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Pagano called the team pitiful after Dallas preseason game


RockThatBlue

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17 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


I think there's truth to the rumor that Grigson picked Pep. So yeah, I don't think Chuck really got to pick his staff, for the most part, until this recent overhaul.

Yeah it did seem that the Stanford connection was flying high for the Colts. Other than Luck the others didn't work out too well.

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9 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

How many excuses does Pagano need to make for sucking at his job? It's gotten so old seeing the Colts come into each game unprepared. This falls on Pagano. He isn't a good coach, and if he had any dignity at all, would have resigned in the off-season

Dignity? Really? For such a bad coach his record doesn't show it.

In case you haven't noticed the regular season hasn't started yet. But don't let that stop you ragging on Pagano.

Is there something else you can bring to the forum besides whining?

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13 hours ago, CyberTwin said:

From my impression, this is the way Pagano has been wanting to coach this team and was never allowed to.

 

“Grigson is significantly more involved in the coaching area than [Bill] Polian ever was,” Kravitz writes. “Sources tell me Grigson not only dictated who would and would not play but undermined Pagano when he wanted to discipline certain players.”

 

 

First, Kravitz writes that, after trading for running back Trent Richardson in 2013, Grigson continued to insist that Richardson play, even though he wasn’t playing very well. “According to sources, Grigson was concerned with creating the narrative that it was a good trade,” Kravitz says.

 

Second, Kravitz reports that Grigson insisted on the use of punt returner Josh Cribbs last year, against the desires of Pagano and several members of his staff.

 

Third, Kravitz explains that Grigson kept Pagano from disciplining certain players he wanted to discipline.

 

Fourth, Kravitz says that Grigson forced former offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton on Pagano. “Pep was never answerable to Chuck. Pep answered to Ryan, and everybody in the building knew it,” Kravitz said, citing an unnamed source.

 

Now that Grigson is gone and not micromanaging the team and Pagano he is allowed to be who he is and we are seeing the real Pagano now. That is why he was the cheerleader coach before cause his hands were tied and out of frustration he would clap his hands and say we'll get them next time. If players don't like it they can move on cause this is how he is going to be for now on.

 

He is giving them the Belichick treatment. Do your job and do it right and be there for your team or you won't be here. This is the way people said he needed to be and now they don't like it. I just don't get it. I like it and it will make this team better. This is a new culture they are bringing here to toughen this team up and make them better. It is not just Pagano, but also Ballard who feels this way too.

This 100% true... The players need to know this isn't gonna be a soft team anymore. 

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Cupcake generation at its finest.

 

A professional football coach called his professional team full of professional athletes "pitiful". . . Oh My :lol:

 

I was called much, much worse at the high school level in the 90's

 

But we were tough. We were football players.

 

Just my two cents. . . Not trying to offend anyone

 

 

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15 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

Cupcake generation at its finest.

 

A professional football coach called his professional team full of professional athletes "pitiful". . . Oh My :lol:

 

I was called much, much worse at the high school level in the 90's

 

But we were tough. We were football players.

 

Just my two cents. . . Not trying to offend anyone

 

 

Bingo.

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Dignity? Really? For such a bad coach his record doesn't show it.

In case you haven't noticed the regular season hasn't started yet. But don't let that stop you ragging on Pagano.

Is there something else you can bring to the forum besides whining?

Pagano has missed the playoffs for two years in a row in a crappy division. A good coach wins the AFC south, and doesn't get swept by Brock Osweiler lol. For a "defensive" coach, Pagano's defenses sure do suck each and every year. Let's just play make believe that Chuck is a good coach, and it is every body else's fault.

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Here's how you Pagano sucks. Look at the 2014 season, when NE blew us out twice. When we played them in the regular season, NE had a huge game rushing the ball. Colts couldn't stop the run. When we played them in the AFC title game, NE did the exact same thing, ran the ball, and we couldn't stop it. A good coach makes adjustments, and Pagano seemed clueless on how NE were going to play us. 

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1 hour ago, Pacergeek said:

Pagano has missed the playoffs for two years in a row in a crappy division. A good coach wins the AFC south, and doesn't get swept by Brock Osweiler lol. For a "defensive" coach, Pagano's defenses sure do suck each and every year. Let's just play make believe that Chuck is a good coach, and it is every body else's fault.

 

What about Sean Payton, Ron Rivera? Or, let's say Tom Coughlin? Did they loose their dignity too? Because all of them had (not one, but quite a number of) seasons when they could not win their divisions the time it was "crappy". And all three of these coaches had their quarterbacks healthy when sucked. Two of those quarterbacks being future hall of famers. And the thrird one being the defending MVP...

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16 hours ago, CyberTwin said:

From my impression, this is the way Pagano has been wanting to coach this team and was never allowed to.

 

“Grigson is significantly more involved in the coaching area than [Bill] Polian ever was,” Kravitz writes.

Very well written post CyberTwin.

 

Here is Kravitz's original article CyberTwin was referring to: KRAVITZ: Grigson’s "meddling" helped undermine soon-to-be-fired Pagano

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19 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

And so on Saturday night Pagano called the team “pitiful” and called a holding penalty “foolish” and went so far as identify the foolish player by number, 62, which means second-year tackle Le’Raven Clark, who lost his job after one preseason game.

 

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/585835001

 

This is definitely a bit concerning(not his comments, but for the fact he had to say it), to say the least.

 

This is not meant to be a bash Pagano thread, we have plenty of other threads for that. But its meant to focus on his comments here. 

 

If he sees the Colts as pitiful, that's not good.

The Colts play was pitiful is what he meant. I like that he said it watching the game the Colts were PITIFUL!! The must play better than that if they intend on being a good team. Why sugar coat it?

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1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:
17 hours ago, krunk said:

I'm rooting for Chuck to be honest. 

Me too!

I'm rooting any any and everybody in a Colts jersey or shirt.  I hope Tolzein blows the media away and Chuck does a great job, and heck even Chud putting together the #1 offense.  New season that has yet to start...so optimism here I come!

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2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Pagano has missed the playoffs for two years in a row in a crappy division. A good coach wins the AFC south, and doesn't get swept by Brock Osweiler lol. For a "defensive" coach, Pagano's defenses sure do suck each and every year. Let's just play make believe that Chuck is a good coach, and it is every body else's fault.

The Colts were a crappy team in a crappy division! They were lucky to be 500 IMO! You only get to coach the players your given, and especially on defense they sucked!!

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2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Here's how you Pagano sucks. Look at the 2014 season, when NE blew us out twice. When we played them in the regular season, NE had a huge game rushing the ball. Colts couldn't stop the run. When we played them in the AFC title game, NE did the exact same thing, ran the ball, and we couldn't stop it. A good coach makes adjustments, and Pagano seemed clueless on how NE were going to play us. 

The Colts got to the AFC title game many teams didn't! Sometimes teams have a bad match-up, obviously NE was ours! Then again NE is a bad match-up for EVERYONE!!

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There's a lot of youth this team has to depend on this year.   It's not a mystery to me why he's putting extra emphasis on people being grown.  Like he said "the pros they know".  The young guys on the other hand you have to bring a little extra fire on them to know how this thing has to be.   I can see what he's doing.  I don't think he's lost no locker room in 2 preseason games.  That sounds ridiculous to me.

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3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Pagano has missed the playoffs for two years in a row in a crappy division. A good coach wins the AFC south, and doesn't get swept by Brock Osweiler lol. For a "defensive" coach, Pagano's defenses sure do suck each and every year. Let's just play make believe that Chuck is a good coach, and it is every body else's fault.

Look, if you can't figure why things happen I don't know what to say to you.

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Look, if you can't figure why things happen I don't know what to say to you.

Yep, it's a new year and different things could happen. We lost to the Texans on a fluke in Houston by 3 in OT, then lost by 5 here. Not like they dominated us, they got damn lucky to win both games to be brutally honest.

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2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

Very well written post CyberTwin.

 

Here is Kravitz's original article CyberTwin was referring to: KRAVITZ: Grigson’s "meddling" helped undermine soon-to-be-fired Pagano

Re-reading that. It's not that I forgot any of that, but Grigson was a big stinking pile. Good lord. I'm only kind of kidding. One day contract so we can fire him again. 

 

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19 minutes ago, krunk said:

There's a lot of youth this team has to depend on this year.   It's not a mystery to me why he's putting extra emphasis on people being grown.  Like he said "the pros they know".  The young guys on the other hand you have to bring a little extra fire on them to know how this thing has to be.   I can see what he's doing.  I don't think he's lost no locker room in 2 preseason games.  That sounds ridiculous to me.

I agree. Chuck is not dumb. I am quite sure he knows he is fighting for his job. I wouldn't want him any other way.

Before the pre season games started I think it would have been too pre mature to think the Colts went from a 8-8 team over one off season to a team that will go deep into the playoffs. They turned over about 50% of their roster and cut ties with the dead weight. In reality Ballard has rebuilt this team as much as he could..

You cant fix three years of bad drafting in one off season.

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1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is the first time I don't think the players will "play their hearts out" for Chuck. He seems to have lost the locker room.

 

 

*

 

There are all sorts of things I'd like to say in response,   but I'll be diplomatic....

 

But I will say this.....

 

Any player who is already lost to Chuck Pagano because Pagano is now being a hard butt,  does NOT belong on an NFL roster.       PERIOD!!

 

If a player is already so upset with the HC because Pagano is being hard on them NOW,  that he's not responding well,    he's not worthy of being on the team.

 

There are no hard facts to support the concept of Pagano losing the team.    But you don't like Pags so you choose to believe the rumor.     It fits your views on Pags.      That's on you.

 

But a player --- ANY PLAYER --- who has already checked out at this point of the pres-season is simply pitiful......

 

 

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18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are all sorts of things I'd like to say in response,   but I'll be diplomatic....

 

But I will say this.....

 

Any player who is already lost to Chuck Pagano because Pagano is now being a hard butt,  does NOT belong in an NFL roster.       PERIOD!!

 

If a player is already so upset with the HC because Pagano is being hard on them NOW,  that he's not responding well,    he's not worthy of being on the team.

 

There are no hard facts to support the concept of Pagano losing the team.    But you don't like Pags so you choose to believe the rumor.     It fits your views on Pags.      That's on you.

 

But a player --- ANY PLAYER --- who has already checked out at this point of the pres-season is simply pitiful......

 

 

I know I find myself getting irritable as well lmao with all the negativity in here already. A win on opening day will take care of a lot of things whether it's Tolzien/Morris/or someone off the street playing. Hopefully Luck can get healthy and we can take advantage of an easy schedule early on.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know I find myself getting irritable as well lmao with all the negativity in here already. A win on opening day will take care of a lot of things whether it's Tolzien/Morris/or someone off the street playing. Hopefully Luck can get healthy and we can take advantage of an easy schedule early on.

 

I think we're going to lose as long as Luck is out.       My guess is Luck misses the first two weeks of the regular season.

 

I think we're going to lose to the Rams in Los Angeles.

 

And I think we'll get killed by Arizona in a game at home in Lucas Oil.

 

Luck comes back in week 3 at home vs. Cleveland.

 

That's my guess.

 

But if things are bad now on the website,   I think there will be near panic after we start 0-2 with Tolzein.

 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think we're going to lose as long as Luck is out.       My guess is Luck misses the first two weeks of the regular season.

 

I think we're going to lose to the Rams in Los Angeles.

 

And I think we'll get killed by Arizona in a game at home in Lucas Oil.

 

Luck comes back in week 3 at home vs. Cleveland.

 

That's my guess.

 

But if things are bad now on the website,   I think there will be near panic after we start 0-2 with Tolzein.

 

The Rams game is huge. Because if we win that and lets say we lose to the Cards and Luck comes back vs the Browns, we are looking at 2-1 and Luck getting a game under his belt.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Rams game is huge. Because if we win that and lets say we lose to the Cards and Luck comes back vs the Browns, we are looking at 2-1 and Luck getting a game under his belt.

 

Goff has looked pretty good already under the guidance of Sean McVay.     Looks totally different than last year.    Night and Day different.

 

That game will not be a gimmie,  and I won't be surprised if we lose....     and maybe even lose badly.

 

 

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Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Goff has looked pretty good already under the guidance of Sean McVay.     Looks totally different than last year.    Night and Day different.

 

That game will not be a gimmie,  and I won't be surprised if we lose....     and maybe even lose badly.

 

 

If Luck doesn't play I wont be surprised if we lose either but if we win it would be gigantic moving forward.

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Goff has looked pretty good already under the guidance of Sean McVay.     Looks totally different than last year.    Night and Day different.

 

That game will not be a gimmie,  and I won't be surprised if we lose....     and maybe even lose badly.

 

 

Unfortunattely I agree with you, throw in its opening day, and La's defense is REALLY GOOD! And they can run the ball, and well we cant stop the run. Ohhhh Noooo just writing this I feeling worst by the second!!

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19 hours ago, southwest1 said:

You're post earlier on this page was very well written CT. I disagreed with the vast majority of it, but you stated your point of view quite well nevertheless. 

 

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your perspectives frequently in the future. --SW1

It really doesn't matter if we believe it or not. What does matter is that he is coaching this way now and if it brings the results that Irsay is looking for then Pagano will be here next year. If it doesn't bring the results Irsay is looking for them we will have a new coach next year.

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are all sorts of things I'd like to say in response,   but I'll be diplomatic....

 

But I will say this.....

 

Any player who is already lost to Chuck Pagano because Pagano is now being a hard butt,  does NOT belong on an NFL roster.       PERIOD!!

 

If a player is already so upset with the HC because Pagano is being hard on them NOW,  that he's not responding well,    he's not worthy of being on the team.

 

There are no hard facts to support the concept of Pagano losing the team.    But you don't like Pags so you choose to believe the rumor.     It fits your views on Pags.      That's on you.

 

But a player --- ANY PLAYER --- who has already checked out at this point of the pres-season is simply pitiful......

 

 

Yup, if players are checking out after preseason game #2, we are in for one brutal season. The real games haven't even started.

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2 hours ago, CyberTwin said:

It really doesn't matter if we believe it or not. What does matter is that he is coaching this way now and if it brings the results that Irsay is looking for then Pagano will be here next year. If it doesn't bring the results Irsay is looking for them we will have a new coach next year.

Yeah, I suppose at this point being more vocal publicly is really the only move Pagano has left. I can't say with any authority that he hasn't disciplined players behind closed doors when necessary. I'm sure he has. 

 

What will be; will be. Like you say, it's Jimmy's call not ours. People know where I stand & I'm not moving. 

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14 hours ago, Restored said:

 

I have to respectfully disagree here on a few things SW. For one, as another poster pointed out, there have been plenty of instances that showed where Grigson undermined the coaching staff. Just because they worked together on Deflategate doesn't mean that they could've had issues elsewhere.

 

While it is pro football, ego's run rampant in this business. Grigson had a reputation for having a inflated ego (plenty of articles and stories about it). It's entirely plausible that Grigson pushed the staff to play certain players (ie. Trent Richardson). Also, if Pagano opted to go against Grigson's orders, he could've been fired for undermining his boss. And when coaches get fired in this business, it's VERY tough for them to rebound back into a staff position on a team, let alone a head coaching job.

 

This last part I do somewhat agree with. Regardless of the circumstances this year, this team cannot miss the playoffs or else Chuck will be gone. I honestly thought changing out a good portion of the coaching staff and letting them get a few seasons would be best for the team heading into this year instead of clearing house, especially with Luck being projected to miss the whole offseason. But if this team can't rebound and make the playoffs this year, Chuck should/will be let go.

I'm not putting you in this category Restored, but I get the sense from some fans that they tend to focus on Pagano's first few season's here as opposed to the last 2 yrs missing the playoffs. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league as you alluded to in your last paragraph. 

 

I'm sorry I don't buy that Chuck was powerless to Ryan's alter ego arrogant ways even though this was Pagano's first shot at being an NFL head coach. Yes, I'm well aware of Grigson's desire to keep Trent Richardson in the starting rotation longer then Chuck may have wanted. So want. Chuck isn't some delicate little flower man. Come on. You have a private meeting 1 on 1 with your GM & express your concerns that Richardson isn't pulling his weight in your estimation & you strongly suggest altering INDY's RB rotation. If that doesn't work, you go straight to Jimmy & say "Look, I've discussed this with Ryan & we fail to see eye to eye here on our ground game lineup. I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here. I just wanna win games for this franchise & let's shake things up a bit to see if we can ignite a spark on offense. I don't believe I'm in the wrong here. What do you think Mr. Irsay?" 

 

Deflate Gate or playing in the AFC Championship Game proves that there was enough talent, teamwork, & chemistry on the roster & in the front office to at least compete for a ring Restored. All franchises have rifts in them even the Steelers, Seahawks, & Patriots. 

 

"I honestly thought changing out a good portion of the coaching staff and letting them get a few seasons would be best for the team heading into this year." 

 

You have got to be joking. Absolutely not. If leadership at the head coaching position is insufficient, no amount of strategic chess moving is going to solve your problem of not being competitive late in the yr.

 

Your line about "a few more seasons" under the bulk of this regime almost made me fall out of my chair. Sometimes, this franchise is too loyal to mediocrity for my tastes. 

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15 hours ago, twfish said:

This. He's gotten pretty well everyone besides him replaced, he's got no one to blame but himself.

I agree with this in spirit TWF. Translation: I respect Chuck's contributions here as a community leader, family man, overall nice guy. Just to be clear, I know he tried his best as the Colts HC & I take no glee in what I am about to say: After this year, Pagano needs to be gone & we need to find a new leader who can cut down on penalties especially false starts. Seriously, it's almost laughable now that we still have this same problem in 2017. We need better clock management & halftime adjustments. 

 

Yeah, I know. Our previous GM neglected defense & became preoccupied with TEs & WRs while he was making draft selections. A legitimate complaint. I just know the longer we keep Pagano the more we squander Luck's shot at winning a ring. We can't be saying "well, there's always next year all the time." 

 

I really don't care that Chuck is a players coach & everybody likes him. Are we getting closer to winning a championship or further away? Keep asking yourself that. After about 4 yrs with no bling, players start to tune out your message anyway because the veterans have memorized all the lines anyway. I'm ready for a new voice. Chuck's had more then enough time to establish his tone, his record, his direction. It's like any profession--A lawyer in a firm, a professor trying to earn university tenure, a military flight instructor training new pilots. We all get evaluated in phases & Pagano is not immune from this right of passage. 

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8 hours ago, southwest1 said:

. You have a private meeting 1 on 1 with your GM & express your concerns that Richardson isn't pulling his weight in your estimation & you strongly suggest altering INDY's RB rotation. If that doesn't work, you go straight to Jimmy & say "Look, I've discussed this with Ryan & we fail to see eye to eye here on our ground game lineup. I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here. I just wanna win games for this franchise & let's shake things up a bit to see if we can ignite a spark on offense. I don't believe I'm in the wrong here. What do you think Mr. Irsay?" 

 

All evidence suggests that's exactly what happened.  That's why chuck is still here and grigson is not.

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15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are all sorts of things I'd like to say in response,   but I'll be diplomatic....

 

But I will say this.....

 

Any player who is already lost to Chuck Pagano because Pagano is now being a hard butt,  does NOT belong on an NFL roster.       PERIOD!!

 

If a player is already so upset with the HC because Pagano is being hard on them NOW,  that he's not responding well,    he's not worthy of being on the team.

 

There are no hard facts to support the concept of Pagano losing the team.    But you don't like Pags so you choose to believe the rumor.     It fits your views on Pags.      That's on you.

 

But a player --- ANY PLAYER --- who has already checked out at this point of the pres-season is simply pitiful......

 

 

Agree with this 100%, however I will say this, when a coach coaches for a certain way for 5 years straight, then has a complete change of personality when it's obvious his job is on the line, the players can pick up on that, even the rookies. It's a lot harder to take him seriously now if you're a player because you know what's going on with Pagano, and they won't react to him the way he likes. 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the players checking out, I think they may believe he is putting on an act, and they won't respect him for that. This is my opinion though. It's possible that Grigson didn't allow Pagano to discipline certain players, but we don't know that for sure, and it's just speculation for us right now.

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