PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 What are the NFL rules on "Targeting" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey287 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Good foundation for discussion: http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2017-nfl-rulebook/#article-7.-players-in-a-defenseless-posture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buccolts Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 There don't seem to be any. I hope Trevathian gets suspended, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 Just now, buccolts said: There don't seem to be any. I hope Trevathian gets suspended, though. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 In the first few weeks of the NCAA season I have seen several less violent than the Trevithan hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey287 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I am a hockey ref, not a football ref. But I believe the term "targeting" is NCAA foul, not an NFL term. Different rulebooks, different rules, different language and definitions. See: NHL rulebook vs USA Hockey rulebook for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron11 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 that hit was pretty bad definitely a fine incoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 minute ago, mikey287 said: I am a hockey ref, not a football ref. But I believe the term "targeting" is NCAA foul, not an NFL term. Different rulebooks, different rules, different language and definitions. See: NHL rulebook vs USA Hockey rulebook for example. It is also used by HS Associations as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 What bothered me as much was the fact that DT stayed in the game but that is the coach in me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey287 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Again, don't know this rulebook intimately. Sometimes you can't climb the ladder to ejection. Can't create rule enforcement on the fly. If the avenue is 15 yards and a "yellow card", so to speak, and then supplemental discipline can come from the league, then that's the deal. You know what I'm sayin, mon ami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our_dbs_rock Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 This is what kills me, you have the NFL talking about player safety yet they continue to allow unnecessary hits that are on the fringe of being late. But hey, at least they took the time to talk about adjusting how much celebration can be done after a touchdown........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luck 4 president Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I hope he gets a lengthy suspension and a hefty fine. Heck I wouldn't mind if he never played another down. Hits like that end careers. Remember how good Austin Collie was for us before he took a hit like that? He had a bright future and good career ahead of him but it all ended on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey287 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 So, you guys now touch on the key barrier to player safety - at least in the NHL - the union. Players don't want to take money away from other players, or playing time or jobs...that's cannabalistic...despite the fact that they're a danger to other players' careers. Head shots in the NHL aren't meaningfully dealt with because their PA is headed up by a legitimate sports terrorist who would aggrieve every suspension that is out of line with a precedent that has done nothing. The NFLPA, a softer, weaker, spongier union, clearly has no interest in this topic at the present. But the thought they're just going to ramp up supplemental discipline on a whim or without a political trade-off is just, respectfully, naive in the context of the politic collectively-bargained sport... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Colt Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 With replay why wasn't Trevathan ejected from the game after the play? If the officials cannot review hits why then claim to be concerned with player safety? Add to that the "Dog Pee" celebration last week end in the Giants game one has to take a look at the direction NFL football is going. The image they are trying to portray might itself be an image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameszeigler834 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 8 hours ago, buccolts said: There don't seem to be any. I hope Trevathian gets suspended, though. I thought they made a rule in the offseason for hits like that so when they happen that player gets ejected that should have happened last night the hit was dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad72 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 36 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said: I thought they made a rule in the offseason for hits like that so when they happen that player gets ejected that should have happened last night the hit was dirty. Agree. The goal is to get the ball, isn't it, when your teammate holds up the player? That is what the Love Smith Bears used to do. Just like an OL cannot engage someone that is already engaged, if an offensive player is held up, going for head should be disallowed and there is plenty of real estate to get the ball and get hits, especially if he is held up like that. Trevathan should be suspended, period, for 2 games at least for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey287 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, King Colt said: With replay why wasn't Trevathan ejected from the game after the play? If the officials cannot review hits why then claim to be concerned with player safety? Add to that the "Dog Pee" celebration last week end in the Giants game one has to take a look at the direction NFL football is going. The image they are trying to portray might itself be an image. That isn't a rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 11 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said: What are the NFL rules on "Targeting" 3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said: I thought they made a rule in the offseason for hits like that so when they happen that player gets ejected that should have happened last night the hit was dirty. {sorry for length in advance} Any player that commits a personal foul, unsportsmanlike, or roughing penalty (or commits a palpably unfair act) can be subject to disqualification... IF... the act is considered flagrant. Since the nature of football is so physical to begin with, these types ejections are rare. IE: Trevethan hit. However, any player or team official who fights with another player or team official, leaves the bench to take part in a fight, intentionally makes contact with or assaults a game official, or uses any item of equipment as a weapon is automatically disqualified. And we know that a player that has committed two personal foul's of a specific type (more below) are subject to disqualification. Below are numerous takeaways from the official NFL guidelines to the offenses in the NFL that are liable to a fine- ******************************************************************************Occasionally, a player’s actions on the field may fail to live up to the league’s expectations. On-field action is governed not only by the rules of play, but also by a code of conduct, established by the league and the NFL Players Association, that specifies the behavior that will not be tolerated and the minimum punishments for each transgression. It’s the job of the compliance officers within NFL Football Operations to make sure that players adhere to this code and exhibit exemplary behavior during every one of the 332 preseason, regular season and playoff games. In doing so, the compliance team helps to fulfill the NFL’s responsibilities to players, officials and business partners, as well as to the game’s young fans and their parents. This code of conduct is not handed down from on high. It is not designed to take the fun out of the game or raise money for the league. Most rules and fines are the result of the collective bargaining process between the NFL and the NFL Players Association. Before each season, every player receives a copy of the fine schedule, which lists major infractions, the resulting fines and the appeal process. Players sign a form acknowledging that they agree to follow the code of conduct and understand the violations and fines. The code protects players and officials, the game’s integrity and fairness, and the league itself. The rules exist for the good of the game, and complying with them is a shared responsibility. During the offseason, players receive clear instructions on violations and penalties. The NFL and its Compliance Department apply those rules consistently and fairly for all 32 teams and their players. Every year, players and teams have the opportunity to provide feedback on rules and policies. Any that are believed to have had a measurable negative impact on the game or the players are re-evaluated, although player complaints and concerns may not get a rule changed. Fans don’t watch NFL games to track fines and suspensions; they tune in to see two teams leave it all on the field for 60 minutes. Contests marred by dangerous or unprofessional behavior take away from the greatness of the NFL. The NFL and the NFL Players Association agree: Making sure players and staff conduct themselves in a manner that honors the game and safeguards it for future generations is a priority. This shared responsibility and commitment results in a great game, enjoyed by fans worldwide. ****************************************************************************** And here is the new rule addition added last year and made permanent this year- ****************************************************************************** In addition to any penalty referenced elsewhere in the Official Playing Rules, a player will be automatically disqualified in the event that player is penalized twice in the same game for committing one of the unsportsmanlike conduct fouls listed below, or a combination of the fouls listed below: 1. Throwing a punch, or a forearm, or kicking at an opponent, even though no contact is made. 2. Using abusive, threatening, or insulting language or gestures to opponents, teammates, officials, or representatives of the League. 3. Using baiting or taunting acts or words that engender ill will between teams. The player will be automatically disqualified regardless of whether the penalty is accepted or declined by the opponent. The fouls do not have to be judged by the official to be flagrant for the automatic disqualification to occur, and any foul that occurs during the pregame warm-up period will carry over into the game. Nothing in this section supersedes the Game Official's discretion to judge a foul to be flagrant and disqualify the player based on one occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our_dbs_rock Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Another thing I did not like about the play was that the only player on the field who ends up with their helmet off is Trevathan and he follows that up with going around and getting into every Packer players face that is on the field. That to me shows more intent than regret. He should have been flagged for taunting also and tossed from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, King Colt said: With replay why wasn't Trevathan ejected from the game after the play? If the officials cannot review hits why then claim to be concerned with player safety? Add to that the "Dog Pee" celebration last week end in the Giants game one has to take a look at the direction NFL football is going. The image they are trying to portray might itself be an image. I believe the officials on the field typically do not disqualify players for personal fouls. unless it was unquestionably flagrant. Trevethan's hit was a foul, but not necessarily flagrant. Officials look at things like timing (real time, no slo-mo replay) and whether he 'launched' (left feet and speared, etc..) or other acts showing a cognizant intent to injure. Evidently, that wasn't apparent on the field. now the NFL has guidelines and rules and will review the play and subsequently administer additional punishment, if necessary, based upon the CBA agreed to fines/suspension table all players sign before each season begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said: Another thing I did not like about the play was that the only player on the field who ends up with their helmet off is Trevathan and he follows that up with going around and getting into every Packer players face that is on the field. That to me shows more intent than regret. He should have been flagged for taunting also and tossed from the game. If that was what the did, then he could have. Officials were within earshot. They have the right to eject for flagrant fouls (not determined to rise to that level, apparently) or also taunting or certain types of , ummm.... 'bad' language. We don't know what was being said. But if he was 'celebrating' the hit, then I feel it will be relayed from the game officials to the NFL officials and they will act accordingly once they have viewed everything. Intent... it was his intent to make a play. Was it intent to deliberately injure the opponent? That is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron11 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said: Intent... it was his intent to make a play. Was it intent to deliberately injure the opponent? That is the question. no one can answer that though maybe it was intentional, but he tried to make it look unintentional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 56 minutes ago, aaron11 said: no one can answer that though maybe it was intentional, but he tried to make it look unintentional Exactly. Since it wasn't 'flagrant' enough to be 'sure', they could not justify to disqualify him on the spot. No question a FedEx letter is on its way soon. Whether it is a only a fine, or a fine+suspension we'll know soon enough. I'm sure the league will investigate interviewing game officials and review all tape first. I also feel all NFL players get hurt, so know the perils of missing games due to injury. So intent to put a colleague through that likely just isn't foremost. Making huge impact plays, yes. Putting another player in the hospital or ending his career... not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameszeigler834 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 2 hours ago, our_dbs_rock said: Another thing I did not like about the play was that the only player on the field who ends up with their helmet off is Trevathan and he follows that up with going around and getting into every Packer players face that is on the field. That to me shows more intent than regret. He should have been flagged for taunting also and tossed from the game. He should have been tossed from the game just for the hit alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Colts Fan Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Just to give the other side of this argument: After re-watching it a few times, it looks like Trevathan might, MIGHT, have been trying to dislodge the football with his helmet, but Adams was being pulled down and his face ended up in the space where the ball was. It also looked like Trevathan was upset, even on the verge of tears, when the Packers players kept yelling at him. I think he knew how bad it was and was trying to tell everyone he didn't mean to knock him out. Having said that, it did look bad, and he should pay the fine without another word about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I wish the Refs would have whistled it dead sooner. i know they like to 'let the play play out', so to speak. But if a guy is in a dangerous position, he doesn't deserve extra time to 'escape' it. once progress is clearly stopped and player is in a vulnerable position, end the play. Then hits afterward without trying to 'hold up' or avoid contact as they come in can get the treatment it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 12 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said: What bothered me as much was the fact that DT stayed in the game but that is the coach in me I agree. No place in football for that. Not only that the game was a blow out...coach should have pulled him....for his own safety as well....guarantee a lineman would have thought about going for his knee if they had a chance...it was classless. I don't know Danny well but that was one of the worst plays I've seen in a while. I don't know if the players association have to defend him against a fine or suspension but they should be looking out for the good of the whole and send a message that if your intent is to hurt another coworker...we aren't helping you fight your fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Just now, ColtsBlueFL said: I wish the Refs would have whistled it dead sooner. i know they like to 'let the play play out', so to speak. But if a guy is in a dangerous position, he doesn't deserve extra time to 'escape' it. once progress is clearly stopped and player is in a vulnerable position, end the play. Then hits afterward without trying to 'hold up' or avoid contact as they come in can get the treatment it deserves. Yeah I don't like the rugby scrum type stuff. Once the players momentum is stopped on his own...teammates shouldn't be allowed to assist him (pushing/pulling etc). It leads to more dangerous situations in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said: Just to give the other side of this argument: After re-watching it a few times, it looks like Trevathan might, MIGHT, have been trying to dislodge the football with his helmet, but Adams was being pulled down and his face ended up in the space where the ball was. It also looked like Trevathan was upset, even on the verge of tears, when the Packers players kept yelling at him. I think he knew how bad it was and was trying to tell everyone he didn't mean to knock him out. Having said that, it did look bad, and he should pay the fine without another word about it. I know your trying to play devils advocate but I don't see any situation where leading with the crown of your helmet is an acceptable football play....using it as a weapon against the ball or person is not ok in my opinion...I know sometimes it happens when you making a tackle you hit the ball but in that situation where a guy is held up...I don't think your going to convince anyone that was anything less than an opportunistic cheap shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincetonTiger Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 minute ago, dgambill said: I know your trying to play devils advocate but I don't see any situation where leading with the crown of your helmet is an acceptable football play....using it as a weapon against the ball or person is not ok in my opinion...I know sometimes it happens when you making a tackle you hit the ball but in that situation where a guy is held up...I don't think your going to convince anyone that was anything less than an opportunistic cheap shot. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Colts Fan Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 minute ago, dgambill said: I know your trying to play devils advocate but I don't see any situation where leading with the crown of your helmet is an acceptable football play....using it as a weapon against the ball or person is not ok in my opinion...I know sometimes it happens when you making a tackle you hit the ball but in that situation where a guy is held up...I don't think your going to convince anyone that was anything less than an opportunistic cheap shot. I agree. I think if he really was trying to knock the ball out, he should have taken a page from fellow Bear Tillman and punched at it instead of leading with his helmet. I think a hefty fine is in order. I don't know about a suspension, though. Is Trevathan a repeat offender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finball Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 56 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said: I agree. I think if he really was trying to knock the ball out, he should have taken a page from fellow Bear Tillman and punched at it instead of leading with his helmet. I think a hefty fine is in order. I don't know about a suspension, though. Is Trevathan a repeat offender? No, he doesn't have history of anything like this and isn't known as a dirty player either. Other than being a former Bronco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 20 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said: I agree. I think if he really was trying to knock the ball out, he should have taken a page from fellow Bear Tillman and punched at it instead of leading with his helmet. I think a hefty fine is in order. I don't know about a suspension, though. Is Trevathan a repeat offender? I'm not sure...I haven't noticed him being that way in the past...but I would hate to think that the standard for such an offense which seemed so intentionally careless of a players health and such a violent nature you need to have been warned once before. I'm not sure what the procedures are for such a thing but I can't imagine on prime time Thursday night with everyone watching the league is just going to sit on their hands and just fine the guy. Even if it gets reduced off I think he gets suspended for a week at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Colts Fan Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Finball said: No, he doesn't have history of anything like this and isn't known as a dirty player either. Other than being a former Bronco Maybe that's why I'm not as upset as some, didn't he help Manning win his last SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Colts Fan Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 minute ago, dgambill said: I'm not sure...I haven't noticed him being that way in the past...but I would hate to think that the standard for such an offense which seemed so intentionally careless of a players health and such a violent nature you need to have been warned once before. I'm not sure what the procedures are for such a thing but I can't imagine on prime time Thursday night with everyone watching the league is just going to sit on their hands and just fine the guy. Even if it gets reduced off I think he gets suspended for a week at least. I agree with you, but concerning the bolded and underlined, if Vontaze Burfict had done the same thing last night, he probably would have already been suspended the rest of the season. And for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finball Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 19 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said: Maybe that's why I'm not as upset as some, didn't he help Manning win his last SB? Yes, and played crucial role in covering James White in the AFCCG against the Pats. Broncos struggled mightily covering backs last year in the passing game without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Colt Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 One game suspension is the talk today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B~Town Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Just watched the replay I hope the nfl makes a example of DT those plays don't just ruin careers but people's lives . Enough bad PR right now with CTE the NFL can't afford to let plays like that happen with no more than a fine . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsBlueFL Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 6 hours ago, B~Town said: Just watched the replay I hope the nfl makes a example of DT those plays don't just ruin careers but people's lives . Enough bad PR right now with CTE the NFL can't afford to let plays like that happen with no more than a fine . Why players still do this (lead with the crown of the helmet) is beyond me. the person 'laying the wood' in that fashion puts them in as much, or more, medical risk than the receiving party. He can end his own career as, or more, easily than the guy he hits. No kidding here, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now