This is Marlon Macks world

[A8bil]

23 minutes ago, Buddy Lee said:

Yep. TRich was a feature back with plenty of speed. He kept it between the tackles and look where that got him.

I'm only half way serious of course, but if the offensive linemen can't create a hole between the tackles like they are supposed to be doing, do you take the yard and a half or do you take a chance bouncing it outside. In previous games Mack was hit before he got to the line of scrimmage numerous times and it wasn't because the handoff was mishandled or because he is slow. Our interior line just isn't getting the job done much of the time. Yes, Gore has an uncanny knack for getting skinny and getting 3 yards but that isn't going to win you games in today's NFL.

Agreed the O-line isn't getting it done, but I think your assessment of the value of inside running vs. outside is mistaken.  The speed of most NFL defenses will negate most outside runs, unless like yesterday, the defense focuses too much on runs up the middle and lose containment.  Tartt for SF did that multiple times yesterday.  If all you do is run Mack to the outside, every NFL defense will adjust and stop him.  He needs to be able to gash defenses up the middle to set up those outside runs.  And, while those outside runs can look like they provide much more running room, in fact a strong interior run game will often create more opportunities.

 

On outside runs, the sideline effectively acts as an additional defender, forcing the runner to turn upfield or go out of bounds.  Knowing the sideline will force the runner up field gives the pursuing defenders the opportunity to take different angles to cut off the runner depending on the runner's and defender's speed.  Clearly yesterday the 49ers did not adjust for Mack's speed because they took some bad angles, but as a player becomes better known around the league, that becomes less likely and "turning the corner" becomes very difficult.

 

On inside runs, by contrast, if the line opens a hole at the first level the linemen all become meaningless to the play.  The RB then needs a second level block, and if he gets it, he can be sprung for big yardage, particularly when there are 8 men in the box (then there are only 3 deep, and two of them are toward the sidelines on a well designed play).  It's hard on the defenders because the RB doesn't necessarily signal which way he'll cut at the second level, and often LBs and SSs find themselves being blasted by a blindside block. 

 

It's been kinda hard to see how it is supposed to work with the Colts because the line has been so poor at blocking...but go look at Pittsburgh and LeVeon Bell.  He just patiently picks through the line waiting for his blocks develop before he cuts and goes.  (Bell reminds me a lot of a younger Gore BTW.)  You'll see that when the blocking goes well, he gets sprung for big gains.   

[Buddy Lee]

43 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Perhaps if you watch games, you'd see it.  When an o-line actually does it's job and holds it's own, Gore gets to the second level through power running.  The problem is our o-line often times cannot hold it's own and Gore is left fighting like a tank for2-3 yards.  Seems a lot of people see this and think Gore is a useless back, but in reality, most other backs would be stopped at, (if not behind) the line in the exact same situation. 

The power running style of Gore wears down a defense, makes then vulnerable to outside speedsters like Mack.  I seriously doubt Mack has the day he had without Gore punnishing of the front 7.  

Oh, and watch NFL rewind.  Gore has quite a bit of 7-15 yard runs already this season.  His average takes hits on the plays where the o-line breaks down and Gore is met in the backfield by multiple defenders.

 

I beg to differ. Through five games Gore has had 75 carries (15/game avg.) and is averaging 3.2 ypc. Gore absolutely will not and has not worn a single defense down with 15 carries. Maybe you are confusing the present with the past. He is limited to 15 carries because of his age and low ypc. I have seen a few 7-12 yard runs this season from him but not enough to concern a defensive coordinator. That is what you need to do...make the DC focus on stopping the run. Not going to happen with Gore. At 3.2 ypc you get a lot of three and outs.

[WERC82]

Start him and give defense more to think about than minus 2 yards and a cloud of dust on a dive play

[A8bil]

7 minutes ago, WERC82 said:

Start him and give defense more to think about than minus 2 yards and a cloud of dust on a dive play

Who are you referring to?  Only player who has had -2 yards and a cloud of dust this year was Mack.

[A8bil]

14 minutes ago, Buddy Lee said:

I beg to differ. Through five games Gore has had 75 carries (15/game avg.) and is averaging 3.2 ypc. Gore absolutely will not and has not worn a single defense down with 15 carries. Maybe you are confusing the present with the past. He is limited to 15 carries because of his age and low ypc. I have seen a few 7-12 yard runs this season from him but not enough to concern a defensive coordinator. That is what you need to do...make the DC focus on stopping the run. Not going to happen with Gore. At 3.2 ypc you get a lot of three and outs.

You don't understand what you are seeing.  This is a line issue, not a gore issue.  Getting more carries in a game is a matter of score and the offense being able to sustain drives, which means converting on third down plays.

[WERC82]

Look up Gore's average. It is not worthy of a starting role. He starts because his name is Frank Gore.

[Buddy Lee]

33 minutes ago, A8bil said:

Agreed the O-line isn't getting it done, but I think your assessment of the value of inside running vs. outside is mistaken.  The speed of most NFL defenses will negate most outside runs, unless like yesterday, the defense focuses too much on runs up the middle and lose containment.  Tartt for SF did that multiple times yesterday.  If all you do is run Mack to the outside, every NFL defense will adjust and stop him.  He needs to be able to gash defenses up the middle to set up those outside runs.  And, while those outside runs can look like they provide much more running room, in fact a strong interior run game will often create more opportunities.

 

On outside runs, the sideline effectively acts as an additional defender, forcing the runner to turn upfield or go out of bounds.  Knowing the sideline will force the runner up field gives the pursuing defenders the opportunity to take different angles to cut off the runner depending on the runner's and defender's speed.  Clearly yesterday the 49ers did not adjust for Mack's speed because they took some bad angles, but as a player becomes better known around the league, that becomes less likely and "turning the corner" becomes very difficult.

 

On inside runs, by contrast, if the line opens a hole at the first level the linemen all become meaningless to the play.  The RB then needs a second level block, and if he gets it, he can be sprung for big yardage, particularly when there are 8 men in the box (then there are only 3 deep, and two of them are toward the sidelines on a well designed play).  It's hard on the defenders because the RB doesn't necessarily signal which way he'll cut at the second level, and often LBs and SSs find themselves being blasted by a blindside block. 

 

It's been kinda hard to see how it is supposed to work with the Colts because the line has been so poor at blocking...but go look at Pittsburgh and LeVeon Bell.  He just patiently picks through the line waiting for his blocks develop before he cuts and goes.  (Bell reminds me a lot of a younger Gore BTW.)  You'll see that when the blocking goes well, he gets sprung for big gains.   

I wasn't preaching theory here. I get it. There are very real theoretical reasons regarding the sideline being an extra defender, etc.

 

However, I am preaching the current reality of the Colts. If you say it is "kinda hard to see how it is supposed to work with the Colts" it means that the theory doesn't hold up for the Colts because they don't have the interior line to make the theory work in the real world actual games this year. I am living in the cruel reality of "what is" and not "what it should be". What it should be is left to future years, future draft pick and future free agent signings.

 

Right now with Gore, who has an uncanny ability to get skinny and get a few yards when nothing is there, running between the tackles has been relatively fruitless why not try something else? Yes, I'd love to have a Marshawn Lynch type back getting 4.5 yards per pop but that isn't going to happen with this year's Colts. Vuj, not back to snuff yet Mewhort and Haeg are our reality. 

[DaColts85]

5 minutes ago, WERC82 said:

Look up Gore's average. It is not worthy of a starting role. He starts because his name is Frank Gore.

He starts because he is the most complete and dependable back we have.

[Jason_]

42 minutes ago, WERC82 said:

Look up Gore's average. It is not worthy of a starting role. He starts because his name is Frank Gore.

 

try watching the game instead of just looking at the box score.  plenty of times Gore has been stuffed due to horrendously predictable playcalling. 

[colt18]

22 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I can't wait to watch him play alongside Luck. Will be Lucks best running threat of his career, IMO.

Crazy part is Ahmad Bradshaw might have been the best running threat of Luck's career so far, LOL

[throwing BBZ]

12 hours ago, A8bil said:

LOL...the schizophrenia that is the Colts message board.  Mack goes 10 for 24 against the Rams, 6 for -3 against the Cards, and the Board is silent.  Then he goes for 9 for 91 against the 49ers, and he's god.  I understand why they didn't run him at the end.  Ball security was paramount.  Mack is suspect at ball security as it is and we was favoring his arm when he came off the field.  The coaches made the right decision.   Spielman's criticism was just foolish.

 

Look, Mack had a good day and really showed his strengths, but be realistic.  On half the plays, the 49er safety were collapsing into the middle and taking themselves out of position to make a play.  Mack's speed made them pay.  Gore wouldn't in the same situation, but not all defenses will make such gaffs...the Rams and Cards certainly didn't.  

 

 They showed the replays for these people and the bad defense that created the outside space BECOMES,

Ballard is a GENIUS, the kid is a Franchise RB.  The next Marshall Faulk.

 NO!  It was BAD D.  And wise,old, familiar,   CSONKA CSONKA CSONKA CSONKA Mercury Morris MM, CSONKA CSONKA .... MM     It STILL WORKS.
  Yes, if his health holds up, a few more touches are in order.

[Buddy Lee]

23 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

try watching the game instead of just looking at the box score.  plenty of times Gore has been stuffed due to horrendously predictable playcalling. 

It's very difficult to judge Gore's performance because of the poor line play and predictable playcalling. One thing that is impossible to overlook in the "box score" however, is that he carried the ball 263 times last year and had exactly one carry for more than 20 yds. That one was for 22 yds. He's not going to give an opposing defensive coordinator fitful nights sleep game planning against him. Would it surprise you if an opposing DC told his defense to be sure not to bite on a play action? What's the worst that could happen after all if you play pass? Not much.

 

I'm not saying it's primarily Gore, but our between the tackles run game sucks in general.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

If he keeps this up should we call him the Mack Daddy or the Daddy Mack?

[A8bil]

2 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

I wasn't preaching theory here. I get it. There are very real theoretical reasons regarding the sideline being an extra defender, etc.

 

However, I am preaching the current reality of the Colts. If you say it is "kinda hard to see how it is supposed to work with the Colts" it means that the theory doesn't hold up for the Colts because they don't have the interior line to make the theory work in the real world actual games this year. I am living in the cruel reality of "what is" and not "what it should be". What it should be is left to future years, future draft pick and future free agent signings.

 

Right now with Gore, who has an uncanny ability to get skinny and get a few yards when nothing is there, running between the tackles has been relatively fruitless why not try something else? Yes, I'd love to have a Marshawn Lynch type back getting 4.5 yards per pop but that isn't going to happen with this year's Colts. Vuj, not back to snuff yet Mewhort and Haeg are our reality. 

LOL...fair enough, but even Marshawn isn't getting 4.5 yards a pop with the Raiders.  A power running game needs really good guards and everyone on the same page.

[Chucklez]

On 08/10/2017 at 9:45 PM, Dustin said:

 

Gore hasn't shown ability on any type of runs. 

This is just false any which way you cut it.

 

Gore consistently makes something out of nothing, 4 or 5 yards out of 1 or 2 and 9 our 10 out of 4 or 5 yard runs. The man is a chain mover and we are lucky to have him.

[Chucklez]

Gore might not ever breakaway for an 80 yard run, but he is a hell of a lot more dependable on every down than our other rbs, including Mack. For the time being, Mack is the great change of pace back we have been looking for and I'm sure the rest of his game will improve in time.... but gore is and should still be our bell cow.

[Defjamz26]

11 hours ago, #12. said:

He had some spectacular looking runs between the tackles vs. Dallas in preseason, and was hard as hell to bring down.  With better O-line play, with a crease here or there he could do it all, I believe.  Also, once Luck returns, teams won't be stacking the box.  If you spread it out and pass to set up the run, he could be lethal in the old Faulk/Edge role.  Just get him in space.

We shall see. If he has the ability hopefully, they give him enough touches to show it. We need to know exactly what we have in him before the season ends. It will impact what we do in the draft. Sunday was a good start for him.

[Lawrence Owen]

9 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

I beg to differ. Through five games Gore has had 75 carries (15/game avg.) and is averaging 3.2 ypc. Gore absolutely will not and has not worn a single defense down with 15 carries. Maybe you are confusing the present with the past. He is limited to 15 carries because of his age and low ypc. I have seen a few 7-12 yard runs this season from him but not enough to concern a defensive coordinator. That is what you need to do...make the DC focus on stopping the run. Not going to happen with Gore. At 3.2 ypc you get a lot of three and outs.

Gore has been mainly a 1st and 2nd down back. on 3rd and short, (where we often find ourselves) Turbin is in for either blocking or short gainer's.  Those short Turbin run's count with Gore's 15/game average.  Turbin gets the ball atleast 5/game. and 20+ run's inbetween the tackles by power runniners do indeed wear down a defense.  

Either way, We need a different body in at LG and RT.  Good should plug in well at RT when he gets back, and may indded help a lot more on spread runs.  But until we find a suitable guard, that left side is going to be a hinderance in the run game.  Kelly getting back has helped a lot.  SF's run defence is not shabby, (thier pass defense is horrendous tho...lol) Once the o-line is solidified, you'll see even more improvement in that department.

[Lawrence Owen]

9 hours ago, J@son said:

 

try watching the game instead of just looking at the box score.  plenty of times Gore has been stuffed due to horrendously predictable playcalling. 

or just a straight up blown assignment by a certain lg......(not nameing names...lol)

[Chucklez]

3 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Gore has been mainly a 1st and 2nd down back. on 3rd and short, (where we often find ourselves) Turbin is in for either blocking or short gainer's.  Those short Turbin run's count with Gore's 15/game average.  Turbin gets the ball atleast 5/game. and 20+ run's inbetween the tackles by power runniners do indeed wear down a defense.  

Either way, We need a different body in at LG and RT.  Good should plug in well at RT when he gets back, and may indded help a lot more on spread runs.  But until we find a suitable guard, that left side is going to be a hinderance in the run game.  Kelly getting back has helped a lot.  SF's run defence is not shabby, (thier pass defense is horrendous tho...lol) Once the o-line is solidified, you'll see even more improvement in that department.

Kelly coming back was huge. It's a real shame that bond got injured, I tthought he was doing a great job and I think he could easily play guard

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/8/2017 at 1:55 PM, Lawrence Owen said:

Mack has wheels and a little juke, but not much in power. He is THE quintesintial change of pace back.  The reason he gets these long outside runs is because Gore/Turbin pound away at the middle, wearing the front 7 down.  They are doing exactly what is needed for success when it comes to the RB personel.  

 

 

Thank you.

 

Sincerely appreciate this post.

 

Many thanks......

 

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

I beg to differ. Through five games Gore has had 75 carries (15/game avg.) and is averaging 3.2 ypc. Gore absolutely will not and has not worn a single defense down with 15 carries. Maybe you are confusing the present with the past. He is limited to 15 carries because of his age and low ypc. I have seen a few 7-12 yard runs this season from him but not enough to concern a defensive coordinator. That is what you need to do...make the DC focus on stopping the run. Not going to happen with Gore. At 3.2 ypc you get a lot of three and outs.

 

Gore's numbers are down for several reasons.

 

1.    The problems with the O-line.

 

2.    Our QB's have been Scott Tolzen and now Jacoby Brissett.    So, until we have a QB that has proven he needs to be accounted for,  defenses have been focused on Gore.     Now that Brissett is beginning to show more,  we'll see if that helps.     But when Luck comes back,  Gore should do better.

 

 

[DaColts85]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

18 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

I beg to differ. Through five games Gore has had 75 carries (15/game avg.) and is averaging 3.2 ypc. Gore absolutely will not and has not worn a single defense down with 15 carries. Maybe you are confusing the present with the past. He is limited to 15 carries because of his age and low ypc. I have seen a few 7-12 yard runs this season from him but not enough to concern a defensive coordinator. That is what you need to do...make the DC focus on stopping the run. Not going to happen with Gore. At 3.2 ypc you get a lot of three and outs.

 

Gore's numbers are down for several reasons.

 

1.    The problems with the O-line.

 

2.    Our QB's have been Scott Tolzen and now Jacoby Brissett.    So, until we have a QB that has proven he needs to be accounted for,  defenses have been focused on Gore.     Now that Brissett is beginning to show more,  we'll see if that helps.     But when Luck comes back,  Gore should do better.

Also, allow me to piggyback NCF.  We have been down in these games, in some by large margins.  Teams typically abandoned the run when this happens and that is going to equal less carries, less carries for ALL (not just Gore).  Look at the numbers, the next 3 RB's combine for 50 carries... do the math!  It is very simple to see that we are not running as much because we have to throw the ball.

[stitches]

 

[BullsColtsFan1]

I knew his speed would show as soon as he got some holes.  He ran the ball very well yesterday.  Definitely the running back of the future.  If he continues to run like that, the Colts will have a good compliment of runners with Gore, Mack and Turbin.  I like it.

[Qcolts]

Reminds me of Tevin Coleman in Atlanta. Dynamic in space. 

[Wildhog]

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Wildhog said:

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

Mack hasn't been ready for a bigger role because of injury. He did hurt himself this last game.

He has been effective because he hasn't been used as much.

[A8bil]

3 hours ago, Wildhog said:

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

A larger role, means playing not just situationally, but on all downs.  That means, in addition to turning busted plays into big gains....blocking on passing downs where full protection is called for, running up the middle with power and ball security, knowing when and where to release to on check down plays...basically all the things an experienced, every down NFL back does.

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, Wildhog said:

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

When he say that? In the article I read he said he'd be crazy not to get him more touches.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Wildhog said:

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

 

When did Pagano say this?  

 

On Monday Pags said they plan to get him more touches.    And he added they would've given Mack more touches earlier except he got hurt and didn't play for a couple of games. 

 

 

[akcolt]

7 hours ago, Wildhog said:

Thoughts on Pagano saying that Mack isn't ready for a larger role?  Just seems like he's too explosive to not get more touches. 

Do you have a link? Everything I've seen says more touches. It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't give him more touches. Pagano at least said they are getting him more involved. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000860038/article/pagano-itd-be-wise-to-get-marlon-mack-more-involved

[Wildhog]

https://twitter.com/bkravitz/status/918513389214883841

 

Saw it on Rotoworld, who quoted this guy.

[cdgacoltsfan]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:16 PM, Chucklez said:

Gore might not ever breakaway for an 80 yard run, but he is a hell of a lot more dependable on every down than our other rbs, including Mack. For the time being, Mack is the great change of pace back we have been looking for and I'm sure the rest of his game will improve in time.... but gore is and should still be our bell cow.

I agree. Gore is one tough SOB. Not sure why he seems to be taken out of the lineup when its 3rd and short or goal line situations. They seem to like Turbin better in short yardage .

[NewColtsFan]

I've said this before in other threads,  but since Mack has his own thread here I think it's worth repeating....

 

I don't see Mack as Gore's eventual replacement...    I don't think he's built for that kind of pounding.    I see him as the perfect complimentary back..   the change of pace back...    

 

There's another great class of running backs coming up and I think one of them will be the future featured back.   Then we will have a time share with a little thunder and a little lightning.

 

I love Mack...   but I don't want to make him something he's not..   he's a Ferrari... a Maserati..    he's not a pick-up truck.

 

Let Mack be Mack!

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I've said this before in other threads,  but since Mack has his own thread here I think it's worth repeating....

 

I don't see Mack as Gore's eventual replacement...    I don't think he's built for that kind of pounding.    I see him as the perfect complimentary back..   the change of pace back...    

 

There's another great class of running backs coming up and I think one of them will be the future featured back.   Then we will have a time share with a little thunder and a little lightning.

 

I love Mack...   but I don't want to make him something he's not..   he's a Ferrari... a Maserati..    he's not a pick-up truck.

 

Let Mack be Mack!

 

 

I agree. Mack may actually be the Darren Sproles I have wanted for years which is still great. He can split the carries with Turbin in the future so it's all good.

[zo6scott]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 4:41 PM, #25HallOfFamer said:

I chose the right nickname.

 

it would seem, Hope your right.