For those of you who are SO against taking a RB in 1st take a look at Cowboys ....

[richard pallo]

I think Ballard is going to try and give the OL a major upgrade through FA.  Pugh, Norwell maybe both.  If he gets one of the premier OL available then I think Barkley is in play with our 1st. pick along with the ER Chubb.  Barkley would be a fantastic addition and could help us out immediately.  Many have him rated the BPA.  I don't think Ballard would pass on him but he probably won't be there when we pick.  Our draft will all depend on what we do in FA.  Our offense really misses a franchise RB.  You can see Zeke is special behind that OL.  The fact that Zeke makes Dak look better just reinforces how important a franchise RB can be.  The other Dallas backs look ordinary.  Brissett has proven he is an NFL starter.  It's amazing how much he has done without the benefit of a training camp or preseason.  I think he will be in high demand this off season.  IMO he will be auditioning for the Bills QB position when the Colts visit Buffalo in a few weeks.  They are very unhappy with T. Taylor and if Brissett performs well, especially in cold weather outdoors, I can see them trading for him.  I can actually see the Bills giving us their first for him.  I am hoping Brissett finishes strong especially in Buffalo.  Ballard is going to get some serious offers for him IMO.

[Superman]

If Zeke maintains a high level of play for the next four years, he'll be an outlier. A first round pick should be a foundational building block for the better part of a decade. 

 

And then there's value above replacement, and Zeke was taken four-plus rounds ahead of Jordan Howard in the same draft. Two-plus rounds ahead of where Kareem Hunt went in this year's draft. It would help the Cowboys if they had a replacement level RB to take Zeke's place, but they have a bunch of underwhelming guys who make up a below average backfield.

 

Assuming Zeke stays healthy and has an average duration physical prime, I don't think the Cowboys will regret their pick. But I don't think they maximized value, and I don't think they did a good job of adding backups.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think Ballard is going to try and give the OL a major upgrade through FA.  Pugh, Norwell maybe both

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif

 

Although, I think the Giants keep Pugh. 

 

And that's about all we agree on that post. Your draft shouldn't depend on free agency, that's a needs-based approach to drafting. And the Colts shouldn't even think of parting with Brissett until Luck's recovery is complete and they have another backup QB they can rely on. Brissett should be a Colt in 2018.

[WERC82]

guards are the key to running and running is the key to protecting. RB and two guards via draft or FA.

[21isSuperman]

33 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

bell would have been worth a first round pick.  he wasnt taken there, but in hindsight it would have been worth it.  same is probably true for hunt.  

 

i agree with the OP about running backs and so do real GMs around the league. 

 

the past few drafts have seen at least one back taken early, and guys like elliot and fournette were worth their draft spot

Just because a player outplays his draft spot, doesn't mean anything about the position in general.  The whole point is that those players weren't evaluated as being worth first round picks, and if real GMs around the league thought those players were worth first round picks, they would have been first round picks.  Furthermore, taking a player in the first round can be due to a variety of factors.  Sebastian Janikowski was a first round pick; does that mean kickers are worth first round picks?  I did some analysis on this and came to the conclusion that RBs aren't worth first round picks

 

 

[twfish]

To talk about Barkley, I believe he can be a better back than zeke. He's got everything to be a star and I think going to the right team he could put up YUGE numbers.... but this whole topic is about as big of a waste of time as us thinking about getting Cmack last year. The amount of threads on the subject were ridiculous and it was the same thing with zeke 2 years ago. People are going to get all heated up about it but come draft time they aren't sitting there for us. My guess is one of three things. If we are in the top 5 for picks he will get taken before us, or there will be a run on QB's and we will trade back with a team and get more picks, or continuing with the line of thinking of a run on QB's a defensive blue chip or stud o-line men will fall into our lap and both are more important than a RB. Plus personally if Chubb last until the 2nd I'll take him but this is gonna be a pretty well stacked RB draft this year.

[DougDew]

Hopefully, some team will want to trade up to our pick to get their franchise RB.

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Winning will do nothing for us, if we go on a magical run and win next 6 make the playoffs I will be cheering the hardest...Not gonna happen though...We need Saquon Barkley he is the next A.P, Zeke, Barry Sanders,  franchise changing type RB!! Get Barkley Rd 1, address other issues in rds 2-7, and with the mountain of Cap space we will have..Barkley and a legitimate NFL coach we will be 13-3 next year with a bye PERIOD, with Luck or Brissett...I personally don't think Luck will ever be the same again, and I see enormous potential in Brissett..Flip luck for assets while it's still possible, bring in Harbaugh or Gruden and draft BARKLEY..Easy as pie...

And who will block for this stud running back. How about you go back and look at all the first rd and high draft picks they spent on the OL so that taking a "stud" rb made sense. We are no where near the point where a stud rb is going to make or break our season. Would I love one...sure...will running the ball help Luck...of course but I think most people would agree investing in building that OL first would be prudent...that way you get the most out of your young RB. If you go RB first and then take 3 years to build that OL then your back is almost out of his prime and ready for his second contract before your ready to take that next step......and as far as Barkley goes.....he hasn't shown the consistency yet to me to say this guy is great....he has regularly been shut down in big games for Penn State....he tries for those home runs instead of grinding out the yards sometimes. Needless to say I think there are better backs to be had.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif

 

Although, I think the Giants keep Pugh. 

 

And that's about all we agree on that post. Your draft shouldn't depend on free agency, that's a needs-based approach to drafting. And the Colts shouldn't even think of parting with Brissett until Luck's recovery is complete and they have another backup QB they can rely on. Brissett should be a Colt in 2018.

I think it's obvious we did use needs when we drafted last year.  Our first three picks were Hooker,Wilson and Basham and all of their positions were defensive needs.  You really don't think needs had anything to do with those picks.  Just coincidence.  You have to look at the players available at the time of your pick and the needs of the roster.  I think that's what Ballard will do.  He won't trade Brissett if he has concerns about Luck but I think Luck will be good to go.  Personally I think they or Luck himself rushed the rehab program but that's just me.  I think he needed more time to recover.  Everyone is different.   Finding a quality veteran backup shouldn't be that difficult so if Luck is looking better by draft time I can see Ballard entertaining offers.  

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif

 

Although, I think the Giants keep Pugh. 

 

And that's about all we agree on that post. Your draft shouldn't depend on free agency, that's a needs-based approach to drafting. And the Colts shouldn't even think of parting with Brissett until Luck's recovery is complete and they have another backup QB they can rely on. Brissett should be a Colt in 2018.

Yep...FA to me is like putting a band aid on a problem. Sure you can find yourself a steal and center piece for your team once in awhile but it isn't the norm. You draft for the future and hope those players can contribute as soon as possible though. We should definitely be investing in the OL even if we get some free agents for the line. It likely will take a couple years to develop that talent and if it comes along sooner then we can always shift people around. We always have injuries so deepening that OL has to be a priority. I think it is getting slowly better but it did last year too....and then it rebooted. Clearly though we have to have a long term outlook as Costanzo is probably in his last year with us and we have struggled to find consistency at the tackle position. I think it is more likely we spend money at the WR spot this off-season as well....there should be some good players on the market that could quickly influence this offense (Landry, Jefferies, D. Adams, M. Bryant, Watkins, Pryor amongst possibly others). I think its clear we lack a true #2 or compliment to TY...and while we probably draft a WR I would expect that in the later rounds. Its going to be interesting to see how we use our money...we have quite a bit...but I don't see it effecting the draft much like you said.

[runthepost]

Barkley will be great but can’t get a back when you have no line to block

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think it's obvious we did use needs when we drafted last year.  Our first three picks were Hooker,Wilson and Basham and all of their positions were defensive needs.  You really don't think needs had anything to do with those picks.  Just coincidence.  You have to look at the players available at the time of your pick and the needs of the roster.  I think that's what Ballard will do.  He won't trade Brissett if he has concerns about Luck but I think Luck will be good to go.  Personally I think they or Luck himself rushed the rehab program but that's just me.  I think he needed more time to recover.  Everyone is different.   Finding a quality veteran backup shouldn't be that difficult so if Luck is looking better by draft time I can see Ballard entertaining offers.  

I can almost guarantee that Brissett will be a Colt next year. He is highly affordable on his rookie contract and he will have a year with the Colts. Luck is no where near a 100% lock to start the season and definitely not 100% lock to play all 16 games regardless....he hasn't the past 3 seasons.....this isn't Peyton Manning back there....he takes too many hits and his health will now always be a question mark moving forward. We have to have a back up qb as a contingency plan...and I doubt a team offers us like a 1st rd pick or something to get him away.

[richard pallo]

25 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I can almost guarantee that Brissett will be a Colt next year. He is highly affordable on his rookie contract and he will have a year with the Colts. Luck is no where near a 100% lock to start the season and definitely not 100% lock to play all 16 games regardless....he hasn't the past 3 seasons.....this isn't Peyton Manning back there....he takes too many hits and his health will now always be a question mark moving forward. We have to have a back up qb as a contingency plan...and I doubt a team offers us like a 1st rd pick or something to get him away.

Yes Brissett could be a Colt next year.  No doubt.  My point is if Luck is deemed healthy and ready to play we could sign a veteran QB to be his backup like a Hasselbeck.  The fact that Brissett is on a rookie contract makes it more advantageous to us to trade him now.  A team could have him play a year and then negotiate a new deal with him after that.  Teams have seen him play this year.  Next year he might not play that much if at all.  If he stays with us we have to decide to pay him or he becomes a FA.   He could say no to our offer and become a FA or we use one of the tags and he becomes pretty expensive.  I would think a team would rather have him now so they would have control over his contract going forward.  He's fresh in everyones mind this year.  Next year he could lose all the attention.  I think we could get more for him now than waiting a year.  Pretty much the same situation the Pats had with Garaopolo.  Strike when the Irons hot you know. 

[ar1888]

5 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

In year's past, that's been true. As of right now, they're pretty ordinary. They've lost some pieces along that front this year, and are shuffling guys around to make due just like every other team in the league. Just look at Dak's numbers the past few games, he's starting to look more and more like an average 2nd year QB without that elite pass blocking.

As bad as Cowboys oline is this season, Its still better then what the Colts have.

[OLD FAN MAN]

4 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think Ballard is going to try and give the OL a major upgrade through FA.  Pugh, Norwell maybe both.  If he gets one of the premier OL available then I think Barkley is in play with our 1st. pick along with the ER Chubb.  Barkley would be a fantastic addition and could help us out immediately.  Many have him rated the BPA.  I don't think Ballard would pass on him but he probably won't be there when we pick.  Our draft will all depend on what we do in FA.  Our offense really misses a franchise RB.  You can see Zeke is special behind that OL.  The fact that Zeke makes Dak look better just reinforces how important a franchise RB can be.  The other Dallas backs look ordinary.  Brissett has proven he is an NFL starter.  It's amazing how much he has done without the benefit of a training camp or preseason.  I think he will be in high demand this off season.  IMO he will be auditioning for the Bills QB position when the Colts visit Buffalo in a few weeks.  They are very unhappy with T. Taylor and if Brissett performs well, especially in cold weather outdoors, I can see them trading for him.  I can actually see the Bills giving us their first for him.  I am hoping Brissett finishes strong especially in Buffalo.  Ballard is going to get some serious offers for him IMO.

great post

[OLD FAN MAN]

take any player in the draft who we think can help the team win regardless of position, draft picks are a crapshoot give me proven free agents for better results, they wont turn into projects

[Jaredfor3]

I don't think the Colts will be in a position to draft RB Saquon Barkley. 

 

 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Yes Brissett could be a Colt next year.  No doubt.  My point is if Luck is deemed healthy and ready to play we could sign a veteran QB to be his backup like a Hasselbeck.  The fact that Brissett is on a rookie contract makes it more advantageous to us to trade him now.  A team could have him play a year and then negotiate a new deal with him after that.  Teams have seen him play this year.  Next year he might not play that much if at all.  If he stays with us we have to decide to pay him or he becomes a FA.   He could say no to our offer and become a FA or we use one of the tags and he becomes pretty expensive.  I would think a team would rather have him now so they would have control over his contract going forward.  He's fresh in everyones mind this year.  Next year he could lose all the attention.  I think we could get more for him now than waiting a year.  Pretty much the same situation the Pats had with Garaopolo.  Strike when the Irons hot you know. 

Ok...maybe I misunderstood.....but I think you overvalue his trade value. I just don't see it honestly. Jacoby has some good stuff on his resume...but plenty of negatives....I don't think I've seen anything that says this kid should be a long time starter in this league. I do see professional and should be able to be a long time back up. I think we keep him.....backups are expensive and this one knows our team now and proven can win and keep us in games. I don't think we just up and trade that for a 3rd rd pick. Just my opinion. I do suspect after his rookie contract is up he will want to test the FA waters and we will have to give him up rather than pay to keep him though.

[aaron11]

4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

 I did some analysis on this and came to the conclusion that RBs aren't worth first round picks

 

 

seriously? 

 

real teams have taken backs in the first round in the last two years and it has worked out fine for them.  i cant agree with saying dont take them in general because guys like elliot, fournette and bell are worth a first round pick 

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

seriously? 

 

real teams have taken backs in the first round in the last two years and it has worked out fine for them.  i cant agree with saying dont take them in general because guys like elliot, fournette and bell are worth a first round pick 

i concur, those who dont agree need to do some more analysis

[jameszeigler834]

9 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Winning will do nothing for us, if we go on a magical run and win next 6 make the playoffs I will be cheering the hardest...Not gonna happen though...We need Saquon Barkley he is the next A.P, Zeke, Barry Sanders,  franchise changing type RB!! Get Barkley Rd 1, address other issues in rds 2-7, and with the mountain of Cap space we will have..Barkley and a legitimate NFL coach we will be 13-3 next year with a bye PERIOD, with Luck or Brissett...I personally don't think Luck will ever be the same again, and I see enormous potential in Brissett..Flip luck for assets while it's still possible, bring in Harbaugh or Gruden and draft BARKLEY..Easy as pie...

Everybody said that about manning too and look how that turned out and paytons injury was a lot more severe than lucks.

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 hours ago, aaron11 said:

 

bell would have been worth a first round pick.  he wasnt taken there, but in hindsight it would have been worth it.  same is probably true for hunt.  

 

i agree with the OP about running backs and so do real GMs around the league. 

 

the past few drafts have seen at least one back taken early, and guys like elliot and fournette were worth their draft spot

i concur, we cant say they are not worth a first just because of trent, if a player can help you win take him never mind the position

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i concur, we cant say they are not worth a first just because of trent, if a player can help you win take him never mind the position

i think its fair to argue against taking a back in the first round, but that doesn't mean that nobody should ever do it.  its a risk that can still pay off

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

i think its fair to argue against taking a back in the first round, but that doesn't mean that nobody should ever do it.  its a risk that can still pay off

 

 

i concur

[jshipp23]

4 hours ago, dgambill said:

And who will block for this stud running back. How about you go back and look at all the first rd and high draft picks they spent on the OL so that taking a "stud" rb made sense. We are no where near the point where a stud rb is going to make or break our season. Would I love one...sure...will running the ball help Luck...of course but I think most people would agree investing in building that OL first would be prudent...that way you get the most out of your young RB. If you go RB first and then take 3 years to build that OL then your back is almost out of his prime and ready for his second contract before your ready to take that next step......and as far as Barkley goes.....he hasn't shown the consistency yet to me to say this guy is great....he has regularly been shut down in big games for Penn State....he tries for those home runs instead of grinding out the yards sometimes. Needless to say I think there are better backs to be had.

He is the best RB I have seen since Peterson....

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

He is the best RB I have seen since Peterson....

And the Vikings went 64-67 with Peterson starting. Yes he ran for a boat load of yardage with the Vikings but they were still below 50%.

[NannyMcafee]

But I'm still so against it. The oline has been bad for the last 10 years. I'll let you go check and see that statement is correct. If Ballard spent half of our resources on oline, and the other half dline, I would be ecstatic. Obviously won't happen. 

[crazycolt1]

27 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

But I'm still so against it. The oline has been bad for the last 10 years. I'll let you go check and see that statement is correct. If Ballard spent half of our resources on oline, and the other half dline, I would be ecstatic. Obviously won't happen. 

I am with you 100%. O-line and pass rush is equally in need. There is no decent depth there either.

[GoColts00]

13 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Winning will do nothing for us, if we go on a magical run and win next 6 make the playoffs I will be cheering the hardest...Not gonna happen though...We need Saquon Barkley he is the next A.P, Zeke, Barry Sanders,  franchise changing type RB!! Get Barkley Rd 1, address other issues in rds 2-7, and with the mountain of Cap space we will have..Barkley and a legitimate NFL coach we will be 13-3 next year with a bye PERIOD, with Luck or Brissett...I personally don't think Luck will ever be the same again, and I see enormous potential in Brissett..Flip luck for assets while it's still possible, bring in Harbaugh or Gruden and draft BARKLEY..Easy as pie...

What did the Cowboys do in the 1st Rd for 3 years in a row before they drafted Zeke?  They drafted Offensive Linemen that a great RB could run behind....

[Luck 4 president]

Ya let’s just end Luck’s/Brissett’s careers because we fail to put a decent line in front of them AGAIN. But hey at least we’ll have a good running back who’s getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage every play and will be considered a bust after year 1. Great plan! 

[rockywoj]

I do believe that Ballard came into the job saying that you have to build a team out from the trenches.  The OL trench is in greater need of help, now, than our DL trench.   Regardless, I hope Ballard sticks to his expressed philosophy.

 

i,ve been crying for concentration on the OL since Tarik Glenn retired. 

[Barrdaddy]

Whoever thinks Barkley is the next AP, Le'veon, David Johnson is blind. Look at Barkleys production against top defenses he goes no where...he has more games with 25 touches and 50 yards than BIG games. It would be another Trent Richardson! This game is won in the trenches, Grigson forgot that let's not repeat the same mistake again. 

[Bluefire4]

I don't mind considering running backs in the first round with the caliber of a Ezekiel Elliot, Leonard Fournette, or Saquan Barkley at all but it really depends on what we do in free agency especially with the offensive line.

 

Also we have no idea if we will have the draft position to pick Barkley in the first place. I doubt it.

[NannyMcafee]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am with you 100%. O-line and pass rush is equally in need. There is no decent depth there either.

 

After watching both lines degrade and worsen over the years, and after watching Grigson not learn from Polian having left us without a line, what's one year of investing in both lines? At this point might as well. 

 

It will only help keep whoever is QB healthy. 

[aaron11]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

And the Vikings went 64-67 with Peterson starting. Yes he ran for a boat load of yardage with the Vikings but they were still below 50%.

they didnt have a QB though for a lot of that stretch

 

AP won mvp and carried his team to the playoffs one year.  

 

they made it to the conference finals when they had bret farve

[aaron11]

8 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

Ya let’s just end Luck’s/Brissett’s careers because we fail to put a decent line in front of them AGAIN. But hey at least we’ll have a good running back who’s getting tackled behind the line of scrimmage every play and will be considered a bust after year 1. Great plan! 

we dont have to draft Oline in the first round no matter what. 

 

id rather look at pass rushers instead of guards if we are in the top 5, we can find guards in the second and third round.  i definitely would not rule out barkly if he is available when we pick it just depends on who is available 

 

we dont need a LT so we dont have to make oline our first pick.  we can find guards in the second, or make a trade to get one at some point

[21isSuperman]

13 hours ago, aaron11 said:

seriously? 

 

real teams have taken backs in the first round in the last two years and it has worked out fine for them.  i cant agree with saying dont take them in general because guys like elliot, fournette and bell are worth a first round pick 

 

13 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i concur, those who dont agree need to do some more analysis

Read the link I posted.  In general, RBs peak in their 6th year in the league, then decline from there.  It doesn't make sense to use a first round pick on a guy who will peak after his 6th year.  You have a lack of longevity, and they don't have as much of an impact on the game as other positions.  If you were to use a first round pick on a stud offensive lineman, you get quality pass protection and run blocking to give your QB more time and your RB lanes to run through.  If you use your first round pick on a stud RB, but don't have the OL to open up running lanes, your stud RB does nothing for you.  A great OL can make an average RB and QB look really good.  A great RB can't make an average QB or OL look really good.

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

Read the link I posted.  In general, RBs peak in their 6th year in the league, then decline from there.  It doesn't make sense to use a first round pick on a guy who will peak after his 6th year.  You have a lack of longevity, and they don't have as much of an impact on the game as other positions.  If you were to use a first round pick on a stud offensive lineman, you get quality pass protection and run blocking to give your QB more time and your RB lanes to run through.  If you use your first round pick on a stud RB, but don't have the OL to open up running lanes, your stud RB does nothing for you.  A great OL can make an average RB and QB look really good.  A great RB can't make an average QB or OL look really good.

guys like elliot are the reason why i would not make a hard rule that says never draft a back in the first.  he was well worth it and the cowboys would not take anyone else if they could do it over again.  

 

he lead the league in rushing, and it wasnt just all about the line.  he got a lot of that on his own and is also a very good blocker and receiver.

 

its a risk, and there will be more guys entering the draft that are worth it

 

[csmopar]

22 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Winning will do nothing for us, if we go on a magical run and win next 6 make the playoffs I will be cheering the hardest...Not gonna happen though...We need Saquon Barkley he is the next A.P, Zeke, Barry Sanders,  franchise changing type RB!! Get Barkley Rd 1, address other issues in rds 2-7, and with the mountain of Cap space we will have..Barkley and a legitimate NFL coach we will be 13-3 next year with a bye PERIOD, with Luck or Brissett...I personally don't think Luck will ever be the same again, and I see enormous potential in Brissett..Flip luck for assets while it's still possible, bring in Harbaugh or Gruden and draft BARKLEY..Easy as pie...

Apparently those brownies had something in them other than brownie mix. 

[aaron11]

6 years is longer than a lot of our picks have lasted too