Ryan Grigson's O line , the gift that keeps on giving.

[jszfunk]

 

Getting another QB killed./ruined. Luck was punished by it, now Brissett., 29 times .   I know its beating a dead  horse, but what is the first thing you do when you have anything of value? You protect it.  Jacoby is more than a capable QB, basically he is still a rookie to a degree, but getting  punished behind this woeful o line is sad to watch.

[Flash7]

Well, he did write a note saying “protect Luck” and placed it on his desk... but he must’ve lost the note.

[IinD]

4 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Well, he did write a note saying “protect Luck” and placed it on his desk... but he must’ve lost the note.

Lol. I wouldn't have ever said that out loud, because if he gets killed like he has, you've punched you're own ticket out of town with the help of your own words.

[DaColts85]

19 minutes ago, jszfunk said:

 

Getting another QB killed./ruined. Luck was punished by it, now Brissett., 29 times .   I know its beating a dead  horse, but what is the first thing you do when you have anything of value? You protect it.  Jacoby is more than a capable QB, basically he is still a rookie to a degree, but getting  punished behind this woeful o line is sad to watch.

I will say Ballard did say after the draft and Free Agency that he was thankful for the line that Grigson put together and thought it would be good this year.  So 2 GM's apparently have been fooled by this line.  Ballard also did not try to address this in Free Agency like many thought he would.

 

Brissett holds the ball and has shown his rookie ties with his bad field vision at times.  He can make throws but he sits and is slow with moving through his progressions and he does not make throws like some vets would.  Some sacks, including the 10 against the Jags were purely Brissett's fault.

 

I will say though....our line is definitely bad and needs to be addressed in 2018.

[IndyScribe]

5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I will say Ballard did say after the draft and Free Agency that he was thankful for the line that Grigson put together and thought it would be good this year.  So 2 GM's apparently have been fooled by this line.  Ballard also did not try to address this in Free Agency like many thought he would.

 

Brissett holds the ball and has shown his rookie ties with his bad field vision at times.  He can make throws but he sits and is slow with moving through his progressions and he does not make throws like some vets would.  Some sacks, including the 10 against the Jags were purely Brissett's fault.

 

I will say though....our line is definitely bad and needs to be addressed in 2018.

How do you know he didn't try to address it? It's very possible that he tried to sign a player but didn't want to overpay or the player went somewhere else. And when did Ballard say that? I don't remember that quote. I don't think he specifically said it would be good.

[jchandler7]

1 minute ago, IndyScribe said:

How do you know he didn't try to address it? It's very possible that he tried to sign a player but didn't want to overpay or the player went somewhere else. And when did Ballard say that? I don't remember that quote. I don't think he specifically said it would be good.

I also remember Ballard on a podcast making the statement that Grigson left him a good O-line. 

[DaColts85]

Just now, IndyScribe said:

How do you know he didn't try to address it? It's very possible that he tried to sign a player but didn't want to overpay or the player went somewhere else. And when did Ballard say that? I don't remember that quote. I don't think he specifically said it would be good.

My apologies he did not sign anyone to address the line... sorry for the assumption but the key point is still there.

 

He said it on Dakich and JMV.  He thanked Grigson for the line he drafted.  He also said he believed they would be good.  If you go back in their archive you can find it.  It is there but I do not feel like finding it.  Plus JMV brought this up again with Bob Kravitz like 2 days ago I believe.  How he said all of this and the line looks worse than ever.

[B~Town]

Just now, jchandler7 said:

I also remember Ballard on a podcast making the statement that Grigson left him a good O-line. 

To be fair they were young for the most part and trending in the right direction at the end of last season . Hard to predict the total collapse of that unit .

[#12.]

Ballard did say, after viewing film, he was pleasantly surprised by the O-line.

 

Hell, 99% of this forum believed the O-line was set for the future.  Based on what, I have no idea.  It started during the 2016 Vikings game when CBS ran the statistic showing the Colts had only given up 7 sacks in 8 games, or whatever.  After that, conventional wisdom throughout Colts land was the O-line was fixed.  It was overnight.  Before CBS ran that statistic, everyday people were screaming O-line.  After, everything was fine.  The line was set.

 

Throughout the offseason only a handful of us were challenging this notion.

[C0LT5]

43 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Ballard also did not try to address this in Free Agency like many thought he would.

 

Not true at all, we signed Schwenke remember?

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, C0LT5 said:

 

Not true at all, we signed Schwenke remember?

touche 

[throwing BBZ]

If Good had lost 25 lbs and worked hard, and one of Clark or Haeg come back just a little improved
this line should have been decent.
 I EXPECTED Good to come back fat and slow, but Clark to step up.
These players have Failed to step up as expected. It is totally on them.
Mewhort was at least able to Anchor well in pass defense if he could only get a hand of the guy in front of him.
 

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, #12. said:

Ballard did say, after viewing film, he was pleasantly surprised by the O-line.

 

Hell, 99% of this forum believed the O-line was set for the future.  Based on what, I have no idea.  It started during the 2016 Vikings game when CBS ran the statistic showing the Colts had only given up 7 sacks in 8 games, or whatever.  After that, conventional wisdom throughout Colts land was the O-line was fixed.  It was overnight.  Before CBS ran that statistic, everyday people were screaming O-line.  After, everything was fine.  The line was set.

 

Throughout the offseason only a handful of us were challenging this notion.

Just goes to show the fan base takes what the media says and runs with it.

Just let someone from the media put a rumor out and next thing you know there are 5 threads started by forum members on it.

[richard pallo]

40 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

My apologies he did not sign anyone to address the line... sorry for the assumption but the key point is still there.

 

He said it on Dakich and JMV.  He thanked Grigson for the line he drafted.  He also said he believed they would be good.  If you go back in their archive you can find it.  It is there but I do not feel like finding it.  Plus JMV brought this up again with Bob Kravitz like 2 days ago I believe.  How he said all of this and the line looks worse than ever.

Don't forget Philbin's input in this mess.  He helped draft Clark, Haag, Banner etc.  Good however did lose 25 lbs. in the offseason and looked solid before his injury.  Kelly was a no brainer.  They did pass on Whitehair twice.  Philbin fooled Pagano, Grigson , Ballard and Irsay in thinking he had his line set.  He should be shown the door.   

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

If Good had lost 25 lbs and worked hard, and one of Clark or Haeg come back just a little improved
this line should have been decent.
 I EXPECTED Good to come back fat and slow, but Clark to step up.
These players have Failed to step up as expected. It is totally on them.
Mewhort was at least able to Anchor well in pass defense if he could only get a hand of the guy in front of him.
 

Good did lose 25 pounds and came back with a purpose and took back the RT spot.  He wanted it.  I was hoping Haag would add weight and work on increasing his strength but he did not.  He and Clark did not put in the offseason work and are still overmatched.  It definitely shows.  

[DaColts85]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Don't forget Philbin's input in this mess.  He helped draft Clark, Haag, Banner etc.  Good however did lose 25 lbs. in the offseason and looked solid before his injury.  Kelly was a no brainer.  They did pass on Whitehair twice.  Philbin fooled Pagano, Grigson , Ballard and Irsay in thinking he had his line set.  He should be shown the door.   

Passing on Whitehair was painful.  Kelly is solid, and unfortunately Mewhort might have a short career due to knee issues.  Regardless we need depth and I am not sure if Philbin will be replaced or not.

[BobbyMorris94]

To be fair to the line and both GMs, health and continuity is a major factor in a flourishing offensive line. I think if our line was healthy since day one things could be different. I think Kelly is playing hurt, and so was Mewhort until he got IR'd. AC has been doing decent like always, but the rest of the line has been a mess. You can't predict injuries and I think the NFL needs to seriously reevaluate their playing surfaces and use some modern technology on all fields if it's safer.

 

Injuries are a league wide problem. But man we sure do seem to take the brunt of them ever since the Manning debacle. Injuries seem to do in our chances almost every year the past few. And obviously the draft isn't an overnight answer and free agency is a crap shoot.

 

The key to this team's success is a healthy Luck and offensive line. You start shuffling guys on the fly every single Sunday, and we all see the result. So the real question should be, how do we stay healthy? Replacing decent prospects with even better ones will not work out if they can't stay healthy.

[Justin Zima]

12 minutes ago, BobbyMorris94 said:

To be fair to the line and both GMs, health and continuity is a major factor in a flourishing offensive line. I think if our line was healthy since day one things could be different. I think Kelly is playing hurt, and so was Mewhort until he got IR'd. AC has been doing decent like always, but the rest of the line has been a mess. You can't predict injuries and I think the NFL needs to seriously reevaluate their playing surfaces and use some modern technology on all fields if it's safer.

 

Injuries are a league wide problem. But man we sure do seem to take the brunt of them ever since the Manning debacle. Injuries seem to do in our chances almost every year the past few. And obviously the draft isn't an overnight answer and free agency is a crap shoot.

 

The key to this team's success is a healthy Luck and offensive line. You start shuffling guys on the fly every single Sunday, and we all see the result. So the real question should be, how do we stay healthy? Replacing decent prospects with even better ones will not work out if they can't stay healthy.

 

I was thinking the same thing. We have decent pieces on our line but they get shuffled around so often and miss so much time. Ryan Kelly for example plays a damn good center but when you miss 6 weeks it’s hard to get your feet underneath yourself. Castonzo has played a decent LT (he’s been beat a few games) Kalis has played well... As for the others, they get shuffled around too often for them to get any continuity at a spot, if we can keep the line healthy and maybe get a good/great guard this line could be just fine! I’d like to see us find a big mauler in the draft.

 

also want to just give props to the injuried Bond. I thought for an undrafted free agent he preformed very admirably (too many penalties) but preformed way better than to be expected from a guy asked to contribute on such short notice 

[deedub75]

Deflategate karma.  Pats got better and Colts fell apart.  

[K-148]

Ballard wrote a note "Protect Luck". Not "Protect QB" or "Protect Brissett". Brissett was brought to be punished in entertaining way. Tolzien was to bad to watch him getting killed. Looks like that was a plan from the very beginning: entertaining without winning, get high pick in draft, loaded with QBs, spend big in FA next season.

BTW, Luck did not take a single sack this season, so Ballard's plan is working.

[jchandler7]

4 hours ago, B~Town said:

To be fair they were young for the most part and trending in the right direction at the end of last season . Hard to predict the total collapse of that unit .

I didn't say I disagreed or agreed with him. I just said he did make the comment. 

[Blueblazes]

9 hours ago, #12. said:

Ballard did say, after viewing film, he was pleasantly surprised by the O-line.

 

Hell, 99% of this forum believed the O-line was set for the future.  Based on what, I have no idea.  It started during the 2016 Vikings game when CBS ran the statistic showing the Colts had only given up 7 sacks in 8 games, or whatever.  After that, conventional wisdom throughout Colts land was the O-line was fixed.  It was overnight.  Before CBS ran that statistic, everyday people were screaming O-line.  After, everything was fine.  The line was set.

 

Throughout the offseason only a handful of us were challenging this notion.

I thought the same thing my friend. Why in the world would anyone have thought other than Mewhort and maybe Kelly that we were going to have even a decent O line. If someone says that the O line was attempted to be addressed by Ballard, that even says less of Ballard and his ability to evaluate talent. If he thought he was addressing the O line issues, then I have even less respect for his evaluation abilities. And yes, it is possible to have good talent players as well as a good O line. Several teams have accomplished this. Oh yea, we have to spend our money on defense; and how did that turn out? Sorry, I digress. Just saying you are correct.

 

[Blueblazes]

7 hours ago, Justin Zima said:

 

I was thinking the same thing. We have decent pieces on our line but they get shuffled around so often and miss so much time. Ryan Kelly for example plays a damn good center but when you miss 6 weeks it’s hard to get your feet underneath yourself. Castonzo has played a decent LT (he’s been beat a few games) Kalis has played well... As for the others, they get shuffled around too often for them to get any continuity at a spot, if we can keep the line healthy and maybe get a good/great guard this line could be just fine! I’d like to see us find a big mauler in the draft.

 

also want to just give props to the injuried Bond. I thought for an undrafted free agent he preformed very admirably (too many penalties) but preformed way better than to be expected from a guy asked to contribute on such short notice 

Wow, with the several good O linemen you mentioned, we don't need much help there after all.

[SaturdayAllDay]

13 minutes ago, Blueblazes said:

I thought the same thing my friend. Why in the world would anyone have thought other than Mewhort and maybe Kelly that we were going to have even a decent O line. If someone says that the O line was attempted to be addressed by Ballard, that even says less of Ballard and his ability to evaluate talent. If he thought he was addressing the O line issues, then I have even less respect for his evaluation abilities. And yes, it is possible to have good talent players as well as a good O line. Several teams have accomplished this. Oh yea, we have to spend our money on defense; and how did that turn out? Sorry, I digress. Just saying you are correct.

 

The thing is, we had a lot of young guys with potential that were showing improvement as a unit. Eventually when you have a bunch of young guys you have to bite the bullet and see what you have in them. With Luck out for an extended period it was the perfect time to see what we have in our young guys. Unfortunately its not much. Good and Bond got hurt (although they looked to be decent options in limited looks), Clark fell off a cliff, Vujnovich isnt even average, and Haeg is a backup level player at several positions (hes actually a decent replacement for Reitz as our 6th lineman/ key backup). On top of that we lost our promising young center for an extended period (causing yet another setback on the line getting time to gel) and we lost Mewhort, a solid vet that held down his position well. 

 

You cant really question Ballards evaluating yet because that is what hes doing. Right now as the season goes on. He said as much going into the season that he was evaluating the team from top to bottom in 2017 and making decisions from there. We cant really make judgements on his evaluating until he actually finishes. We are stuck waiting until he does or doesnt make the necessary changes next yr. 

[will426]

It's not fully the line the playcalling ruins them lol as well they all lack technique 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

10 hours ago, B~Town said:

To be fair they were young for the most part and trending in the right direction at the end of last season . Hard to predict the total collapse of that unit .

 

Losing Kelly AND his backup wasn’t great. Mewhort’s done for the season. Denzelle Good’s been out since what, week 2? And it looks like Castonzo will miss time now. That’s 4 starters that will have missed significant time at some point, & it’s only the halfway point. It’s hard to pin this one on Ryan Grigson.

[Douzer]

The "O-Line is fixed" comment, and threads generated by it, left me shaking my head at the time. I was solidly in the 'it's not fixed" camp.

 

Beyond that though, Chud should get called out for his stubbornness or inability to adapt his playbook and play calling, to better match the protection capacity of this group. Too often I think he gets off the hook for his role in the beat downs occurring behind the line of scrimmage.

 

Just sayin...

[chrisfarley]

11 hours ago, jszfunk said:

 

Getting another QB killed./ruined. Luck was punished by it, now Brissett., 29 times .   I know its beating a dead  horse, but what is the first thing you do when you have anything of value? You protect it.  Jacoby is more than a capable QB, basically he is still a rookie to a degree, but getting  punished behind this woeful o line is sad to watch.

Notice how he gets up really slow as the season wears on after taking beatings.  Tell-tale signs.  The Colts staff just puts WD-40 on joints but only when they start squeaking.  

[Justin Zima]

I never said the O-Line is fixed, it’s very clearly terrible, like really really terrible. Giving up 10 sacks against Jacksonville was absolutely pathetic... 

 

All I was saying was there are some guys that we have that will stick around even with us fixing the line. Kelly does a good job that’s pretty clear when watching the games he’s played in, Castonzo is overrated but serviceable. Mewhort is pretty much pumped into that same catergory overrated but serviceable. Clark,Good, and Vujnovich are all terrible. I was saying I think a lot of the regression we’ve seen from especially Clark has come from no continuity on which side of the line he has to play on.

 

futhernore some of the issue we’ve seen with sack do have to fall on Jacoby Brissett, while watching the games I like some things I see from him but pocket presence and awareness is not his strong suit, he needs to be more decisive and more aware of his surroundings.

[lollygagger8]

Grigson should be made to stand in the QB spot, do a couple 5 step drops behind the O-line he made and have the Jags defense T-off on him 

[CopenhagenColt]

I honestly don't know what the fix is. But it should be obvious that it needs to be fixed.

I find it astonishing, that this is still by far our biggest problem. It has been that way since before Luck was drafted.

I don't care about recievers, tight ends or linebackers - Fix that O-line once and for all.

[OLD FAN MAN]

if we have to get a new qb wait a few years until the o-line is fixed

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:09 AM, DaColts85 said:

I will say Ballard did say after the draft and Free Agency that he was thankful for the line that Grigson put together and thought it would be good this year.  So 2 GM's apparently have been fooled by this line.  Ballard also did not try to address this in Free Agency like many thought he would.

 

Brissett holds the ball and has shown his rookie ties with his bad field vision at times.  He can make throws but he sits and is slow with moving through his progressions and he does not make throws like some vets would.  Some sacks, including the 10 against the Jags were purely Brissett's fault.

 

I will say though....our line is definitely bad and needs to be addressed in 2018.

True but bringing in a qb this late brisket is going to be slow in his  progressions  not surprising.  He does however hold the ball too long sometimes surprisingly Andrew luck does too!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 11/2/2017 at 7:30 PM, Douzer said:

The "O-Line is fixed" comment, and threads generated by it, left me shaking my head at the time. I was solidly in the 'it's not fixed" camp.

 

Beyond that though, Chud should get called out for his stubbornness or inability to adapt his playbook and play calling, to better match the protection capacity of this group. Too often I think he gets off the hook for his role in the beat downs occurring behind the line of scrimmage.

 

Just sayin...

This is true if the ol can't block and the colts are being blitzed many downs you can't call long developing please there is not much room for success you have to call more quick hitters slants and such just sayin!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On 11/2/2017 at 6:45 PM, SaturdayAllDay said:

The thing is, we had a lot of young guys with potential that were showing improvement as a unit. Eventually when you have a bunch of young guys you have to bite the bullet and see what you have in them. With Luck out for an extended period it was the perfect time to see what we have in our young guys. Unfortunately its not much. Good and Bond got hurt (although they looked to be decent options in limited looks), Clark fell off a cliff, Vujnovich isnt even average, and Haeg is a backup level player at several positions (hes actually a decent replacement for Reitz as our 6th lineman/ key backup). On top of that we lost our promising young center for an extended period (causing yet another setback on the line getting time to gel) and we lost Mewhort, a solid vet that held down his position well. 

 

You cant really question Ballards evaluating yet because that is what hes doing. Right now as the season goes on. He said as much going into the season that he was evaluating the team from top to bottom in 2017 and making decisions from there. We cant really make judgements on his evaluating until he actually finishes. We are stuck waiting until he does or doesnt make the necessary changes next yr. 

No not yet but Ballard may have overrated the line and he/they whiffed on banner a 4th round pick!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

On a good note I thought the kallis kid looked pretty good last week!