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Cornerback - Who Plays?


DaveA1102

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As of now, this Monday it looks as though we will be in a position to have Wilson and Hairston back in the lineup.  With that said, who do we play at corner with Davis, Melvin, Wilson, Hairston and Desir all having shown promise?

 

You would assume that Hairston will be used as the nickel, where he has performed very well so far, and Desir would potentially be moved to special teams, but what about the other three?

 

Davis should be your number one guy but he has looked very rusty these last two weeks.  Hopefully he kicks that rust off soon as some big plays have come off his back.

Melvin has been our most consistent performer this year, and the PFF grades back that up.  He has been tough to beat and really been a surprising asset to the secondary.

Wilson has flashed and looked good when available, and will likely be our corner of the future, but how does he get ahead of the other two?

 

A great position to be in compared to us grabbing guys off the street to start last year! 

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I know some aren’t counting on Geathers this year but with the corner depth and Fairley playing well, they might be able to work in Geathers as a dime linebacker until he’s 100% or plays so well, they have to start him.

    As far as CBs starting, that’s a good problem to have. 

     I remember the Raiders having Hayes and Haines who were two shutdown corners and how they changed the game. Davis at his best is that. Who can be the other shutdown corner? You could say Wilson, Melvin and Dishir could. Maybe it will depend on health and who the opponent is. 

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13 minutes ago, ColtJ82 said:

Is this the deepest secondary the Colts have ever had?

 

It may be but they sure aren't producing yet.  A bunch of guys who flash on some plays and who are completely out of position on others.  It's so helter skelter I don't know if it's them or the play calling.

 

My thing is put these guys in press man and let's see what they got.  It's better than playing 10 yards off and giving mediocre QB's easy throwing opportunities.

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I'd like to see Quincy matched up against the bigger receivers going forward. Wilson is great at countering that physical presence big WRs bring to the table. I just worry who Indy will have covering TEs going forward. Their ILB play in coverage has been awful. When is Anthony Walker supposed to be back? He supposedly is good in coverage. 

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6 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Melvin, Hairston are locks imo. Davis probably plays over Wilson unless they factor Davis' injury into the equation. 

I agree. I think Wilson might eventually be Davis replacement if he goes looking for big money. I agree with others...flashing right now...but we need consistency from all of them...but its a nice problem to have. Heck that isn't even counting Green if we keep him out there as well. Players just need to keep getting reps.

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30 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I agree. I think Wilson might eventually be Davis replacement if he goes looking for big money. I agree with others...flashing right now...but we need consistency from all of them...but its a nice problem to have. Heck that isn't even counting Green if we keep him out there as well. Players just need to keep getting reps.

This and as they get more reps, their chemistry will be stronger.  Luck will be able to drive the offense, but if our secondary can improve in the coming weeks and be top 20 in the final 8 weeks, we become a serious threat to other teams seeking a super bowl. 

 

Another note: last year our offensive line improved exponentially from first half of the season to second half. If this happens again, Luck will have better protection than Brissett has seen. Who knows if it happens, but our 2nd half of football struggles carried over. Could that?

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I'm interested to see how much tighter defense we play against the Titans.

We've been playing nothing but teams we don't have much familiarity with

so far.  I imagine we will play even better against divisional opponents who

we have great familiarity with.

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13 hours ago, Superman said:

Assuming everyone is healthy enough to play, Melvin gets almost all reps, Davis and Wilson split reps, Hairston gets most reps at nickel. Desir is inactive, Kenny Moore is the better STer.

Davis had 100% snaps against the 49ers, why would he split reps now?  I think Melvin would split the reps if anything.

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:25 AM, DaveA1102 said:

As of now, this Monday it looks as though we will be in a position to have Wilson and Hairston back in the lineup.  With that said, who do we play at corner with Davis, Melvin, Wilson, Hairston and Desir all having shown promise?

 

You would assume that Hairston will be used as the nickel, where he has performed very well so far, and Desir would potentially be moved to special teams, but what about the other three?

 

Davis should be your number one guy but he has looked very rusty these last two weeks.  Hopefully he kicks that rust off soon as some big plays have come off his back.

Melvin has been our most consistent performer this year, and the PFF grades back that up.  He has been tough to beat and really been a surprising asset to the secondary.

Wilson has flashed and looked good when available, and will likely be our corner of the future, but how does he get ahead of the other two?

 

A great position to be in compared to us grabbing guys off the street to start last year! 

melvin was getting abused last week.  davis was not.  davis is by far our most consistent cb

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On 10/12/2017 at 6:05 PM, Superman said:

Assuming everyone is healthy enough to play, Melvin gets almost all reps, Davis and Wilson split reps, Hairston gets most reps at nickel. Desir is inactive, Kenny Moore is the better STer.

 

According to Holder, it sounds like Wilson may be a healthy scratch, which is asinine.

 

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6 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

According to Holder, it sounds like Wilson may be a healthy scratch, which is asinine.

 

When I read that i flipped my lid.. whoever makes that decision needs to be fired if that happens... choosing Pierre over Wilson is just insane.

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13 hours ago, will426 said:

Davis doesn't look unhealthy he's just not being used the way he's supposed to be as all our corners are..

 

21 minutes ago, Smitto said:

When I read that i flipped my lid.. whoever makes that decision needs to be fired if that happens... choosing Pierre over Wilson is just insane.

:facepalm:

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As bad as I hated him before this season. Melvin is playing like a star and having a pro bowl type season. No crap lol. Idk if he's figured it out and has blossomed into a star for good. Or if this is just a one hit wonder like we see from time to time with players. But he's balling so he's playing on one side. Vontae on the other. Then I'd say Wilson and Hairston splits time as the nickel and 4th CB, with both getting reps here and there too. One will probably outplay the other even if it's just by a hair and get the majority of time as CB3. But they'll still basically split reps IMO. They're both apart of the future. But that's awesome as it creates competition with our young guys. Hopefully Davis stops playing like a mediocre corner and starts balling too. Which I do expect as should everyone else. But yeah. Then Desir has done well too. But there's no room for him other than 5th corner, special teams, and getting a handful of snaps a game. We actually have a good group of corners. Now lol. And.... The top 5 is this. 

 

Davis

Melvin

Wilson

Hairston 

Desir

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:52 AM, ColtJ82 said:

Is this the deepest secondary the Colts have ever had?

 

On 10/12/2017 at 12:59 PM, Coffeedrinker said:

No, that was 2006.  Harper, David, Hayden, Jackson and Jennings.  But this group has potential.

we also had sanders and bethea at safety 

 

the group we have now isnt close to that team, they were second in pass defense 

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2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Agreed. Keeping a bonafide defensive playmaker off the field because he’s not a special teams guy is beyond dumb. I don’t see Malik Hooker on special teams, doesn’t seem to effect his playing time.

 

I'm not sure Wilson is a bonafide defensive playmaker at this point. I'm a fan of him because I think he'll be good, but so far, he gets beat as much as he makes a good play. And there's been something going on with him since the offseason, for some reason he doesn't have the full trust of the coaching staff, and the fact that he can't seem to stay on the field for more than a couple weeks in a row probably has something to do with it.

 

Meanwhile, guys like Milton, Moore and Desir are four core STers, and pretty good ones (Moore had a couple awful penalties, but has been pretty good since Week 3). And Desir is a serviceable CB4. You need to dress four safeties, and in a pinch, they'll use Green at CB, who is also a STer.

 

We all know that if you're not a starter, you have to contribute on STs. Wilson doesn't, and it's probably related to his stamina and durability. And while I've been plenty critical of Melvin, I wouldn't give Wilson his spot at this point. In total, they're dressing 9 DBs each week. The non starter CB who can't play STs is the odd man out. 

 

Hooker doesn't play STs, but he's becoming the starter at FS (played all 72 defensive snaps last week), and the other three safeties play significant STs snaps, so it works. And unlike Wilson, Hooker actually is a playmaker already.

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I will blame Ted for the struggles of our corners..if you read one of the latest articles on colts web  he says he wants to play zone but the pass rush must reach the qb..so he's perfectly fine with putting our shutdown man to man corner who struggles with zone in zone coverage? He's forcing our corners to play  zone when we should be playing man. Also for those who want to constantly say it's to keep the play in front of them save it Manusky played man almost 24/7 unless Davis was hurt and we shutdown a lot of explosive offenses with way less talent 

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17 hours ago, will426 said:

I will blame Ted for the struggles of our corners..if you read one of the latest articles on colts web  he says he wants to play zone but the pass rush must reach the qb..so he's perfectly fine with putting our shutdown man to man corner who struggles with zone in zone coverage? He's forcing our corners to play  zone when we should be playing man. Also for those who want to constantly say it's to keep the play in front of them save it Manusky played man almost 24/7 unless Davis was hurt and we shutdown a lot of explosive offenses with way less talent 

manusky did not play man 24/7.  he mixed in a lot of zone as well.  

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2 hours ago, dudeski said:

manusky did not play man 24/7.  he mixed in a lot of zone as well.  

He mixed in a lot of zone When Davis would get hurt but  majority of the time we would play man coverage.when we had Davis butler and toler playing press man we would shut down some good passing offenses other than Pats/Steelers who would utilize that bunch formation and expose us. Go rewatch the games where we would actually look like a good defense without having  a pass rushing threat. He had Davis shadowing #1 receivers in press coverage and everyone else would play too and he would blitz very often to mask our lack of pass rush  especially the year we lost Mathis to his achillies injury. We haven't played zone very often since PM was still in the team I know you've watched and can tell 

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:25 AM, DaveA1102 said:

As of now, this Monday it looks as though we will be in a position to have Wilson and Hairston back in the lineup.  With that said, who do we play at corner with Davis, Melvin, Wilson, Hairston and Desir all having shown promise?

 

You would assume that Hairston will be used as the nickel, where he has performed very well so far, and Desir would potentially be moved to special teams, but what about the other three?

 

Davis should be your number one guy but he has looked very rusty these last two weeks.  Hopefully he kicks that rust off soon as some big plays have come off his back.

Melvin has been our most consistent performer this year, and the PFF grades back that up.  He has been tough to beat and really been a surprising asset to the secondary.

Wilson has flashed and looked good when available, and will likely be our corner of the future, but how does he get ahead of the other two?

 

A great position to be in compared to us grabbing guys off the street to start last year! 

I think depth at corner is a great asset, especially in the second half where the freshest legs usually win. Since that has been an issue, it occurs to me that getting back a couple of quality corners has got to help. Hairston has looked pretty good in the slot and if he can help with Delanie Walker, that would really boost the Colts' chances. Wilson should be able to give both outside corners a blow now and then which will again help in the second half. 

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On 10/12/2017 at 7:27 PM, HectorRoberts said:

I think so! Even though they have the 31st ranked pass defense 

Lol...I get it. We have just had struggles in the secondary for years now. That 2006 team's secondary was good, though they had 2 big advantages (93 and 98). I think our current secondary has potential to be better.

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With corners like Davis and Wilson Colts shouldn't even entertain playing zone defense. Before they had Toler who was a little of liability in man coverage, but now with Wilson and Hairston in the nickel, they should play their press man coverage. I wish Manusky was defense coordinator with these players at his disposal.

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On 10/14/2017 at 12:21 PM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Agreed. Keeping a bonafide defensive playmaker off the field because he’s not a special teams guy is beyond dumb. I don’t see Malik Hooker on special teams, doesn’t seem to effect his playing time.

the difference is hooker is a starter, they want the backups to contribute on special teams

 

i believe wilson isnt  a starter when everyone is healthy 

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On 10/15/2017 at 1:59 PM, will426 said:

He mixed in a lot of zone When Davis would get hurt but  majority of the time we would play man coverage.when we had Davis butler and toler playing press man we would shut down some good passing offenses other than Pats/Steelers who would utilize that bunch formation and expose us. Go rewatch the games where we would actually look like a good defense without having  a pass rushing threat. He had Davis shadowing #1 receivers in press coverage and everyone else would play too and he would blitz very often to mask our lack of pass rush  especially the year we lost Mathis to his achillies injury. We haven't played zone very often since PM was still in the team I know you've watched and can tell 

nope.  this is incorrect.

 

well part of it.  we always have played a lot of zone.  and davis did not travel much with wr's.  the most man we ever played was when we faced the broncos for some reason.  i think that had to do more with needing to get pressure on manning and disrupting his offense.  

 

toler played off constantly.  whether in zone of just playing off man, he wasn't pressing all the time like you think he was.  neither was davis.  although davis did do it more.  

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21 minutes ago, dudeski said:

nope.  this is incorrect.

 

well part of it.  we always have played a lot of zone.  and davis did not travel much with wr's.  the most man we ever played was when we faced the broncos for some reason.  i think that had to do more with needing to get pressure on manning and disrupting his offense.  

 

toler played off constantly.  whether in zone of just playing off man, he wasn't pressing all the time like you think he was.  neither was davis.  although davis did do it more.  

Toler played off coverage but the others pressed I can agree with that but majority of the time we played man and even when we did play zone we pressed we didn't play off coverage like we do now.

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1795161-how-the-indianapolis-colts-re-invented-their-secondary-for-the-2013-season.amp.html

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