

This past Saturday, the aforementioned QB threw a terrible pick because he failed to notice a CB playing press pre-snap.  He failed to account for that player, and later admitted to it.

 

Our OL gets beat in all sorts of ways.  The vast majority of the time, missing free rushers is on the players, pure and simple.  Even if your protection schemes are questionable, an intelligent OL should be able to identify and account for their assignments.  Occasional blown assignments happen.  The other guys get paid too.

 

Now, scheme is a problem too.  There have been times where the Colts leave a TE (Doyle) 1-on-1, no-help, with the opposing team's best pass rusher.  That is not the player's fault, as the player is not being put in a good position by the scheme in that instance.

 

 

Yep.

 

I don't disagree with the gist of your post.  But - you are using one player, ND QB to support your argument that I am wrong.

 

Note that I said team.  Individual players are one thing. An entire team is another.  Our entire team cannot execute.  The successes we have are due to individual talent, often "freestyling".  Every player at this level is talented, but his individual talents are nothing unless harnessed in a team effort.

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On 11/28/2017 at 10:24 AM, JColts72 said:

I think 62 is the Colts season record of being sacked. Will break that with ease.

 

That was when Harbaugh got his nose broke and Marshall Faulk had a dismal 3. something yds per carry.....There had been some changes to the O-line and the blocking was terrible.....

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39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Only if he can play another position than center. We have Kelly who is a perennial all star when healthy.

Again I think he was just saying that was a top o-line guy that did go to another team in Free Agency.  You mentioned it never happens and that was his rebuttal.  

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1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

Again I think he was just saying that was a top o-line guy that did go to another team in Free Agency.  You mentioned it never happens and that was his rebuttal.  

Naturally there is going to be an exception but those players are few and far between. We picked up Saturday from a hardware store and that was a once in a QBs lifetime deal.

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Naturally there is going to be an exception but those players are few and far between. We picked up Saturday from a hardware store and that was a once in a QBs lifetime deal.

In Free Agency there is typically always going to be one top guy for the o-line.  This is mainly because the current team either can't or does not want to pay them.  You have had many in the past.  A few last year.  Osemele 2 years ago.  It is just up to the teams out there to see fit to spend that money.  I would love to get Norwell or Pugh.  They are going to command somewhere around 10.5 to 12 million per year though.  Zeitler last year got like 12 something per year.  Draft allows for a cheaper option but not an immediate fix in most cases.  Spend money protecting Luck should be key though.

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2 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

In Free Agency there is typically always going to be one top guy for the o-line.  This is mainly because the current team either can't or does not want to pay them.  You have had many in the past.  A few last year.  Osemele 2 years ago.  It is just up to the teams out there to see fit to spend that money.  I would love to get Norwell or Pugh.  They are going to command somewhere around 10.5 to 12 million per year though.  Zeitler last year got like 12 something per year.  Draft allows for a cheaper option but not an immediate fix in most cases.  Spend money protecting Luck should be key though.

We haven't seen what Ballard's tendencies are so we don't know if he is going to spend that type of money on a linemen.

Polian didn't till Manning pretty much told him to pay Saturday. IMO spent the money no matter because if we don't protect our QB we might as well keep Luck on IR the rest of his career. :dunno:

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

We haven't seen what Ballard's tendencies are so we don't know if he is going to spend that type of money on a linemen.

Polian didn't till Manning pretty much told him to pay Saturday. IMO spent the money no matter because if we don't protect our QB we might as well keep Luck on IR the rest of his career. :dunno:

To your last point, this is why I can see him spending the money.  If you have to spend more but have him standing up and clean you have a better chance at winning.  Then the draft is D focused to help build a true balanced team.  Luck healthy and a little time allows us to again be a top 5 offense.  You build a D to be close to top 10...good things will follow!

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6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Naturally there is going to be an exception but those players are few and far between. We picked up Saturday from a hardware store and that was a once in a QBs lifetime deal.

The point is that top O-line players do hit FA. 

 

Considering the amount of issues we've had with that line, it should be a no-brainer, that when top-level O-line players hit the FA, you go after them. Hard. 

It's rare that there are "plug and play" O-line players in the draft, while there is always and abundance of RB's, WR's, CB's etc. 
So spend the money where they matter the most.

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6 minutes ago, CopenhagenColt said:

The point is that top O-line players do hit FA. 

 

Considering the amount of issues we've had with that line, it should be a no-brainer, that when top-level O-line players hit the FA, you go after them. Hard. 

It's rare that there are "plug and play" O-line players in the draft, while there is always and abundance of RB's, WR's, CB's etc. 
So spend the money where they matter the most.

Top level offensive linemen are hard to find, period. Why do you think 90% or retained? You want an example? Dallas. In two years they went from one of the top offensive lines in the league and look at them now. That's how fast it can turn around.

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6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Top level offensive linemen are hard to find, period. Why do you think 90% or retained? You want an example? Dallas. In two years they went from one of the top offensive lines in the league and look at them now. That's how fast it can turn around.

Did I say they weren't hard to find?

Only underlines, that when you have severe issues with your O-line and your franchis QB is getting killed on a career threatening level game after game, you go after them when they're available.

It's really not that hard.

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1 minute ago, CopenhagenColt said:

Did I say they weren't hard to find?

Only underlines, that when you have severe issues with your O-line and your franchis QB is getting killed on a career threatening level game after game, you go after them when they're available.

It's really not that hard.

It is harder that you think. When a top notch offensive linemen becomes available there are 32 teams going after them. We might luck out this off season because of the cap room we will have but the Colts by far will not be the only team going after them.

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1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

Chud deserves 50% or more of the blame if you ask me. Everyone on the planet knows the Colts o line is bad besides him apparently. 

Those drives where we run right up the gut twice to set up 3rd and 8 and then a 7 step drop for a 'death' sack on Jacoby are always fun to watch.

 

He looks like a zebra being eaten by 5 lions on National Geographic.

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