Rashaan Melvin and Secondary

[RockThatBlue]

On 9/25/2017 at 2:51 PM, Blue Shoe Savior 12 said:

I'm not going to jump on the Melvin Wagon three weeks into the season. If the kid is still playing at a high level at the end of the year, then I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I need to see someone like Melvin against a team like the Patriots or Steelers, to see if he can still hold his own against good receivers, who have a top QB throwing them the ball. I know it's the NFL, but when you're playing against guys like Goff and Kizer, it's going to be a lot different when you have guys like Brady and Roethlisberger throwing to guys like Antonio Brown and Brandon Cooks.

Give Melvin some credit. Hes been good. He can't help who he has played against.

[RockThatBlue]

On 9/25/2017 at 6:48 PM, Superman said:

 

This is a testament to the power of reduced expectations. Melvin gets beat just as much as Toler did.

I'm just basing it off my eye test, but I don't see this at all. Is it really true? Toler would get burned so many times a game I would lose count. I haven't felt that way about Melvin. 

[lollygagger8]

I thought everyone not named Davis and Butler in the secondary played alright. 

 

[TouchdownMonkey]

I'm excited about the promise and talent of our young secondary. Wilson, Melvin, Hairston, and Hooker are competing and earning field time. My biggest worry is Vontae, he was constantly getting torched last night against seahawks. I know it was his first game back, but even last year it appeared he was on the decline. I believe Ballard should consider trading Davis while he still has value. We really need online help, and a LB with some pass coverage skills. 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, TouchdownMonkey said:

I'm excited about the promise and talent of our young secondary. Wilson, Melvin, Hairston, and Hooker are competing and earning field time. My biggest worry is Vontae, he was constantly getting torched last night against seahawks. I know it was his first game back, but even last year it appeared he was on the decline. I believe Ballard should consider trading Davis while he still has value. We really need online help, and a LB with some pass coverage skills. 

I'll give you your first "like" for this. 100% agree, especially that we should trade Vontae while he still has value. If we could get a third round pick for him at this point, I'd be happy. That would set us up nicely in the draft next year.

[IinD]

I didn't like how Collinsworthless said that Sea RB broke Hairston's ankles on the td run, but Melvin actually had a better angle a few feet in back of Hairston and totally froze as the RB blew by him.

 

Hairston was solid.

[TouchdownMonkey]

28 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll give you your first "like" for this. 100% agree, especially that we should trade Vontae while he still has value. If we could get a third round pick for him at this point, I'd be happy. That would set us up nicely in the draft next year.

I hope Davis could bring in more than a third, but it wouldn't upset me.

[Coffeedrinker]

6 minutes ago, IinD said:

I didn't like how Collinsworthless said that Sea RB broke Hairston's ankles on the td run, but Melvin actually had a better angle a few feet in back of Hairston and totally froze as the RB blew by him.

 

Hairston was solid.

Yeah, but he did, Hairston is solid and showing to be good, but he did get faked out of his jock on that play.  Hooker had a better angle than Melvin and he took a horrible angle and ended up diving a yard behind them.

 

The team was not aware of who the RB was and they took angles and ran like it was Lacey or Carson.

[IinD]

7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yeah, but he did, Hairston is solid and showing to be good, but he did get faked out of his jock on that play.  Hooker had a better angle than Melvin and he took a horrible angle and ended up diving a yard behind them.

 

The team was not aware of who the RB was and they took angles and ran like it was Lacey or Carson.

Agreed, I was just sticking up for Hairston because Collins made it sound like it was all on Hairston, but Melvin was just as bad if not worse on that play.

[Coffeedrinker]

14 minutes ago, IinD said:

Agreed, I was just sticking up for Hairston because Collins made it sound like it was all on Hairston, but Melvin was just as bad if not worse on that play.

That was a miss by 11 guys no doubt.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, TouchdownMonkey said:

I hope Davis could bring in more than a third, but it wouldn't upset me.

I think his contract runs out at the end of the year, so a third would be fair IMO. As long as Quincy Wilson is back when we trade him, I think we'd be ok, and I think it'd be very beneficial to the team in the long term as we would be having our CB's play life after Vontae earlier than expected and get some valuable experience for next year when we could be competing for the playoffs.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think his contract runs out at the end of the year, so a third would be fair IMO. As long as Quincy Wilson is back when we trade him, I think we'd be ok, and I think it'd be very beneficial to the team in the long term as we would be having our CB's play life after Vontae earlier than expected and get some valuable experience for next year when we could be competing for the playoffs.

Why would any team give a third rounder for a guy who isn't under contract next year?

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why would any team give a third rounder for a guy who isn't under contract next year?

Just like baseball, if a team needs a player to put themselves over the top and win a world title, they trade for said player. It happens in every sport. I'm sure some CB's will get injured (a few out for the year), and there will be opportunities to trade Vontae for a 3rd to a contending SB team. This isn't real unusual.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think his contract runs out at the end of the year, so a third would be fair IMO. As long as Quincy Wilson is back when we trade him, I think we'd be ok, and I think it'd be very beneficial to the team in the long term as we would be having our CB's play life after Vontae earlier than expected and get some valuable experience for next year when we could be competing for the playoffs.

 

We're not getting a 3 for Vonte...    more likely a 5 or 6...

 

He's not under contract and he has a history of nagging minor injuries plus he's not playing well right now.

 

Could some one team over pay with a four?   Sure, but not likely.

 

A three is most likely a pipe dream.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're nit getting a 3 for Vonte...    more likely a 5 or 6...

 

He's not under contract and he has a history of nagging minor injuries plus he's not playing well right now.

 

Could some one team over pay with a four?   Sure, but not likely.

 

A three is most likely a pipe dream.

 

 

You might be right. I did respond with a good explanation above though, just so you know my reasoning on the matter. I could be dead wrong on the value, but Ballard could exploit a team.

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Just like baseball, if a team needs a player to put themselves over the top and win a world title, they trade for said player. It happens in every sport. I'm sure some CB's will get injured (a few out for the year), and there will be opportunities to trade Vontae for a 3rd to a contending SB team. This isn't real unusual.

Why give him up though? If Vontae is that valuable we likely get a 3rd rd compensatory value alone...he is worth more to us then any other team....or are we just cashing it in this year?? Sure we aren't looking great but we are only 1 back in the loss column with SF next week and the best team in our division has to play KC. We haven't even played a division opponent yet....sure its a long shot but we can still win our division.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Why give him up though? If Vontae is that valuable we likely get a 3rd rd compensatory value alone...he is worth more to us then any other team....or are we just cashing it in this year?? Sure we aren't looking great but we are only 1 back in the loss column with SF next week and the best team in our division has to play KC. We haven't even played a division opponent yet....sure its a long shot but we can still win our division.

I don't think we are getting any compensatory value because of all the FA's we signed.

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Why give him up though? If Vontae is that valuable we likely get a 3rd rd compensatory value alone...he is worth more to us then any other team....or are we just cashing it in this year?? Sure we aren't looking great but we are only 1 back in the loss column with SF next week and the best team in our division has to play KC. We haven't even played a division opponent yet....sure its a long shot but we can still win our division.

Also, giving up Vontae wouldn't be cashing it in. He's probably declining anyway, and we'd be better off starting Wilson and the others. 

[dgambill]

15 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't think we are getting any compensatory value because of all the FA's we signed.

It would depend on next year. We would get compensatory picks based on who we lose next offseason and who we sign. Granted we might sign a bunch or we may not bring in a lot of help....seeing as Ballard likes young guys we might build this through the draft. I'm not ready to give up on this season yet.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

It would depend on next year. We would get compensatory picks based on who we lose next offseason and who we sign. Granted we might sign a bunch or we may not bring in a lot of help....seeing as Ballard likes young guys we might build this through the draft.

It's exactly based on the year before if I remember right, though I'd need someone to confirm it.

[LockeDown]

Vontae just looked slow and rusty to me.  I would give him a few games to get back in shape.  

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It's exactly based on the year before if I remember right, though I'd need someone to confirm it.

Correct. We would get compensatory picks in 2019 based on what we lose this coming offseason.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Vontae just looked slow and rusty to me.  I would give him a few games to get back in shape.  

Yeah. First action of the season...he made some good plays but did look lost on a couple as well. I'd give him a few weeks to acclimate before calling for his head.

[ukcolt12]

Think Vontae will be fine by next week. 

First week rust

[BlueCollarColts]

Hooker is the best player in our secondary.

 

I don't think Davis is as bad as he showed last night, he'll improve. The entire team needs to improve. I think we have a chance to win 3 of the next 4 games and get back into the thick of it. (Who knows, maybe we can get Tennessee? They looked awful vs Houston)

[ColtsBlueFL]

I focus on the defensive secondary as a whole, not so much individuals.  and we have holes.  and other teams know it and exploit it.  Here's some numbers for you-

 

The worst (32nd) Defense in the league in points surrendered at 34 per game !!
Ranked 30th in passing yds/game at 283.5
Ranked last (32nd) in plays given up over 20 yards ( and >5 more over the next {31st} ranked team)
Ranked 22nd in rushing yds/game at 113
ranked 32nd in rushing TD's allowed
Ranked 31st in total yards given up per game at 396
Ranked 26th in 3rd down conversion % against us

 

As bad as O can be, the D has really laid down some hot steamers...    phhheeeewww.....

 

We still a team in build mode.  Ballard still has work to do, kids have growing up (play wise) to do...

[WarGhost21]

So, just wanted to find this topic to say that, for the first time in a long time, I found fans of other teams raving about one of our corners, and who other than Rashaan Melvin. They were talking about how he basically locked down both AJ Green and Antonio Brown. He is continuing to surprise many of us here!

[Mr. Irrelevant]

On 3/10/2017 at 3:47 AM, ColtsBlueFL said:

I focus on the defensive secondary as a whole, not so much individuals.  and we have holes.  and other teams know it and exploit it.  Here's some numbers for you-

 

The worst (32nd) Defense in the league in points surrendered at 34 per game !!
Ranked 30th in passing yds/game at 283.5
Ranked last (32nd) in plays given up over 20 yards ( and >5 more over the next {31st} ranked team)
Ranked 22nd in rushing yds/game at 113
ranked 32nd in rushing TD's allowed
Ranked 31st in total yards given up per game at 396
Ranked 26th in 3rd down conversion % against us

 

As bad as O can be, the D has really laid down some hot steamers...    phhheeeewww.....

 

 

.... but is that entirely on the defensive secondary though? What about the lack of premium pass rush, subpar play by the ILB’s? 

 

You have to question whether our main weaknesses isn’t the LB’ers and the defensive scheme/DC, right? The area between the LB and the DB is a bit of a grey area as to who to blame for some of those results of course. Just something to think about. 

[crazycolt1]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

.... but is that entirely on the defensive secondary though? What about the lack of premium pass rush, subpar play by the ILB’s? 

 

You have to question whether our main weaknesses isn’t the LB’ers and the defensive scheme/DC, right? The area between the LB and the DB is a bit of a grey area as to who to blame for some of those results of course. Just something to think about. 

It's hard to have a defensive scheme when you don't have the talent to have a scheme.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:33 PM, Xander said:

PFF is right. Melvin was beat, but Kizer couldn't hit his WR. 

 

Melvin is a great depth player, that's all. 

I think he has played very well this year everybody gets beat from time to time.

[chad72]

One more starter in next year's draft and we might have a quality secondary that may not be filled with great names but would be inexpensive, IMO.

 

That would help us go after OLs and pass rushers in FA and the draft. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

45 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I think he has played very well this year everybody gets beat from time to time.

He has. Still think Quincy could be better. 

[jameszeigler834]

5 hours ago, Xander said:

He has. Still think Quincy could be better. 

We wont know that until they give him a legit chance.