League memo

[Nadine]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Remember I come at this from a very different place

Where?

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Nadine said:

Well it wasn't a huge NFL issue before all this. If it goes down to just a couple of teams maybe people can calm down.

We don't live in an authoritarian state.  There is always going to be someone who disagrees.

 

I'm fine with that.

Nicely put

[HOZER]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You have that right just don't tell what to believe 

 

 

My post wasn't  telling you what to believe, it was telling you how I feel about the protesting, what you believe is up to you. And Darn skippy I have that right, as well as many others thanks to the men and women who died for me to have those rights, and for that I will ALWAYS stand at attention and sing the National Anthem in their memory, and you can do as you please as well, thanks to those same men and women. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Nadine said:

Where?

Do to my disability I have experienced some systemic discrimination 

[Gramz]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Although I might not understand why they do it I am proud that they are willing to do it we need more people who have the guts to do it

Well,   I think Enough is Enough.

 

I've not said anything one way or the other since this whole Circus started.      I understand why they want to protest,  I just don't approve of the way they're going about it.   

 

I was raised that when the Anthem is played, you stand with your hand over your heart.   Period.   It's about Respect.

 

I don't like what's been happening, and my silent stance on this all along has been,  If you want to kneel during the Anthem then keep on kneeling throughout the game...   Period.

 

I've tried to be patient, and quiet, and hoping that it would eventually work itself out.     But Enough is Enough.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Gramz said:

Well,   I think Enough is Enough.

 

I've not said anything one way or the other since this whole Circus started.      I understand why they want to protest,  I just don't approve of the way they're going about it.   

 

I was raised that when the Anthem is played, you stand with your hand over your heart.   Period.   It's about Respect.

 

I don't like what's been happening, and my silent stance on this all along has been,  If you want to kneel during the Anthem then keep on kneeling throughout the game...   Period.

 

I've tried to be patient, and quiet, and hoping that it would eventually work itself out.     But Enough is Enough.

 

 

People need to stand to stand up for what they believe no matter what it is that is what the younger generation is not doing

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, Gramz said:

 

I've tried to be patient, and quiet, and hoping that it would eventually work itself out.

it will

[Jules]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Do to my disability I have experienced some systemic discrimination 

 

Like I said in the other thread earlier, we are here for you, don't worry. 

 

It's not that we don't get the causes and the reasons and the important and sometimes scary issues going on, it's just the way it's going about could be changed to unite people better.

 

All right I am done again.  Time to go eat, these sorts of threads are addictive.

[Jules]

I like what someone said earlier about us all just protesting as one to get the Kardashians off tv. I bet that would unify America asap.

 

 

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

People need to stand to stand up for what they believe no matter what it is that is what the younger generation is not doing

No one is saying people shouldn't stand for what they believe in.   Trust Me when I say,   I believe everyone should stand up for what they believe in... Always.

 

But there is a time and a place to do it.   They've made their point,  it's time to move on and put their energy into actually doing something constructive.   What has been happening is way more destructive.   And if you can't see that, then I don't know how to convince you.  

[Yehoodi]

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Unless it is overtly stated you cannot fire someone over a constitutional right

 

  If a company has a Do or Don't requirement a employee or expectant employee must be told or there will be the person can not be fired

 

Technically, this is not true, and given that this subject touches on this "right", i think it is important to know what one can and can not do in a given situation.  

 

A person can not be fired for something that might violate a federal or state law, say discrimination for an example.  Well you can fired them but one will be subject to being sued by the employee under these laws.  Presently, i am not aware of a federal or state law that regulates firing someone based on speech. 

 

The constitution only applies towns, states and the Feds.  The (US) Constitution is the document that created the federal government, giving its powers and limitations, the remainder is vested in the people.   So its this document that limits the power of the governments.  

 

Laws apply to citizen and companies.  The constitutions do not. 

 

A person's "free" speech can be limited at times by others, for instance, when they are employee or invitee.  For example as an invitee to this website i must follow the rules a not bring up political subjects, insult others, etc. 

 

With above said the NFL and its owners can do what ever they want to the employees within the CBA and individual contracts.

 

As the NFL has already limited the use of writing of words on eye black, and it has not been challenged, then it is unlikely that players retained any speech rights in the CBA, and is likely silent on the matter.  As such, the NFL is free to limit acts which are deemed speech, which the kneeling and fist pumps are even though the act do not contain words.    

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Gramz said:

No one is saying people shouldn't stand for what they believe in.   Trust Me when I say,   I believe everyone should stand up for what they believe in... Always.

 

But there is a time and a place to do it.   They've made their point,  it's time to move on and put their energy into actually doing something constructive.   What has been happening is way more destructive.   And if you can't see that, then I don't know how to convince you.  

Someone brought it back up and they do Community work

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Technically, this is not true, and given that this subject touches on this "right", i think it is important to know what one can and can not do in a given situation.  

 

A person can not be fired for something that might violate a federal or state law, say discrimination for an example.  Well you can fired them but one will be subject to being sued by the employee under these laws.  Presently, there is no federal or state law that regulates firing someone based on speech. 

 

The constitution only applies towns, states and the Feds.  The (US) Constitution is the document that created the federal government, giving its powers and limitations, the remainder is vested in the people.   So its this document that limits the power of the governments.  

 

Laws apply to citizen and companies.  The constitutions do not. 

 

A person's "free" speech can be limited at times by others, for instance, when they are employee or invitee.  For example as an invitee to this website i must follow the rules a not bring up political subjects, insult others, etc. 

 

With above said the NFL and its owners can do what ever they want to the employees within the CBA and individual contracts.

 

As the NFL has already limited the use of writing of words on eye black, and it has not been challenged, then it is unlikely that players retained any speech rights in the CBA, and is likely silent on the matter.  As such, the NFL is free to limit acts which are deemed speech, which the kneeling and fist pumps are even though the act do not contain words.    

There is no law that talks about the procedures during the national anthem

 

 Never said it couldn't be done just hard to enforce this year 

[Gramz]

Maybe like @jvan1973 said earlier,  keep those players in the locker room until the Anthem is over.    No one has to be subjected to watching them kneel.

 

 

[HOZER]

I am a Mexican American male. I have been racially profiled many times by both police, employers, teachers, and others. Not once did I consider disrespecting the Flag/Anthem to get attention. I found better ways. I also quickly figured out as a teenager that if you don't give the police a reason to mess with you, they won't. I work side by side with law enforcement, most of them are great people who just want to help their communities.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, GOZER said:

I am a Mexican American male. I have been racially profiled many times by both police, employers, teachers, and others. Not once did I consider disrespecting the Flag/Anthem to get attention. I found better ways. I also quickly figured out as a teenager that if you don't give the police a reason to mess with you, they won't. I work side by side with law enforcement, most of them are great people who just want to help their communities.

That is you but sadly it does happen to others

[Gramz]

Not to get Political,  but I was very very disappointed in VP Pence.    

 

I thought he could have handled it in a much better way....     He supposedly came to support the Colts, and celebrate Peyton.    I really wish instead of focusing on the Negative that he would have put a Positive spin on it.   

 

I really wish he would have said how Proud he was of his Indianapolis Colts for taking the high road and standing together for the Anthem.     

 

But I digress....

 

For someone who vowed to stay silent on this circus act, I've suddenly gotten quite vocal.   

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Gramz said:

Not to get Political,  but I was very very disappointed in VP Pence.    

 

I thought he could have handled it in a much better way....     He supposedly came to support the Colts, and celebrate Peyton.    I really wish instead of focusing on the Negative that he would have put a Positive spin on it.   

 

I really wish he would have said how Proud he was of his Indianapolis Colts for taking the high road and standing together for the Anthem.     

 

But I digress....

 

For someone who vowed to stay silent on this circus act, I've suddenly gotten quite vocal.   

 

 

Same here in TigerTown 

[Nadine]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

There is no law that talks about the procedures during the national anthem

That's true 

But the whole point is coming together.  

Personally, I have no issue at all with someone kneeling quietly.  I'm responsible for what I do and what other people do is up to them.......short of things like setting the building on fire when people are in it.

But, these days we sorely need to find our way back together.  We are too divided and looking for reasons to be more divided. All the time, every day, every where, people are refusing to talk to people are even be in the presence of people with whom they do not align ideologically.

 

That division needs to heal.  I'm not saying that standing will heal it, but neither will kneeling.

[Nadine]

6 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Maybe like @jvan1973 said earlier,  keep those players in the locker room until the Anthem is over.    No one has to be subjected to watching them kneel.

 

 

I think thats a good option.  We'll see what these guys work out.  

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's true 

But the whole point is coming together.  

Personally, I have no issue at all with someone kneeling quietly.  I'm responsible for what I do and what other people do is up to them.......short of things like setting the building on fire when people are in it.

But, these days we sorely need to find our way back together.  We are too divided and looking for reasons to be more divided. All the time, every day, every where, people are refusing to talk to people are even be in the presence of people with whom they do not align ideologically.

 

That division needs to heal.  I'm not saying that standing will heal it, but neither will kneeling.

Very true but that division will heal when every stops worrying about others

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Not to get Political,  but I was very very disappointed in VP Pence.    

 

I thought he could have handled it in a much better way....     He supposedly came to support the Colts, and celebrate Peyton.    I really wish instead of focusing on the Negative that he would have put a Positive spin on it.   

 

I really wish he would have said how Proud he was of his Indianapolis Colts for taking the high road and standing together for the Anthem.     

 

But I digress....

 

For someone who vowed to stay silent on this circus act, I've suddenly gotten quite vocal.   

 

 

It's all part of the whole big deal.

It's everywhere all the time nonstop.

And honestly, I think that some of us have been too quiet for too long.  

We need to start talking to each other imo

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Very true but that division will heal when every stops worrying about others

What do you mean worrying?

[HOZER]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

That is you but sadly it does happen to others

 

Ummm OK......I know that. 

 

Stepping away from this topic for now, need to keep my bp under control. 

 

 

[Gramz]

Just now, GOZER said:

 

Ummm OK......I know that. 

 

Stepping away from this topic for now, need to keep my bp under control. 

 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Nadine said:

What do you mean worrying?

Several things

 It goes back to the biblical quote about the speck and timber

[Yehoodi]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

There is no law that talks about the procedures during the national anthem

 

You are correct there is no law although there is a custom.  But PT, even that is not the heart of the issue. 

 

I think we need to remember what is going on here, in the end of the day, regardless of what is right or not right, proper or not proper, etiquette or not etiquette, or what Emily Post would think, the NFL players are doing the kneeling at the time which irritates some folks and that is the reason why they are doing it at that particular time.  The squeaking wheel gets oil so to speak.  But they have brought up the issue and we need to move on.  

 

There is nothing stopping the players from kneeling like what the Cowboys did a few weeks ago, pregame, taking time out to knee in quite protest.  I found that to be great.  Some have not done this.  It is a great way to quietly continue to get the point across while at the same time not cause division. 

 

And it appears the NFL wants to move forward, point been taken, and lets moved forward with trying to fix the situation as best we can.  We are not going to fix the situation by kneeling at the anthem, we are just gonna get more folks upset.  

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Yehoodi said:

 

You are correct there is no law although there is a custom.  But PT, even that is not the heart of the issue. 

 

I think we need to remember what is going on here, in the end of the day, regardless of what is right or not right, proper or not proper, etiquette or not etiquette, or what Emily Post would think, the NFL players are doing the kneeling at the time which irritates some folks and that is the reason why they are doing it at that particular time.  The squeaking wheel gets oil so to speak.  But they have brought up the issue and we need to move on.  

 

There is nothing stopping the players from kneeling like what the Cowboys did a few weeks ago, pregame, taking time out to knee in quite protest.  I found that to be great.  Some have not done this.  It is a great way to quietly continue to get the point across while at the same time not cause division. 

 

And it appears the NFL wants to move forward, point been taken, and lets moved forward with trying to fix the situation as best we can.  We are not going to fix the situation by kneeling at the anthem, we are just gonna get more folks upset.  

In the same vein it cannot be solved by threatening to fire someone who decides to kneel

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

No but I do think there are similarities but let's s get back to the memo. From the way that espn is describing it, teams can be fined all the way up to losing draft picks if players continue to do it.  That's gonna be a message right there

 

I wonder what would happen if all (Ok, most) players decided to defy this memo. Would the NFL go with replacement players? Would they not play the games?  If so, the NFL would really lose money.  

 

The players are the product. 

[HOZER]

3 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

You are correct there is no law although there is a custom.  But PT, even that is not the heart of the issue. 

 

I think we need to remember what is going on here, in the end of the day, regardless of what is right or not right, proper or not proper, etiquette or not etiquette, or what Emily Post would think, the NFL players are doing the kneeling at the time which irritates some folks and that is the reason why they are doing it at that particular time.  The squeaking wheel gets oil so to speak.  But they have brought up the issue and we need to move on.  

 

There is nothing stopping the players from kneeling like what the Cowboys did a few weeks ago, pregame, taking time out to knee in quite protest.  I found that to be great.  Some have not done this.  It is a great way to quietly continue to get the point across while at the same time not cause division. 

 

And it appears the NFL wants to move forward, point been taken, and lets moved forward with trying to fix the situation as best we can.  We are not going to fix the situation by kneeling at the anthem, we are just gonna get more folks upset.  

I'm a diehard Colts fan and I have now liked two posts written by a diehard Patriots fan......maybe this discussion is uniting us all after all? lol!

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder what would happen if all (Ok, most) players decided to defy this memo. Would the NFL go with replacement players? Would they not play the games?  If So, the NFL will really lose money.

 

The players are the product. 

So true

[2006Coltsbestever]

49 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I think thats the thing too, sports has often been a "safe" topic for most people to have fun with and forget about life with. Now it has been over run at times with politics and it saddens many.

You hit it out of the park with this Post. I watch sports to get away from politics and all the players have done is bring politics into it. Wrong platform to protest on. Your guy LeBron calls the President a bum and people just laugh like it's nothing. That is the president of the US whether you support him or not that is wrong. Jamele Hill calls him a white supremacist and keeps her job and people that hate Trump just laugh at it. Freedom of speech is 1 thing but people cant just go around and say what they want because they are a minority or hate the President. I would never in a million years call Obama names as a white male because it's wrong.

[Nadine]

4 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

You are correct there is no law although there is a custom.  But PT, even that is not the heart of the issue. 

 

I think we need to remember what is going on here, in the end of the day, regardless of what is right or not right, proper or not proper, etiquette or not etiquette, or what Emily Post would think, the NFL players are doing the kneeling at the time which irritates some folks and that is the reason why they are doing it at that particular time.  The squeaking wheel gets oil so to speak.  But they have brought up the issue and we need to move on.  

 

There is nothing stopping the players from kneeling like what the Cowboys did a few weeks ago, pregame, taking time out to knee in quite protest.  I found that to be great.  Some have not done this.  It is a great way to quietly continue to get the point across while at the same time not cause division. 

 

And it appears the NFL wants to move forward, point been taken, and lets moved forward with trying to fix the situation as best we can.  We are not going to fix the situation by kneeling at the anthem, we are just gonna get more folks upset.  

I liked what the cowboys did too but, from what I heard, a lot of people hated it.

Once people get angry..........

 

You know, when they play the national anthem, I always stand but, the time when I felt it most profoundly was after 911.  It was the first time I really felt the unity.  That we are a country, indivisible.

 

How we have become so divided to the point where we want people fired for kneeling is beyond me.  But, that is what needs to be fixed.

 

Honestly, the anthem feels less meaningful to me when I know people are being forced to stand for it.

 

We need to unite again. For real.

[PrincetonTiger]

Maybe I feel differently since I had to tell or remind every professor I had what I could and couldn't do 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I wonder what would happen if all (Ok, most) players decided to defy this memo. Would the NFL go with replacement players? Would they not play the games?  If so, the NFL would really lose money.  

 

The players are the product. 

It will never happen because if they don't play they don't get paid. They make millions dollars to play a kids game and have it made and still protest things. Some of those guys make more money in 1 year than we will ever see in our lifetime. I think the US is treating them pretty great.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Nadine said:

I liked what the cowboys did too but, from what I heard, a lot of people hated it.

Once people get angry..........

 

You know, when they play the national anthem, I always stand but, the time when I felt it most profoundly was after 911.  It was the first time I really felt the unity.  That we are a country, indivisible.

 

How we have become so divided to the point where we want people fired for kneeling is beyond me.  But, that is what needs to be fixed.

 

Honestly, the anthem feels less meaningful to me when I know people are being forced to stand for it.

 

We need to unite again. For real.

There were still problems just everyone put it aside, the same thing happened in 1941 with WWII

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Maybe I feel differently since I had to tell or remind every professor I had what I could and couldn't do 

No doubt. But it's the same for everyone. We all have our reasons

[Nadine]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

There were still problems just everyone put it aside, the same thing happened in 1941 with WWII

I see the parallels as well.

[Yehoodi]

10 minutes ago, Gramz said:

Not to get Political,  but I was very very disappointed in VP Pence.    

 

I thought he could have handled it in a much better way....     He supposedly came to support the Colts, and celebrate Peyton.    I really wish instead of focusing on the Negative that he would have put a Positive spin on it.   

 

I really wish he would have said how Proud he was of his Indianapolis Colts for taking the high road and standing together for the Anthem.     

 

But I digress....

 

For someone who vowed to stay silent on this circus act, I've suddenly gotten quite vocal.   

 

 

 

I would like to add to your point without getting more political and frankly i do not think our posts are technically political under the rules here. 

 

I agree with your earlier point regarding the etiquette regarding the anthem, and also feel disappointed at what VP Pence did.  

 

I will saw however, that Pres Trump's words a few weeks ago and VP Pence's actions this past weekend may have contributed to the NFL actions today.   In at least a good cop bad cop situation.  

 

The NFL is big person on campus across this fine nation, and sometimes it might not listen to the small guys, we fans, but may listen to bigger fish, and there are not much fish bigger than the NFL save our government.   And if their involvement helps things move forward, then in the end, the long term effects are good where the short terms ones may not seem good.   

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Nadine said:

No doubt. But it's the same for everyone. We all have our reasons

I totally understand