Stop Blaming Pagano

[Imrryr]

I would even say there are times every game i wish i could go back to supporting chuck...but at this point every game in the back of my head is "when will it start to unravel" and "oh,there it is"

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

Perhaps to some extent, but the coach still sets the course and is ultimately responsible as the entire team answers to him. 

That is the way things are supposed to work but not always

 

 Forgivd md since I can only speak from my time as a HS Assistant 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Imrryr said:

Look, I was an avid chuck defender up until even this season. I get the arguments but looking at the way the team is (little to no talent development, horribly managed games, an inability to adjust gameplans etc.) I mean its not that they cant win its that they cant adapt which is very important for a coach to be able to do.

I was ProChuck until we lost last year to Brock/Houston here at home. That was basically for the Division and they had no Watt and we had Andrew. That loss was unacceptable. I like Chuck and respect what he did from 2012-2015, it was great at times but after last season I thought it was time for change.

[JCPatriot]

2 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Other great coaches have done trick plays. Some work and some don’t.

 

It's not that it didn't work.  I have no problem with trying something innovative or unorthodox and not having it pan out.  I will almost always give the coach the benefit of the doubt on that.  It's that there was never any chance for anything good to come out of it.  It's like Collinsworth said, "What the heck?  What was the plan?"  I understand that the ball was never supposed to be snapped.  That is obvious.  What that means, though, is that they ran an unorthodox trick play in a crucial situation in a big game with the players executing the play not understanding their role in the play.  The players were clearly not prepared to attempt this, and that falls on the coach.  And since the ball was never meant to be snapped, that means that the only possible plan was to line up in a really bizarre (and illegal) formation and hope that the defense is so confused that they commit an encroachment penalty.  An encroachment penalty is the ONLY way that something good comes out of that.  That doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the coaching strategy.  For some reason, going up against Belichick brings out the stupid in opposing coaches.

[GwinnettColt]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

That is the way things are supposed to work but not always

 

 but I can only speak from my time as a HS Assistant 

 

I understand your point.  I really do.  Ideally, you pick people that you put in charge as you trust them to do their jobs and motivate others to do the same.   At the end of the day, it falls on the coach....even the coordinators' performances.

 

 

 

 

[B~Town]

Someone needs to take the play calling duties from Chud  . Not adjusting and taking advantage of the outside blitz they kept running I found very frusterating today . 

[bluebombers87]

9 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

It's not that it didn't work.  I have no problem with trying something innovative or unorthodox and not having it pan out.  I will almost always give the coach the benefit of the doubt on that.  It's that there was never any chance for anything good to come out of it.  It's like Collinsworth said, "What the heck?  What was the plan?"  I understand that the ball was never supposed to be snapped.  That is obvious.  What that means, though, is that they ran an unorthodox trick play in a crucial situation in a big game with the players executing the play not understanding their role in the play.  The players were clearly not prepared to attempt this, and that falls on the coach.  And since the ball was never meant to be snapped, that means that the only possible plan was to line up in a really bizarre (and illegal) formation and hope that the defense is so confused that they commit an encroachment penalty.  An encroachment penalty is the ONLY way that something good comes out of that.  That doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the coaching strategy.  For some reason, going up against Belichick brings out the stupid in opposing coaches.

I’m aware of that. That’s why I said it was to draw them offsides. Not sure why you wasted all that text to explain something everyone who read my post already knew.

 

If you have to tell a player in that situation not to hike the ball, well there’s a reason he’s not on the team anymore.

 

EDIT - No amount of coaching can fix someone who saw that formation and was like “yea, this will work”.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I don't think he's the worst OL coach in the league but he obviously is not near what we thought he was as an OL coach

Naa,  He's the worst!

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

Some people are putting all the blame on him. Trust I’m mad right now. I live here in PGH. My phone is blowing up. Thx next few days will be hard for me. However I made this post to make others aware about how bad some of our players are. 

 

 Putting all the blame on him, huh?
 Let's do the math ok?
  Subtract the ones that want to fire the Off Co.
  Then the ones that want to fire the Def Co.
  How about the posters that want to fire the O-Line Coach.
 Add in the unlikely probability that you made ANYONE aware of our roster weaknesses!
   So really,  how many people want to put all the blame on Chuck?

[JCPatriot]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

I’m aware of that. That’s why I said it was to draw them offsides. Not sure why you wasted all that text to explain something everyone who read my post already knew.

 

Offsides doesn't do anything for you.  It had to be encroachment.

 

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

If you have to tell a player in that situation not to hike the ball, well there’s a reason he’s not on the team anymore.

 

If you have your players line up in a highly unorthodox formation in which the ball is not to be snapped under any circumstances and you do not communicate to the "center" in the play that he is not to snap the ball under any circumstances, then you did not do your job as a coach.

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I am being civil.

i concur. they should see you when you are not civil

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Putting all the blame on him, huh?
 Let's do the math ok?
  Subtract the ones that want to fire the Off Co.
  Then the ones that want to fire the Def Co.
  How about the posters that want to fire the O-Line Coach.
 Add in the unlikely probability that you made ANYONE aware of our roster weaknesses!
   So really,  how many people want to put all the blame on Chuck?

i concur talent tells the tale

[Knuckles79]

Just because players like you and play hard for you doesn't mean you're a good coach. Simply means they like you as a person and will battle for you.  

 

A coach's job is to train and teach a player to be the best he can be and to put a game plan together that puts your team in the best position to win. Also when things do not go as planned make in game adjustments .

 

I think Pags is a great guy but not a good Head Coach. So in saying that I am in the group that is ready to move on from this Coaching staff. 

[bluebombers87]

13 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

Offsides doesn't do anything for you.  It had to be encroachment.

 

 

If you have your players line up in a highly unorthodox formation in which the ball is not to be snapped under any circumstances and you do not communicate to the "center" in the play that he is not to snap the ball under any circumstances, then you did not do your job as a coach.

Point still stands.

 

And how do we know it wasn’t communicated? Your assuming that this player was dumb enough to not realize that? Odds are this player (Anderson or Whalen) choked.

 

And I’m sorry but in any environment if I have to tell someone not to stab themselves in the leg with a knife, they don’t belong in the first place.

[JCPatriot]

4 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

And how do we know it wasn’t communicated?

 

There was clearly a lapse in communication.  He didn't know that he was absolutely not to snap the ball under any circumstances.  It's not like he was in a situation where he had to make a judgment call about whether or not he should snap the ball and he screwed it up.  He just didn't seem to know that he wasn't supposed to snap the ball.

 

4 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Odds are this player (Anderson or Whalen) choked.

 

Choking seems unlikely.  It is an extremely low-pressure situation if your job is communicated to you properly.  Your job is to bend down over the ball, put your hand on the ball, and NOT DO ANYTHING AT ALL.  How would you choke in that situation?  I could do that without getting nervous, and I'm very bad about choking under pressure.

[zibby43]

3 hours ago, a06cc said:

Did Pagano today tell the offensive line to not pick up the blitzes? Did he tell Tj Green to have a melt down in the second half? 

 

No, but he did hire Ted Monachino, a man that employs vanilla zone defenses that are less complicated to diagnose that many high school school defenses.

 

And he did hire Chud, an OC that has taken years to realize how to successfully utilize T.Y. Hilton on a consistent basis.  An OC that has taken years to realize that 7-step drop PA passes aren't successful when the offensive line can't stop a nosebleed.

 

Chuck is responsible for those hires.  He has hired a lot of his buddies, and those decisions will be his downfall.

 

Also, Chuck is one of the worst head coaches in the league when it comes to in-game strategy (clock management, challenges, timeout usage, etc.).  His teams tend to commit penalties of the undisciplined and boneheaded variety (procedural penalties, personal foul penalties, etc.).

 

Chuck is a good man and it makes me sad that it's not working out for him.

 

That said, I want the Colts to be successful and there is more than enough evidence now that Chuck is not the guy to lead this team and restore it to a perennial playoff contender.

 

He will be gone at the end of the season.  It's a lock.

[bluebombers87]

4 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

There was clearly a lapse in communication.  He didn't know that he was absolutely not to snap the ball under any circumstances.  It's not like he was in a situation where he had to make a judgment call about whether or not he should snap the ball and he screwed it up.  He just didn't seem to know that he wasn't supposed to snap the ball.

 

 

Choking seems unlikely.  It is an extremely low-pressure situation if your job is communicated to you properly.  Your job is to bend down over the ball, put your hand on the ball, and NOT DO ANYTHING AT ALL.  How would you choke in that situation?  I could do that without getting nervous, and I'm very bad about choking under pressure.

So you’re assuming that an NFL player, with years experience, saw 5 or more D linemen across from him ready to annhilate him, not a snapper or center, and thought, well I wasn’t told to snap it, might as well.  C’mon man. You’re being silly. It was a crucial point of the game. He was staring down certain death. 

 

I think its its much more likely that he knew not to, he just did because he’s human and succumbed to the pressure.

[Roger]

Looks like the folks who think Chuck is a good coach feel the same as the folks who want Chuck to be fired.

 

Both sides are ticked off.

[jvan1973]

I was rooting for the loss.   I'm glad the team was fighting for the win,   but I don't want them to win another game.  I still want them to fight for the wins though

[RockThatBlue]

59 minutes ago, B~Town said:

Someone needs to take the play calling duties from Chud  . Not adjusting and taking advantage of the outside blitz they kept running I found very frusterating today . 

Pagano should hide Chuds headset for 3rd and long playcalls. Need 15 yards and we get 2 or 3 yards almost every time.

[JCPatriot]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

So you’re assuming that an NFL player, with years experience, saw 5 or more D linemen across from him ready to annhilate him, not a snapper or center, and thought, well I wasn’t told to snap it, might as well.  C’mon man. You’re being silly. It was a crucial point of the game. He was staring down certain death.

 

What I'm saying is that he should have gone to the "line" already knowing that he wasn't going to snap the ball under any circumstances.........regardless of what the defense did.  He should have gone to the line knowing that my job is to stand here and not move at all no matter what.  His job was literally to not do anything.  He wasn't staring down certain death.  He was in much greater danger of getting hit on any regular play.  That play was pretty much the safest play that you could be in........because it wasn't a play.

[ReMeDy]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Pagano should hide Chuds headset for 3rd and long playcalls. Need 15 yards and we get 2 or 3 yards almost every time.

 

I have noticed that. When the Patriots are in those situations, I see them fight for those 15 yds, and sometimes even go for it on 4th down. I guess that's the luxury of having a good QB.

[RockThatBlue]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I was rooting for the loss.   I'm glad the team was fighting for the win,   but I don't want them to win another game.  I still want them to fight for the wins though

Pretty much how I feel, though I wouldn't say I root for it. I don't think the Colts need me to root against them for them to lose anyway lol. But I want a high draft pick (top 10) pretty badly. I feel like the Colts need a year like this to help us rebuild.

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Pretty much how I feel, though I wouldn't say I root for it. I don't think the Colts need me to root against them for them to lose anyway lol. But I want a high draft pick (top 10) pretty badly. I feel like the Colts need a year like this to help us rebuild.

We are the only that care about a high draft pick 

 A HDP is often Fool’s Gold

[bluebombers87]

7 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

What I'm saying is that he should have gone to the "line" already knowing that he wasn't going to snap the ball under any circumstances.........regardless of what the defense did.  He should have gone to the line knowing that my job is to stand here and not move at all no matter what.  His job was literally to not do anything.  He wasn't staring down certain death.  He was in much greater danger of getting hit on any regular play.  That play was pretty much the safest play that you could be in........because it wasn't a play.

And I’m saying is that even if Chuck said don’t do the absolute worst thing you can do in that situation (which I guarantee he did) he shouldn’t have had to. He should’ve realized that (being an NFL player) and not hiked the ball. 

 

You can keep keep trying to reach on this but you’re only making yourself look worse and worse. End of the line, if I hand a gun to a trained arms handler, and I don’t say “don’t shoot yourself in the head” but he does anyway, it’s not my fault. It’s called common sense.

[PrincetonTiger]

45 minutes ago, TheGreatManning18Fan said:

Just because players like you and play hard for you doesn't mean you're a good coach. Simply means they like you as a person and will battle for you.  

 

A coach's job is to train and teach a player to be the best he can be and to put a game plan together that puts your team in the best position to win. Also when things do not go as planned make in game adjustments .

 

I think Pags is a great guy but not a good Head Coach. So in saying that I am in the group that is ready to move on from this Coaching staff. 

The only “factions” that matter are Colts Fan and non Colts Fan

[krunk]

I think ive seen enough of TJ Green at this point to say we've seen all hes got. Need to cut ties with Green.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, krunk said:

I think ive seen enough of TJ Green at this point to say we've seen all hes got. Need to cut ties with Green.

The dive into the pile was totally unnecessary and there was probably nothing CP and the gang could do about it

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The dive into the pile was totally unnecessary and there was probably nothing CP and the gang could do about it

I dont blame the coach at all for that. I credit Chuck for snatching him and giving him a seat on the bench for the rest of the game. I think he was benched after that one or that other special teams penalty. TJ may not make it through the season. I'm almost sure he wont be here next year.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I dont blame the coach at all for that. I credit Chuck for snatching him and giving him a seat on the bench for the rest of the game. I think he was benched after that one or that other special teams penalty. TJ may not make it through the season. I'm almost sure he wont be here next year.

Feel the same way

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, a06cc said:

Did Pagano today tell the offensive line to not pick up the blitzes? Did he tell Tj Green to have a melt down in the second half? 

 

I’ll never stop blaming Chuck.

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

If you're offended by me stating the obvious, then I don't know what to tell you

I was in that boat right up to about game 3. After that, yeah I'm with you 110 percent.

Blowing a 14 point lead... I'll give you this, I wasn't expecting it to come down to a last second field goal. But 3 straight pass plays to go 3 and out after your QB just took a shot to the head..... yeah that speaks volumes

Cant question play calls in a close game.. He wa sinthe game..you cal the plays.

 

Look, few expected us to stay close in all these games but there we are.

WE lose because we're the less talented team.

 

Its not coaching

 

..

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Everyone said:

It's almost like a Pagano lead team has a knack for losing games after having a 2+ score lead....

 

There's a blueprint on how to attack us defensively late in the 3rd and full 4th quarter, and create 3 and outs - which keeps us from adding to our score, and tires out our defense trying to keep them from scoring.  The problem is, everyone does it, and we haven't been able to stop nearly any of them from running that blueprint to perfection.  A sad shame, really.  I thought I would have seen an adjustment to the slot blitz...   nope game wrecking plays coming from there still.  Etc... ad nauseam...

[oldunclemark]

There's a lot of things, as an offense, we cant do right now..

 

I think the inexperience of our linemen and QB has a lot to do with it

 

[jvan1973]

24 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

We are the only that care about a high draft pick 

 A HDP is often Fool’s Gold

No it isn't.   Many hall of fame players cane from the top 15 picks in the draft.   Certainly not a guaranteed great player,   but far from fools gold

[bluebombers87]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

There's a lot of things, as an offense, we cant do right now..

 

I think the inexperience of our linemen and QB has a lot to do with it

 

This.

 

I think a lot of fans are in Madden mode and think there is one person pulling all the strings. They’re isn’t. Pagano is the overall leader but he has many people working under him. Some people need to go and that’s a discussion worth having. 

 

Fact of the matter is I see a lot of young players learning hard lessons on the front line that most others have the luxury of a few years of seasoning before they learn them.

 

If we can keep the core group together and add in a few pieces, we can be a complete team... in a few years. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

No it isn't.   Many hall of fame players cane from the top 15 picks in the draft.   Certainly not a guaranteed great player,   but far from fools gold

There are many morre who were huge busts 

 

  If HDP were a sure thing Cleveland would be a dynasty

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I’ll never stop blaming Chuck.

Being bull headed isn't a great look.    Look who was covering the best wr in football.   Those young guys played great today.      Mingo has been a cast off in a few spots,   he has played very well here.    Pagano certainly has faults,  but far from all of them

[Dark Superman]

This loss wasn't on the coaching staff.

This loss is on our GM who failed to address our Offensive Line during the off-season.

The defense played their tails off.

The offense line nearly got our backup QB killed again.

[richard pallo]

Just now, Dark Superman said:

This loss wasn't on the coaching staff.

This loss is on our GM who failed to address our Offensive Line during the off-season.

The defense played their tails off.

The offense line nearly got our backup QB killed again.

Couldn't agree more!