The coach of Woody Hayes’ favorite opponent

[azcolt]

Assuming Irsay might now trust his GM to pick his own coach for 2018, it seems like a good time to rekindle discussion of the coach of that university up North beloved most by Woody Hayes. Though the team is 4-1, they look very beatable and will probably finish no better than second in their division — and perhaps third or worse. That’s what happens when you have a team already with a questionable offense that loses its qb to injury. Given their coach has never had a reputation for loving the recruiting grind and Woody’s team seems to love it, isn’t it about time that he returns to the pro game? And what better spot than with a healthy Andrew Luck?

 

BTW, I haven't given up on the idea of the Colts winning the Soft South, but have given up on the idea that Pagano will be back next year unless we at least win the AFC — and pigs fly.

[jskinnz]

First off, should Pagano be let go during the off-season, or even in-season, I think the next Colts' coach is on staff in KC - likely Dave Toub.

 

Personally the idea of Harbaugh to me is not all the exciting.  Something about him as a head coach has always rubbed me the wrong way.  I can see him as the type who wears out his welcome pretty quickly.   Just my two-cents as I realize I could be dead wrong and in the minority.

[richard pallo]

I think the only way he could be our HC is if Irasy makes the hire.  Him and Ballard as a combo strikes me as oil and water.  Will never blend.  I'm not convinced Jim will ever pay top dollar to a name coach.  Let alone give Harbaugh what he wants to leave Michigan.  I do think Pagano will be back if we make the playoffs.  Lots of speculation on Toub but I would not rule out Schottenheimer if they decide to make a change. 

[DaColts85]

Jim Harbaugh will not be a pro coach next year.  He will be the coach at Michigan.  They could lose out the rest of this year, they are not firing him.  He has shown his ability for quick turnarounds and Michigan has not been relevant in awhile.  Now they are!

 

Would he coach here?  Possibly, but as stated above him and Ballard might be Grigson/Pagano 2.0 and we do not need another therapist in the building with drama not on the field.

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

First off, should Pagano be let go during the off-season, or even in-season, I think the next Colts' coach is on staff in KC - likely Dave Toub.

 

Personally the idea of Harbaugh to me is not all the exciting.  Something about him as a head coach has always rubbed me the wrong way.  I can see him as the type who wears out his welcome pretty quickly.   Just my two-cents as I realize I could be dead wrong and in the minority.

IMO you are not off in your assessment in Harbaugh wearing his welcome out quick. He seems to be more of a college coach than a NFL coach. His comfort level is when he is in control. As a head coach in the NFL you have to know how to get along with a GM, an owner and the players. Jim seems to have a problem with that.

[jskinnz]

18 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think the only way he could be our HC is if Irasy makes the hire.  Him and Ballard as a combo strikes me as oil and water.  Will never blend.  I'm not convinced Jim will ever pay top dollar to a name coach.  Let alone give Harbaugh what he wants to leave Michigan.  I do think Pagano will be back if we make the playoffs.  Lots of speculation on Toub but I would not rule out Schottenheimer if they decide to make a change. 

 

Irsay was said to be ready to open up his wallet for Saban or Gruden.  I don't think that is an issue at all.

 

If Harbaugh wanted to leave Michigan for Indy or any NFL job, the money part of it will not be a deciding factor.  

[Flash7]

Coaches, like players have a shelf life. Neither of them will be here for too long.

 

I would not mind Harbaugh for 4 years. He would come in and improve the team. We would be very competitive and have a chance every year with him at a Superbowl. Then he will eventually wear out his welcome and we would be in the same position that we are now -- looking for our next coach. 

 

It's not as big of a risk in my opinion. We would essentially gain 4 years of really good football in exchange for some drama in the back office. He will wear out his welcome, as he has done everywhere he's coached.

[Boiler_Colt]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

Irsay was said to be ready to open up his wallet for Saban or Gruden.  I don't that that is an issue at all.

 

If Harbaugh wanted to leave Michigan for Indy or any NFL job, the money part of it will not be a deciding factor.  

 

Yeah, everybody who knows Jim Irsay says that he wants to make a splash hire and that the main reason why Chuck is still here is that the guys he wanted were not available, or available yet. I don't know where the narrative that Irsay is cheap come from at all.

[Robin]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

Irsay was said to be ready to open up his wallet for Saban or Gruden.  I don't that that is an issue at all.

 

If Harbaugh wanted to leave Michigan for Indy or any NFL job, the money part of it will not be a deciding factor.  

 

If it make us win i'm ready to chip in

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

Irsay was said to be ready to open up his wallet for Saban or Gruden.  I don't that that is an issue at all.

 

If Harbaugh wanted to leave Michigan for Indy or any NFL job, the money part of it will not be a deciding factor.  

 

3 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

 

Yeah, everybody who knows Jim Irsay says that he wants to make a splash hire and that the main reason why Chuck is still here is that the guys he wanted were not available, or available yet. I don't know where the narrative that Irsay is cheap come from at all.

Where is a link showing where Irsay said anything about hiring another coach.

[Boiler_Colt]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

 

Where is a link showing where Irsay said anything about hiring another coach.

Several reports from various outlets including Jay Glazer etc. about him reaching out to Gruden last year and Sean Payton the year before. JMV has stated for several years on his radio show that Irsay has been interested in Harbaugh since 2014. You will not find any direct quote from Irsay as he cannot publicly confirm a coaching search while he actually has a coach in place but the reports were out there at the time. 

 

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Boiler_Colt said:

Several reports from various outlets including Jay Glazer etc. about him reaching out to Gruden last year and Sean Payton the year before. JMV has stated for several years on his radio show that Irsay has been interested in Harbaugh since 2014. You will not find any direct quote from Irsay as he cannot publicly confirm a coaching search while he actually has a coach in place but the reports were out there at the time. 

 

So the only thing you have is media hearsay?

[Boiler_Colt]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So the only thing you have is media hearsay?

 

"I" don't have anything, sir. I just said the reports are out there. If you chose not to believe, I cannot stop you.

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Boiler_Colt said:

 

"I" don't have anything, sir. I just said the reports are out there. If you chose not to believe, I cannot stop you.

I wasn't saying 'you' specific had nothing but I learned a long time ago the media is not the ones you look to for truth.

[Boiler_Colt]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

I wasn't saying 'you' specific had nothing but I learned a long time ago the media is not the ones you look to for truth.

You are 100% correct, but I could provide a counter point and say where there's smoke there's sometimes fire. We know Irsay did meet with Gruden in Houston last January prior to Grigson's firing. At the same time there was an article stating Gruden's desired interest in coming back to coaching ( He was promptly given s raise by ESPN to stay). I trust JMV more than most media yahoos (in fact I dont even watch the News, haven't in years) and he was confirming the Gruden interest and meeting. I for one choose to believe that, but I understand your skepticism on the matter too.

[Peterk2011]

Here are my 2 cents:

- If it's indeed Ballard who'll make the decision, the new HC won't necessarily come from KC. He's already put his own (scouting, etc) staff together, I didn't notice any focus on Kansas. (I think he likes what Seattle is doing though. He has hired one of his main scout from there, and a good number of ex-hawks players already.)

- I doubt that Irsay will ever agree on hiring a "celebrity" coach like Harbaugh, Gruden, etc. If there will be a big name acquisition in the foreseable future, it will be Manning, and not for the HC job. But even that wont happen any time soon.

- I won't ever name a favourite HC candidate of my own. I know nothing, I can't judge them. I just hope, Irsay & Ballard knows their job.

- I won't ever take anyone's HC candidate seriously, until it actually happens. Same reason: according to my experience, fans can more or less judge players, but we absolutely can't judge coaches.  We just can't. We suck at it. Even if we played the game or are/were coaches at some lower level ourselves.

- I am still not convinced 100% that Pagano will go after the season. I know I am in the small minority here with this opinion, but after 2015 and 2016, I won't believe anything until it happens. It's crystal-balling.

 

Ok, so why is this? Why do I feel about the subject like this? Because I'm not convinced.

 

Let me tell you guys something. This is not a judgement, not even an opinion, only a gut feeling. My gut feeling is, that more NFL coaches possess enough knowledge and ability to win it all than we think. This includes me. I am sure I wrote down some coaches myself, who are actually just as good as others, but at the top of the football circus, you sometimes need the circumstances go in your way to be successfull, and you rarely get enough time - or second chance - to prove yourself, it things don't go right immediatelly.

 

Was it really Harbaugh, who made a superbowl team out of the Niners, or was it the boatload of talents they managed to draft within a short 3-4 years period? If it's the former, who was responsible for those excellent drafts? Was it really Harbaugh? If it was really him, why did his team bite the dust suddenly, when that mass production of talents stopped coming? Was it really Pete Carroll, or was it their marvelous run in drafts between 2010-2013? I'm not convinced. If it was Carroll, why did he wait for 30+ years? If it is really Jon Harbaugh, what about the Ravens in the last 2-3 years? If it's really Mike Tomlin, what about the Steelers since 2011? If it's really Sean Payton, then what about the Saints since 2010?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that certain coaches are good, and certain coaches aren't. For example I believe Dungy was an excellent coach, a deserved hall of famer. But why did he was so good in Indy, and why he wasn't as good elsewhere? If he was so good, why was he fired not once, but multiple times before? And what if, one of his previous teams didn't fire him, and he stays there instead of coming to Indy? Would've he been there as good as he was in Indy?

 

There is no perfect coach, every one of them commit mistakes. Shanahan made his in february. A big one. And now he is a HC, and he did make mistakes against the Colts on sunday. And he is still a "good coach". But if he won't turn the Niners over in 2-3 years, I can assure you guys, he will be bad. And when/if that time comes, then it won't matter what he does. If he calls a timeout that is a mistake, if he doesn't, then that is a mistake.  

 

Who do I believe then? What do I want? The majority of this forum is convinced that Pagano is a bad coach. He sucks. Many think his OC, DC suck as well. Okay. Then what about our defensive line this year? Indy didn't have a decent defensive line for ages. And now, finally there's some talent there, and voila, the run defense suddenly works? Why? If our staff sucks, then it doesn't suppose to work, just because a guy named Hankins arrived, does it? Or, maybe our coaches aren't that bad? What's the truth? Why is the secondary bad then? Is that really because our coaching staff can't teach them, can't call a damn game correctly, or is it because there is just less talent there than in our defensive line?

 

You get my point. I will just wait and see how things will turn out.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

Here are my 2 cents:

- If it's indeed Ballard who'll make the decision, the new HC won't necessarily come from KC. He's already put his own (scouting, etc) staff together, I didn't notice any focus on Kansas. (I think he likes what Seattle is doing though. He has hired one of his main scout from there, and a good number of ex-hawks players already.)

- I doubt that Irsay will ever agree on hiring a "celebrity" coach like Harbaugh, Gruden, etc. If there will be a big name acquisition in the foreseable future, it will be Manning, and not for the HC job. But even that wont happen any time soon.

- I won't ever name a favourite HC candidate of my own. I know nothing, I can't judge them. I just hope, Irsay & Ballard knows their job.

- I won't ever take anyone's HC candidate seriously, until it actually happens. Same reason: according to my experience, fans can more or less judge players, but we absolutely can't judge coaches.  We just can't. We suck at it. Even if we played the game or are/were coaches at some lower level ourselves.

- I am still not convinced 100% that Pagano will go after the season. I know I am in the small minority here with this opinion, but after 2015 and 2016, I won't believe anything until it happens. It's crystal-balling.

 

Ok, so why is this? Why do I feel about the subject like this? Because I'm not convinced.

 

Let me tell you guys something. This is not a judgement, not even an opinion, only a gut feeling. My gut feeling is, that more NFL coaches possess enough knowledge and ability to win it all than we think. This includes me. I am sure I wrote down some coaches myself, who are actually just as good as others, but at the top of the football circus, you sometimes need the circumstances go in your way to be successfull, and you rarely get enough time - or second chance - to prove yourself, it things don't go right immediatelly.

 

Was it really Harbaugh, who made a superbowl team out of the Niners, or was it the boatload of talents they managed to draft within a short 3-4 years period? If it's the former, who was responsible for those excellent drafts? Was it really Harbaugh? If it was really him, why did his team bite the dust suddenly, when that mass production of talents stopped coming? Was it really Pete Carroll, or was it their marvelous run in drafts between 2010-2013? I'm not convinced. If it was Carroll, why did he wait for 30+ years? If it is really Jon Harbaugh, what about the Ravens in the last 2-3 years? If it's really Mike Tomlin, what about the Steelers since 2011? If it's really Sean Payton, then what about the Saints since 2010?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that certain coaches are good, and certain coaches aren't. For example I believe Dungy was an excellent coach, a deserved hall of famer. But why did he was so good in Indy, and why he wasn't as good elsewhere? If he was so good, why was he fired not once, but multiple times before? And what if, one of his previous teams didn't fire him, and he stays there instead of coming to Indy? Would've he been there as good as he was in Indy?

 

There is no perfect coach, every one of them commit mistakes. Shanahan made his in february. A big one. And now he is a HC, and he did make mistakes against the Colts on sunday. And he is still a "good coach". But if he won't turn the Niners over in 2-3 years, I can assure you guys, he will be bad. And when/if that time comes, then it won't matter what he does. If he calls a timeout that is a mistake, if he doesn't, then that is a mistake.  

 

Who do I believe then? What do I want? The majority of this forum is convinced that Pagano is a bad coach. He sucks. Many think his OC, DC suck as well. Okay. Then what about our defensive line this year? Indy didn't have a decent defensive line for ages. And now, finally there's some talent there, and voila, the run defense suddenly works? Why? If our staff sucks, then it doesn't suppose to work, just because a guy named Hankins arrived, does it? Or, maybe our coaches aren't that bad? What's the truth? Why is the secondary bad then? Is that really because our coaching staff can't teach them, can't call a damn game correctly, or is it because there is just less talent there than in our defensive line?

 

You get my point. I will just wait and see how things will turn out.

Good post.

A fan forum can be something that starts more rumors and then all of a sudden some think it's truth. IMO I highly doubt Irsay or anyone in the front office puts one ounce of thought into what is said in a forum. If they do they get either a shake of a head or one big chuckle.

There are so many rumors started in a fan forum maybe, just maybe one may end up correct but that would be few and far between.

The media is it's own beast. They start more nonsense just to give them something to talk about and draw the viewers or listeners in for their own ratings.

I been around the NFL long enough to know we as fans find out about changes after they happen.

[jskinnz]

20 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

You are 100% correct, but I could provide a counter point and say where there's smoke there's sometimes fire. We know Irsay did meet with Gruden in Houston last January prior to Grigson's firing. At the same time there was an article stating Gruden's desired interest in coming back to coaching ( He was promptly given s raise by ESPN to stay). I trust JMV more than most media yahoos (in fact I dont even watch the News, haven't in years) and he was confirming the Gruden interest and meeting. I for one choose to believe that, but I understand your skepticism on the matter too.

 

There was absolutely a fire here.  If he could have coaxed Gruden out of the booth or Saban out of Tuscaloosa, they would be coaching here.

[TheJACKCOLT]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

Here are my 2 cents:

- If it's indeed Ballard who'll make the decision, the new HC won't necessarily come from KC. He's already put his own (scouting, etc) staff together, I didn't notice any focus on Kansas. (I think he likes what Seattle is doing though. He has hired one of his main scout from there, and a good number of ex-hawks players already.)

- I doubt that Irsay will ever agree on hiring a "celebrity" coach like Harbaugh, Gruden, etc. If there will be a big name acquisition in the foreseable future, it will be Manning, and not for the HC job. But even that wont happen any time soon.

- I won't ever name a favourite HC candidate of my own. I know nothing, I can't judge them. I just hope, Irsay & Ballard knows their job.

- I won't ever take anyone's HC candidate seriously, until it actually happens. Same reason: according to my experience, fans can more or less judge players, but we absolutely can't judge coaches.  We just can't. We suck at it. Even if we played the game or are/were coaches at some lower level ourselves.

- I am still not convinced 100% that Pagano will go after the season. I know I am in the small minority here with this opinion, but after 2015 and 2016, I won't believe anything until it happens. It's crystal-balling.

 

Ok, so why is this? Why do I feel about the subject like this? Because I'm not convinced.

 

Let me tell you guys something. This is not a judgement, not even an opinion, only a gut feeling. My gut feeling is, that more NFL coaches possess enough knowledge and ability to win it all than we think. This includes me. I am sure I wrote down some coaches myself, who are actually just as good as others, but at the top of the football circus, you sometimes need the circumstances go in your way to be successfull, and you rarely get enough time - or second chance - to prove yourself, it things don't go right immediatelly.

 

Was it really Harbaugh, who made a superbowl team out of the Niners, or was it the boatload of talents they managed to draft within a short 3-4 years period? If it's the former, who was responsible for those excellent drafts? Was it really Harbaugh? If it was really him, why did his team bite the dust suddenly, when that mass production of talents stopped coming? Was it really Pete Carroll, or was it their marvelous run in drafts between 2010-2013? I'm not convinced. If it was Carroll, why did he wait for 30+ years? If it is really Jon Harbaugh, what about the Ravens in the last 2-3 years? If it's really Mike Tomlin, what about the Steelers since 2011? If it's really Sean Payton, then what about the Saints since 2010?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that certain coaches are good, and certain coaches aren't. For example I believe Dungy was an excellent coach, a deserved hall of famer. But why did he was so good in Indy, and why he wasn't as good elsewhere? If he was so good, why was he fired not once, but multiple times before? And what if, one of his previous teams didn't fire him, and he stays there instead of coming to Indy? Would've he been there as good as he was in Indy?

 

There is no perfect coach, every one of them commit mistakes. Shanahan made his in february. A big one. And now he is a HC, and he did make mistakes against the Colts on sunday. And he is still a "good coach". But if he won't turn the Niners over in 2-3 years, I can assure you guys, he will be bad. And when/if that time comes, then it won't matter what he does. If he calls a timeout that is a mistake, if he doesn't, then that is a mistake.  

 

Who do I believe then? What do I want? The majority of this forum is convinced that Pagano is a bad coach. He sucks. Many think his OC, DC suck as well. Okay. Then what about our defensive line this year? Indy didn't have a decent defensive line for ages. And now, finally there's some talent there, and voila, the run defense suddenly works? Why? If our staff sucks, then it doesn't suppose to work, just because a guy named Hankins arrived, does it? Or, maybe our coaches aren't that bad? What's the truth? Why is the secondary bad then? Is that really because our coaching staff can't teach them, can't call a damn game correctly, or is it because there is just less talent there than in our defensive line?

 

You get my point. I will just wait and see how things will turn out.

Dungy was only fired once as a head coach and even though he was let go in Tampa he was very successful there, he only had two head coach positions (Tampa and the Colts) so that part of your post makes no sense at all.

[crazycolt1]

59 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

There was absolutely a fire here.  If he could have coaxed Gruden out of the booth or Saban out of Tuscaloosa, they would be coaching here.

If it was true I am glad neither came here.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

There was absolutely a fire here.  If he could have coaxed Gruden out of the booth or Saban out of Tuscaloosa, they would be coaching here.

Coaxing means money. All it would take is money.  We have the QB everyone wants to coach.  Bottom line we didn't want to pay the money.  Just my opinion of course.  

[azcolt]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I wasn't saying 'you' specific had nothing but I learned a long time ago the media is not the ones you look to for truth.

OK, I’ll tweet Trump and find out the truth. Not sure he cares too much about the Colts though. Maybe his Indiana Veep and super Colts fan would be a better source?

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Coaxing means money. All it would take is money.  We have the QB everyone wants to coach.  Bottom line we didn't want to pay the money.  Just my opinion of course.  

Why would Gruden want to leave the camera?  Why would Saban want a job he doesn't have complete control of and already gets paid like a pro head coach?

[Fisticuffs111]

24 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why would Gruden want to leave the camera?  Why would Saban want a job he doesn't have complete control of and already gets paid like a pro head coach?

Not speaking on Gruden to Colts rumors of the past, but Gruden recently said he wants to coach again. Said he hasn't lost the itch and is preparing to come back to coaching.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Not speaking on Gruden to Colts rumors of the past, but Gruden recently said he wants to coach again. Said he hasn't lost the itch and is preparing to come back to coaching.

That's fine I just hope it's not with the Colts.

[jskinnz]

42 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Coaxing means money. All it would take is money.  We have the QB everyone wants to coach.  Bottom line we didn't want to pay the money.  Just my opinion of course.  

 

It is naive to think this is all about money.  Both those guys have plenty of money and at the "tie them at the hip" press conference, Irsay himself said he could have made a splash in his coaching hire with an 8-figure salary.

 

Lifestyle could be at the top of Gruden's needs and he is making fat cash right now without the pressure of actually coaching a game or dealing with the things that come with it.

 

Saban is the king of Tuscaloosa and the word I have seen repeatedly is that his wife loves it down there.  Maybe he likes being the big fish in a little sea at Alabama.

 

All of this is just speculation to show that money is not the motivating factor for everyone.  And for the right guy, Irsay would absolutely pay it.

[jskinnz]

40 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why would Gruden want to leave the camera?  Why would Saban want a job he doesn't have complete control of and already gets paid like a pro head coach?

 

Completely reasonable questions.  I agree.  Money is not the single motivating factor for guys like that.

[crazycolt1]

55 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Coaxing means money. All it would take is money.  We have the QB everyone wants to coach.  Bottom line we didn't want to pay the money.  Just my opinion of course.  

I disagree. Both these guys don't need money. Both have enough right now if they quit working right now they have enough to carry them through death.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I disagree. Both these guys don't need money. Both have enough right now if they quit working right now they have enough to carry them through death.

I disagree.  They don't need money but they want more money and won't move unless they get paid more money than they are currently making.  No one moves for less. 

[BR-549]

It amazes me at how many different threads and how many different ways we can present the question of who is coaching the Colts..... next.