PFF Analysis of Colts Performance

[DaColts85]

22 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Who thinks that?  He lost his job because his replacement played better than him.  Ask Drew Bledsoe.  In 2012 (regular season) Smith and Kaepernick had the exact same number of pass attempts, 218.  Smith had a higher % 70.2 to Kaepernicks 62.4.  Kaepernick threw for 100 more yards, 2 less INT and 3 less TDs and had a higher QBR.  Kaepernick also had 415 rushing yards to Smith's 132 rushing yds.  He was the better option....period.  And to say they kept the wrong QB is silly too.  If Kaepernick was on KC now and Alex Smith played with the nothing that was on SF last year, you really think Smith would have done better?  Did you see Smith's 2013 and 2014 in KC?  Andy Reid with Kaepernick and the guys he has now would look even better than that one season he had a healthy Mike Vick and the Eagles offense was crazy.  An offensive genius like Andy Reid with a QB like Kaepernick would be something we've never seen before.  We saw what Harbaugh did with him and he's no Andy Reid.  People need to not confuse Kaepernick with how he's being portrayed now.  This is the guy that put up 25 points in the 2nd half of the Superbowl vs that Ravens defense, the same Ravens defense that held Tom Brady to 13 total points two weeks earlier (shut Brady out in the 2nd half and Brady threw 54 times).

Lets calm down on the Kaep glory here.  I will play devils advocate with this...

 

He will never be the talent that Vick was....not even close!  Would Reid be able to do something with him maybe, but I will not speculate any greatness as you are.  Plus that Ravens D you speak of only allowed him to score twice.  Gore had the other TD.  Don't confuse the scoring to just Kaep, as the team did a lot with Akers being a key contributor.  He was 57% with 300 yards with 1TD and 1 INT (hold the glorification please) 1 Rushing TD and Gore still had 110 yards rushing with a TD with a 5.8 YPC.  Also, a key stat to go with this is the L they took with Kaep having like 3 incomplete passes to end the game.

[tikyle]

58 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Lets calm down on the Kaep glory here.  I will play devils advocate with this...

 

He will never be the talent that Vick was....not even close!  Would Reid be able to do something with him maybe, but I will not speculate any greatness as you are.  Plus that Ravens D you speak of only allowed him to score twice.  Gore had the other TD.  Don't confuse the scoring to just Kaep, as the team did a lot with Akers being a key contributor.  He was 57% with 300 yards with 1TD and 1 INT (hold the glorification please) 1 Rushing TD and Gore still had 110 yards rushing with a TD with a 5.8 YPC.  Also, a key stat to go with this is the L they took with Kaep having like 3 incomplete passes to end the game.

 

Kaepernick out played Tom Brady 2 weeks later vs the same team.  When have you ever said that about Brady (or Vick for that matter).  You can think he doesn't have greatness but you can't refute he didn't get the job done.  You can't give up 34 points to Joe Flacco (ever) and think you are going to beat the Ravens.

 

My whole point is he's hands down better than Alex Smith.  And if you don't think his supporting cast is the reason for his crazy amazing stats, look at Joe Flacco.  When he had Boldin and Ray Rice and Caldwell as OC he was a totally different QB than he's been the last 3 seasons or so.

[DaColts85]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Kaepernick out played Tom Brady 2 weeks later vs the same team.  When have you ever said that about Brady (or Vick for that matter).  You can think he doesn't have greatness but you can't refute he didn't get the job done.  You can't give up 34 points to Joe Flacco (ever) and think you are going to beat the Ravens.

 

My whole point is he's hands down better than Alex Smith.  And if you don't think his supporting cast is the reason for his crazy amazing stats, look at Joe Flacco.  When he had Boldin and Ray Rice and Caldwell as OC he was a totally different QB than he's been the last 3 seasons or so.

Well I will say that the 49ers had an extremely solid defense that lead them to the Super Bowl.  So the comparison against Tom Brady...no thank you!

 

Alex Smith has shown that he is not a terrible QB and Andy Reid has been able to show his good characteristics.  Is Kaep better, well he is not playing so I cannot answer that?  I can say that Smith is looking like an MVP right now.  I have never though Flacco was that good but when it mattered in the Playoffs he was electric and damn near perfect.  Supporting cast or not he made some great throws and did not turn the ball over...he got that ring and that is what matters!

[tikyle]

1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

Well I will say that the 49ers had an extremely solid defense that lead them to the Super Bowl.  So the comparison against Tom Brady...no thank you!

 

Alex Smith has shown that he is not a terrible QB and Andy Reid has been able to show his good characteristics.  Is Kaep better, well he is not playing so I cannot answer that?  I can say that Smith is looking like an MVP right now.  I have never though Flacco was that good but when it mattered in the Playoffs he was electric and damn near perfect.  Supporting cast or not he made some great throws and did not turn the ball over...he got that ring and that is what matters!

 

What does Kaepernick's defense have to do with Tom Brady?  The Pats played Baltimore and gave up 28 points and only scored 13.  The 49ers played that same Baltimore team 2 weeks later and gave up 34 points and scored 31.  Again, I ask what does the 49ers defense have to do with Tom Brady?

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

 

Who thinks that?  He lost his job because his replacement played better than him.  Ask Drew Bledsoe.  In 2012 (regular season) Smith and Kaepernick had the exact same number of pass attempts, 218.  Smith had a higher % 70.2 to Kaepernicks 62.4.  Kaepernick threw for 100 more yards, 2 less INT and 3 less TDs and had a higher QBR.  Kaepernick also had 415 rushing yards to Smith's 132 rushing yds.  He was the better option....period.  And to say they kept the wrong QB is silly too.  If Kaepernick was on KC now and Alex Smith played with the nothing that was on SF last year, you really think Smith would have done better?  Did you see Smith's 2013 and 2014 in KC?  Andy Reid with Kaepernick and the guys he has now would look even better than that one season he had a healthy Mike Vick and the Eagles offense was crazy.  An offensive genius like Andy Reid with a QB like Kaepernick would be something we've never seen before.  We saw what Harbaugh did with him and he's no Andy Reid.  People need to not confuse Kaepernick with how he's being portrayed now.  This is the guy that put up 25 points in the 2nd half of the Superbowl vs that Ravens defense, the same Ravens defense that held Tom Brady to 13 total points two weeks earlier (shut Brady out in the 2nd half and Brady threw 54 times).

Who thinks that?  A lot of people.  You say Kap played better and yet he had a lower completion percentage and lower TDs.  I guess more yards and more rushing yards means he played better?

 

To the rest, yes SF would have been better last year with A. Smith than they were with Kap.  No, KC would not be better with Kap than they are with A. Smith.  You  say people should not confuse Kap with how he is portrayed now and yet according to you we are supposed to look at what Kap did 5 years ago to see how great he is?  Nice logic there.

 

And yes I saw Alex Smith in 2013 and 2014.  Living in the KC area for the past 5-1/2 and being married to a Chiefs fan I see more Chiefs stuff than I want. In 2013, even though he was playing with a new team and a new offensive system he still did better than Kap did in SF.  

 

Lastly, yet, it's obvious SF kept the wrong QB as evidence I use... Smith is still in the league and Kap is not.  You can claim it's because of his protest but it has more to do with his inability to read a D, lack of accuracy beyond 10 yards, his inability to read the entire field (Harbuagh set up the O so he only had to focus on half the field) his 11-24 record, 41 TD to 19 INTs and a pathetic 6.8 yards per attempt.

[DaColts85]

8 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

What does Kaepernick's defense have to do with Tom Brady?  The Pats played Baltimore and gave up 28 points and only scored 13.  The 49ers played that same Baltimore team 2 weeks later and gave up 34 points and scored 31.  Again, I ask what does the 49ers defense have to do with Tom Brady?

I might have misunderstood the original point I guess.  Anyways I will definitely say...the whole comparison thing will not go to far.  His numbers versus Baltimore compared to Brady's versus Baltimore means nothing to me (2 completely different games).  If that is your argument than no thanks on that.

[tikyle]

17 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Who thinks that?  A lot of people.  You say Kap played better and yet he had a lower completion percentage and lower TDs.  I guess more yards and more rushing yards means he played better?

 

To the rest, yes SF would have been better last year with A. Smith than they were with Kap.  No, KC would not be better with Kap than they are with A. Smith.  You  say people should not confuse Kap with how he is portrayed now and yet according to you we are supposed to look at what Kap did 5 years ago to see how great he is?  Nice logic there.

 

And yes I saw Alex Smith in 2013 and 2014.  Living in the KC area for the past 5-1/2 and being married to a Chiefs fan I see more Chiefs stuff than I want. In 2013, even though he was playing with a new team and a new offensive system he still did better than Kap did in SF.  

 

Lastly, yet, it's obvious SF kept the wrong QB as evidence I use... Smith is still in the league and Kap is not.  You can claim it's because of his protest but it has more to do with his inability to read a D, lack of accuracy beyond 10 yards, his inability to read the entire field (Harbuagh set up the O so he only had to focus on half the field) his 11-24 record, 41 TD to 19 INTs and a pathetic 6.8 yards per attempt.

 

Wow.

 

I really can't even begin to have a conversation with you if you suggest Kaepernick is not in the NFL because of his play.  You can't sit there and watch the likes of Blake Bortles, Scott Tolzien, Deshone Kizer, Mike Glennon, Jay Cutlter, Case Keenum, etc, etc, etc. and sit here and say any (and especially not all) of those bums are better than Kaepernick.  I mean if you can't admit that then there's no reason to even begin.  Because you start out by saying Alex Smith has a higher completion percentage than Kaepernick the year they split time and then finish with how poor his yards per attempt are now.  But you omitted that his yards per attempt was much higher the same year he and Alex Smith shared time, his INT% was lower, he accounted for more TDs and yards and turned the ball over less.  But nope.  You omit that.  And then you have the audacity to say he's not in the league because of his play when he had 16 TD and 4 INT with that slop the 49ers put out there last year, but Blake Bortles in a much worse division with stars all around him had 23 TD and 16 INT and went 3-13 with the Jags last year.  Kaepernick has never played with a receiver as good as Allen Robinson ever in his career and Bortles has had him almost all of his career.  I just can't.......

 

You can dislike the guy but let's not confuse your feelings about him for what he actually did on the field.  And as for Alex Smith, there's a reason his team traded up to draft a QB in the 1st round.  Alex's stats are great this year, but I contend he's playing just like he has his entire career, he just has game breakers now who take his dump off passes and go the distance.  If you look at his advance stats he right around where he always was.  Near last in the NFL in passing yards in the air and pass yards and completions with the ball traveling 15+ yards in the air.  He is a dink and dunk guy with his play makers doing the heavy lifting.  He is an average QB (not a bad one) and he's always been that.  He's never been special (except in college).  Even if KC wins the Super Bowl this year, Alex will be the same guy.  He's playing with the 2nd coming of Marshall Faulk (Hunt) and the 2nd coming of Gronkowski (Kelce).  And arguably the fastest guy in the NFL (Hill).  And Andy Reid calling the plays.  If you think Kaepernick wouldn't get more out of this offense then you are fooling yourself.  He proved it in SF when all things were equal and he'd do it here.  Just the threat of him running the option with Hunt is terrifying since both have home run speed.

[tikyle]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

He will never be the talent that Vick was....not even close! 

 

He may not be the talent that Vick was, but he was arguably a better player.  His stats prove that out.  And he didn't play with nearly the level of supporting cast as Vick had most of his career.

 

Comparison

 

[Coffeedrinker]

18 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Wow.

 

I really can't even begin to have a conversation with you if you suggest Kaepernick is not in the NFL because of his play.  You can't sit there and watch the likes of Blake Bortles, Scott Tolzien, Deshone Kizer, Mike Glennon, Jay Cutlter, Case Keenum, etc, etc, etc. and sit here and say any (and especially not all) of those bums are better than Kaepernick.  I mean if you can't admit that then there's no reason to even begin.  Because you start out by saying Alex Smith has a higher completion percentage than Kaepernick the year they split time and then finish with how poor his yards per attempt are now.  But you omitted that his yards per attempt was much higher the same year he and Alex Smith shared time, his INT% was lower, he accounted for more TDs and yards and turned the ball over less.  But nope.  You omit that.  And then you have the audacity to say he's not in the league because of his play when he had 16 TD and 4 INT with that slop the 49ers put out there last year, but Blake Bortles in a much worse division with stars all around him had 23 TD and 16 INT and went 3-13 with the Jags last year.  Kaepernick has never played with a receiver as good as Allen Robinson ever in his career and Bortles has had him almost all of his career.  I just can't.......

 

You can dislike the guy but let's not confuse your feelings about him for what he actually did on the field.  And as for Alex Smith, there's a reason his team traded up to draft a QB in the 1st round.  Alex's stats are great this year, but I contend he's playing just like he has his entire career, he just has game breakers now who take his dump off passes and go the distance.  If you look at his advance stats he right around where he always was.  Near last in the NFL in passing yards in the air and pass yards and completions with the ball traveling 15+ yards in the air.  He is a dink and dunk guy with his play makers doing the heavy lifting.  He is an average QB (not a bad one) and he's always been that.  He's never been special (except in college).  Even if KC wins the Super Bowl this year, Alex will be the same guy.  He's playing with the 2nd coming of Marshall Faulk (Hunt) and the 2nd coming of Gronkowski (Kelce).  And arguably the fastest guy in the NFL (Hill).  And Andy Reid calling the plays.  If you think Kaepernick wouldn't get more out of this offense then you are fooling yourself.  He proved it in SF when all things were equal and he'd do it here.  Just the threat of him running the option with Hunt is terrifying since both have home run speed.

Ha, there's a very long post for someone who basically started it by saying there is no reason to begin.

 

Blake Bortles, Case Keenum and Deshone Kizer are all getting the same chance Kap had, and after 5 years when they prove they are not NFL level QBs they will no longer be on a team anymore either.  Mike Glennon and Jay Cutler are much better QBs than Kap ever was.

 

If you think Smith is getting his yards because he's passing short and letting playmakers do the rest then I can tell you have not watched much of the Chiefs this year.  Which means you have a bias in favor of Kap and the facts have no bearing on your analysis of his ability.  Because Kap sucks and just because you mention other QBs like Bortles and Kizer, who also suck, does not mean Kap sucks any less.  Lastly, Kap did not get more out of the SF offense when all things were equal.  he ran for more yards and threw fewer INTs that is it.  He also completed few passes, for fewer TDs.

 

The NFL has proven time and time again that if a player can play at a high level, what they do off the football field means very little.  So if Kap were any good at all, some team would sign him despite the controversy.  But since he at the same level of a Bortles or Keenum or Tolzien, his poor play is not worth the controversy.

[DaColts85]

50 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

He may not be the talent that Vick was, but he was arguably a better player.  His stats prove that out.  And he didn't play with nearly the level of supporting cast as Vick had most of his career.

 

Comparison

 

Please spare me your two year comparison garbage.  I will continue reading the other more interesting topics.

[DaColts85]

58 minutes ago, tikyle said:

And then you have the audacity to say he's not in the league because of his play when he had 16 TD and 4 INT with that slop the 49ers put out there last year, but Blake Bortles in a much worse division with stars all around him had 23 TD and 16 INT and went 3-13 with the Jags last year.  Kaepernick has never played with a receiver as good as Allen Robinson ever in his career and Bortles has had him almost all of his career.  I just can't.......

I am not going to say Bortles was surrounded by stars last year...your argument is becoming laughable.  Torrey Smith is not terrible, plus a good QB elevates his WR's and you forgot to mention Gabbertt started the season because the coaches were not a fan of Kap.  Plus before all the protest stuff they could not even trade him (contract was a huge reason, but this "talent" you mention no one wanted).  You will point to stats but I can rather say maybe the QB is also a factor.  Regardless he has had talent around him.

[tikyle]

44 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Ha, there's a very long post for someone who basically started it by saying there is no reason to begin.

 

Blake Bortles, Case Keenum and Deshone Kizer are all getting the same chance Kap had, and after 5 years when they prove they are not NFL level QBs they will no longer be on a team anymore either.  Mike Glennon and Jay Cutler are much better QBs than Kap ever was.

 

If you think Smith is getting his yards because he's passing short and letting playmakers do the rest then I can tell you have not watched much of the Chiefs this year.  Which means you have a bias in favor of Kap and the facts have no bearing on your analysis of his ability.  Because Kap sucks and just because you mention other QBs like Bortles and Kizer, who also suck, does not mean Kap sucks any less.  Lastly, Kap did not get more out of the SF offense when all things were equal.  he ran for more yards and threw fewer INTs that is it.  He also completed few passes, for fewer TDs AND MORE PASS YARDS AND MORE TOTAL TDS.

 

The NFL has proven time and time again that if a player can play at a high level, what they do off the football field means very little.  So if Kap were any good at all, some team would sign him despite the controversy.  But since he at the same level of a Bortles or Keenum or Tolzien, his poor play is not worth the controversy.

 

I stopped at Mike Glennon.  I just can't........Mike Glennon, Mike Glennon.  M-I-K-E Glennon.  Ha!

[tikyle]

20 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Please spare me your two year comparison garbage.  I will continue reading the other more interesting topics.

 

It was a comparison of their ENTIRE CAREERS, but guess what if you don't look, it doesn't exist.

 

11 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I am not going to say Bortles was surrounded by stars last year...your argument is becoming laughable.  Torrey Smith is not terrible, plus a good QB elevates his WR's and you forgot to mention Gabbertt started the season because the coaches were not a fan of Kap.  Plus before all the protest stuff they could not even trade him (contract was a huge reason, but this "talent" you mention no one wanted).  You will point to stats but I can rather say maybe the QB is also a factor.  Regardless he has had talent around him.

 

Gabbert started the season b/c Kaepernick was not healthy.  Kaepernick was so bad that a hurt Kaepernick replaced Gabbert and kept the job.  They couldn't trade him because of his injury and they couldn't cut him b/c they would have had to pay him, again b/c of his injury.  What are these false realities that you have created?  And then you are throwing out Torrey Smith as if he is even a factor of a player.  You probably don't even know where he plays now.  Bortles #2 WR (Allen Hurns) is on par with Torrey Smith.  Bortles has had Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns, Julius Thomas, TJ Yeldon and Chris Ivory (not counting this year with Fournette and he still is playing horrible).  Kaepernick's talent those same seasons were Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Quinton Patton, Jeremy Kerley, Garrett Celek and Carlos Hyde.  Let's just stop.  Bortles has had the better talent and it's not even a debate.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, tikyle said:

 

It was a comparison of their ENTIRE CAREERS, but guess what if you don't look, it doesn't exist.

 

You are right I did not look at the terrible comparison you have...did not even bother!  Why waste my time?

[tikyle]

Just now, DaColts85 said:

You are right I did not look at the terrible comparison you have...did not even bother!  Why waste my time?

 

That's the American way now, if you don't see it, it must not exist.

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Gabbert started the season b/c Kaepernick was not healthy.  Kaepernick was so bad that a hurt Kaepernick replaced Gabbert and kept the job.  They couldn't trade him because of his injury and they couldn't cut him b/c they would have had to pay him, again b/c of his injury.  What are these false realities that you have created?  And then you are throwing out Torrey Smith as if he is even a factor of a player.  You probably don't even know where he plays now.  Bortles #2 WR (Allen Hurns) is on par with Torrey Smith.  Bortles has had Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns, Julius Thomas, TJ Yeldon and Chris Ivory (not counting this year with Fournette and he still is playing horrible).  Kaepernick's talent those same seasons were Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Quinton Patton, Jeremy Kerley, Garrett Celek and Carlos Hyde.  Let's just stop.  Bortles has had the better talent and it's not even a debate.

Forgot about the injury but did not forget the fact that the injury was not the only reason he could not be traded.  Now you still try to make this terrible argument.  Julius Thomas was decent with Manning.  He has two good WR's and I will give you that.  1 of which they will probably let leave and the other is good not a star.  Now you are going to say Carlos Hyde is less talented than TJ Yeldon and Ivory...you sir are questionable at this football thing.  Torrey Smith was not terrible but playing with the 49ers hurt his career thats for sure.  Nice try at the insult sir but I do know where he plays and I am not going to help you out with that answer...I will let you look it up.

 

Yes please let's stop this...your laughable argument has been amusing though.

[DaColts85]

4 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

That's the American way now, if you don't see it, it must not exist.

Well if...IF Kap ever plays again this might be a comparison.  The first 6 years minus the leg injury Vick was amazing.  Was he the same after sitting....No.  So yes please lets make sure this comparison never happens again...because it is a joke.  Why don't you find a few bad years from Brady and do that comparison too??

[Nadine]

@crazycolt1 @NannyMcafee I've removed a spat between you two in this thread.  Please remember, your fellow posters do not want this sort of thing cluttering up the board

[tikyle]

1 minute ago, DaColts85 said:

Forgot about the injury but did not forget the fact that the injury was not the only reason he could not be traded.  Now you still try to make this terrible argument.  Julius Thomas was decent with Manning.  He has two good WR's and I will give you that.  1 of which they will probably let leave and the other is good not a star.  Now you are going to say Carlos Hyde is less talented than TJ Yeldon and Ivory...you sir are questionable at this football thing.  Torrey Smith was not terrible but playing with the 49ers hurt his career thats for sure.  Nice try at the insult sir but I do know where he plays and I am not going to help you out with that answer...I will let you look it up.

 

Yes please let's stop this...your laughable argument has been amusing though.

 

You just agreed and all you said was Hyde was better than Yeldon and Ivory which is correct.  So what am I missing?  Bortles had a better overall talent group and you admitted it but I'm making laughable arguments?  Why is it so hard for you to admit that?  And to say Allen Robinson is not a star is funny.  If he was on the Colts he'd put up better numbers than TY.  I don't know if you'd consider that a star but it would be damn sure close.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, tikyle said:

 

You just agreed and all you said was Hyde was better than Yeldon and Ivory which is correct.  So what am I missing?  Bortles had a better overall talent group and you admitted it but I'm making laughable arguments?  Why is it so hard for you to admit that?  And to say Allen Robinson is not a star is funny.  If he was on the Colts he'd put up better numbers than TY.  I don't know if you'd consider that a star but it would be damn sure close.

The first part is not me agreeing with you.  Did I disagree with everything no, but as you said "if you don't see it then it doesn't exist, right'?.  I did mention that Kaep being as wonderful as you claim should elevate those around him, right?  I mean greats usually do this, Manning, Brady, etc...  Plus Thomas only played half the year.  SO his name on the roster makes your claim better I guess.  

 

To the bolded, I will say that this is a terrible portion that I guess you feel helps your argument?  TY does not have Robinson's size but that is it.  I will gladly have TY on my team...TY is a star.  Robinson's 73 catches for less than 900 yards is not a star, it is good and he has talent but not a star.  Clearly we have different views!

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/9/2017 at 11:46 PM, Narcosys said:

The problem is, they are saying he is elite based in what they believe he can play, his potential. It hasn't translated onto the field for me. How is he elite if he makes too many negative plays?

 

Andrew Luck is elite because he lifts mediocre teams to levels that other QBs couldn't.

 

See 2012, 13, 14, and 16.

 

That's four out of his five years.   His fifth year,  2015,  Luck was hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

[tikyle]

15 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

The first part is not me agreeing with you.  Did I disagree with everything no, but as you said "if you don't see it then it doesn't exist, right'?.  I did mention that Kaep being as wonderful as you claim should elevate those around him, right?  I mean greats usually do this, Manning, Brady, etc...  Plus Thomas only played half the year.  SO his name on the roster makes your claim better I guess.  

 

To the bolded, I will say that this is a terrible portion that I guess you feel helps your argument?  TY does not have Robinson's size but that is it.  I will gladly have TY on my team...TY is a star.  Robinson's 73 catches for less than 900 yards is not a star, it is good and he has talent but not a star.  Clearly we have different views!

 

Well answer this one for me, is Deandre Hopkins a star?  Is he better than TY?

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

 

Well answer this one for me, is Deandre Hopkins a star?  Is he better than TY?

Do I think Hopkins is a star...yes.  Now Robinson had the strong year with 1,400 yards.  An ok rookie year with 550 yards and his 3rd year after his 1,400.... only 883.  Justify the numbers all you want but I will say IMO Robinson is good and extremely talented, but not a star to me.

 

Hopkins is a star to me because since his rookie year he has never been under 800 yards and followed a 1,200 yard season with 1,500.  He had a great year and then did better the following year.  

 

TY has had some great numbers since he has been here.  look at his stats...no justification needed.  Now clearly you do not understand the differing of opinions on players.  I will always have a different point of view on players (Kap and Robinson) and that does not mean I am right or wrong.  So you can continue down this road but it will lead you no where.

 

I will say that the begin conversation was based on Kap, and I do see him as being talented and to me there are teams that have worse QB's playing than him.  Regardless to all of that I will not say that he was some incredible star, but rather a good QB that flourished in one type of offense.  Jax, since this is the team of your choosing, if they changed their offense to fit Kap, yes he would be a better option for them.  BUT it will not happen so the hypotheticals mean nothing. 

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

Do I think Hopkins is a star...yes.  Now Robinson had the strong year with 1,400 yards.  An ok rookie year with 550 yards and his 3rd year after his 1,400.... only 883.  Justify the numbers all you want but I will say IMO Robinson is good and extremely talented, but not a star to me.

 

Hopkins is a star to me because since his rookie year he has never been under 800 yards and followed a 1,200 yard season with 1,500.  He had a great year and then did better the following year.  

 

TY has had some great numbers since he has been here.  look at his stats...no justification needed.  Now clearly you do not understand the differing of opinions on players.  I will always have a different point of view on players (Kap and Robinson) and that does not mean I am right or wrong.  So you can continue down this road but it will lead you no where.

 

I will say that the begin conversation was based on Kap, and I do see him as being talented and to me there are teams that have worse QB's playing than him.  Regardless to all of that I will not say that he was some incredible star, but rather a good QB that flourished in one type of offense.  Jax, since this is the team of your choosing, if they changed their offense to fit Kap, yes he would be a better option for them.  BUT it will not happen so the hypotheticals mean nothing. 

 

Honestly our view on Kaepernick is the same.  I never said he was some incredible player.  I just said he was a good QB and better than Alex Smith.

 

As for your view on Robinson I just don't get it.  He has a similar career arc as Hopkins (and Dez Bryant) and had a better overall year than Hopkins (or TY for that fact) has ever had.  1400 yds AND 14 TD (that's double TY's best season BTW).  All this with Blake Bortles as his QB.  If Robinson played on a premiere team or had a premiere QB he'd be a household name.

[DaColts85]

22 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Honestly our view on Kaepernick is the same.  I never said he was some incredible player.  I just said he was a good QB and better than Alex Smith.

 

As for your view on Robinson I just don't get it.  He has a similar career arc as Hopkins (and Dez Bryant) and had a better overall year than Hopkins (or TY for that fact) has ever had.  1400 yds AND 14 TD (that's double TY's best season BTW).  All this with Blake Bortles as his QB.  If Robinson played on a premiere team or had a premiere QB he'd be a household name.

IF Robinson did he might...again I do not care for the hypotheticals.  I will say that TD's are key but his best year being yards wise is not better than either Hopkins or TY.  For the TD's portion yea 14 is solid.  I will not argue that but I will say that if he is getting us all the yards to put us in a scoring position and a Gore, Luck, Doyle, or even Moncrief gets the TD I am fine with that. If the 14TD's is all your basing your argument on then I don't know what to tell you.  Julio Jones that same year had damn near 1,900 yards but only 8 TD's....he is a STAR!

[Valpo2004]

On 10/9/2017 at 8:10 PM, Stephen said:

My question is where is moncrief

 

He's busy not catching passes.

 

Moncrief really isn't that good.  Colts should move on from him.  

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

IF Robinson did he might...again I do not care for the hypotheticals.  I will say that TD's are key but his best year being yards wise is not better than either Hopkins or TY.  For the TD's portion yea 14 is solid.  I will not argue that but I will say that if he is getting us all the yards to put us in a scoring position and a Gore, Luck, Doyle, or even Moncrief gets the TD I am fine with that. If the 14TD's is all your basing your argument on then I don't know what to tell you.  Julio Jones that same year had damn near 1,900 yards but only 8 TD's....he is a STAR!

 

I'm not saying TY is not a star.  I just think it's preposterous to say Robinson isn't just as good.  And you bring up Julio.  Julio gets doubled in the red zone.  So does Hopkins and Robinson.  TY doesn't.  Getting all the yards in the world but not being a threat to score inside the 10 is a big deficiency.  He ceases to be a #1 threat in that area.  To rely on Doyle and Gore and Moncrief when you leaned on TY to get their is a the reason why he's not in the Top 5 WR discussions.

 

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

He's busy not catching passes.

 

Moncrief really isn't that good.  Colts should move on from him.  

 

I wouldn't write him off just yet.  As @DaColt85 stated above he's needed in the red zone since we can't count on TY there.  I wouldn't fully judge him until we see what he does with Luck.  Until TY finds ways to be a threat inside the 10 (like Marvin Harrison was as a smallish WR), Moncrief will be a key factor to this offense.

[DaColts85]

26 minutes ago, tikyle said:

I'm not saying TY is not a star.  I just think it's preposterous to say Robinson isn't just as good.  And you bring up Julio.  Julio gets doubled in the red zone.  So does Hopkins and Robinson.  TY doesn't.  Getting all the yards in the world but not being a threat to score inside the 10 is a big deficiency.  He ceases to be a #1 threat in that area.  To rely on Doyle and Gore and Moncrief when you leaned on TY to get their is a the reason why he's not in the Top 5 WR discussions.

I think Robinson is good just not a star or top 10 WR.  Plan and simple sir!  TY is top 10 to me and many others while Robinson is not.

[Valpo2004]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

I'm not saying TY is not a star.  I just think it's preposterous to say Robinson isn't just as good.  And you bring up Julio.  Julio gets doubled in the red zone.  So does Hopkins and Robinson.  TY doesn't.  Getting all the yards in the world but not being a threat to score inside the 10 is a big deficiency.  He ceases to be a #1 threat in that area.  To rely on Doyle and Gore and Moncrief when you leaned on TY to get their is a the reason why he's not in the Top 5 WR discussions.

 

 

I wouldn't write him off just yet.  As @DaColt85 stated above he's needed in the red zone since we can't count on TY there.  I wouldn't fully judge him until we see what he does with Luck.  Until TY finds ways to be a threat inside the 10 (like Marvin Harrison was as a smallish WR), Moncrief will be a key factor to this offense.

 

You can find larger WR's who are red zone threats who can also act as a #2 between the 20's.  

[A8bil]

On 10/10/2017 at 11:06 AM, aaron11 said:

a QB cant do it alone, if the chiefs didnt have talent then it was going to be tough for smith to put up big numbers

 

i think he could have taken that niners team to a super bowl too, kap didnt do anything special besides a run or two.  he didnt put up big numbers either, he never really has

 

smith lost that job to an injury 

 

Smith lost his job to a foolish coach who valued Kaep's athleticism over Smith's accuracy and mind. Smith did enough to beat the Giants the year earlier, but two huge mistakes by Kyle Williams gave the game away.  Kaep's out of the league because he can't read defenses and he can't throw accurately.

[A8bil]

Luck is a very talented QB who needs coaching.  Reminds me of early Elway.  Made spectacular plays, followed by spectacularly bad plays at the worst possible times.  QBs like Luck and Elway are swords for coaches like Pagano...they live by them and die by them...they don't coach them.  Good coaches teach QBs how to exploit defenses, when to take risks and when not to, and teach them the discipline to play within the strategy of the game.  They take advantage of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.  Kubiak finally taught Elway to be a disciplined QB, and play and win within their system.  They won without Elway putting up video game offensive numbers, but with his TD to INT ratio finally in line.  Too many fans judge QBs based on fantasy numbers and ignore that the only objective in the NFL is to win.  With good coaching Luck can be one of the greats. 

[tikyle]

16 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

You can find larger WR's who are red zone threats who can also act as a #2 between the 20's.  

 

Good luck with that.  Start making the list of #2's who are big red zone threats.  But it also hurts those guys if the #1 isn't getting double teamed once you reach that point.  Usually it's going to be the #1 WR or the TE.

[Valpo2004]

6 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

Good luck with that.  Start making the list of #2's who are big red zone threats.  But it also hurts those guys if the #1 isn't getting double teamed once you reach that point.  Usually it's going to be the #1 WR or the TE.

 

Davante Adams - 12 TD's last year and 997 yards.  Has 4 TD's already and 285 yards this year.  

 

But going by last years stats

 

Kenny Stills, Micheal Crabtree, Sterling Shepard, Jamison Crowder.   All of those guys acted as #2's on their team had more then 500 yards and all had 7 or more TD's.

 

To his credit Moncrief had a good season in 2015 getting 733 yards and 6 TD's.  

 

But since then he hasn't.  In 2016 he only got 307 yards but got those 7 TD's.