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What If Jimmy brings Chuck Back in 18?


JColts72

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The bolded is scary. If your boss gave you a paycut for whatever reason, would you be okay with it? You need to make a decision based on what you think is right, not depend on others to make decisions for you. I understand we have no say in the final decision, but you are allowed to make a decision and don't have to be a company fan. If it's something you like, like it because you genuinely like it, not because you feel forced as a fan out of loyalty. If you disagree with something, that's fine too. You aren't going to get a whipping from Irsay because you disagree with a decision of his. Great men question things, they are the ones that are most successful. Those are the minority that end up with the jobs in the first place that you agree with all the time. You are allowed to question decisions. Everyone is human.

   My point is (and has always been) that fans do not know the details that go into game planning, or even (in a lot of cases) who was at fault on a particular play. That’s why no one on this forum is qualified to make the decisions Ballard has to make. 

   And there are times when you have to trust the competency of someone that is qualified to make certain decisions.

    Would you, for instance, tell an anesthesiologist which drugs you should be given, before an operation? 

   Maybe it will be cut and dry and a loosing record will mean the demise of the coaching staff. Maybe not.  We shall see.

   

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now you are being argumentative on issues that are not what this tread is about. No where have I defended Pagano in this tread. We all pretty much already knows how everyone thinks but you continue to bash me because I have a different opinion that you. Just stop.

No, I'm bashing you because your opinion isn't based on any substance, rather just the fact that we should be positive about Pagano and the Colts because they are our team. That's not a good enough reason by itself. Honesty is the best policy. That has been true since the beginning of time and it's true on this forum. This team is not good right now, the coach, the players, the coordinators, nothing. I don't like a picture of deception being painted over this forum that it is, even if the intent is to paint a positive light over it. I'd rather address the issues the team has, and discuss ways to improve it. 

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33 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Is there any doubt our GM is closely watching all the potential next Head Coaches, and co-ordinators?
 The Toub guy from KC could be a Chuck type leader and bring his excellence is special teams. A fresh face at the Top is often good. He has to have his sights on who he likes as Off & Def co-ordinators.
 Just for fun.
  I do believe Ballard will add two good guards, a blocking TE, a good big wide out and a RB.
 Also a pass rushing DTackle, a speedy ILB, and another CB.
  A lot of pieces, but give him two off seasons to Build it.
  Say we replace our O-Line coach.
   With all these pieces, does Ballard believe our current head coach and his co-ordinators could deliver?
 
  We have Ryan Kelly with a couple ham sandwiches beside him, and Frank did pound the middle for a number of good runs. I get a kick out of that. Just dreamin', if we added this stud Quentin Nelson, 6'5 329 and another guard that could get some push, i'm thinkin', woweee. When you can pound a D between the tackles it opens up EVERYTHING.    Go Colts!  
 

Regarding Toub.... his excellence with ST is not likely to help much. The Colts are very good already in that area. Among the best in the league. I'm not against Toub, just sayin' that his ST skills wouldn't help much. While our OL is a big problem, I'm not sure Philbin is a major part of the problem. When you have Vuj in there getting run over on most plays and Kalis with his lack of experience and talent, I'm not sure any OL coach would do much better.

 

I do expect a HC change next year. I just hope the HC and his DC are 34 defense with press coverage proponents. We are beginning to have the right personnel for that type defense. I like that style of defense and I'd hate to have to transition back to the 43 with off coverage when our new D personnel is not as good of a fit for it.

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

No, I'm bashing you because your opinion isn't based on any substance, rather just the fact that we should be positive about Pagano and the Colts because they are our team. That's not a good enough reason by itself. Honesty is the best policy. That has been true since the beginning of time and it's true on this forum. This team is not good right now, the coach, the players, the coordinators, nothing. I don't like a picture of deception being painted over this forum that it is, even if the intent is to paint a positive light over it. I'd rather address the issues the team has, and discuss ways to improve it. 

Do you know what the meaning of just stop is? Hashing all this over at this point serves no purpose.

What has honesty have to do with a difference of opinion?  I am not here for you to argue with. Is that too hard for you to comprehend?

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6 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

   My point is (and has always been) that fans do not know the details that go into game planning, or even (in a lot of cases) who was at fault on a particular play. That’s why no one on this forum is qualified to make the decisions Ballard has to make. 

   And there are times when you have to trust the competency of someone that is qualified to make certain decisions.

    Would you, for instance, tell an anesthesiologist which drugs you should be given, before an operation? 

   Maybe it will be cut and dry and a loosing record will mean the demise of the coaching staff. Maybe not.  We shall see.

   

An anesthesiologist yes, I would trust, because they are taught certain guidelines and procedures in college, and it is very consistent between every one of them. A GM or a coach is different. Not all are created equal. Some coaches have trouble with the offense or defense or have other weaknesses while others are well rounded. It's obvious Pagano has trouble coaching offenses. GM's are responsible for the cap, drafting players, and signing FA's. Drafting players is an inexact science. Most use very different techniques and end up being failures at it. The players are also different every year, and GM's aren't consistently good like an anesthesiologist that does the same thing with the knowledge he learns. A GM's success is random to a degree and somewhat luck based depending on if his draft picks and FA's hit. I wouldn't depend on an anesthesiologist that is depending on Luck to help a patient. You are fully trusting a GM and Coach at every turn that are making a lot of luck based decisions, and especially a coach that is poorly offensively minded. We may not be better than them, but that's not our job. Their job is to be better than 31 other coaches and GM's. Pagano definitely isn't that, and it's too early to grade Ballard and put that 100% trust into him for me yet. I'm human and so he, so I will question his decisions at times.

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20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Tell that to Detroit.

 

They hired a new GM and kept their coach, JimCaldwell.    And they've done very well.

 

 

Caldwell is a coach that many people on this forum called incompetent.  Go figure!!!!

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10 minutes ago, krunk said:

Caldwell is a coach that many people on this forum called incompetent.  Go figure!!!!

 

Yup....

 

Caldwell was the coach that became Baltimore's OC late in the 2012 year when they went to the Super Bowl.

 

He took over around week 13,  straightened out their offense,  and kept it hot during the playoffs and SB.

 

Heck,  Joe Flacco should probably write him a large check for helping him earn his big contract!

 

Caldwell is not nearly as bad as many fans here want to believe.     And neither is Pagano.     And neither was Manusky and neither was Pep.

 

When things go south here,  this crowd becomes a pitch forks and torches crowd,  and they look for someone to blame....           Nothing changes....

 

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31 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

They also have a very good OC despite Caldwell as their coach.

 

That's fine.    No denying that.

 

But that's not what I was responding to.      The poster I responded to said hiring a new GM and staying with the old HC doesn't work.      I gave an example where it has....      that's all,  I wouldn't read anything more into that....

 

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4 minutes ago, Dark Superman said:

Chuck Pagano is not coming back in 2018.

He will be lucky to land on a team as an assistant coach.

He will probably end up coaching some Division II college team.

If Richt hadn't done so well, I expected Chuck to be coaching his Canes by now.

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46 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Really?  And you are any different?  You can throw all the fits you want be it means absolutely zero to anyone but you.

The only people that would be happy about the possibility that Chuck stays is the delusional chuck supporters themselves and all it would do is ensure a couple more extra years this team wont do anything.

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They also have a very good OC despite Caldwell as their coach.

 

They have a good OC because of Caldwell not despite him.  Both Caldwell and Jim Bob were both here.  I am pretty sure Caldwell brought him into Detroit and it was Caldwell who made him the OC.

 

Caldwell is still bad, his OC is good, but Caldwell makes the same mistakes Pagano does.  He cannot stand to have a big lead.  They both go conservative and screw everything up.

 

Make no mistake, Manning threw the interception that eventually lost the Superbowl, but Caldwell's lack of killer instinct is what lost that Superbowl.  You have Sean Payton and Drew Brees down at the end of the 1st half and instead of letting one of the top QBs of all time march down the field and score a FG or a TD, you run, run , run, punt.  That cost the Colts the Superbowl as it changed momentum and left the Colts with a 10-6 lead at half.  Instead of 17-3.

 

So 6 points is all NO could muster in one hallf, but somehow, after half time adjustments, they score 24 in the 2nd half.  Sound familiar?

 

Pagano does the exact same thing.  For some reason there is no killer instinct in Pagano.  The Colts ease off and teams come back and win in the 4th.  Happens all the time.

 

If Pagano comes back it will be a disaster, but I will still watch, I can't help myself, but it will not be because of him.  It will be simply because I have no choice.  The Colts are my team.

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5 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

The only people that would be happy about the possibility that Chuck stays is the delusional chuck supporters themselves and all it would do is ensure a couple more extra years this team wont do anything.

What does that have to do with you losing your temper if Chuck is not fired?

Now you are just trolling me.

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I think it's POSSIBLE that Chuck is brought back.

 

But I'd put those odds at roughly LESS than 10 percent.

 

So, I don't think it's likely.

 

I think the odds are very strong that a new HC and staff are brought in.  

 

After a season as we are having getting a clean break and a fresh start would likely be the best for everyone.

 

And I'd guess that if Chuck IS retained for another year,   that one reason might be finances.     That it might cost more than Irsay wants to pay to make the current staff go away.      

 

Or,  another reason might be what we had last year....     couldn't find the right guy to replace Chuck.

 

As much talk as their is around here around Taub,  I'm not sure the politics can work out for him.     After what Luck has been through,  can we hire a guy who has not been a successful HC before?      Don't we want someone with a track record of success to help Luck take the Colts back to the highest levels?     Taub might be great,   but without knowing, are Ballard and Irsay really ready to turn the franchise over to another first time HC and hope he works out?

 

That's hard for me to see........       

 

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27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yup....

 

Caldwell was the coach that became Baltimore's OC late in the 2012 year when they went to the Super Bowl.

 

He took over around week 13,  straightened out their offense,  and kept it hot during the playoffs and SB.

 

Heck,  Joe Flacco should probably write him a large check for helping him earn his big contract!

 

Caldwell is not nearly as bad as many fans here want to believe.     And neither is Pagano.     And neither was Manusky and neither was Pep.

 

When things go south here,  this crowd becomes a pitch forks and torches crowd,  and they look for someone to blame....           Nothing changes....

 

Outside of Bellichick maybe I find that most teams fans lobby the same type of complaints against their coach that we do against Pagano.  I'm sure the Steelers are saying the same stuff about Tomlin,  believe me the Titans are saying the same stuff about Mularkey because I read their boards and they want him gone. So on and so forth.  Most coaches make many of the same in game mistakes that Chuck makes to be honest.

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35 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I've followed the Colts since the 1950s.  Jimmy Irsay has been called Jimmy long as he's been around the Colts, circa 1972.

 

Funny, been a fan since the 60's....never heard him called Jimmy ....maybe he was in 1972  when he was 12 years old........whatever....

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4 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

He hired a new GM who has done worse (record) than Grigson. 

 

There are a lot of variables at play, but unless we win 5 of the last 6 then the statement will be true.

 

No pitchfork reply’s needed from anyone. I am not defending Grigson, and was glad he was let go. Truth is, according to our record, we are going backwards. Hopefully that somehow allows us to go forward. We can all be as optimistic as we want to be, but it still has to play out like we all want it to. 

 

That is always going to be the case, just like any incoming President. Is the current record reflective of the previous regime or the current regime? 

 

In football, there are several variables like the time it takes to hit on draft picks, and how there is a finite amount to spend on FAs every year, and the variables involved like coaching, loss of starting QB etc.,

 

In our case, it is safe to say the product on the field is more a factor of Grigson than a factor of Ballard. Irsay also probably wanted a full year of Pagano without the "alleged" interference of Grigson. It is just too "black and white" to say the record is bad compared to the previous regime or GM, given how many variables have to be considered.

 

Has the front 7 improved vs the run? Yes. Has the secondary come along as the year went on? Yes. Has the loss of Luck been a bigger factor with the O and OL losing more games than the D? I would have to say yes to that too. We will have one more year of OL picks/FAs plus defensive picks to get to the middle of the NFL pack in terms of talent, IMO, and when we get our great leveler back i.e. Luck, it will be even better.

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31 minutes ago, krunk said:

Outside of Bellichick maybe I find that most teams fans lobby the same type of complaints against their coach that we do against Pagano.  I'm sure the Steelers are saying the same stuff about Tomlin,  believe me the Titans are saying the same stuff about Mularkey because I read their boards and they want him gone. So on and so forth.  Most coaches make many of the same in game mistakes that Chuck makes to be honest.

 

Yeah, lots of fans do criticize their HC. Broncos fans turning on Vance is recent trend.

However, I'd say the interesting difference is that it's not just our fanbase who criticizes Chuck. It's pretty much unaminous outside of our Colts fanbase bubble that Chuck is a mediocre (most say below average/bad) head coach.

At least with guys like Tomlin, Arians, even guys like Mularkey or O'Brien, you have split opinions around the league of whether they're good/mediocre/bad HC's. It's not really like that with Chuck.

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3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah, lots of fans do criticize their HC.

However, I'd say the interesting difference is that it's not just our fanbase who criticizes Chuck. It's pretty much unaminous outside of our Colts fanbase bubble that Chuck is a mediocre (most say bad quite honestly) head coach.

At least with guys like Tomlin, Arians, even guys like Mularkey or O'Brien, you have split opinions around the league of whether they're good/mediocre/bad HC's. It's not really like that with Chuck.

Yeah but when those coaching polls or rankings come out Chuck doesn't usually end up at the bottom.   And I'm not shooting for him to return or anything.  Just saying

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3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah, lots of fans do criticize their HC. Broncos fans turning on Vance is recent trend.

However, I'd say the interesting difference is that it's not just our fanbase who criticizes Chuck. It's pretty much unaminous outside of our Colts fanbase bubble that Chuck is a mediocre (most say below average/bad) head coach.

At least with guys like Tomlin, Arians, even guys like Mularkey or O'Brien, you have split opinions around the league of whether they're good/mediocre/bad HC's. It's not really like that with Chuck.

Link please?  Other than the media having a problem with the Colts in general I highly doubt too much attention is paid to Pagano.

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1 minute ago, jimmy g said:

He was a college grad, and, basically, ran the team when they moved.  Became GM.  Was still called Jimmy.  I don't see it as a problem.  I'm 63, and look at my username.

 

Ok......Never having been to Balt. or Ind....I guess in those places he has been/ is called Jimmy.... honestly never heard it until the recent Dadich (or whatever his name is) interview where it sounded like he was upset with "Jimmy Irsay" and his false promises......But if he actually is called Jimmy by many, I stand corrected.....

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