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csmopar

Another winner of an article

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000880434/article/the-debrief-week-11-major-revelations-as-2017-season-unfolds

 

He lost me at the "Elway made the Broncos soft."  The problem with the Broncos isn't their toughness or softness, its the fact they are rudderless at QB and have been since Peyton retired. Their Defense, albeit not the same as it was a couple years ago is still tough.

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1 hour ago, csmopar said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000880434/article/the-debrief-week-11-major-revelations-as-2017-season-unfolds

 

He lost me at the "Elway made the Broncos soft."  The problem with the Broncos isn't their toughness or softness, its the fact they are rudderless at QB and have been since Peyton retired. Their Defense, albeit not the same as it was a couple years ago is still tough.

I tried to tell some that Denver would suck once Peyton retired and most people were like NAH, anyone can QB that team and the Denver D is one of the best of all-time. It was Peyton's presence and leadership that still gave Denver an edge on Offense. If anyone watched the games vs Pitt and NE, they would see Peyton played good and didn't make mistakes. Belichick feared him as well.

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For all the issues that Denver has, firing the OC wont fix any of them IMO.

 

Aside from Peyton and getting rid of Osweiler (which he gets too much credit for as he was still offered a lot of money to stay) I am not sure where Elway gets his strong reputation from.  That O-line is as big a mess as ours!

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I tried to tell some that Denver would suck once Peyton retired and most people were like NAH, anyone can QB that team and the Denver D is one of the best of all-time. It was Peyton's presence and leadership that still gave Denver an edge on Offense. If anyone watched the games vs Pitt and NE, they would see Peyton played good and didn't make mistakes. Belichick feared him as well.

 

The way the defense was playing then, those people had a legitimate point. This is NOT the same defense as their Superbowl year, and let's not have some revisionist history here but if you remember, the Broncos were squeezing by teams week after week after week due to their defense facing turnovers late in games. For the first half of the season, the Broncos were winning in spite of who their quarterback was...whether it was Peyton or Brock, they were winning games the same way and it was not due to the offense. I do think there is something to what you said about Peyton's presence and leadership...but everyone who watched the Broncos that season new their success was based 98% on their defense.

 

I'd have to go back and check, but I remember watching those games and it seemed like every single week the Broncos were set to lose and then their defense would intercept the ball in the end zone to steal it, or there would be some crazy fumble return to close it out or another interception, always seeming to happen under the 2 minute warning as the opponent was driving to win. 

 

It never mattered who was playing quarterback that season, Brock won the same way that Peyton won, and it ended up being a winning formula that gave us the rare defensive Superbowl MVP.

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On 11/21/2017 at 9:18 AM, DaveA1102 said:

For all the issues that Denver has, firing the OC wont fix any of them IMO.

 

Aside from Peyton and getting rid of Osweiler (which he gets too much credit for as he was still offered a lot of money to stay) I am not sure where Elway gets his strong reputation from.  That O-line is as big a mess as ours!

 

How about keeping Von Miler, Brandon Marshall, and Derek Wolfe in Denver? John Elway also is the guy who brought in Aqib Talib, DeMarcus Ware, and Emmanuel Sanders. And don't forget John Fox led Denver to t he Super Bowl prior to Gary Kubiak winning it.

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A few observations on my end:

 

  1. There were key players like Malik Jackson for the internal push in the pocket and veteran leadership provided by DeMarcus Ware plus Trevathan in the LB corps all of which contributed, plus the perfect DC in Wade Philips to maximize that talent in 2015. So, yes, that team could have won with most game managers at QB. Peyton did play well enough to control tempo, and not commit turnovers like he did early on in the season to put that D in a bad spot in the playoffs (except maybe the SB but then Cam returned the favors). The change in the make up and maximization of that D happened with Wade and Kubiak at the helm, that is why they won. 
  2. Peyton was a big reason free agents like Talib, Ware and Sanders showed up in Denver. If they had Brock at starting QB, it probably would not have been an attractive destination, much like free agents taking a tad less to play for the Patriots.
  3. The biggest sales pitch Elway did was to get Peyton to Denver. Right now, what they miss is veteran leadership that they had with Peyton on offense and Ware on defense, IMO.
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NFL ratings are down for various reasons, but I bet if Peyton were still playing and he went head to head with Brady, that game would rate high.  There's nothing that compares nowadays. 

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23 hours ago, LockeDown said:

NFL ratings are down for various reasons, but I bet if Peyton were still playing and he went head to head with Brady, that game would rate high.  There's nothing that compares nowadays. 

The viewership of that one game may be higher but in the bigger picture it would not overcome the decline on NFL viewership continuing.

There are several issues added together that is the cause.

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

The viewership of that one game may be higher but in the bigger picture it would not overcome the decline on NFL viewership continuing.

There are several issues added together that is the cause.

I agree, that's why I made sure to add "various reasons", but my main point is that there is no compelling matchup now to overcome the NFLs issues.  Also, Peyton was called the face of the league by many much like Michael Jordan was and now he is gone.  Brady and BB don't have the personalities necessary, even though they win.  

 

Regarding those issues you mention, I think the decline continues for a while.  

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I can only speak for the Broncos/Pats game a couple of weeks ago, because I haven't seen every Denver game this year, but they definitely looked soft in that one. They got pushed around physically but the more obvious part of it is how the game seemed like it was over by the 2nd quarter. Once the Patriots got ahead, there was absolutely no fight left in the Broncos... no heart. That's a "soft" team, mentally, IMO. Of course, it only takes one game for that to change. But right now, I think Elway's got a point. 

 

 

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On 11/21/2017 at 9:31 AM, dynasty13 said:

 

The way the defense was playing then, those people had a legitimate point. This is NOT the same defense as their Superbowl year, and let's not have some revisionist history here but if you remember, the Broncos were squeezing by teams week after week after week due to their defense facing turnovers late in games. For the first half of the season, the Broncos were winning in spite of who their quarterback was...whether it was Peyton or Brock, they were winning games the same way and it was not due to the offense. I do think there is something to what you said about Peyton's presence and leadership...but everyone who watched the Broncos that season new their success was based 98% on their defense.

 

I'd have to go back and check, but I remember watching those games and it seemed like every single week the Broncos were set to lose and then their defense would intercept the ball in the end zone to steal it, or there would be some crazy fumble return to close it out or another interception, always seeming to happen under the 2 minute warning as the opponent was driving to win. 

 

It never mattered who was playing quarterback that season, Brock won the same way that Peyton won, and it ended up being a winning formula that gave us the rare defensive Superbowl MVP.

 

Those games until it finally ended against AZ were like the Final Destination movies. The Broncos winning was a force of nature that nobody could stop, not even the Broncos in their worst phase of the game which was offense sorry everybody lol!

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On 11/24/2017 at 5:27 AM, LockeDown said:

I agree, that's why I made sure to add "various reasons." but my main point is that there is no compelling matchup now to overcome the NFLs issues. Also, Peyton was called the face of the league by many much like Michael Jordan was and now he is gone.  Brady and BB don't have the personalities necessary, even though they win.  

 

Regarding those issues you mention, I think the decline continues for a while.  

 

Peyton Manning was never named "the face of the league" like Tom Brady was just another guy. He was the franchise QB, a future HOF player, etc.but after Eli was drafted, people talked about them by their first names only as if they are almost indistinguishable. We all know Peyton was much better than Eli most of their careers, but there is one thing the Manning brothers have done on the same level: winning Super Bowls.

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13 hours ago, JaguarsWoman said:

 

Peyton Manning was never named "the face of the league" like Tom Brady was just another guy. He was the franchise QB, a future HOF player, etc.but after Eli was drafted, people talked about them by their first names only as if they are almost indistinguishable. We all know Peyton was much better than Eli most of their careers, but there is one thing the Manning brothers have done on the same level: winning Super Bowls.

I said "by many" and if the NFL had one, he was it.  If there is one now, it might be Bellichik and I just coughed up a hair ball saying that.

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