Offensive Line is Offensive

[D-lineman]

My brothers I hate to say I told you so but.,,,, Last spring me and a few other me,bees were clamoring for offensive line picks early in the draft. Captain Obvious from Q95 fame could see Mewhort was going to have chronic knee issues, Joe Haeg lacked the horsepower, and Castonzo inconsistent. Franchise player 12  chronically hurt due in part to poor offensive line.  So many holes to fill and games won or lost in the trenches. Colts have to focus on the offensive line next year or 12 will be out again.  I want some mean and nasty dudes on that O-Line. Bad breath, spitting fire raw meat eating lineman 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, D-lineman said:

My brothers I hate to say I told you so but.,,,, Last spring me and a few other me,bees were clamoring for offensive line picks early in the draft. Captain Obvious from Q95 fame could see Mewhort was going to have chronic knee issues, Joe Haeg lacked the horsepower, and Castonzo inconsistent. Franchise player 12  chronically hurt due in part to poor offensive line.  So many holes to fill and games won or lost in the trenches. Colts have to focus on the offensive line next year or 12 will be out again.  I want some mean and nasty dudes on that O-Line. Bad breath, spitting fire raw meat eating lineman 

 

Oh, the irony.....

 

Why would you make this post after last night?

 

In case you weren't watching,   last night was the best the O-line looked all season.     Both the pass protectin and the run blocking were dramatically improved.     I'm sorry you didn't notice that.     Even Gruden was very complimentary of the line play. 

 

You're a new poster.     Welcome to the website.     Hope you enjoy it.      But this post?     It's a headscratcher.

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

Titans blitzed constantly for a huge part of the 2nd half.  Despite all that there were no sacks. 

[Jason_]

21 minutes ago, D-lineman said:

My brothers I hate to say I told you so but

 

no you don't...and on top of that you're wrong.  See NCF's post.

[tikyle]

Even though the line played it's best game, it's not like they were terrific.  And the OP is correct.  When the Titans started to blitz the O line communication totally broke down.  When the Titans started to blitz the run lanes totally disappeared.  And while there was no recorded sack that grounding penalty is a defacto sack and Brissett was under pressure the entire 2nd half.  I will say though, for that line to be playing with 2-3 backups last night it held up extremely well given the circumstances.

[pgt_rob]

Well, the line has looked a lot worse so this is a step in the right direction. One major key factor here is... injuries! I know it's a lame excuse but when your 1st and 2nd round O-Linemen are out for extended amounts of time, it causes a lot of issues. A lot of us here are very critical of the O-Line. The constant blitzing last night should be a reflection on Chud or maybe even Brissett to call the right play to beat the blitz. Only so much the O-Line can do.

[Coffeedrinker]

Without watching the game again, there was not a time when a lineman was just beat by the other guy.

 

There was a time when Titans ran a stunt and Clark was slow coming off the double team and didn't get position.  Kelly got pushed into the ball carrier on another play but it wasn't by the guy he was blocking it was by someone else flowing to the play.

 

Doyle did a poor job of pass blocking on a few occasions but that is not on the oline

 

Once the Titans started blitzing, it wasn't the olineman that stopped communicating and broke down, it was the offensive play calling and Brissett not recognizing the blitz pre snap.  brissett gets a pass because he's a young QB going up against one of the best DCs in the past 40 years.  Chud does not get a pass.

[WoolMagnet]

49 minutes ago, D-lineman said:

My brothers I hate to say I told you so but.,,,, Last spring me and a few other me,bees were clamoring for offensive line picks early in the draft. Captain Obvious from Q95 fame could see Mewhort was going to have chronic knee issues, Joe Haeg lacked the horsepower, and Castonzo inconsistent. Franchise player 12  chronically hurt due in part to poor offensive line.  So many holes to fill and games won or lost in the trenches. Colts have to focus on the offensive line next year or 12 will be out again.  I want some mean and nasty dudes on that O-Line. Bad breath, spitting fire raw meat eating lineman 

Pat yourself on the back Mr Obvious.

[tikyle]

7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Without watching the game again, there was not a time when a lineman was just beat by the other guy.

 

There was.  In the 2nd half when they started blitzing and it was 1-on-1 down the entire line those guys were getting beat easily.  I remember one play vividly where Casey beat his man in less than 2 seconds.  Brissett just got way and chucked it out of bounds.

[richard pallo]

The line was okay in the 1st. half but the Titan defense was pretty vanilla.  Second half they ramped up the blitzes and more stunting.  Clark was lost in the second half.  Starting Clark was a desperation move.  Maybe he can improve but learning a new position on the fly during the regular season could have terrible consequences.  I blame this OL mess on Philbin.  Poor coaching and poor evaluator of talent?  Not sure which it is.  They didn't go hard after the OL last offseason season.  Looks like Philbin thought he had his starters and was he wrong.  Ballard needs to make the OL a major if not THE major area of focus this offseason.  After this start Irsay should demand it.  No ands ifs or buts about it!

[DaColts85]

We did pretty well from a line standpoint last night.  Clark did well at G.  If Good can come back and play well at RT and maybe get Haeg to replace Vuj we could finally develop continuity and do what we did the last few games last year.

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Oh, the irony.....

 

Why would you make this post after last night?

 

In case you weren't watching,   last night was the best the O-line looked all season.     Both the pass protectin and the run blocking were dramatically improved.     I'm sorry you didn't notice that.     Even Gruden was very complimentary of the line play. 

 

You're a new poster.     Welcome to the website.     Hope you enjoy it.      But this post?     It's a headscratcher.

 

 

I thought the line wasn't the problem last night but coaching and the defense that 1 year later still cant stop my 81 year old grandmother was the reason we lost.

[Hoose]

59 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The line was okay in the 1st. half but the Titan defense was pretty vanilla.  Second half they ramped up the blitzes and more stunting.  Clark was lost in the second half.  Starting Clark was a desperation move.  Maybe he can improve but learning a new position on the fly during the regular season could have terrible consequences.  I blame this OL mess on Philbin.  Poor coaching and poor evaluator of talent?  Not sure which it is.  They didn't go hard after the OL last offseason season.  Looks like Philbin thought he had his starters and was he wrong.  Ballard needs to make the OL a major if not THE major area of focus this offseason.  After this start Irsay should demand it.  No ands ifs or buts about it!

You know, when they all out blitz like that you don't go empty backfield 90% of the time and you don't try to throw downfield 20+ yards and you try to run a draw or something once in a while. None of that occurred. The play calling was awful. Just awful. Chud is bad. So bad. The line was doing fine. But with the Titans coming all out with their ears pinned back, the O-line can't block em all. You have to scheme for that. Instead...nothing.  No adjustments. Don't blame the O line. They played better last night. 

[richard pallo]

35 minutes ago, Hoose said:

You know, when they all out blitz like that you don't go empty backfield 90% of the time and you don't try to throw downfield 20+ yards and you try to run a draw or something once in a while. None of that occurred. The play calling was awful. Just awful. Chud is bad. So bad. The line was doing fine. But with the Titans coming all out with their ears pinned back, the O-line can't block em all. You have to scheme for that. Instead...nothing.  No adjustments. Don't blame the O line. They played better last night. 

You can also blame an inexperienced quarterback who can not recognize defensive changes and can not audible out of a play and get into a better play.  This is where Luck makes a huge difference.  This is a makeshift OL with an inexperienced QB.  Not a good pairing but with Luck they have a much better chance to succeed. 

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I thought the line wasn't the problem last night but coaching and the defense that 1 year later still cant stop my 81 year old grandmother was the reason we lost.

 

then you weren't watching the game.

[jameszeigler834]

19 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

then you weren't watching the game.

Ya I was defense sucked in the second half the offense didn't sustain any drives and there was plays to be made we just didn't make them.

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya I was defense sucked in the second half fourth quarter BECAUSE the offense didn't sustain any drives and there was plays to be made we just didn't make them.

 

there, fixed it for you

[a06cc]

They were okay as expected IMO against Tenn. They see them twice a year so. I know what your saying. The line will be addressed next offseason. 

[akcolt]

10 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

We did pretty well from a line standpoint last night.  Clark did well at G.  If Good can come back and play well at RT and maybe get Haeg to replace Vuj we could finally develop continuity and do what we did the last few games last year.

Haeg is a T not a G. He doesn't have the anchor to play inside full time. Why do we need to see that again? This is Haeg!s second solid game at RT since stepping in this season. It wouldn't surprise me if he settles in there.

 

Good I'm not so sure he's comibg back this year  I hear the board saying he will be back but I have yet to see a link. Good had a solid game week 1 at RT. He hasn't been great out there in his career  I don't think he automatically gets the RT job back if he returns 

[jameszeigler834]

8 hours ago, J@son said:

 

there, fixed it for you

You could easily include the 3rd quarter that is where it started to unravel for us.

[Track Guy]

IMHO he's actually got a point. There was a really strong myth going around last off season on this forum that our O-line was fixed. For some reason Haeg and Clark were crowned off of very small sample sizes of promising, but far from dominant play and we really did nothing of any use to address the O-line last off season. 

[The Peytonator]

Let’s not be so hard on OP, he’s a D-lineman, you can’t expect him to understand the intricacies of offensive line play. 

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

IMHO he's actually got a point. There was a really strong myth going around last off season on this forum that our O-line was fixed. For some reason Haeg and Clark were crowned off of very small sample sizes of promising, but far from dominant play and we really did nothing of any use to address the O-line last off season. 

 

It wasn't a myth.

 

The Colts went from having a bottom-5 OL in the first 9-10 games of the season to one of the best in the league the last 6-7 games of the season.   I think we gave up 9 sacks the last 6-7 games.    That's not a myth.

 

Now...   I don't pretend to know what happened this off-season, but clearly something did. 

 

[akcolt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It wasn't a myth.

 

The Colts went from having a bottom-5 OL in the first 9-10 games of the season to one of the best in the league the last 6-7 games of the season.   I think we gave up 9 sacks the last 6-7 games.    That's not a myth.

 

Now...   I don't pretend to know what happened this off-season, but clearly something did. 

 

The injury to Kelly had a lot to do with our problems. Then trying to turn Haeg into a G despite the film clearly showing he didn't have the anchor to play inside full time. That set us back but if Schwenke was healthy that may not have been a huge problem. We reallly never saw him play but the Titans were quick to reclaim him.  Clark's move from starting RT to being behind Vuj Good and Haeg was the big shocker. 

 

We had zero sacks last night in Kelly's second game back. Castonzo has settled down. Haeg had another solid game at RT after looking shaky. Clark played well for his first start at RG. Maybe that will be his spot. We need him to help the OL somewhere. The last thing we need is another top 100 pick to bust.  

 

The future doesn't look good for Mewhort. As a result we are going to be in the market for a starting G. Unless we get lucky and find someone turning over the bottom of the roster. We need Clark and Haeg to hold down the right side. We don't want to be in the position of needing to find  2 starting G's and a RT.  We really need Clark to figure it out at any position, 

 

I think we will see Kelly continue to make the OL better. He will get the reads right and make the right calls. That's no knock on Bond. The kid played better than we could've hoped. 

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

You could easily include the 3rd quarter that is where it started to unravel for us.

 

The 3rd qtr where we opened with a 3 and out and a shortfield turnover? Maybe you grandma is a better goal line back than the Titans have because IIRC we held then to 3 off that one.

 

 

[zibby43]

13 hours ago, J@son said:

 

there, fixed it for you

 

Not the poster you were responding to but there's a reason the Colts are last in the league in 4th quarter point differential.

 

Colts are second-to-last in the league in Total Defense.

 

The secondary gives up the most explosive downfield plays of any secondary in the league.

 

There is nothing that even remotely resembles a pass rush.  The Colts couldn't pressure a QB playing on one leg or shut down a RB running on one leg.  But the Dolphins' defense was able to generate tremendous amounts of pressure on the Titans. 

 

Now, some of that is scheme, I'll admit.  However, the rest of it is lack of talent, lack of depth, absence of fundamentals, and inferior conditioning/stamina.

 

Are there some rays of hope?  Yeah.  Hairston is pretty good.  Simon plays his butt off and competes.  Hankins and Woods do some good things inside.

 

Hooker has been up and down.  Pretty sure the Colts' D was in Quarter, Quarter, Half (zone) defense on the game-sealing TD pass.  Hooker was responsible for the post and the corner, and he just straight up didn't get right depth and got swallowed up/blown by.

[DaColts85]

7 hours ago, akcolt said:

Haeg is a T not a G. He doesn't have the anchor to play inside full time. Why do we need to see that again? This is Haeg!s second solid game at RT since stepping in this season. It wouldn't surprise me if he settles in there.

 

Good I'm not so sure he's comibg back this year  I hear the board saying he will be back but I have yet to see a link. Good had a solid game week 1 at RT. He hasn't been great out there in his career  I don't think he automatically gets the RT job back if he returns 

To me Haeg is our next Joe Reitz.  I have said it multiple times.  He to me is our guy that can play all but Center in a crunch.  Now can he be replaced...most definitely.  I am just not liking Vuj, even though he was not terrible Monday night.  If Good comes back this year, and you are right it is a big IF, then he will be RT.  If he struggles then Haeg is right there.  If he doesn't then I beat Haeg becomes competition for Vuj again.  Just my opinion obviously but if we can play like we did Monday night and finally get some consistency, we might start to look halfway decent.  Not fixed by any means though! 

[rockywoj]

Given all of the OL woes, I wonder if they regret so quickly giving up on Banner,  I am still surprised they released him.  Unless they truly saw that, oops, he’s clueless and just physically never going to get there, it seems like that giving up on a highly drafted OL prospect so quickly was perhaps, imprudent, especially when there were so many OL question marks even at the end of training camp.

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Given all of the OL woes, I wonder if they regret so quickly giving up on Banner,  I am still surprised they released him.  Unless they truly saw that, oops, he’s clueless and just physically never going to get there, it seems like that giving up on a highly drafted OL prospect so quickly was perhaps, imprudent, especially when there were so many OL question marks even at the end of training camp.

At the time you had only Kelly injured though.  Hard to look back on it now because you see the injuries that they couldn't when making cuts before the season started.

[rockywoj]

4 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

At the time you had only Kelly injured though.  Hard to look back on it now because you see the injuries that they couldn't when making cuts before the season started.

I think if that was their view, then it was horribly short sighted, especially given the Colts’ OL injury history.  I think it should have been a given that they would sustain OL injuries.  It seems to be the new normal.   When they released Banner, forgetting about him, at the time I just thought they were going into the season short of numbers on the OL.  

 

So, contrary to your point, I foresaw the OL injuries, because it happens every year. If I could see it, they should have, too!

[DaColts85]

25 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I think if that was their view, then it was horribly short sighted, especially given the Colts’ OL injury history.  I think it should have been a given that they would sustain OL injuries.  It seems to be the new normal.   When they released Banner, forgetting about him, at the time I just thought they were going into the season short of numbers on the OL.  

 

So, contrary to your point, I foresaw the OL injuries, because it happens every year. If I could see it, they should have, too!

Well there is also a whole roster to consider...injuries in those areas.  You had CB that was thin and WR just in week 1.  Plus, to your point they had 9 OL guys on the roster...you wanted 10?

[Coffeedrinker]

20 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

There was.  In the 2nd half when they started blitzing and it was 1-on-1 down the entire line those guys were getting beat easily.  I remember one play vividly where Casey beat his man in less than 2 seconds.  Brissett just got way and chucked it out of bounds.

Oh my word.  There is a difference between getting beat and there being more guys than can be blocked.

 

And the play you are talking about with Casey, is the one that I mentioned where he looped to the inside and Clark was slow to slide over..

 

[King Colt]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Oh, the irony.....

 

Why would you make this post after last night?

 

In case you weren't watching,   last night was the best the O-line looked all season.     Both the pass protectin and the run blocking were dramatically improved.     I'm sorry you didn't notice that.     Even Gruden was very complimentary of the line play. 

 

You're a new poster.     Welcome to the website.     Hope you enjoy it.      But this post?     It's a headscratcher.

 

 

One game after years if being hideous. Why did they lose? Why did they collapse in the second half?

[tikyle]

37 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh my word.  There is a difference between getting beat and there being more guys than can be blocked.

 

And the play you are talking about with Casey, is the one that I mentioned where he looped to the inside and Clark was slow to slide over..

 

 

Casey is a DT, he's already on the inside, he can't loop to where he already is.  On the play I'm referring to he just did a swim move and easily got by the RG.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, King Colt said:

One game after years if being hideous. Why did they lose? Why did they collapse in the second half?

 

First,  it's NOT one game.....     the O-line was outstanding the last 6-7 games of 2016.

 

Second,  the line wasn't the issue why we lost Monday night.      The young quarterback was.     Brissett is a talented kid,   but he's got a lot to learn as all young quarterbacks do.     

 

The blitzes that came in the 2nd half are blitzes that Luck can handle....    but most young quarterbacks struggle with them.      Once the offense couldn't move the ball,  we were screwed.     You can only keep the defense on the field for so long before bad things start to happen.

 

Look.....    you're likely going to get your wish after this season.     Pagano will get fired.    Most of the staff will likely go with him.       Are you going to throw a fit each week we melt down?       Because you'll be doing a lot of it.     And what's the point?    The staff will soon be gone,  maybe not as fast as you'd like,   but they'll be gone.      And a new staff will come in and hopefully that will lead to much, much better football.     It's just a matter of time...

 

 

[OHColtfan]

Have not been happy with our O-line at any time this year, but considering we kind of threw this group together in a couple of days after Mewhort got hurt, they really didn't play all that bad. Still need a lot of work, but can't be all that displeased with how this group did.

[jameszeigler834]

16 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

The 3rd qtr where we opened with a 3 and out and a shortfield turnover? Maybe you grandma is a better goal line back than the Titans have because IIRC we held then to 3 off that one.

 

 

And maybe you forgot that our offense did next to nothing in the second half and that played a big role in why we lost. Defense although I am happy that they held them to field goals for most of the game the only problem is they couldn't stop them from getting down there.

[Track Guy]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

First,  it's NOT one game.....     the O-line was outstanding the last 6-7 games of 2016.

 

Outstanding is a stretch imo. There was positive momentum there but they had a schedule where they faced some of the teams that tallied the lowest sack totals in the NFL. Plus even when they're not giving up sacks - there's still pressures to be considered not to mention run blocking. 

 

Now don't get me wrong - I do agree that they played much better the back half of last year than at the front half of it or what we've seen in the front half of this year. We'll see if they can have a similar mid season improvement sometime soon. 

[SteelCityColt]

4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

And maybe you forgot that our offense did next to nothing in the second half and that played a big role in why we lost. Defense although I am happy that they held them to field goals for most of the game the only problem is they couldn't stop them from getting down there.

 

Well no, I’d obviously not forgot as that was my point...

[krunk]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:29 AM, akcolt said:

The injury to Kelly had a lot to do with our problems. Then trying to turn Haeg into a G despite the film clearly showing he didn't have the anchor to play inside full time. That set us back but if Schwenke was healthy that may not have been a huge problem. We reallly never saw him play but the Titans were quick to reclaim him.  Clark's move from starting RT to being behind Vuj Good and Haeg was the big shocker. 

 

We had zero sacks last night in Kelly's second game back. Castonzo has settled down. Haeg had another solid game at RT after looking shaky. Clark played well for his first start at RG. Maybe that will be his spot. We need him to help the OL somewhere. The last thing we need is another top 100 pick to bust.  

 

The future doesn't look good for Mewhort. As a result we are going to be in the market for a starting G. Unless we get lucky and find someone turning over the bottom of the roster. We need Clark and Haeg to hold down the right side. We don't want to be in the position of needing to find  2 starting G's and a RT.  We really need Clark to figure it out at any position, 

 

I think we will see Kelly continue to make the OL better. He will get the reads right and make the right calls. That's no knock on Bond. The kid played better than we could've hoped. 

Sort of wish we'd had Clark in there much earlier learning and playing the position as he seems like he'll be a decent fit there. .  Could have allowed Mewhort to rest a little bit maybe and get that knee healed.  Maybe he wouldn't be on IR right now.