compuls1v3

Props to the coaches

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With all the negativity from the first game, I really felt they did a good job of 1) Giving us the best chance to win by starting JB 2) Getting the better performance out of the defense (Melvin and Mathias were stepping it up from last week) 3) throwing that challenge flag, 4) calling that time out to ice the kicker. Overall, the forum, in general seems much more at ease this week, and I believe it was largely so to the coaching.

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19 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

With all the negativity from the first game, I really felt they did a good job of 1) Giving us the best chance to win by starting JB 2) Getting the better performance out of the defense (Melvin and Mathias were stepping it up from last week) 3) throwing that challenge flag, 4) calling that time out to ice the kicker. Overall, the forum, in general seems much more at ease this week, and I believe it was largely so to the coaching.

I can get behind this.

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Sadly over the past few years I think we've seen the ceiling of Colts football in the Pagano era.  Uneven preparation, rotating door for coordinators/position coaches (gm's), players (absolute zero in terms of player development). The negativity isn't based soley on last week's loss.  The fact that we're congratulating the colts on an impressive defeat to a struggling team and saying things like "8 and 8 isn't a losing season" shows how deeply the culture within the organization we all love has sunk.  "Its hard to win on this league", "we won't make excuses but....." & "credit the *other team*" are not mantras of a franchise concerned with championships.......i'd love to be wrong but based on the past few seasons, I don't think I am.  I pray Ballard has his eyes and Irsay's ears wide open.  6 years of this is enough.  We need someone with steel in his GD spine to lead us back to the peak from where we have fallen.......

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1 hour ago, Sumo63 said:

Sadly over the past few years I think we've seen the ceiling of Colts football in the Pagano era.  Uneven preparation, rotating door for coordinators/position coaches (gm's), players (absolute zero in terms of player development). The negativity isn't based soley on last week's loss.  The fact that we're congratulating the colts on an impressive defeat to a struggling team and saying things like "8 and 8 isn't a losing season" shows how deeply the culture within the organization we all love has sunk.  "Its hard to win on this league", "we won't make excuses but....." & "credit the *other team*" are not mantras of a franchise concerned with championships.......i'd love to be wrong but based on the past few seasons, I don't think I am.  I pray Ballard has his eyes and Irsay's ears wide open.  6 years of this is enough.  We need someone with steel in his GD spine to lead us back to the peak from where we have fallen.......

Culture??? What are you even talking about? 

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1 hour ago, Sumo63 said:

Sadly over the past few years I think we've seen the ceiling of Colts football in the Pagano era.  Uneven preparation, rotating door for coordinators/position coaches (gm's), players (absolute zero in terms of player development). The negativity isn't based soley on last week's loss.  The fact that we're congratulating the colts on an impressive defeat to a struggling team and saying things like "8 and 8 isn't a losing season" shows how deeply the culture within the organization we all love has sunk.  "Its hard to win on this league", "we won't make excuses but....." & "credit the *other team*" are not mantras of a franchise concerned with championships.......i'd love to be wrong but based on the past few seasons, I don't think I am.  I pray Ballard has his eyes and Irsay's ears wide open.  6 years of this is enough.  We need someone with steel in his GD spine to lead us back to the peak from where we have fallen.......

I do agree that the Colts culture has somewhat dampened in terms of how much this team used to be expected to win (I mean the entire 2000s was just an era of nonstop 12 win seasons)...

 

But I feel like all teams (even New England) says things like "It's hard to win in this league" and "Credit to the other team". We never get bothered by it because they always win. 

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If the Colts fan base made the decisions then we would fire at least one coach after every loss. 

 

In other words, the fans would drive this team into the ground, much like the Cleveland Browns over the past decade or so. 

 

The Browns franchise finally figured it out, and understood the importance of keeping Hue Jackson around. They're investing into their coaching staff.

 

A quick way to become the laughing stock of the NFL is to make a habit of firing people. 

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58 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

If the Colts fan base made the decisions then we would fire at least one coach after every loss. 

 

In other words, the fans would drive this team into the ground, much like the Cleveland Browns over the past decade or so. 

 

The Browns franchise finally figured it out, and understood the importance of keeping Hue Jackson around. They're investing into their coaching staff.

 

A quick way to become the laughing stock of the NFL is to make a habit of firing people. 

Um, Chuck has been around for five years, at least two years too long.  It is long overdue. Firing him and his inept staff is just part of cleaning up the mess when Frogs/Pags were brought in here.  The reason that so many coordinators have been let go under Pagano's tenure is because of his tendency to throw his staff under the bus when the going gets tough. 

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8 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

Um, Chuck has been around for five years, at least two years too long.  It is long overdue. Firing him and his inept staff is just part of cleaning up the mess when Frogs/Pags were brought in here.  The reason that so many coordinators have been let go under Pagano's tenure is because of his tendency to throw his staff under the bus when the going gets tough. 

 

The front office will make that decision at the end of the season. 

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3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The front office will make that decision at the end of the season. 

Right, and I trust that Ballard will make that decision and bring in a guy that he trusts.    I'm not insinuating that they should clean house during the season.  It should have been done when Grigson was let go, but doing so during the season wouldn't accomplish anything.  

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3 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

Right, and I trust that Ballard will make that decision and bring in a guy that he trusts.    I'm not insinuating that they should clean house during the season.  It should have been done when Grigson was let go, but doing so during the season wouldn't accomplish anything.  

 

Anything can happen between now and then. There was actually a time when the Patriots fan base wanted Belichick and his staff to be fired. 

 

Chuck Pagano has dug a hole, but it's not impossible to crawl out of. Winning cures everything. He needs a lot of wins to make a case for staying around. 

 

I believe the Tolzien fiasco hurt Pagano more than anything. It was complete incompetence to think Tolzien could get the job done. 

 

All that said, if this team goes on a winning streak and makes the playoffs, then Pagano is likely getting a new contract. 

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Just now, BlueShoe said:

 

Anything can happen between now and then. There was actually a time when the Patriots fan base wanted Belichick and his staff to be fired. 

 

Chuck Pagano has dug a hole, but it's not impossible to crawl out of. Winning cures everything. He needs a lot of wins to make a case for staying around. 

 

I believe the Tolzien fiasco hurt Pagano more than anything. It was complete incompetence to think Tolzien could get the job done. 

 

All that said, if this team goes on a winning streak and makes the playoffs, then Pagano is likely getting a new contract. 

With all due respect, Pagano is no Belichick.  Please.  Pagano has had FIVE years.  During that five years, he has shown what his coaching ceiling is.  It doesn't even matter if the Colts make the playoffs this year.  Let's say they somehow make the playoffs.  So what?That alone will not be enough for Pagano to keep his job.  That may be enough for a franchise like the Browns or the Jags, but this franchise wants championships.  Pagano will not bring us a championship, either this year or the following years, and it is obvious.    Even after we made the AFC Championship game a few years back, it was still painfully obvious that Chuck is a very very average coach, and that's being nice. 

 

Ballard didn't have a choice to pick his guy when he got hired, but barring a miracle season, (which isn't going to happen) he will pick his guy during the off season.  I still don't understand ehy some fans cannot see that Chuckles just isn't any good.  

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18 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

With all due respect, Pagano is no Belichick.  Please.  Pagano has had FIVE years.  During that five years, he has shown what his coaching ceiling is.  It doesn't even matter if the Colts make the playoffs this year.  Let's say they somehow make the playoffs.  So what?That alone will not be enough for Pagano to keep his job.  That may be enough for a franchise like the Browns or the Jags, but this franchise wants championships.  Pagano will not bring us a championship, either this year or the following years, and it is obvious.    Even after we made the AFC Championship game a few years back, it was still painfully obvious that Chuck is a very very average coach, and that's being nice. 

 

Ballard didn't have a choice to pick his guy when he got hired, but barring a miracle season, (which isn't going to happen) he will pick his guy during the off season.  I still don't understand ehy some fans cannot see that Chuckles just isn't any good.  

 

I disagree with almost everything you have written.

 

If Pagano takes this team to the playoffs then he is likely getting a new deal.

 

In his FIVE years, Pagano has never had a losing season. Average coaches do not sport winning records. 

 

Just because you want something to happen, it doesn't mean it will. Like it or not, Pagano still controls his own destiny.

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2 hours ago, Mr Coffee said:

With all due respect, Pagano is no Belichick.  Please.  Pagano has had FIVE years.  During that five years, he has shown what his coaching ceiling is.  It doesn't even matter if the Colts make the playoffs this year.  Let's say they somehow make the playoffs.  So what?That alone will not be enough for Pagano to keep his job.  That may be enough for a franchise like the Browns or the Jags, but this franchise wants championships.  Pagano will not bring us a championship, either this year or the following years, and it is obvious.    Even after we made the AFC Championship game a few years back, it was still painfully obvious that Chuck is a very very average coach, and that's being nice. 

 

Ballard didn't have a choice to pick his guy when he got hired, but barring a miracle season, (which isn't going to happen) he will pick his guy during the off season.  I still don't understand ehy some fans cannot see that Chuckles just isn't any good.  

With all due respect Pagano's record is better than Belichick's was his first 5 years.

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Good job coaches! Thank you for allowing this team to fall apart just long enough to have a silver spoon fed victory fly right out the window.

Only the Indianapolis Colts.. I swear.

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

With all due respect Pagano's record is better than Belichick's was his first 5 years.

With all due respect that was with the Cleveland Browns. To compare the two or even mention them in the same sentence is absurd. Record(s) aside, I go off of what I see on the field and throw in the possibility of missing the playoffs for 3 straight years (I still have hope till there is none)....I've seen all I want to see of Chuck. Like him as a person, time to go as a coach.

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6 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

If the Colts fan base made the decisions then we would fire at least one coach after every loss. 

 

In other words, the fans would drive this team into the ground, much like the Cleveland Browns over the past decade or so. 

 

The Browns franchise finally figured it out, and understood the importance of keeping Hue Jackson around. They're investing into their coaching staff.

 

A quick way to become the laughing stock of the NFL is to make a habit of firing people. 

Another way is to keep a poor coach around for too long (Cincy).

 

 

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4 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I disagree with almost everything you have written.

 

If Pagano takes this team to the playoffs then he is likely getting a new deal.

 

In his FIVE years, Pagano has never had a losing season. Average coaches do not sport winning records. 

 

Just because you want something to happen, it doesn't mean it will. Like it or not, Pagano still controls his own destiny.

A lot of avg coaches have winning records. It's amazing that Pagano still has supporters. LOL. I was part of the Luck is overrated crowd, now I realize just what he's been carrying his entire nfl career. And Chuck Pagano was lucky to have Andrew Luck in a horrible division for most of his career. That has changed. Luck is hurt and the division is better. 

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Props to the coaches? Man, those rose colored glasses must have been give out at the home opener. Props for getting outcoached by not making 2nd half adjustments again. Maybe Chuck wood will actually give JB a whole week of full snaps unlike splitting last weak.

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35 minutes ago, Myles said:

Another way is to keep a poor coach around for too long (Cincy).

 

 

 

7 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

If the Colts fan base made the decisions then we would fire at least one coach after every loss. 

 

In other words, the fans would drive this team into the ground, much like the Cleveland Browns over the past decade or so. 

 

The Browns franchise finally figured it out, and understood the importance of keeping Hue Jackson around. They're investing into their coaching staff.

 

A quick way to become the laughing stock of the NFL is to make a habit of firing people. 

Jimmy drives this team in the ground himself and the coaches he has,

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51 minutes ago, Myles said:

Another way is to keep a poor coach around for too long (Cincy).

 

 

 

The Bengals had double digit wins in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. 

 

They fell to 6-9-1 in 2016. However, they still forced more points than allowed. 

 

Why not fire a coach who's team has 49 wins to 29 losses (2 ties) over a 5-year stretch?

 

If Cincinnati (currently 0-2) finishes the season with a losing record (2-years straight) then the Bengals front office might need to reevaluate the coaching staff. 

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3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The Bengals had double digit wins in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. 

 

They fell to 6-9 in 2016. However, they still forced more points than allowed. 

 

Why not fire a coach who's team has 49 wins to 29 losses over a 5-year stretch?

 

If Cincinnati (currently 0-2) finishes the season with a losing record (2-years straight) then the Bengals front office might need to reevaluate the coaching staff. 

Bengals should have fired Lewis 2 years ago, after that bad playoffs meltdown against the Steelers. They should have kept Hue Jackson and promoted him to HC.

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1 hour ago, GusFring said:

A lot of avg coaches have winning records. It's amazing that Pagano still has supporters. LOL. I was part of the Luck is overrated crowd, now I realize just what he's been carrying his entire nfl career. And Chuck Pagano was lucky to have Andrew Luck in a horrible division for most of his career. That has changed. Luck is hurt and the division is better. 

 

I have certainly shared my displeasure about some of Chuck Pagano's decisions, and gave logical reasons why. 

 

You must not believe in logic though. 

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21 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Bengals should have fired Lewis 2 years ago, after that bad playoffs meltdown against the Steelers. They should have kept Hue Jackson and promoted him to HC.

 

That would make perfect sense. Why not fire a coach with several double-digit winning seasons in a row? That will make other coaches want to sign with you. 

 

Fire someone after every loss! Make a game out if it. Line them up in the center of town and have them play Duck, Duck, Goose. 

 

For the record, I am a Hue Jackson fan and have been for a long time. He got a raw deal with the Raiders. 

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35 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

 

Jimmy drives this team in the ground himself and the coaches he has,

 

How many division titles has Jim Irsay's teams won over the past 15 years?

 

How many years have the Colts been relevant?

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6 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The front office will make that decision at the end of the season. 

Hope it doesn't take that long.

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Just now, Blueblood23 said:

Hope it doesn't take that long.

 

It will be based on Pagano's body of work throughout the 2017 season. Rough start, but 14 games still to go. 

 

Chuck Pagano still controls his own destiny. 

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Now I don't want to seem like a Debbie downer but I did state In another topic that even if the Colts had won against the Cards, I would've been excited for the win but not for the team out look.

 

But the only high five goes to Pagano for benching Tolzien and starting Brisset. The Colts can win with Jacoby Brissett with a better coach. Good to know for next year.

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2 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

That would make perfect sense. Why not fire a coach with several double-digit winning seasons in a row? That will make other coaches want to sign with you. 

 

Fire someone after every loss! Make a game out if it. Line them up in the center of town and have them play Duck, Duck, Goose. 

 

For the record, I am a Hue Jackson fan and have been for a long time. He got a raw deal with the Raiders. 

Bengals fans were calling for him to be fired even before that playoff meltdown. Winning records mean nothing if you can't win a playoff game, and that playoff meltdown was bad. It's obvious they aren't going anywhere with Lewis. I'm not advocating firing someone after every loss. Lewis had been employed by the Bengals for several years at that point.

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16 minutes ago, IndyScribe said:

Bengals fans were calling for him to be fired even before that playoff meltdown. Winning records mean nothing if you can't win a playoff game, and that playoff meltdown was bad. It's obvious they aren't going anywhere with Lewis. I'm not advocating firing someone after every loss. Lewis had been employed by the Bengals for several years at that point.

 

How did that work out for Kansas City and San Diego after they fired Marty Schottenheimer? 

 

Gunther Cunningham really turned things around in Kansas City, right? 

 

I guess the Chargers can say they finally got over the hump in 2007, but ultimately lost the war. Was it worth it? Might have Marty won in 2007 as well? Just maybe the Chargers would have enjoyed more success with Marty, created a bigger following, and stayed in San Diego. 

 

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. 

 

More reason why fans don't make decisions. Any owner that does what the fans want will quickly become a clown show. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

Another way is to keep a poor coach around for too long (Cincy).

 

 

Sadly, the Colts are now what Peyton Manning referred to as a "circle game" to their opponents. 

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Did anyone else realize that by trying to make Jacoby Brissett comfortable, they incorporated things like what he saw in the New England offense with crossing routes and quick hitters that we have been craving for? We see it in spurts with Chud but if we can call a whole game where the occasional shot down the field is taken to open up the D but fill the offense with mid-range plays called game after game, we would all love it. 

 

That, I would give the coaches credit for but I am hoping it lasts for more than 1 game. I also am worried now that the game film is there with Jacoby, how we will fare next game.

 

Arm strength and accuracy, Jacoby trumped Tolzien clearly. Tolzien would have folded under a lot of pressure circumstances we saw Jacoby brush off and deliver a dart. I am impressed with the young man. I am seeing the upside of the trade, clearly, unless Dorsett catches 100 balls with all those NE WR injuries and Jacoby goes south once teams have film on him (knocking on wood it does not happen :)). 

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10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

If the Colts fan base made the decisions then we would fire at least one coach after every loss. 

 

In other words, the fans would drive this team into the ground, much like the Cleveland Browns over the past decade or so. 

 

The Browns franchise finally figured it out, and understood the importance of keeping Hue Jackson around. They're investing into their coaching staff.

 

A quick way to become the laughing stock of the NFL is to make a habit of firing people. 

The Colts already have become a laughing stock...

 

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1 minute ago, Dingus McGirt said:

The Colts already have become a laughing stock...

 

 

You think this is rock bottom?

 

LOL. 

 

Dear Dingus, you have clearly been sheltered. 

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14 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

With all the negativity from the first game, I really felt they did a good job of 1) Giving us the best chance to win by starting JB 2) Getting the better performance out of the defense (Melvin and Mathias were stepping it up from last week) 3) throwing that challenge flag, 4) calling that time out to ice the kicker. Overall, the forum, in general seems much more at ease this week, and I believe it was largely so to the coaching.

 

The coaching was terrible and lead to losing a close game. They made the following glaring mistakes

 

Played 42 when he was getting beat over and over again.

 

On the long touchdown pass when AR was trying to get back in the game they had Hooker on the line of Scrimmage. If he is back in centerfield they do not make that pass

 

Did not play Mack enough and made poor play calls when he was in the game. 

 

The challenge was once again not used correctly.

 

They called timeout with about 10 seconds to go in the game giving AR a free play. AR simply did not take advantage.

 

They had 12 men on the field after a timeout AND the player did not stay on side when running off the field.

 

Left AC alone to block his man when he was beat repeatedly.

 

These are just a few of the mental mistakes that should not have occurred and would have resulted in a win. 

 

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1 hour ago, JTrouble said:

With all due respect that was with the Cleveland Browns. To compare the two or even mention them in the same sentence is absurd. Record(s) aside, I go off of what I see on the field and throw in the possibility of missing the playoffs for 3 straight years (I still have hope till there is none)....I've seen all I want to see of Chuck. Like him as a person, time to go as a coach.

 

Not going to get in the Pags is great or horrid debate, but with all due respect, that Browns team was/is actually now the Baltimore Ravens.  They moved the year Bill Belichik's contract was ended (fired technically by the soon to be Ravens, for 1996) and they won the Super Bowl a few years later (2000).  I guess it could be said Bill helped set the foundation for that Ravens team while they were the Browns.

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3 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

How many division titles has Jim Irsay's teams won over the past 15 years?

 

How many years have the Colts been relevant?

said current

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21 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

said current

 

That's tricky. The here and now changes from week to week. If we are going to talk about an owners impact, then it's not really fair to only allow how a person (fan) feels today, based on a few current wins or losses. We need to look at the history of decisions, and how those decisions ultimately impacted the organization. 

 

I believe Jim Irsay's historical success places him in high regards amongst NFL owners. 

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