Stop Blaming Pagano

[JCPatriot]

5 minutes ago, a06cc said:

A ton, but not all of the blame should be placed on him is all I’m trying to say.

 

If that is what you are saying, then I agree with you.  Of course he doesn't deserve all of the blame.  That isn't how you opened up the discussion, though.  You titled this thread, "Stop Blaming Pagano," and then listed a couple of examples of how poor play or lack of discipline aren't his fault.  By doing that, you are giving the impression that you are saying not to blame him at all, which is absurd.  Obviously, though, he is not responsible for every little thing.  It's not entirely his fault, but he is certainly not entirely blameless in this either.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

It isn't the fan base.  It's this message board in particular.  If you want homer talk where everything is always puppies amd candy canes, come to this board.  

Have you seen other boards because @Nadine and the mod team does s great job

[GwinnettColt]

3 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I'm just here to say, I still blame Pagano. How many leads has this team blown this year?

 

Very good question.  I had to think about it.

 

@LA-got killed. No chance to win that one.

Arizona-blew that lead

Cleveland-a win?  (almost lost it)

@Seattle-Got killed.

SF-won in OT.

@Tenn-lost-blew it in the fourth quarter.

Jacksonville-Got killed

@Cincy-Blew the fourth quarter lead.

@Houston-Won, but almost blew it on the last play.

Pittsburgh-Lost.  Blew the fourth quarter lead.

Summary:

Four of the Losses were fourth quarter lead meltdowns.

Three of the Losses were undisputed, cannot come up with an excuse losses.

The three wins were barely wins.  Indy has won its three wins with a combined score of 9 points. 

During the preseason, the pundits called the Colts a "Dumpster Fire."  I'd love to argue with that....but I have no evidence to the contrary. 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

If that is what you are saying, then I agree with you.  Of course he doesn't deserve all of the blame.  That isn't how you opened up the discussion, though.  You titled this thread, "Stop Blaming Pagano," and then listed a couple of examples of how poor play or lack of discipline aren't his fault.  By doing that, you are giving the impression that you are saying not to blame him at all, which is absurd.  Obviously, though, he is not responsible for every little thing.  It's not entirely his fault, but he is certainly not entirely blameless in this either.

If I blame anyone it is the man in Cleveland since most of the players as his picks

[John Waylon]

No.  

 

No...

 

No. 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

Very good question.  I had to think about it.

 

@LA-got killed. No chance to win that one.

Arizona-blew that lead

Cleveland-a win?  (almost lost it)

@Seattle-Got killed.

SF-won in OT.

@Tenn-lost-blew it in the fourth quarter.

Jacksonville-Got killed

@Cincy-Blew the fourth quarter lead.

@Houston-Won, but almost blew it on the last play.

Pittsburgh-Lost.  Blew the fourth quarter lead.

Summary:

Four of the Losses were fourth quarter lead meltdowns.

Three of the Losses were undisputed, cannot come up with an excuse losses.

The three wins were barely wins.  Indy has won its three wins with a combined score of 9 points. 

During the preseason, the pundits called the Colts a "Dumpster Fire."  I'd love to argue with that....but I have no evidence to the contrary. 

 

 

The hard part about that op is it has happened everywhere 

[Nadine]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Have you seen other boards because @Nadine and the mod team does s great job

 

 

It's been suggested that we bring cookies into threads.  Everyone is always happier with cookies.

 

Hey @Mr Coffee The never ending battle is between optimists and pessimists.  When they each see the other post, they come to the conclusion that the whole board is biased.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

Very good question.  I had to think about it.

 

@LA-got killed. No chance to win that one.

Arizona-blew that lead

Cleveland-a win?  (almost lost it)

@Seattle-Got killed.

SF-won in OT.

@Tenn-lost-blew it in the fourth quarter.

Jacksonville-Got killed

@Cincy-Blew the fourth quarter lead.

@Houston-Won, but almost blew it on the last play.

Pittsburgh-Lost.  Blew the fourth quarter lead.

Summary:

Four of the Losses were fourth quarter lead meltdowns.

Three of the Losses were undisputed, cannot come up with an excuse losses.

The three wins were barely wins.  Indy has won its three wins with a combined score of 9 points. 

During the preseason, the pundits called the Colts a "Dumpster Fire."  I'd love to argue with that....but I have no evidence to the contrary. 

 

 

No Offense but I hear the same argument when I go to the UK Football board and they are 7-3

[VaAllDay757]

Meaningless thread

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

 

It's been suggested that we bring cookies into threads.  Everyone is always happier with cookies.

 

Hey @Mr Coffee The never ending battle is between optimists and pessimists.  When they each see the other post, they come to the conclusion that the whole board is biased.

 

 

The same way WW I started

[mahagga73]

The TJ Green experiment may be short lived. 

[GwinnettColt]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

No Offense but I hear the same argument when I go to the UK Football board and they are 7-3

 

None taken; it's only a message board on the internet nor did I read anything remotely offensive. 

 

I think it comes down to being able to finish the game.  The 'Cats can but the Colts can't.  I think the O-line folds early and makes the QB force the ball and the run game never really gets going.  The D, as good or as bad as it may be on any particular day, gets winded and doesn't play well-especially later on in the game.  Hence, a loss. 

[JColts72]

So 4 fouth guarter loses are not on chuck u say? or blowing leads. This team goes soft and has 0 toughness.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

None taken; it's only a message board on the internet nor did I read anything remotely offensive. 

 

I think it comes down to being able to finish the game.  The 'Cats can but the Colts can't.  I think the O-line folds early and makes the QB force the ball and the run game never really gets going.  The D, as good or as bad as it may be on any particular day, gets winded and doesn't play well-especially later on in the game.  Hence, a loss. 

JMO but not sure how much CP can do about a lot of this since much of the problems come from physical mistake and oftethe mental mistakes come from the player and there is little the coaches can do

[sfergson727]

15 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

 

It's been suggested that we bring cookies into threads.  Everyone is always happier with cookies.

 

Hey @Mr Coffee The never ending battle is between optimists and pessimists.  When they each see the other post, they come to the conclusion that the whole board is biased.

 

 

Did somebody say cookies?  Sorry, you lost me at cookies, now I have to go search for where my wife hid them.  (thanks for your hard work, I am an admin on another site, and I know what a challenge it can be)

[colt18]

The fact that there are Pagano optimists on this board.....lol 

 

Pags has been holding this team back for a few years now, he should've been fired after 2015. I get that we had much success during Luck's first 3 years in the league, but that definitely wasn't mostly due to him. Arians was the HC during Luck's rookie year. I'll give him credit for Vontae Davis, and keeping the locker room together. But that's where it stops.

 

Pags is a terrible in game coach. The team starts slow every season, routinely gets out-coached by good teams, and loses games where we had a sustainable lead....I mean I've seen this man call a damn timeout with a lead and time running out. We lost the game on a last minute field goal  since when do good coaches lack the ability to close out wins? I didn't even mention that 4th down trick play. Pags should have been fired that night. 

 

Keeping the team motivated isn't enough for a championship head coach, it's not even enough to win a terrible division. Most of the team's success is directly due to Luck making magic happen behind a shoddy offensive line. We need a head coach that can directly help Luck, not hold him back by surround him with terrible play calls, inadequate clock management, sub par in game awareness and worthless mantras.

 

He's gotta go. He's not 100% of the blame, but he has to go.

[Nadine]

3 minutes ago, sfergson727 said:

Did somebody say cookies?  Sorry, you lost me at cookies, now I have to go search for where my wife hid them.  (thanks for your hard work, I am an admin on another site, and I know what a challenge it can be)

See? Cookies change everything!

 

Thanks to you as well!

[PrincetonTiger]

8 minutes ago, colt18 said:

The fact that there are Pagano optimists on this board.....lol 

 

Pags has been holding this team back for a few years now, he should've been fired after 2015. I get that we had much success during Luck's first 3 years in the league, but that definitely wasn't mostly due to him. Arians was the HC during Luck's rookie year. I'll give him credit for Vontae Davis, and keeping the locker room together. But that's where it stops.

 

Pags is a terrible in game coach. The team starts slow every season, routinely gets out-coached by good teams, and loses games where we had a sustainable lead....I mean I've seen this man call a damn timeout with a lead and time running out. We lost the game on a last minute field goal  since when do good coaches lack the ability to close out wins? I didn't even mention that 4th down trick play. Pags should have been fired that night. 

 

Keeping the team motivated isn't enough for a championship head coach, it's not even enough to win a terrible division. Most of the team's success is directly due to Luck making magic happen behind a shoddy offensive line. We need a head coach that can directly help Luck, not hold him back by surround him with terrible play calls, inadequate clock management, sub par in game awareness and worthless mantras.

 

He's gotta go. He's not 100% of the blame, but he has to go.

It just optimist here in TigerTown 

[coltsfansince65]

28 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

 

It's been suggested that we bring cookies into threads.  Everyone is always happier with cookies.

 

Hey @Mr Coffee The never ending battle is between optimists and pessimists.  When they each see the other post, they come to the conclusion that the whole board is biased.

 

 

Can you please make some sugar free?

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, colt18 said:

The fact that there are Pagano optimists on this board.....lol 

 

Pags has been holding this team back for a few years now, he should've been fired after 2015. I get that we had much success during Luck's first 3 years in the league, but that definitely wasn't mostly due to him. Arians was the HC during Luck's rookie year. I'll give him credit for Vontae Davis, and keeping the locker room together. But that's where it stops.

 

Pags is a terrible in game coach. The team starts slow every season, routinely gets out-coached by good teams, and loses games where we had a sustainable lead....I mean I've seen this man call a damn timeout with a lead and time running out. We lost the game on a last minute field goal  since when do good coaches lack the ability to close out wins? I didn't even mention that 4th down trick play. Pags should have been fired that night. 

 

Keeping the team motivated isn't enough for a championship head coach, it's not even enough to win a terrible division. Most of the team's success is directly due to Luck making magic happen behind a shoddy offensive line. We need a head coach that can directly help Luck, not hold him back by surround him with terrible play calls, inadequate clock management, sub par in game awareness and worthless mantras.

 

He's gotta go. He's not 100% of the blame, but he has to go.

I think you will find most people on here want him gone, I do as well but I also think he gets bashed way too much - he did a good job his first 4 years actually, even in 2015 going 8-8 was a miracle with 5 different QB's. His last 2 years haven't cut the mustard so it's time for change. If we took a Poll on this Site, I would guess 80% of people on here want him gone so the optimists are minimal.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think you will find most people on here want him gone, I do as well but I also think he gets bashed way too much - he did a good job his first 4 years actually, even in 2015 going 8-8 was a miracle with 5 different QB's. His last 2 years haven't cut the mustard so it's time for change. If we took a Poll on this Site, I would guess 80% of people on here want him gone so the optimists are minimal.

The sad thing is that everyone has to be labeled 

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I'll give you that, yes they do play hard for him. That's about it

They do play hard for him most of the time, though the Colts do tend to get blow out a little too often.

 

I wish they would play hard for him and win. Playing hard means very little when you don't get a W

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

They do play hard for him most of the time, though the Colts do tend to get blow out a little too often.

 

I wish they would play hard for him and win. Playing hard means very little when you don't get a W

It does in the coaching world and often with decision makers

[azcolt]

Stop? No.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

They do play hard for him most of the time, though the Colts do tend to get blow out a little too often.

 

I wish they would play hard for him and win. Playing hard means very little when you don't get a W

It's an excuse but not having Luck down the stretch in games has probably cost us at least 2 or 3 wins this season. I think it is time for change and Chuck needs to go but to his defense he doesn't have his best player.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's an excuse but not having Luck down the stretch in games has probably cost us at least 2 or 3 wins this season. I think it is time for change and Chuck needs to go but to his defense he doesn't have his best player.

Nicely put 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

  I find it interesting that Eagles fans wanted Pederson gone after they lost to the Chiefs. Now, he should be coach of the year, according to the same fans.

  IF Ballard fires Pagano, so be it. But don’t be shocked if he takes injuries and inexperience into consideration and extends him for a year.

   

 

 

I will be shocked

[JCPatriot]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's an excuse but not having Luck down the stretch in games has probably cost us at least 2 or 3 wins this season. I think it is time for change and Chuck needs to go but to his defense he doesn't have his best player.

 

My opinion of Pagano is not based solely on this season.  My opinion of him has been slowly degrading over time.  This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to this season.  The only time that I have had an abrupt change in opinion regarding him was directly after that ridiculous 4th down play against the Pats.  That was the play where I went from generally supporting him to generally criticizing him.  But again, it wasn't that play by itself.  My opinion had been slowly degrading over time.

[csmopar]

https://youtu.be/6i7VKQwDS2s

 

enough said

[JCPatriot]

Just now, csmopar said:

https://youtu.be/6i7VKQwDS2s

 

enough said

 

Is this what I think it is?

[JCPatriot]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

https://youtu.be/6i7VKQwDS2s

 

enough said

 

Yes it is.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

Is this what I think it is?

Yep

[GwinnettColt]

47 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

JMO but not sure how much CP can do about a lot of this since much of the problems come from physical mistake and oftethe mental mistakes come from the player and there is little the coaches can do

 

I agree that being on the sidelines, Chuck can't control what the players do in terms of mistakes.  I do believe that it's the coach's job to address those things with the players and it's the coordinator's responsibilities to deal with game plans, play calling, and adjustments to the other team during the game.  The coaches are also responsible for team discipline.  TJ Green would probably not have done that in a Belichick defense. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, JCPatriot said:

 

My opinion of Pagano is not based solely on this season.  My opinion of him has been slowly degrading over time.  This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to this season.  The only time that I have had an abrupt change in opinion regarding him was directly after that ridiculous 4th down play against the Pats.  That was the play where I went from generally supporting him to generally criticizing him.  But again, it wasn't that play by itself.  My opinion had been slowly degrading over time.

Last years loss to Houston here in Indy is when I started to sway toward getting rid of him. That was for the Division and should've won that game.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

I agree that being on the sidelines, Chuck can't control what the players do in terms of mistakes.  I do believe that it's the coach's job to address those things with the players and it's the coordinator's responsibilities to deal with game plans, play calling, and adjustments to the other team during the game.  The coaches are also responsible for team discipline.  TJ Green would probably not have done that in a Belichick defense. 

Often team discipline falls to the team leaders

[RockThatBlue]

13 minutes ago, GwinnettColt said:

 

I agree that being on the sidelines, Chuck can't control what the players do in terms of mistakes.  I do believe that it's the coach's job to address those things with the players and it's the coordinator's responsibilities to deal with game plans, play calling, and adjustments to the other team during the game.  The coaches are also responsible for team discipline.  TJ Green would probably not have done that in a Belichick defense. 

TJ Green would've been benched and even possibly cut for that play if he were on the pats 

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, a06cc said:

Did Pagano today tell the offensive line to not pick up the blitzes? Did he tell Tj Green to have a melt down in the second half? 

Did he start TJ Green?  Did he start Aiken over Moncrief?

 

 

trust me he and Chud are the ones that need the blame 

[bluebombers87]

18 minutes ago, csmopar said:

https://youtu.be/6i7VKQwDS2s

 

enough said

They were never supposed to snap the ball. Lame attempt to draw an offsides but you can even see Chuck ask why they snapped it. It was a trick play that the players botched. He took the blame like a coach is supposed to do. Other great coaches have done trick plays. Some work and some don’t.

[GwinnettColt]

7 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Often team discipline falls to the team leaders

 

Perhaps to some extent, but the coach still sets the course and is ultimately responsible as the entire team answers to him. 

[Imrryr]

Look, I was an avid chuck defender up until even this season. I get the arguments but looking at the way the team is (little to no talent development, horribly managed games, an inability to adjust gameplans etc.) I mean its not that they cant win its that they cant adapt which is very important for a coach to be able to do.